Have any of you considered playing Tireless Tracker instead of 4-CMC stuff or something else?
I tried him in the past, over 1 Huntmaster. My experience is that he is not suitable for the mainboard, in an open meta at least. Not a fast enough clock against some of the big mana/ combo decks. A poor (and overcosted) blocker against aggressive decks. Huntmaster is a bit more well rounded in my opinion. Tracker can definitely take over games but I wouldn't main board it unless you are expecting lots of midrange / control matchups
I've actually been maindecking 3 Gods Willing for the last couple weeks, and when it works, it works amazingly well, they never see it coming, and it's swung more than a few games in my favor.
I just recently switched out the three Gods Willing to the sideboard and put the Boros Charms in the mainboard. I'm not sure which I like more. Gods Willing is usually pretty easy to pull off, just can't hit Stormbreath with it. Boros Charm, the color requirements can be annoying at times (having to hold back two mana of specific colors in order to keep something alive long enough to actually attack, or at least cost them two kill spells may just be a little too slow), however I am liking the flexibility. Giving a Rampager target double strike can be game changing (I actually won a game against Esper when he tapped out and I rampaged/double strike'd an Elvish Mystic), and I've won a few games against Esper/Azorius by sending a Boros Charm (or two) at their face when they tapped out for Sphinx's.
I think I am going to try and fit 3 Witchstalkers into the maindeck. The Hexproof is always useful, and they make pretty damn good Rampager/Unflinching Courage targets against anything running black.
I always liked the Boros Charm/Ghor Clan interaction, in theory, I was just never able to pull it off. But putting Charms in for its indestructibility makes sense, and the other 2 forms are also relevant in many cases. ( I have also won games off of the 4 damage to the face when an Esper has tapped out for Sphinxes).
The vast amount of decks out there just makes my non-creature line-up hard to decide on.
Against (any) devotion based deck I generally want my Mizzium Mortars.
Against B/x midrange I want Boros Charms. If they are running Blood Baron I want Mizzium Mortars. If they are packing Desecration Demon/ Obzedat I want Selesnya Charms. More Planeswalkers generally helps in this matchup as well, even if they are packing Heroes Downfalls. Gods Willing/Rangers guile works wonders here.
Against Mono Black+variants Gods Willing/Rangers Guile, Boros Charm. Mortars and Selesnya are still relevant, especially since an overloaded Mortars can put a field full of rats under control.
Against Esper I want Boros Charms and extra planeswalkers.
Against any aggro deck I want unflinching courage.
I didnt mention Domri since he is relevant in nearly every matchup besides hyper-aggressive decks.
Overall it is just a lot to consider and I suppose it will be based mostly on what I will be expecting at a specific tournament. But it generally seems if I am strengthening myself versus one matchup I am weakening myself versus others.
I think, taking into account the current popular decks I will try to work my spell line up to be something like-
2 Ranger's Guile
2 Selesnya Charm
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Domri Rade
I can see how the scry 1 on God's Willing is very good, but for me, it is very important to be able to save a Stormbreath from a Doom Blade (especially against esper since they have few other answers for him other than Verdict).
Out of the board, I think I will keep the 2 Assemble the Legion I currently am packing. Against mono-black or b/x midrange it seems to me it could possibly be one of the better cards, considering they won't have any ways to deal with it in their maindeck. Is there any other cards I should be considering out of the board if I expect to face quite a bit of b/x decks. (hopefully cards that are still relevant in other matchups).
I tried it, and by and large found it wanting against Esper. They just end up D-Sphere'ing it since they can just Downfall the walkers instead, and I've been running into more Esper lists playing Planar Cleansing or Merciless Eviction as well.
All I gotta say is that I hope to god the next two sets contain some good Naya flavored creatures with pro black. I'm so sick of seeing Doom Blade, Downfall, and Ultimate Price that I've seriously considered running Fiendslayers and Witchstalkers main deck to force them into using Sac spells.
Black has certainly been seeing alot of love.. I am pretty sure any variation of black removal/devotion+ any other color can be competitive.
Certainly makes it hard for us when everyone is jumping on that bandwagon.
