This is just the list I have been messing with, I have stormbreaths if anyone is wondering why they are absent, I am just testing surrak atm, if anything I might go 3x Dragons and relegate the maulers to the sideboard and put 2 surraks in. But I just took a really agressive approach with this deck, playing some of the better cheap beaters in the format.
That's the list I have been messing around with; Its a hodge-podge of stuff with not many four drops but I like the diversity it comes from especially in the 3-drop slot. It can be kinda cute at times tho, so aggro might run through it without Caryatid.
I have not looked through the whole thread for the answer to this question, so I am sorry. By why has Peer Through Depths been completely cut from all lists? I love the card and although I know there are 4-6 cards that are flex-spots so you should play what you prefer, I have not seen it in a list at all in a while. Most people play Ravings or Lootings because they believe it fuels ascension, and its useful when going off; but what happens if you don't get there because you can only dig two cards? or you dig two and ship one randomly and its what you needed? I have played many a game where I have everything needed to go off but maybe like one more ritual or manamorphose, and peering five cards deep instead of two or three has got me there more then I could ever explain, especially with an active ascension (thus digging 10)... Iunno, I'm not a masterful player by any means, but I do consider myself a very above average understander of percentages and numbers, and 10 cards when going off, seems better to me then 4 when going off; and 5 when trying to get there, is a lot better then two. Open to any answer and do not mind people challenging my ideals lol
I would look to include/test the recently spoiled Acolyte's Reward in some number here. It's quite useless vs. Control strategies but in creature mirrors, especially versus one where your opponent doesn't want to interact too much I'm betting it could be the absolute nuts. I mentioned this in another thread but a simple curve of SoTP > Precinct Captain > Brimaz (King) turns it into a two mana Lava Axe. I think the reach could help and battle tricks are always good. It would also add extra utility to Vanguard of Brimaz as it turns on Heroic.
Also, it's absolutely understandable to want to run Vanguard solely for the WW cost. Strategies such as these are clearly the sum of their parts. Of course, you'd like to get a little bit more utility out of it (BTE fixes, turns on nut draws, Frostburn is good on the defensive/offensive and etc.) but it's 100% worth testing.
EDIT: Also, I dislike Glimpse, Dryad Militant, a full set of Heliod (3 max) and Nykthos absolutely needs to be maxed out.
We can put the Acolyte's Reward in for Glimpse, and change the Militant for... hell Judge's Familiar itself. Now my question with Reward ever since it was spoiled is that, say your devotion is 7, but your creature is getting bolted for 3... do you deal 7 damage on the crack back, or just 3?
I'm sorry I was confused as to what we were discussing. I thought the intent was for constructive feedback to help better the deck not just playing "stuff that means something" to you.
If things meant anything to me then I would stick to the same deck I have been playing for 3 months lol... I hear your feedback and your mistaking me not adhering to your word as me not taking your criticism. While all those creatures provide upside in some way(except the Elite) in comparison to the Vanguard, we have to look at how big a factor Devotion is. It is the same argument that happens in MUD with Frostburn and Omenspeaker, some people just like one over the other. If we play Imposing Sovereign then we should probably remove Glimpse the Sun God out of the deck and find something else to plug in. We can have Spirit of the Labyrinth in as well, with the Sovereign in the sideboard; imo these cards are interchangeable MD and SB based on your meta.
I made the deck like this, so people have a clue what I am doing.
Soldier of the Pantheon-Cloudfin Raptor
Dryad Militant-Judge's Familiar
Precinct Captain-Tidebinder Mage
Vanguard of Brimaz-Frostburn Weird
Boros Reckoner-Nightveil Specter
Brimaz, King of Oreskos-Master of Waves
Heliod, God of the Sun- Thassa, God of the Sea
Spear of Heliod-Bident of Thassa
Elspeth, Sun's Champion-Jace, Architect of Thought
Brave the Elements-Rapid Hybridization
Glimpse the Sun God-Cyclonic Rift
Those all slot into the White Weenie archtype, which this is not. The Vanguard provides WW, which is needed to turn our friend Heliod into a beater/blocker. The sovereign is the only one that means anything to me, and is something that I have thought about as my other deck is the White Weenie deck splashing red.
Also, like you said, its played because you want to make Thassa amazing, I just want to make Heliod decent lol.
