I think for the sideboard I like combo of 6 total between mortars and flesh//blood, however you want to make it in the total 75. Also I think revelry is where we want to be, destroying and damaging is often enough to get there, and if their god is online then we aren't doing a good job in our role IMO. Otherwise, I have been super happy main board scooze also running 3 currently. especially useful in the jund mirror, and the recently popular GB dredge. I think mistcutter is a 4-of, and I've been bringing it in for more than control/mono blue and it has been doing work. Another thing to ramp into, and a hasty threat isn't to be underestimated. Then comes the problem cards of elspeth and desecration demon. I think you need arbor colossus or plummet, and some way to deal damage to elspeth either clan defiance, or maybe lightning strike. Not sure. Otherwise I have mixed feelings about burning earth as well, not sure if it deserves a spot still.
Awesome report, thanks for the writeup. I myself am working toward getting a kiki pod list together and figured I would start with Brian's list. I have read his take on phantasmal image, and wanted to ask, did you ever use it for the 2-3 chain or use it at all? I'm curious with cards like those how to use them. especially since I have lost plenty of games to the beatdown of resto angels, I was thinking 4 would be good to consistently see, combo or not. Also what are your advice for me to play against blood moon? I don't want to auto lose to it
That makes a lot of sense in terms of specific cards and speed of the hand. Thanks for your take on that. Regarding demon and elspeth yeah, I agree those two are the problem cards. I did try clan defiance and liked it, since it was usually at least a 2 for 1, but I'm not usually in a position to use it to kill demon. If sticking in the RG plan do you think that plummet is the best way at getting rid of it? Or would it be a reasonable alternative to side out 2 dragons for 2 arbor colossus? Obviously this opens me up to more removal after side especially, but at the worst it would be another body, whereas plummet would be a completely dead card (since a lot of the decks have stopped using nightveil as well). I used to run those and it was nice for the mirror as well having another threat that can deal with stormbreath.
I did have 2 flesh//blood in the side, but I think mortars was more relevant and less conditional removal, and I had plenty of reach already. something I did try that I liked was clan defiance in monsters side. it helps deal with elspeth quite nicely, and is very often a 2 for 1, and x = 4-5 usually.
Kamahl I ran your list this weekend at GP Phx and went 6-3. Did you attend? I was fairly happy with it, although Desecration demon screwed me over, as well as elspeth in a mono black that I didn't anticipate having white in the side. I also lost hard to the golgari reanimation deck, since I didn't see any of the 3 oozes either game. mistcutter in vs mono black won me a match though. Might need some plummet going forward.
I had some questions regarding how aggressively to mulligan after sideboard, so I always want to have one of the sideboard cards in my starting hand? I've always been confused about that.
Regarding kiblers article, I got to meet him and chat a bit this weekend about RG and we definitely agreed that hasty threats were the way to go, but not sure how to do it. I think rg is positioned well, as more consistent than jund but more reliable and consistently more powerful than naya or jund. just need a way to deal with a couple problem cards. I also concur especially after this weekend that there are a lot of blind obedience and garruk over xenagod is a solid choice. I am also and have always been a fan of running 3 caryatid (and now 3 courser) over the full 4 and I'm not sure why people are so stuck on 4. *shrug* Anyway thanks for the feedback beforehand!
Thanks for the writeup Mootown. I like the latest iteration a lot. I think I would much rather splash black for removal rather than change the core of the deck. I like what you're doing and it seems to go well for you too. I tried straight RG this weekend at GP Phx and ended up 6-3, one short of the top 64. Oh well, I do think removal would have helped against desecration demon, and also that stupid golgari reanimation deck too.
I too think that once the rotation hits naya will be a thing. It's really strong in block right now for Theros. Basically naya good stuff.dec but still good nonetheless. I lost this weekend at GP Phx to a naya monsters combo. turn 4 I was at 18 life he ghorclanned a polukranos then boros charm double strike for the win. I wasn't even mad haha.