I had never actually tried the Pithing Needles they just seemed decent in theory. But at this point I think the B/x decks are probably what we need to worry about. I wonder if it is time to consider maindecking some amount of Gods willing or maybe rangers guile (since it can actually target stormbreath). Or as you mentioned earlier, boros charm is always a solid answer. Perhaps I will move up to 3 or 4 Boros Charms again sideboard, or try to fit 2 mainboard. It is just tough when they generally have a stronger long game and they can drop Merchants to stabilize if we had an aggressive start.
Late update, but this is the list I took to a top 4 finish at the States tournament in my home state, Montana. Around 105 people attended, so a large tournament for our area. Was on 10/12
The list was nearly identical to the list I had taken to a top 4 finish to the Other states tournament a week earlier. -2 Scavenging Ooze +1 Polukranos +1 Ghor-Clan Rampager.
I did not miss Scavenging Ooze and the singleton Polukranos singlehandedly won me at least 1 game.
I dont remember the specifics of every match but here is a run down of what I faced-
Round 1- R/B/W Control/Midrange Lost 1-2
Round 2- R/B Midrange Won 2-0
Round 3- Esper Control Won 2-1
Round 4- (actually i forget what I fought here but I won)
Round 5- MonoBlue Devotion Won 2-1
Round 6- U/W/R Control Won 2-1
Round 7- R/B/W Midrange/Control Won 2-1
First Round of the Top 8:
W/B Like Midrange/Removal (Precinct Captains into Desecration Demons)
Overall I was still very happy with the deck. This was before the mass amounts of Devotion based decks though, which I think Naya is weaker against some (especially the Mono Black Devotion). I think Naya still has a good matchup against Mono Red, Blue, and Green. (havent personally faced any mono whites yet)
My round 1 loss was due to having to mulligan down to 5 both games I lost and land flooding.
In my Top 4 match versus Esper I mulled to 5 trying to get a decent hand first game, and I didnt. Second game I kept a so/so hand but he had all the answers.
I have not seen the amount of Esper decks, in my area, decrease. That fact has led me to consider sideboarding at least 2 Pithing Needles. Though it can be a narrow card it really can shut down Planeswalkers, and a few other key cards in other matchups.
Of the three GW aggro decks I've tested vs all were running main board unflinching courages. Wasn't an issue post board just that game one can get rough if the Dragons don't come. Beyond that I agree with Dmedlin the aggro matchups aren't bad at all.
Mainboard Unflinching Makes me sad, but its still winnable game. Turn 2 Fleece into Turn 3 Unflinching sucks bad though unless you are holding a selesnya
Alrighty. Took my previous list through a few more days of testing and didn't end up as pleased with it as I initially thought. Sat down with a local player that's going to Dublin this weekend and tested the below version of Naya vs basically every major deck in the meta currently. This variant is much more balanced and I feel a hell of a lot better against the field.
My local meta revolves heavily around U/W Control, Esper Control, Red Deck Wins, GW aggro, GR Aggro, Mythic Midrange and Naya aggro (Lots of Tier 1, not to much jank). This is the list I will run at FNM and my upcoming IQ. Small changes might be made but I'm fairly set on this.
Sideboarding Plan :
Overall our game 1 is pretty even with just about everyone in my opinion outside of Selesnya aggro. I've found that matchup pretty rough at the start. Really comes down to if we get a couple Dragons down or not. The general idea is vs any decks that are already faster than us from game 1 we swing heavily toward the life gain game plan. Against control we just load up on aggressively position creatures and increasing their difficulty to die. Mirror match is the typical mirror match dance at times you can get cute and side in the boros charms and end with blow outs via double strike etc. But for the most part I don't change just a ton in that match up.
RDW / RG aggro :-1 Aurelia, the Warleader , -2 Xenagos, The Reveler , -4 Stormbreath Dragon +2 Archangel of Thune , +2 Scavenging Ooze , +3 Unflinching Courage
Put in tons of work on this list through testing checking meta lists etc. Hope this is helpful to y'all. Oh, and thanks for re-establishing my faith in Reckoner and as always I'm open to constructive criticism.
I like the singleton Aurelia, some games she just blows away (Like the Mirror!).
