As you can immediately see, there is a LOT going on in this list.
I have seen similar lists pop up recently, however they generally lean too far one way or the other. Sometimes its all saheeli combo and marvel with puzzleknots for energy with no big hits. Other times its 4 ulamogs, a bunch of worldbreakers/other big threats and the saheeli combo thrown in. My problem with these lists is the completely polarizing draws. Sometimes the all-in saheeli list will draw nothing but energy generators and puzzleknots and just flounder around doing nothing, sometimes the marvel-centric list will draw a bunch of big threats it cant cast and just do nothing. I wanted to find a medium between the two that could also just have the backup-backup-backup-backup plan of just beating your opponent to death with small creatures.
There are four main combo's built into the deck. There is the obvious main combo of Saheeli-Felidar. There is the combo of Marvel-Ulamog/Big threat. We have the Whirler Virtuoso/Panharmonicon/Gonti's Aether Heart infinite thopters and extra turn to kill you combo and we also have the accidental Panharmonicon/2x Felidar + permanents combo. This last one functions by infinitely flickering each felidar and one other permanent, whether that be lands for mana to cast your spells or an oath of nissa/refiner to dig your deck etc.
As mentioned above, there is the plan of just playing a midrange game and beating your opponent down. Marvel actually does a fantastic job of accommodating this alongside Panharmonicon, letting us drown our opponent in value or find our combo pieces.
Now, I really suck at writing primers so I wont waffle on and embarrass myself further but if you have any questions regarding a specific card/card choice (Or why X instead of Y) let me know and I will get back to you as soon as I can.
A) Ignore the SB, threw it together randomly to test while on cockatrice.
I originally had Zurgo in over Berserker but I just kept feeling that he was basically worthless in every game I played him. I also originally had 4x Garrison 2x Occultist but I am testing the other way as madnessing the occultist out is not difficult in this deck.
It's still in early testing but its promising so far.
I am a huge fan of Ancestral Visions in this deck as I can discard it to Nahiri or Thirst for Knowledge if I draw it later in the game. Im testing Thirst for Knowledge over Serum Visions because of the synergy with visions, foundry, sword and emrakul discards.
I decided on Thopter Sword as the additional win condition for my deck because it bypasses the normal hate that would be brought in for the emrakul win (Grafdiggers cage) while still being fetchable with Nahiri ultimate.
Other than that it is fairly straight forward removal and counterspells. I prefer Logic Knot over remand personally with the discarding from nahiri/TFK and the fetchlands but remand may be correct for the extra draw. Academy Ruins is in there for the recursion of our artifact pieces in the main and Engineered Explosives in the side.
As I mentioned in my previous post, I am trying a tiny splash of black in the form of a Watery Grave for the sideboard Hide // Seek. I really like this card as removal for enchantments and artifacts or just a way to remove combo pieces like Ad Nauseums Lightning Storm/Conflagrate and Emrakul etc.
Other SB cards of note is the Wheel of Sun and Moon which is in there because I have seen an uptick of graveyard strategies recently and it really helps in those matchups as well as being a fair answer to other thopter/sword decks. Runed Halo is a card that can just answer any problem card. As before it can name Lightning Storm/Conflagrate as well as Grapeshot, Lightning Bolt, Reality Smasher, Inkmoth Nexus etc, whatever is needed at the time. I am playing three Kor Firewalker for the burn/red aggro matchup because I am running zero maindeck Lightning Helix. This may not be enough for that matchup but I have not had enough time to test to confirm that.
I'd love any thoughts on the deck/idea to combine sword with nahiri emrakul.
I am fairly new to the jeskai control style of play, previously I was on the Esper Draw-Go deck.
I love the idea of Nahiri + Emrakul and being myself (I love brewing/tweaking) I thought I would test a Thopter Sword Nahiri emrakul list. Nahiri can tutor for either emrakul or the missing piece for thopter sword.
It's in early concept/proof of concept stage but it looks promising so far. I am at work on lunch at the moment so I will just post a link to my deckstats page for the deck and edit this post later with the list on here.
I also decided to test a singleton Watery Grave for the SB Hide // Seek. I love this card and what it can do for various matchups. I have taken all the wincons of ad nauseum away and stripped every living end out of a players deck. It can also just screw other jeskai nahiri decks over by taking emrakul and gaining 15! life, putting the game basically totally out of reach. I've got for Ancestral Vision because I think this list needs the raw card advantage over the card selection.
Let me know what you think or any questions regarding card choices.
Im not sure how people are making BG lists and not including Vessel of Nascency. Enables 2/4 of delirium by default and has a large chance to just instantly delirium. Especially if you are Mindwracking. Also digs deeper than oath for lands and only misses your instants/sorceries. Card is pure value.