So I have been a player of MUD since the PT:Theros band-wagon, but I have always wanted MWD to be a thing since I am aligned to white at heart... So with the recent spoilers coming out I have decided to look back at the deck and I realized that it is incredibly similar to the MUD lists we see floating around. I'm sure the deck isn't as good as I think it is, but honestly I just want people to poke holes in it with the mindset that it is supposed to work somewhat like MUD.
That is the idea, and I am fairly certain of every card except maybe the Instant/Sorceries and the Vanguard of Brimaz which is only in the deck for the devotion.
I played mono-green stompy in INN-RTR standard for funsies every once and a while but dropped the deck when strangleroot and predator ooze rotated (also titanic growth), but this kinda replaces titanic growth in a way. People are saying this is better then Giant Growth, honestly, you should run it with GG not instead of it. Here is a list I literally just hammered together in my head right now. It goes off the same theme as the White Weenie decks that splash a color.
This is the definition of all in... it folds pretty quickly but that is kinda the essence of decks like this. Win or lose in about 4-5 turns lol. It could probably be better but this is just a rough outline of an otherwise unknown concept.
So after reading the comments and noticing some of the things wrong with the list, I pose another question. With the relative power level of the creatures we are getting being higher then the ones we previously have and their seemingly nonbo with Xathrid Necromancer... would it be safe to say that this deck would be better with just the red splash?
With the blue splash, I think a choice of cards is playing 22 lands and 2 Rifts. or playing 21 lands with 3 Boros Elite... that is just what I had in my head. This list has a lot in common with the Esper Humans deck sans Necromancer, but we have seen in that deck that the Skynight can be a house... Daxos in my opinion deserves a mention just because of its huge textbox, and he can be an underrated card in a meta full of fatties like G/R Monsters and the new Boros Midrange deck that just won this weekend. This Deck also gets value out of Ephara if we ever want some late game ability, with her interaction with Brimaz; Ephara states when a creature comes into play, not played or casted, and Brimaz's token will cause that to happen. So theoretically, you take a draw step, play Brimaz, draw on next upkeep, say your opponent attacks you block and make a token, during your upkeep draw off Ephara and then regular draw. (granted you need to remove the Spirit of the Labyrinth to do this, but the two drop slot is full of good stuff in these colors)
and then the next question this deck has to ask is with the new Red/Black cards coming out, is there any reason to play this over a deck that runs things like Spike Jester , Pain Seer , Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch , and the new god Mogis, God of Slaughter .
So with all the incredible cards being spoiled for the white weenie archetype so far, one is basically forced to consider how their decks will be warped. And so far Orzhov Aggro seems to be the one changing the most and I have so many ideas and questions swirling I felt like I should put the ideas out there and see what some of us can hammer out as what might be a good fit heading into an seemingly unknown meta come BNG (granted I know many cards are yet to be spoiled, but so far we have enough to look at our decks and make upgrades).
So I'll just list the mainly played creatures now including some of the spoiled ones.
I'm pretty sure this is everything that fits into these colors and out of that I have tried hammering a list together and the best I have come up with is this:
The biggest problems I am having is do I need to play 12 one drops, and give up on a two drop like daring skyjek or imposing sovereign... or only play 8, and gain the skyjek or sovereign. The other being is the Sovereign more maindeckable then the new Spirit of the Labyrinth... All discussion is welcome and I wrote this at like 2 in the morning so I apologize if it is bad, but this stuff is really just swirling around in my head!
My question is, does its affect negate Pain Seer? I currently play the Orzhov Aggro version of white weenie, and the wording on this says draw a card, while the wording on pain seer just says reveal then add. In the rules, are these two separate entities?
Yes, you should play it. If you are trying to get into an MMORPG again, the only game you will find worth it is WoW. Yes WoW has its downs, but why do people always come back to it? Because anything else on the market is literally 5 steps or more down from what it is. The entitled whiners I see talk about how bad WoW is astounds me, "oh no other people get purples"... who cares if someone else gets enjoyment from a game they pay for also? I can promise you no one in here has ever cleared heroic-25 man content in the first month it was released... The game is fun, each expansion has its merits, and the people who constantly try to bash the game with their ludicrous reasons is hilarious. TBC was fun, also nostalgic, it was many of ours first expansion for any game... Wrath(this expansion is so funny, and I can tell who wasn't around for that expansion because the amount of crying of "OMG WOTLK SUCKS SO BAD" at the time of its life was eye-gouging... and now all you hear is how amazing it was)... Cata ok, this one sucked. And Mists is hands down their best expansion, nothing about the expansion was welfare other then the new Timeless Isle(you run around and open chests with a chance at an epic), but who honestly wants to level an alt through 90 levels to only trug through 4 patches of content before they can actually play the game? Mists added so much to the game in comparison to everything else you are sorely missing out not playing it. Besides, if you don't end up liking it, just unsub..? It really is only 15$.