How well were the Xenagos against other aggressive decks G1. Also how well did Xenagos do in the mainboard versus the Black control variants (G/B, B/R/W, B/R, B/W, etc)? Xenagos is a card I have considered mainboarding as well and I am just curious how well it has been doing for you. As of now I have him in the sideboard and he comes in versus control.
The deck runs very well and this is the list ill be playing at my state championship.
Very close to the deck at played at my states last week.
Mine was -1 Mountain +1 Temple of Triumph. sideboard is also very similar.
Anyways, I was very happy with the build overall, other than the fact that Scavenging Ooze did not do well for me throughout the day, but that was mostly due to the fact that 5/8 of the decks I played against were blue based control, where I found him to not be that useful.
I did however, have many times throughout the day where I was wishing I had put in a 4th Ghor-Clan.
Anyways, very strong deck choice and it is cool that we both came up with such similar lists independently and goodluck at your states. I am adjusting my build for (another) states this weekend (ran by a different company). I am not planning to make any major changes, a few sideboard tweaks and for mainboard I might add Boros Charm instead of Selesnya and might sub out 1 or both Scavenging Ooze. 1 For a Ghor-Clan, the other for possibly a Polukranos
Advent is not so good if they're running Legion Loyalist, they *all* just ignore him. Satyr at least can block (and die). In both cases, the ability to get a creature on the board that can't be effected by Shortcutter/Striker is valuable.
Definately something to consider, Far/Away seems to usually be at least 2 of in the 75 of Esper Control. Also, Ratchet Bomb has been seeing alot of SB play, even Mainboard in some U/W builds and in Black based control decks
I would imagine that the first needle will always name Domri. Do you just intend to play around it? Do you intend to side Domri out in the matchups that you know needles are coming?
I just hate sitting with one of my most powerful cards in my hand being a dead card.
Pithing on Domri does suck but I wouldnt board in artifact hate because of it. if I see a Pithing on Domri in G2, and the match went to G3 I would likely side out 1-2 Domri, assuming there are actually other relevant cards in my sideboard to bring in.
So I've been thinking about the deck some more, and I think that the key point that is missing is extra mana acceleration.
This article shows off Sylvan Carytid nicely, which I think is the missing link to let us play our 4-5 drops before the other guy does.
I really feel like there are 2 versions of Naya currently evolving. Both are great, but they are also different. One focuses on ramping into large creatures or monstrosities. The other focuses on early pressure through value creatures (and continuing pressure)
It depends on the matchup as to what the better turn 2 play is. Against any kind of control, the sooner you get Domri online, the sooner you win. Against any kind of creatures, you want that Smiter on board to stand in front of Domri, then follow him up with Domri and fight to clear their board. Either way, if you can have one of the two in play on turn two, you're typically in good shape.
Agreed, really depends on the board state, and what is in your hand, but either on turn 2 is amazing. That play is basically the only reason I am running Mystics still. Stormbreath a turn earlier is also great, but the t2 Smiter/Domri really can break someone.
I did not have any problems as of yet playing Reckoner, occasionally if you know you want to get a really fast start in a game you might have to mulligan for less scry lands thoughs, but i think the benefit of them is worse the risk. I see most people running at least 5, from the lists I have seen so far.
3 Costs in the deck - All can be played turn two an Elf start
Boon Satyr
Loxodon Smiter
Domri
Reckoner can't. I feel like it takes away from the extremely explosive starts we can have. If you drop Satyr for reckoner. You then limit yourself to Smiter or Domri for a turn two power play. But like I said people are very successful with him it seems and maybe I've just had bad luck and should flip in the Reckoner over Satyr. Maybe I need to test more who knows. Definitely open for opinions on it.
Personally it depends on the starting hand, for me. Sometimes you can power out a turn two Domri/Loxodon with a t1 elf. Sometimes you wont have the elf or the loxodon/domri so it is better to play a t1 scry land or pain land tapped.
I like having the option of doing either depending on your hand, who you are facing, etc. Curve out into a t3 reckoner or go for the t2 domri/loxodon/boon(in your case)
The triple Ooze has made the matchup vs most aggro pretty even game 1 and game two bringing in the Unflinches seals the deal vs most R/X . Do you run him over Saytr?