Of note on Sinister Concotion - If you mill a land and discard a land do you draw 2 from Gitrog or 1?
Most of my matches have been RG Ramp, BW midrange, BW Control, BWC Eldrazi Midrange (BW is really popular on cockatrice! Also very good), RB Vampires, Mono red aggro (Devils and just good stuff), had a Jund Dragons opponent. Theres been a lot of UW, UB or esper control ive played against too, version with/without TITI and dragons or a variant similar to my own. I also played against a pretty brutal naya token/walkers deck as well as some BG midrange/recursion and some zombies.
A lot of variety there and good results so far. Ill be tracking games starting tonight now that im relatively happy with the mainboard.
Below is the list I have been testing for the last few days. So far I am quite impressed with the new cards, particularly Epiphany at the Drownyard and Descend Upon the Sinful. The list definitely needs some more tweaking and I need to play more games versus aggro but its starting to shape up.
Ive gone for Sorin as a two of win-con/card advantage engine. Other ways to win the game is use Westvale Abbey a bunch, Descend Upon the Sinful making angels (Won more games with this than anything else), Jace Emblem (Theoretically, not had the chance yet) and Shambling Vents. Manabase gives a 17U/15W/14B split. If I removed Westvale I would add a UW land to go 18U/16W/14B.
Mostly looking for thoughts on card choices and sideboard. A note on the sideboard - Leyline of Sanctity is a carry-over from my local meta where, for a while, there was nothing but burn and 8-rack.
The two cards I am trying out mainboard are Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Smother.
Jace is replacing Think Twice because think twice just feels bad almost every time I was casting it. I either always wanted to use a removal and it rotted in hand or it was just so low impact it didnt feel worth it to cast.
Jace does some interesting things for us. For example, a game I had against burn yesterday went T1 Fetch, T2 Land and Jace, T3 Fetch and Timely with Jace draw, T4 Jace draw, flashback timely, land and dispel. I understand thats kind of the nuts but also just plussing on a creature in the aggro matchups can be enough time to get you there. He also provides additional board wipes against discard and if you -3 on a discarded/countered white suns, the zenith shuffles back in instead of exiling.
Smother... not sure if this is the correct spell. I wanted another removal spell to use early and this was the first that popped into mind. Might be better as doomblade or similar but im not entirely sure. Would particularly like your thoughts on alternatives. Local meta is affinity, goblins, burn, infect, tron, eldrazi, one other UB control, kiki chord and miscellaneous.
Any idea on how long the event might take? I am interested but it starts at 3am my time so it would be tough to time correctly for myself. Alternatively if you get the 16 you need I would be happy to judge/cohost if needed.
I think a 3/3 split on hedron archive is better, being able to hold up that 2 mana for your 4 Warping wail can help quite a bit.
I will enable you to ramp AND counter Obliteration/discard spells or ramp against the mirror.
I hadn't considered that. Definitely something I will try out now because that makes a lot of sense, lets us easily go from 4 to 8 with warping wail or if on the play we can counter an infinite obliteration. It does make shrine worse so I could see -1 shrine +1 forest to have more green sources.
I made a couple changes after reading the replies and some more posts since yesterday. I had not considered Oath of Nissa but after looking at it and trying it out, it feels great in the deck. Finding a wastes on T1 for T2 ruin or just finding bombs late is fantastic.
I still dont agree with the 3 mana ramp as it is just so lethargic to the plan and as such I increased the Warping Wail count to 4 for more ramp early or more disruption.
Trying out 2 Chandra in the side, havent had a chance to board them in yet though. Definitely feels like she would be good though.
4 Aether Hub
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Forest
1 Game Trail
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Spirebluff Canal
//Artifacts
4 Aetherworks Marvel
1 Gonti's Aether Heart
1 Panharmonicon
4 Oath of Nissa
//Instants
4 Harnessed Lightning
//Sorceries
4 Attune with Aether
//Planeswalkers
4 Saheeli Rai
//Creatures
4 Felidar Guardian
4 Rogue Refiner
4 Servant of the Conduit
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Whirler Virtuoso
1 World Breaker
3 Dispel
2 Natural State
2 Negate
1 Panharmonicon
2 Radiant Flames
3 Shock
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 World Breaker
As you can immediately see, there is a LOT going on in this list.
I have seen similar lists pop up recently, however they generally lean too far one way or the other. Sometimes its all saheeli combo and marvel with puzzleknots for energy with no big hits. Other times its 4 ulamogs, a bunch of worldbreakers/other big threats and the saheeli combo thrown in. My problem with these lists is the completely polarizing draws. Sometimes the all-in saheeli list will draw nothing but energy generators and puzzleknots and just flounder around doing nothing, sometimes the marvel-centric list will draw a bunch of big threats it cant cast and just do nothing. I wanted to find a medium between the two that could also just have the backup-backup-backup-backup plan of just beating your opponent to death with small creatures.