So I attended GP Phoenix this past weekend, and did decently in Standard. But on Sunday I entered the Modern event to win 1 of each fetchland if I went 5-0-0 and ended up 4-1 and won 12 packs. So close! Anyway, burn was amazing. Had some super close games and screwed myself on a couple misplays against storm and living end. Overall though, very happy with RB splash green. I took JeyJason's list for the most part. A few things I would have done differently for the sideboard, but the main deck was very happy with.
I out aggroed affinity twice in round 5, and the sideboard was amazing. Also all the artifact/enchantment hate was super relevant as well. I think rain of gore should be graveyard hate to further stop storm and also screw living end.
Round 1: vs scapeshift. I had never played it before but knew the crucial land count was 7, so I tried to race him. Not sure how I would side here, but I didn't see any creatures other than the sakura tribe elder, so I took out the searings and put in fallout. 2-0, he got mana screwed game 2. 1-0 overall
Round 2: vs living end. I knew what it could do but didn't really have a way to stop it. Tried racing and got close all 3 games. Game 1 I managed to get a couple vexing devils out of his combo, but after that he smartly sideboarded to get leyline of the void to prevent me from having any upside. Again didn't have much hate except rakdos charm for graveyard, but I didn't see it until too late. Lost 2-1. 1-1 overall
Round 3: vs storm. I saw what storm could do from the GP richmond and was scared. Game 1 he went off turn 3 and there was nothing i could do. game 2 I won with a top deck of destiny it was amazing. He sided out his ascensions and past in flames expecting graveyard hate, as I sided in enchantment/gy hate. Not sure if that's typical for them to do though. Went down to game 3, and it came down to me getting a burn spell or dying to an attack from his electromancer, since I was at 2 life and he was at 1, preventing him from fetching or tapping his pain land for the combo. I drew a shard volley and won. 2-1. 2-1 overall
Round 4: vs UR delver/control. I saw this guy play next to me in round 2, and saw spellskites so I knew something about his sideboard. Game 1 I aggroed him down with 2 goblin guides. Game 2 he actually outburned me, countering my own then winning with snapcaster bolts. I made a good play when he had a young pyromancer and 4 tokens out to sweep with volcanic fallout. Super relevant can't be countered. game 3 was also close, it was a burn race again, and I attacked with goblin guide, drawing him a land, only to have it vapor snagged putting me at 3. He was at 1 life and drew a spellskite. I pretty much had to draw bump/lava spike or either of my artifact hate, and drew destructive revelry. He had mana leak, but I paid mana for it, then spell pierce, which I also paid. Never be afraid to play your lands when you amass them! 2-1. 3-1 overall
Round 5: vs affinity. Game 1 was too slow for him. I had the nut draw, searing blaze his arcbound ravager and just stomped from there. He didn't get a single damage in on me. game 2 he had the nut draw, and killed me fairly quickly although I punted and killed a singal pest and a memnite instead of killing the pest and his activated inkmoth. game 3 was closer, but I ended up winning due to 2 searing blaze without landfall to kill ravager without targets, then a revelry to kill his steel overseer. From there I just burned him out to win. Really fun matchup though, knowing that it's a race from the get go. 2-1. 4-1 overall.