Agreed that Ooze ad unflinching can seal games against other aggro decks. I do however feel that losing the Domri+reckoner interaction is also worth considering. It is a pretty common finisher for me, to get in the last few points of damage
I haven't personally had problems casting Reckoner either, just know that your game against aggro will be weaker without him. If you aren't expecting many other aggro decks, it might be fine to go without him.
Thanks for the feedback. I think I may drop down to 2 Xenagos, definitely going up to 4 mystics. I just miss Avacyn's Pilgrim, and Mystic is no Avacyn's Pilgrim.
Elspeth is cut. I'm still trying to find room for the fourth Stormbreath, and I don't like cutting any more Reckoners. Maybe I'll cut one more Scooze from the main and move it to the side.
I also think I'll drop it down to 6 scrylands now that I'm up to 4 mystics.
From my experience playing Naya so far, post Theros, I am never unhappy to draw a Stormbreath. I would agree with the Scooze cut as well, I am currently trying a maindeck without him. As great as he can be in some matchups, in other matchups he can be a vanilla 2/2. I also find that in some games where there is GY fodder available, I don't have enough green mana to take full advantage of it
What are y'alls thoughts on Boros Reckoner? I feel like he's so awkward in the curve. I've been playing without him the past week and it's been going pretty well but I do at times really miss him. What are y'all doing?
Personally, a large portion of my games versus aggro deck ends with me fighting Reckoner into something else with Domri for the win.
Reckoner is a must-have in my opinion, against an aggressive meta, but he is even better with Domri in the same deck.
Against U based control he is not optimal but he does interact favorably against Elspeth tokens, as long as you close the game soon afterwards.
I played U/W/x control in 5/8 of my matches in my last tournament, but I think that was just a fluke. I still plan to play Reckoners in my main deck, expecting a similar meta.
Edit: The part about the mana curve, I haven't personally had any trouble casting Reckoner. I am still consistently getting turn 3 Reckoners. Just need to be careful about dropping the right lands at the right times (assuming you are playing some amount of the scry lands)
No, it is foolish to assume a good card is a clear optimal choice when it is not.
I did not say the deck is worse with him, I merely stated that Xeganos plays a better angle of attack for the meta we are in.
I would not even consider running Domri in my list if I were attending states at least not in the main 60.
I am curious what your build is looking like so far. Just from some of your posts it sounds similar to a Naya build I ran into during our states last weekend. I nicknamed it 'Big Naya.' He ran Mystics/Sylvan Caratids/Xenagos and would ramp into Stormbreaths/Aurelia very quickly. It was a scary deck to play against and he made the top 8 as well. He ran a planeswalker heavy build, I believe he ran 3 Domri, 3 Xenagos, 2 Chandra, 1 Elspeth.
I tried him in the past, over 1 Huntmaster. My experience is that he is not suitable for the mainboard, in an open meta at least. Not a fast enough clock against some of the big mana/ combo decks. A poor (and overcosted) blocker against aggressive decks. Huntmaster is a bit more well rounded in my opinion. Tracker can definitely take over games but I wouldn't main board it unless you are expecting lots of midrange / control matchups
I always liked the Boros Charm/Ghor Clan interaction, in theory, I was just never able to pull it off. But putting Charms in for its indestructibility makes sense, and the other 2 forms are also relevant in many cases. ( I have also won games off of the 4 damage to the face when an Esper has tapped out for Sphinxes).
The vast amount of decks out there just makes my non-creature line-up hard to decide on.
Against (any) devotion based deck I generally want my Mizzium Mortars.
Against B/x midrange I want Boros Charms. If they are running Blood Baron I want Mizzium Mortars. If they are packing Desecration Demon/ Obzedat I want Selesnya Charms. More Planeswalkers generally helps in this matchup as well, even if they are packing Heroes Downfalls. Gods Willing/Rangers guile works wonders here.
Against Mono Black+variants Gods Willing/Rangers Guile, Boros Charm. Mortars and Selesnya are still relevant, especially since an overloaded Mortars can put a field full of rats under control.
Against Esper I want Boros Charms and extra planeswalkers.
Against any aggro deck I want unflinching courage.
I didnt mention Domri since he is relevant in nearly every matchup besides hyper-aggressive decks.