The only places that I know that play magic anywhere in the western part of NC is down in the foothills, like Forest City(I'm guessing if you are in henderson, you have heard of Rutherford county)... um McDowell recently had their store closed... the shop in Rutherford county is probably the most competitive scene you will find this side of the mountains. Fletcher also plays so that might be closer to you definitely; I believe the store is called the Deckbox, maybe try there someday.
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Yavimaya Coast
2x Shivan Reef
4x Fontier Bivouac
4x Forest
3x Mountain
1x Island
1x Mana Confluence
4x Elvish Mystic
3x Kiora's follower
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Savage Knuckleblade
3x Boon Satyr
3x Chasm Skulker
4x Polis Crusher
3x Surrak Dragonclaw
2x Sagu Mauler
4x Stoke the Flames
3x Crater's Claw
This is just the list I have been messing with, I have stormbreaths if anyone is wondering why they are absent, I am just testing surrak atm, if anything I might go 3x Dragons and relegate the maulers to the sideboard and put 2 surraks in. But I just took a really agressive approach with this deck, playing some of the better cheap beaters in the format.
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Yavimaya Coast
2x Shivan Reef
4x Fronteir Bivoauc
1x Mana Confluence
5x Forest
3x Mountain
1x Island
Creatures: 29
4x Elvish Mystic
3x Rattleclaw Shaman
3x Chasm Skulker
3x Boon Satyr
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Savage Knuckleblade
3x Ash Cloud Phoenix/ Polukranos
3x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Surrak Dragonclaw
Spells: 8
4x Crater’s Claws
3x Stubborn Denial
1x Temur Ascendency
That's the list I have been messing around with; Its a hodge-podge of stuff with not many four drops but I like the diversity it comes from especially in the 3-drop slot. It can be kinda cute at times tho, so aggro might run through it without Caryatid.
We can put the Acolyte's Reward in for Glimpse, and change the Militant for... hell Judge's Familiar itself. Now my question with Reward ever since it was spoiled is that, say your devotion is 7, but your creature is getting bolted for 3... do you deal 7 damage on the crack back, or just 3?
20x Plains
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Creatures:26
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Precinct Captain
4 Vanguard of Brimaz
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Heliod, God of the Sun
4 Acolyte's Reward
2 Brave the Elements
Artifact/Enchantment:2
2 Spear of Heliod
Planeswalker: 2
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
If things meant anything to me then I would stick to the same deck I have been playing for 3 months lol... I hear your feedback and your mistaking me not adhering to your word as me not taking your criticism. While all those creatures provide upside in some way(except the Elite) in comparison to the Vanguard, we have to look at how big a factor Devotion is. It is the same argument that happens in MUD with Frostburn and Omenspeaker, some people just like one over the other. If we play Imposing Sovereign then we should probably remove Glimpse the Sun God out of the deck and find something else to plug in. We can have Spirit of the Labyrinth in as well, with the Sovereign in the sideboard; imo these cards are interchangeable MD and SB based on your meta.
Soldier of the Pantheon-Cloudfin Raptor
Dryad Militant-Judge's Familiar
Precinct Captain-Tidebinder Mage
Vanguard of Brimaz-Frostburn Weird
Boros Reckoner-Nightveil Specter
Brimaz, King of Oreskos-Master of Waves
Heliod, God of the Sun- Thassa, God of the Sea
Spear of Heliod-Bident of Thassa
Elspeth, Sun's Champion-Jace, Architect of Thought
Brave the Elements-Rapid Hybridization
Glimpse the Sun God-Cyclonic Rift
so yeh, that is where I lined it up lol.
Also, like you said, its played because you want to make Thassa amazing, I just want to make Heliod decent lol.
Si... lol, thought that part was obvious O.o... like why do you play Frostburn Weird, mainly the two devotion and its got a fat-butt.