There are four main combo's built into the deck. There is the obvious main combo of Saheeli-Felidar. There is the combo of Marvel-Ulamog/Big threat. We have the Whirler Virtuoso/Panharmonicon/Gonti's Aether Heart infinite thopters and extra turn to kill you combo and we also have the accidental Panharmonicon/2x Felidar + permanents combo. This last one functions by infinitely flickering each felidar and one other permanent, whether that be lands for mana to cast your spells or an oath of nissa/refiner to dig your deck etc.
As mentioned above, there is the plan of just playing a midrange game and beating your opponent down. Marvel actually does a fantastic job of accommodating this alongside Panharmonicon, letting us drown our opponent in value or find our combo pieces.
Now, I really suck at writing primers so I wont waffle on and embarrass myself further but if you have any questions regarding a specific card/card choice (Or why X instead of Y) let me know and I will get back to you as soon as I can.
Mostly it's a thought experiment at the moment but I have been pleasantly surprised with the constrictor so far.
4 Cinder Glade
5 Forest
4 Game Trail
2 Hanweir Battlements
8 Mountain
//Spells - Instant
4 Atarka's Command
4 Fiery Temper
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Exquisite Firecraft
//Creatures
3 Lightning Berserker
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lupine Prototype
4 Noose Constrictor
4 Stromkirk Occultist
2 Hanweir Garrison
4 Rending Volley
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Thunderbreak Regent
3 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Fiery Impulse
A) Ignore the SB, threw it together randomly to test while on cockatrice.
I originally had Zurgo in over Berserker but I just kept feeling that he was basically worthless in every game I played him. I also originally had 4x Garrison 2x Occultist but I am testing the other way as madnessing the occultist out is not difficult in this deck.
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
//Planeswalkers
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
//Card Draw
4 Ancestral Vision
2 Thirst for Knowledge
//Removal
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Supreme Verdict
//Counters
3 Cryptic Command
3 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
2 Logic Knot
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Mountain
3 Island
1 Plains
3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Watery Grave
1 Academy Ruins
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Negate
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Crumble to Dust
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Runed Halo
2 Hide // Seek
1 Engineered Explosives
This is the list that I had above.
It's still in early testing but its promising so far.
I am a huge fan of Ancestral Visions in this deck as I can discard it to Nahiri or Thirst for Knowledge if I draw it later in the game. Im testing Thirst for Knowledge over Serum Visions because of the synergy with visions, foundry, sword and emrakul discards.
I decided on Thopter Sword as the additional win condition for my deck because it bypasses the normal hate that would be brought in for the emrakul win (Grafdiggers cage) while still being fetchable with Nahiri ultimate.
Other than that it is fairly straight forward removal and counterspells. I prefer Logic Knot over remand personally with the discarding from nahiri/TFK and the fetchlands but remand may be correct for the extra draw. Academy Ruins is in there for the recursion of our artifact pieces in the main and Engineered Explosives in the side.
As I mentioned in my previous post, I am trying a tiny splash of black in the form of a Watery Grave for the sideboard Hide // Seek. I really like this card as removal for enchantments and artifacts or just a way to remove combo pieces like Ad Nauseums Lightning Storm/Conflagrate and Emrakul etc.
Other SB cards of note is the Wheel of Sun and Moon which is in there because I have seen an uptick of graveyard strategies recently and it really helps in those matchups as well as being a fair answer to other thopter/sword decks. Runed Halo is a card that can just answer any problem card. As before it can name Lightning Storm/Conflagrate as well as Grapeshot, Lightning Bolt, Reality Smasher, Inkmoth Nexus etc, whatever is needed at the time. I am playing three Kor Firewalker for the burn/red aggro matchup because I am running zero maindeck Lightning Helix. This may not be enough for that matchup but I have not had enough time to test to confirm that.
I'd love any thoughts on the deck/idea to combine sword with nahiri emrakul.
I am fairly new to the jeskai control style of play, previously I was on the Esper Draw-Go deck.
I love the idea of Nahiri + Emrakul and being myself (I love brewing/tweaking) I thought I would test a Thopter Sword Nahiri emrakul list. Nahiri can tutor for either emrakul or the missing piece for thopter sword.
It's in early concept/proof of concept stage but it looks promising so far. I am at work on lunch at the moment so I will just post a link to my deckstats page for the deck and edit this post later with the list on here.
http://deckstats.net/decks/13832/496340-jeskai-nahiri-foundry
I also decided to test a singleton Watery Grave for the SB Hide // Seek. I love this card and what it can do for various matchups. I have taken all the wincons of ad nauseum away and stripped every living end out of a players deck. It can also just screw other jeskai nahiri decks over by taking emrakul and gaining 15! life, putting the game basically totally out of reach. I've got for Ancestral Vision because I think this list needs the raw card advantage over the card selection.