Overall it is just a lot to consider and I suppose it will be based mostly on what I will be expecting at a specific tournament. But it generally seems if I am strengthening myself versus one matchup I am weakening myself versus others.
I think, taking into account the current popular decks I will try to work my spell line up to be something like-
2 Ranger's Guile
2 Selesnya Charm
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Domri Rade
I can see how the scry 1 on God's Willing is very good, but for me, it is very important to be able to save a Stormbreath from a Doom Blade (especially against esper since they have few other answers for him other than Verdict).
Out of the board, I think I will keep the 2 Assemble the Legion I currently am packing. Against mono-black or b/x midrange it seems to me it could possibly be one of the better cards, considering they won't have any ways to deal with it in their maindeck. Is there any other cards I should be considering out of the board if I expect to face quite a bit of b/x decks. (hopefully cards that are still relevant in other matchups).
Black has certainly been seeing alot of love.. I am pretty sure any variation of black removal/devotion+ any other color can be competitive.
Certainly makes it hard for us when everyone is jumping on that bandwagon.
I had never actually tried the Pithing Needles they just seemed decent in theory. But at this point I think the B/x decks are probably what we need to worry about. I wonder if it is time to consider maindecking some amount of Gods willing or maybe rangers guile (since it can actually target stormbreath). Or as you mentioned earlier, boros charm is always a solid answer. Perhaps I will move up to 3 or 4 Boros Charms again sideboard, or try to fit 2 mainboard. It is just tough when they generally have a stronger long game and they can drop Merchants to stabilize if we had an aggressive start.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Boros Reckoner
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Polukranos, World Eater
Instant/Sorceries -4
2 Selesnya Charm
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Domri Rade
Land -24
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
3 Temple of Abandon
3 Temple of Triumph
3 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Boros Charm
3 Unflinching Courage
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Assemble The Legion
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
Late update, but this is the list I took to a top 4 finish at the States tournament in my home state, Montana. Around 105 people attended, so a large tournament for our area. Was on 10/12
The list was nearly identical to the list I had taken to a top 4 finish to the Other states tournament a week earlier. -2 Scavenging Ooze +1 Polukranos +1 Ghor-Clan Rampager.
I did not miss Scavenging Ooze and the singleton Polukranos singlehandedly won me at least 1 game.
I dont remember the specifics of every match but here is a run down of what I faced-
Round 1- R/B/W Control/Midrange Lost 1-2
Round 2- R/B Midrange Won 2-0
Round 3- Esper Control Won 2-1
Round 4- (actually i forget what I fought here but I won)
Round 5- MonoBlue Devotion Won 2-1
Round 6- U/W/R Control Won 2-1
Round 7- R/B/W Midrange/Control Won 2-1
First Round of the Top 8:
W/B Like Midrange/Removal (Precinct Captains into Desecration Demons)
Won 2-0
Top 4 Match:
Esper Control (Heavy Planeswalkers)
Lost 0-2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overall I was still very happy with the deck. This was before the mass amounts of Devotion based decks though, which I think Naya is weaker against some (especially the Mono Black Devotion). I think Naya still has a good matchup against Mono Red, Blue, and Green. (havent personally faced any mono whites yet)
My round 1 loss was due to having to mulligan down to 5 both games I lost and land flooding.
In my Top 4 match versus Esper I mulled to 5 trying to get a decent hand first game, and I didnt. Second game I kept a so/so hand but he had all the answers.
I have not seen the amount of Esper decks, in my area, decrease. That fact has led me to consider sideboarding at least 2 Pithing Needles. Though it can be a narrow card it really can shut down Planeswalkers, and a few other key cards in other matchups.
Mainboard Unflinching Makes me sad, but its still winnable game. Turn 2 Fleece into Turn 3 Unflinching sucks bad though unless you are holding a selesnya
I like the singleton Aurelia, some games she just blows away (Like the Mirror!).
How well were the Xenagos against other aggressive decks G1. Also how well did Xenagos do in the mainboard versus the Black control variants (G/B, B/R/W, B/R, B/W, etc)? Xenagos is a card I have considered mainboarding as well and I am just curious how well it has been doing for you. As of now I have him in the sideboard and he comes in versus control.
Very close to the deck at played at my states last week.