I think the changes would be to add tormod's crypt or relic of progenitus to the side for GY hate, but I loved fallout, and the 2 damage vs 3 from a flamebreak wasn't relevant this time so I don't know which is better, but for sure I like not being countered. Otherwise I didn't see any twin, but I think I like keeping combust for such a large event just in case. Also not sure if there's anything to side for scapeshift, but I was thinking since I'm in red and black maybe slaughter games to screw over adnasuem and maybe scapeshift, as well as potential upside against more controlly matches. Any feedback is welcome, I know I misplayed several times but it was an awesome learning experience and I had a blast! Thanks for reading
What are your thoughts on a split of 2 mortars 1 blood, with 1 more mortars and blood in the side. So 3-2 between them total, just split in the main deck? I feel like this could be another removal for pack rat, as well as a finisher game 1 against the mirror
That also makes sense, I had forgotten about blind obedience, which definitely screws xenagod over. Thanks for the reminder. And yeah makes sense for the game state and how the 2 damage can definitely be more relevant. In terms of clan defiance, I was thinking it would usually be a t3 for x=2 or if i had 2 dorks x=3. is that a good marker to aim for? Also I know you don't want to talk about sideboarding specifics, but is there any match you don't bring in mistcutter? I've been testing it since you intrigued me before about its value in non control matches, and I honestly love the card. Can even see running 2 main instead of 2 ooze maybe
Thanks for the update... yeah I think people like him due to the absurd win more situations they can create. I think it's definitely more of a dream and you're right, top deck mode without xenagos out already is a lot worse. Do you really like the 2 damage from revelry over the ability to remove a god? I feel that I usually lose to gods and devotion more than the chance they might draw it again, but by that time the game should be over. Thoughts? Otherwise I really do like your numbers, and I think I will try something similar. I had been running kalonian and xenagod, but I feel like I have too many 5 drops and not enough ways to stay alive until then. Way too greedy. Although trample has been surprisingly relevant in a lot of situations.
kamahl, have you made any changes to your list since your post awhile back? I'm preparing for PHX right now, and I liked the numbers on your things, but I have to say I like xenagod over garruk since it can be a hit from domri, but that actually might be a downside being a creature for the amount of black hand disruption going around.
Hello Everyone! I started posting not too long ago, but I wanted to offer a few more of my thoughts to this discussion. I would love some input on how you feel about my approach to this deck!
I used to play a very stock version of this deck, Including 4 Elvish Mystic, 4 Sylvan Caryatid, 4 Courser of Kruphix, 4 Domri Rade, 4 Polukranos, World Eater, 4 Storm Breath, and 4 Mizzum Mortars. At the release of BNG I felt like the deck was pretty dominant, but over time the control strategies adapted and now certain matchups (mono black and esper) have become less favourable. I still wanted to keep the same shell, but I decided I wanted to create a deck that emphasized resiliency and consistency. I think I may have found one. I think this list fairs substantially better against mono black and esper than the current conventional build. I would love to hear your thoughts.
This deck plays a lot more aggressively than the norm. Witchstalker and Domri are both very strong turn two plays if you are lucky enough to get an Elvish Mystic in your opening hand. I have had a great deal of success with it so far, because it is capable of going all in against aggro or playing the attrition game with control decks. I am unsure of how it fairs in the mirror, however.
Notable Choices:
No Polukranos
You will notice that Polukranos, World Eater is entirely absent from the 75, and in his place is Deadbridge Goliath. I know it is controversial but I think that it is an option that more people should be considering. I was very hesitant with this decision at first because I used to have four Polukranos, but I found that I often was hoping not to draw him in removal heavy matches (I was usually hoping for Stormbreaths and Walkers). Polukranos is a beast in a devotion deck where you can go monstrous and board wipe with him. But in a monsters deck, I think that his susceptibility to efficient black removal makes him a little too vulnerable in meta where he is opposed by Esper and Mono Black devotion.
Deadbridge trades favourably with Thoughtseize, Supreme Verdict, Doomblade AND ESPECIALLY Hero's Downfall (One less removal for Domri or Xenogos). Decks making use of those cards will often not finish you before the scavenge becomes relevant. It is worthwhile to know it still is hit hard by Lifebane Zombie though. I also think it is favourable in aggro matches because people really underestimate how much of a hindrance the Legendary part of Polukranos is in those matches. Being able to play Deadbridge in multiples is very relvent and it means drawing one never feels bad. The only matchup where I wouldn't want multiple down at the same time is U/W/x (i.e. Any match with a verdict or detention sphere). Aggro matchups have very hard times dealing with a Caryatid and 2 Deadbrige Goliaths by Turn four. Even Naya Hexproof.