Let me know what you think or any questions regarding card choices.
Of note on Sinister Concotion - If you mill a land and discard a land do you draw 2 from Gitrog or 1?
A lot of variety there and good results so far. Ill be tracking games starting tonight now that im relatively happy with the mainboard.
Also my sideboard is awful. Ill admit it. Haven't put any thought into it at all at this point, just chucked in generic stuff.
Ive gone for Sorin as a two of win-con/card advantage engine. Other ways to win the game is use Westvale Abbey a bunch, Descend Upon the Sinful making angels (Won more games with this than anything else), Jace Emblem (Theoretically, not had the chance yet) and Shambling Vents. Manabase gives a 17U/15W/14B split. If I removed Westvale I would add a UW land to go 18U/16W/14B.
Thoughts? Changes you would make?
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Card Draw
3 Epiphany at the Drownyard
3 Anticipate
2 Painful Truths
Counters
4 Void Shatter
3 Clash of Wills
Removal
3 Declaration in Stone
2 To the Slaughter
2 Descend Upon the Sinful
1 Planar Outburst
2 Ultimate Price
2 Anguished Unmaking
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Lands (27)
4 Port Town
4 Choked Estuary
3 Prairie Stream
3 Sunken Hollow
4 Shambling Vent
2 Caves of Koilos
1 Westvale Abbey
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Negate
2 Transgress the Mind
2 Infinite Obliteration
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Duress
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Welcome to the Fold
I've been playing a version of esper draw-go for a while and with the Eldrazi deck showing up I have moved to a more traditional list as below.
Unfortunately the only results I have had with the deck have been on cockatrice as there arent many modern events at my LGS.
The list is as follows
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Snapcaster Mage
//Card Draw/Utility
4 Esper Charm
1 Sphinx's Revelation
//Counterspells
2 Spell Snare
3 Logic Knot
4 Cryptic Command
//Wincons
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 White Sun's Zenith
//Removal
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
3 Smother
2 Condemn
4 Path to Exile
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Nimbus Maze
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Shadow of Doubt
3 Timely Reinforcements
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Dispel
1 Grave Titan
1 Wrath of God
Mostly looking for thoughts on card choices and sideboard. A note on the sideboard - Leyline of Sanctity is a carry-over from my local meta where, for a while, there was nothing but burn and 8-rack.
The two cards I am trying out mainboard are Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Smother.
Jace is replacing Think Twice because think twice just feels bad almost every time I was casting it. I either always wanted to use a removal and it rotted in hand or it was just so low impact it didnt feel worth it to cast.
Jace does some interesting things for us. For example, a game I had against burn yesterday went T1 Fetch, T2 Land and Jace, T3 Fetch and Timely with Jace draw, T4 Jace draw, flashback timely, land and dispel. I understand thats kind of the nuts but also just plussing on a creature in the aggro matchups can be enough time to get you there. He also provides additional board wipes against discard and if you -3 on a discarded/countered white suns, the zenith shuffles back in instead of exiling.
Smother... not sure if this is the correct spell. I wanted another removal spell to use early and this was the first that popped into mind. Might be better as doomblade or similar but im not entirely sure. Would particularly like your thoughts on alternatives. Local meta is affinity, goblins, burn, infect, tron, eldrazi, one other UB control, kiki chord and miscellaneous.
Any idea on how long the event might take? I am interested but it starts at 3am my time so it would be tough to time correctly for myself. Alternatively if you get the 16 you need I would be happy to judge/cohost if needed.
I hadn't considered that. Definitely something I will try out now because that makes a lot of sense, lets us easily go from 4 to 8 with warping wail or if on the play we can counter an infinite obliteration. It does make shrine worse so I could see -1 shrine +1 forest to have more green sources.
4 Evolving Wilds
9 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
5 Wastes
Ramp Spells
4 Explosive Vegetation
2 Hedron Archive
4 Ruin in Their Wake
4 Warping Wail
3 Oath of Nissa
Finishers
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 World Breaker
Midgame
2 Oblivion Sower
2 Sylvan Advocate
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Kozilek's Return
4 Jaddi Offshoot
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Roast
3 Spatial Contortion
I made a couple changes after reading the replies and some more posts since yesterday. I had not considered Oath of Nissa but after looking at it and trying it out, it feels great in the deck. Finding a wastes on T1 for T2 ruin or just finding bombs late is fantastic.
I still dont agree with the 3 mana ramp as it is just so lethargic to the plan and as such I increased the Warping Wail count to 4 for more ramp early or more disruption.
Trying out 2 Chandra in the side, havent had a chance to board them in yet though. Definitely feels like she would be good though.
Thoughts on the updated list?