Mine was -1 Mountain +1 Temple of Triumph. sideboard is also very similar.
Anyways, I was very happy with the build overall, other than the fact that Scavenging Ooze did not do well for me throughout the day, but that was mostly due to the fact that 5/8 of the decks I played against were blue based control, where I found him to not be that useful.
I did however, have many times throughout the day where I was wishing I had put in a 4th Ghor-Clan.
Anyways, very strong deck choice and it is cool that we both came up with such similar lists independently and goodluck at your states. I am adjusting my build for (another) states this weekend (ran by a different company). I am not planning to make any major changes, a few sideboard tweaks and for mainboard I might add Boros Charm instead of Selesnya and might sub out 1 or both Scavenging Ooze. 1 For a Ghor-Clan, the other for possibly a Polukranos
Definately something to consider, Far/Away seems to usually be at least 2 of in the 75 of Esper Control. Also, Ratchet Bomb has been seeing alot of SB play, even Mainboard in some U/W builds and in Black based control decks
There is also the fact that, in a pinch, Ghor-Clan is a 4/4 Trampler for 4 mana. It is nice to have the option there even if it isn't often used
Pithing on Domri does suck but I wouldnt board in artifact hate because of it. if I see a Pithing on Domri in G2, and the match went to G3 I would likely side out 1-2 Domri, assuming there are actually other relevant cards in my sideboard to bring in.
I really feel like there are 2 versions of Naya currently evolving. Both are great, but they are also different. One focuses on ramping into large creatures or monstrosities. The other focuses on early pressure through value creatures (and continuing pressure)
Agreed, really depends on the board state, and what is in your hand, but either on turn 2 is amazing. That play is basically the only reason I am running Mystics still. Stormbreath a turn earlier is also great, but the t2 Smiter/Domri really can break someone.
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
3 Temple of Abandon
3 Temple of Triumph
3 Forest
2 Plains
1 Mountain
I did not have any problems as of yet playing Reckoner, occasionally if you know you want to get a really fast start in a game you might have to mulligan for less scry lands thoughs, but i think the benefit of them is worse the risk. I see most people running at least 5, from the lists I have seen so far.
Personally it depends on the starting hand, for me. Sometimes you can power out a turn two Domri/Loxodon with a t1 elf. Sometimes you wont have the elf or the loxodon/domri so it is better to play a t1 scry land or pain land tapped.
I like having the option of doing either depending on your hand, who you are facing, etc. Curve out into a t3 reckoner or go for the t2 domri/loxodon/boon(in your case)
Agreed that Ooze ad unflinching can seal games against other aggro decks. I do however feel that losing the Domri+reckoner interaction is also worth considering. It is a pretty common finisher for me, to get in the last few points of damage
From my experience playing Naya so far, post Theros, I am never unhappy to draw a Stormbreath. I would agree with the Scooze cut as well, I am currently trying a maindeck without him. As great as he can be in some matchups, in other matchups he can be a vanilla 2/2. I also find that in some games where there is GY fodder available, I don't have enough green mana to take full advantage of it
Personally, a large portion of my games versus aggro deck ends with me fighting Reckoner into something else with Domri for the win.
Reckoner is a must-have in my opinion, against an aggressive meta, but he is even better with Domri in the same deck.
Against U based control he is not optimal but he does interact favorably against Elspeth tokens, as long as you close the game soon afterwards.
I played U/W/x control in 5/8 of my matches in my last tournament, but I think that was just a fluke. I still plan to play Reckoners in my main deck, expecting a similar meta.
Edit: The part about the mana curve, I haven't personally had any trouble casting Reckoner. I am still consistently getting turn 3 Reckoners. Just need to be careful about dropping the right lands at the right times (assuming you are playing some amount of the scry lands)
I am curious what your build is looking like so far. Just from some of your posts it sounds similar to a Naya build I ran into during our states last weekend. I nicknamed it 'Big Naya.' He ran Mystics/Sylvan Caratids/Xenagos and would ramp into Stormbreaths/Aurelia very quickly. It was a scary deck to play against and he made the top 8 as well. He ran a planeswalker heavy build, I believe he ran 3 Domri, 3 Xenagos, 2 Chandra, 1 Elspeth.