Having a Deathbridge Goliath in the graveyard makes the Ghor-Clan Rampager a relevent top deck in a battle of attrition. A 9/9 Trample is nothing to be scoffed at. Neither is the 8/8 hexproof body that Witchstalker can provide.
The matchup where I most regret not having Polukranos is definitely monoblue because he is the only direct answer to master of Waves. But to be honest, I do not face nearly as much of Mono Blue as I do Mono Black and Esper these days. And being able to play multiples of Deadbrige allows you to be a little more aggressive in contrast with Polukranos who you need to keep alive to kill master of waves. My plan against this deck is to race it with Ghor Clan and Witchstalker and boardwipe with Anger of the Gods, not to fight fair with Polukranos and Master of Waves.
The Three-Drop Slot
Let me start off by saying that I love Courser of Kruphix and I wish I could make it a four of because the first one feels so good. But in a deck that is trying to go down an agressive path, it is a bit of a trap to run four because it doesnt close things out very fast. Getting one is great for filtering draws but if you are worrying about your own life total, two life per land won't keep you alive long enough to turn things around if they have form of evasion so you just need to race. A 2/4 ain't great for that. I used to think that it was made for Domri Rade, and while it still has a great interaction, it is much better in multiples with Kiora. I would include four in a RUG variant using both walkers for sure.
In the 3 drop slot I include four Witchstalker and I am surprised more people are not doing so. Witchstalker allows for so much more reliability out of Deathbridge and Ghor-Clan Rampager. It allows for near certainty with Flesh/Blood and Domri fights. It does well in almost any matchup (including mono blue!). If you have managed to scavenge a Deathbridge onto a witchstalker it is very hard for most decks to recover from that, it can Domri-fight with Desecration demons and survive by that point.
2 Savageborn Hydra (Sideboard)
Savage Born Hydra closes games out so ridiculously fast if your opponent does not have good removal. It works insanely efficiently with a Ghor-Clan Rampager. Starting with an Elvish mystic, SavageBorn Hydra and 2 Ghor Clan rampagers can steal a game as early as turn three win if your opponent uses a shockland and doesn't see it coming. It is also a strong top deck later in the game.
Unfortunately the only removal it DOESN'T get hit by is Ultimate Price, so I don't like running them unless I think they may stick.
3 Anger of the Gods (Sideboard)
Anger of the Gods destroys Esper Humans, and since I don't have a Polukranos its necessary in against decks that run Xathrid Necromancer. It is also very strong against Mono Blue, Pack Rats, Voice of Resurgence, and any weenie decks. Yes, it kills your mana-dorks but if you have sideboarded it in, hopefully you are playing around it.
2 Destructive Revelry (Sideboard)
I know Unravel The Aether hits gods and Destructive Revelry doesn't, but I dont find any Gods outside of Thassa to be particularly problematic. This deck is more than capable of keeping devotion counts low, or killing people outright when they feel they are safe with a well timed Flesh/Blood. Destructive Revelry grants a bit of reach to the deck that Unravel doesn't offer so I think it is marginally better despite being more narrow.
I don't know how to quote two people in my reply so sorry for the double post, but I like the idea of deadbridge, but I don't like not having mainboard answers to mono blue. Or even U/W Devotion which is popular and very FotM right now. I think it's worth at least a 2-2 split, or 3-3 even if you like having a lot of 4 drop 5/5s (which is nice). I'd be curious to see how your testing proves with that change. Otherwise I like it, and think savageborn is interesting. I think I like it more in a devotion deck or one with more mana acceleration. I do want to know though, what is your average x value for it, and how much would you say x has to be in order to be worth playing instead of say a 4,5, or 6 drop instead?
Until recently, I had 3 Anger of the Gods in the board, but I felt we usually have enough blockers to stall weenie decks until we can start crushing. That opened up slots for Unravel, which answers gods, D. Sphere, and Blind Obedience. I'd love to hear some feedback on this: my gut says we should just cram in as many large hard-to-answer threats as we can, and provide problems, not answers. My head, though, says every once in a while, something small and irritating like Blind Obedience can be a big problem.