21x Plains
3x Mutavault
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Creatures: 27
4x Heliod, God of the Sun
3x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Precinct Captain
4x Vanguard of Brimaz
4x Dryad Militant
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
2x Glimpse the Sun God
2x Brave the Elements
Artifacts/Enchantments: 2
2x Spear of Heliod
Planeswalker: 2
2x Elspeth, Sun’s Champion
That is the idea, and I am fairly certain of every card except maybe the Instant/Sorceries and the Vanguard of Brimaz which is only in the deck for the devotion.
With that being said, please poke away.
4 Temple Garden/ Breeding Pool
4 Temple of Plenty/ Temple of Mystery
7 Forest
3 Mutavault
Creatures:30
4 Dryad Militant
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Spire Tracer
4 Kalonian Tusker
4 Burning-Tree Emmisary
3 Skylasher
3 Witchstalker / Boon Satyr (iunno)
4 Mistcutter Hydra
4 Giant Growth
4 Aspect of Hydra
4 Selesnya Charm(exile spell and pumper) / Simic Charm(hex-proof and pumper)
This is the definition of all in... it folds pretty quickly but that is kinda the essence of decks like this. Win or lose in about 4-5 turns lol. It could probably be better but this is just a rough outline of an otherwise unknown concept.
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
10 Plains
3 Mutavault
Creatures:30
4 Dryad Militant
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Boros Elite
4 Precinct Captain
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Daring Skyjek
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Frontline Medic/Banisher Priest
4 Brave the Elements
3 Boros Charm
Enchantment/Artifact:2
2 Spear of Heliod
or a blue splash, which is where my mind first went too
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple of Enlightenment
3 Mutavault
11 Plains
Creatures:30
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Dryad Militant
4 Precinct Captain
4 Daring Skyjek
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Lyev Skynight
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Daxos of Meletis/Banisher Priest/Frontline Medic
4 Brave the Elements
2 Cyclonic Rift
Artifacts/Enchantment:2
2 Spear of Heliod
With the blue splash, I think a choice of cards is playing 22 lands and 2 Rifts. or playing 21 lands with 3 Boros Elite... that is just what I had in my head. This list has a lot in common with the Esper Humans deck sans Necromancer, but we have seen in that deck that the Skynight can be a house... Daxos in my opinion deserves a mention just because of its huge textbox, and he can be an underrated card in a meta full of fatties like G/R Monsters and the new Boros Midrange deck that just won this weekend. This Deck also gets value out of Ephara if we ever want some late game ability, with her interaction with Brimaz; Ephara states when a creature comes into play, not played or casted, and Brimaz's token will cause that to happen. So theoretically, you take a draw step, play Brimaz, draw on next upkeep, say your opponent attacks you block and make a token, during your upkeep draw off Ephara and then regular draw. (granted you need to remove the Spirit of the Labyrinth to do this, but the two drop slot is full of good stuff in these colors)
and then the next question this deck has to ask is with the new Red/Black cards coming out, is there any reason to play this over a deck that runs things like Spike Jester , Pain Seer , Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch , and the new god Mogis, God of Slaughter .
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
7 Swamp
7 Mountain
Creatures:32
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Spike Jester
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Pain Seer
3 Mogis' Marauder
4 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2 Mogis, God of Slaughter
4 Lightning Strike
2 Dreadbore/Doom Blade/Magma Jet
So I'll just list the mainly played creatures now including some of the spoiled ones.
1CMC:
Soldier of the Pantheon
Dryad Militant
Boros Elite
Judge's Familiar
Brave the Elements
2CMC: This is where it gets kind of weird and tricky
Precinct Captain
Daring Skyjek
Imposing Sovereign
Pain Seer
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Orzhov Charm
3CMC
Xathrid Necromancer
Banisher Priest
Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Fiendslayer Paladin
Spear of Heliod
Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Land Base
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
8x Plains
2x Swamp
3x Mutavault
I'm pretty sure this is everything that fits into these colors and out of that I have tried hammering a list together and the best I have come up with is this:
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
8 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Mutavault
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Dryad Militant
4 Daring Skyjek
4 Pain Seer
4 Precinct Captain
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Brave the Elements
3 Orzhov Charm
Enchantment/Artifact:2
2 Spear of Heliod
The biggest problems I am having is do I need to play 12 one drops, and give up on a two drop like daring skyjek or imposing sovereign... or only play 8, and gain the skyjek or sovereign. The other being is the Sovereign more maindeckable then the new Spirit of the Labyrinth... All discussion is welcome and I wrote this at like 2 in the morning so I apologize if it is bad, but this stuff is really just swirling around in my head!