I'm also probably going to drop Boon Satyrs for two Flesh // Blood. I love the reach this provides, but I'm not sure about running too few creatures for Domri. Would 6 PW's and five sorceries be too much?
Any feedback on the sideboard, or anything else?
I've been a fan of a mix between mortars and flesh//blood (for me it's 5 total for both, usually 3 mortars and 2 blood) in the total 75. It's amazing in the mirror, and even as a 1-of main for me with the 2-1 split with mortars, it's useful enough to be a removal spell for a t2 packrat with a t1 mystic as well as be a game finisher. plus works well with xenagod's ability.
Your list is very similar to mine except I have one less caryatid, courser, and no boon satyrs. Instead running 3 Kalonian's and a Ruric-thar mainboard. I have to say, ruric thar main is doing work, especially since control is back on the rise. Considering running the boon satyrs, but I think it would be too many 3 drops. Still deciding what I want to do for GP Phoenix in a week.
Sideboard - when do you bring in skullcrack? I feel like it's only good against sphinx's rev which I wouldn't side it in vs control anyway. Just wondering your thought process.
27 is minimum creatures for 50% domri hit rate running 4 of them from what I understand, so keep that in mind. I do like the flexibility of boon satyr. I might try swapping out the 1 courser and 1 caryatid instead for 2 flesh//blood or 4 mortars and 1 flesh//blood. I think having 7 dorks and 3 courser is the right number. My opinion though, I could be wrong.
I had some questions regarding how aggressively to mulligan after sideboard, so I always want to have one of the sideboard cards in my starting hand? I've always been confused about that.
Regarding kiblers article, I got to meet him and chat a bit this weekend about RG and we definitely agreed that hasty threats were the way to go, but not sure how to do it. I think rg is positioned well, as more consistent than jund but more reliable and consistently more powerful than naya or jund. just need a way to deal with a couple problem cards. I also concur especially after this weekend that there are a lot of blind obedience and garruk over xenagod is a solid choice. I am also and have always been a fan of running 3 caryatid (and now 3 courser) over the full 4 and I'm not sure why people are so stuck on 4. *shrug* Anyway thanks for the feedback beforehand!
4 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Copperline Gorge
4 Arid Mesa
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
CREATURES 11
4 Vexing Devil
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lava Spike
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
3 Shard Volley
3 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
2 Flames of the Blood Hand
1 Searing Blaze
2 Rain of Gore
2 Combust
2 Volcanic Fallout
4 Destructive Revelry
4 Rakdos Charm
I out aggroed affinity twice in round 5, and the sideboard was amazing. Also all the artifact/enchantment hate was super relevant as well. I think rain of gore should be graveyard hate to further stop storm and also screw living end.
Round 1: vs scapeshift. I had never played it before but knew the crucial land count was 7, so I tried to race him. Not sure how I would side here, but I didn't see any creatures other than the sakura tribe elder, so I took out the searings and put in fallout. 2-0, he got mana screwed game 2. 1-0 overall
Round 2: vs living end. I knew what it could do but didn't really have a way to stop it. Tried racing and got close all 3 games. Game 1 I managed to get a couple vexing devils out of his combo, but after that he smartly sideboarded to get leyline of the void to prevent me from having any upside. Again didn't have much hate except rakdos charm for graveyard, but I didn't see it until too late. Lost 2-1. 1-1 overall
Round 3: vs storm. I saw what storm could do from the GP richmond and was scared. Game 1 he went off turn 3 and there was nothing i could do. game 2 I won with a top deck of destiny it was amazing. He sided out his ascensions and past in flames expecting graveyard hate, as I sided in enchantment/gy hate. Not sure if that's typical for them to do though. Went down to game 3, and it came down to me getting a burn spell or dying to an attack from his electromancer, since I was at 2 life and he was at 1, preventing him from fetching or tapping his pain land for the combo. I drew a shard volley and won. 2-1. 2-1 overall
Round 4: vs UR delver/control. I saw this guy play next to me in round 2, and saw spellskites so I knew something about his sideboard. Game 1 I aggroed him down with 2 goblin guides. Game 2 he actually outburned me, countering my own then winning with snapcaster bolts. I made a good play when he had a young pyromancer and 4 tokens out to sweep with volcanic fallout. Super relevant can't be countered. game 3 was also close, it was a burn race again, and I attacked with goblin guide, drawing him a land, only to have it vapor snagged putting me at 3. He was at 1 life and drew a spellskite. I pretty much had to draw bump/lava spike or either of my artifact hate, and drew destructive revelry. He had mana leak, but I paid mana for it, then spell pierce, which I also paid. Never be afraid to play your lands when you amass them! 2-1. 3-1 overall
Round 5: vs affinity. Game 1 was too slow for him. I had the nut draw, searing blaze his arcbound ravager and just stomped from there. He didn't get a single damage in on me. game 2 he had the nut draw, and killed me fairly quickly although I punted and killed a singal pest and a memnite instead of killing the pest and his activated inkmoth. game 3 was closer, but I ended up winning due to 2 searing blaze without landfall to kill ravager without targets, then a revelry to kill his steel overseer. From there I just burned him out to win. Really fun matchup though, knowing that it's a race from the get go. 2-1. 4-1 overall.
I think the changes would be to add tormod's crypt or relic of progenitus to the side for GY hate, but I loved fallout, and the 2 damage vs 3 from a flamebreak wasn't relevant this time so I don't know which is better, but for sure I like not being countered. Otherwise I didn't see any twin, but I think I like keeping combust for such a large event just in case. Also not sure if there's anything to side for scapeshift, but I was thinking since I'm in red and black maybe slaughter games to screw over adnasuem and maybe scapeshift, as well as potential upside against more controlly matches. Any feedback is welcome, I know I misplayed several times but it was an awesome learning experience and I had a blast! Thanks for reading
I don't know how to quote two people in my reply so sorry for the double post, but I like the idea of deadbridge, but I don't like not having mainboard answers to mono blue. Or even U/W Devotion which is popular and very FotM right now. I think it's worth at least a 2-2 split, or 3-3 even if you like having a lot of 4 drop 5/5s (which is nice). I'd be curious to see how your testing proves with that change. Otherwise I like it, and think savageborn is interesting. I think I like it more in a devotion deck or one with more mana acceleration. I do want to know though, what is your average x value for it, and how much would you say x has to be in order to be worth playing instead of say a 4,5, or 6 drop instead?
I've been a fan of a mix between mortars and flesh//blood (for me it's 5 total for both, usually 3 mortars and 2 blood) in the total 75. It's amazing in the mirror, and even as a 1-of main for me with the 2-1 split with mortars, it's useful enough to be a removal spell for a t2 packrat with a t1 mystic as well as be a game finisher. plus works well with xenagod's ability.
Your list is very similar to mine except I have one less caryatid, courser, and no boon satyrs. Instead running 3 Kalonian's and a Ruric-thar mainboard. I have to say, ruric thar main is doing work, especially since control is back on the rise. Considering running the boon satyrs, but I think it would be too many 3 drops. Still deciding what I want to do for GP Phoenix in a week.
Sideboard - when do you bring in skullcrack? I feel like it's only good against sphinx's rev which I wouldn't side it in vs control anyway. Just wondering your thought process.
27 is minimum creatures for 50% domri hit rate running 4 of them from what I understand, so keep that in mind. I do like the flexibility of boon satyr. I might try swapping out the 1 courser and 1 caryatid instead for 2 flesh//blood or 4 mortars and 1 flesh//blood. I think having 7 dorks and 3 courser is the right number. My opinion though, I could be wrong.