Sorry to say but from the experiences I've been having, I BENCHED Rabblemaster. He soaks up way too much removal, his first token just suidides itself (unless you happen to have a Stoke and want to use it just then). I also ditched my frenzied goblins and am trying out Arena Athlete though I have no opinion on him yet. (4 coordinated assault, 4 titan strength)
I've been quite impressed with Monastery Swiftspear for sure and am moving to 4. Haste is and was always a 'thing'. Triggering prowess is not hard to do.
I'm also impressed with 4 Valley Dasher. I'm never upset to have them in my opening hand!. I'll say it again- Haste is and was always a 'thing'.
I've been 'screwed' by War-Name Aspirant in my hand after Anger of the Gods or some other kung-fu treachery. Borderland Marauder costs the same and can be cast with no hoops to jump through and still attacks for the same which we are always doing. BUT, I still do like the Aspirant so I'm at 4 Aspirants and 3 Marauders. Subject to change. Is having a Marauder in your opening hand with two mountains a bad thing? Hell no. He's aggressive plain and simple for 1R.
I think if you got the 4 titans strength/3-4 assault plan you would much better running arena athelete instead of frenzied goblin as you can trigger his herioc multiple times in a turn.
Thanks for that idea. Seems pretty sweet. Of course I'd be losing some one-drops for this.. oh the decisions. I guess time will tell. Edit- looks like I can afford to lose those one-drops as there are plenty in the deck for opening hand.
I feel the same about coordinated assault and my first plan is to try 4 titan strength and 3-4 coordinated assault instead of hammerhand/dragons mantle. I may be wrong, but I feel like the +1 and first strike for up to 2 creatures for only one mana is awesome and most likely doubles for possibly 2 removals while your creatures survive. I just feel this is more important than hammerhand for example.
I really wanted to Twinflame my rabblemaster but it seems too conditional.. Ya gotta have your rabblemaster on the table and he does soak up the removal. Twinflame would be wasted if they remove your creature in response to you trying to twinflame it.. SO, again, I see coordinated assault as more usable.
Mogis's Warhound may in fact stay alive (IF bestowed) after Anger of the Gods but the guy has to attack each turn and Red/Green monsters is going to have large guys out that didn't die and will easily kill your Warhound next turn since he has to suicide himself. Though, I guess you could Titan Strength him if possible, but I still feel like his turns are 'numbered' and will quickly die to attrition. I'm no pro and I could be missing something here though. For any aggro deck to come back after a board wipe is just plain hard to do anyhow. Maybe making 3 goblins for 1rr will be the sideboard card against this? (Hordeling Outburst for SB)
I think the deck looks excellent and as a matter of fact, I came up with quite the same thing with just a few differences..
Don't ya think the 2 Mogis Warhounds would just be better as 2 more Marauders? I just don't like the 'has to attack each turn' situation unless you happen to be lucky enough to back him up with other tricks instead of a suicide mission.
And personally, I'm extremely excited about Monastery Swiftspear.
Turn 1- Mountain, Akroan Crusader
Turn 2- Mountain, Monastery Swiftspear, Titan Strength on the Crusader, get a token, swing for 7 total. (1/1 haste token, 4/1 crusader, 2/3 haste swiftspear)
And I'm so tempted to try out Hordeling Outburst totally pumps Rabblemaster of course as well as Denizen and Stoke.
Went 5-0 last night (10-1-0). My only loss was game 2 round 1 to U/W control, he hit a turn 1 needle on maze and I never saw abrupt decay or wear//tear. Other rounds were round 2 selesnya aggro, round 3 U/W control, round 4 rdw, round 5 boros burn. The last 2 rounds i started all four games with heroes' runion, elixir or gatekeeper, hitting more lifegain throughout. Riot control was great, of course, but i got bow out both game 2's, gaining 9 life round 4 and 15 life round 5. Swan song saved me in 2 ways in round 4, countering a skullcrack and i gained an extra life from riot control, and i dropped to 1 the turn before i won.
Played both yesterday and today at Gameday as I really wanted the Dictate promos for this deck!
Yesterday, I took Cifka's top 8 R/W Heroics deck and came in LAST out of 8 people. Still got my promo : )
Today, I took my Maze deck, played with a total of 14 people and went 3-1 placing 4th!
I play the older 'buckjunk' list with the 4 blustersqualls, though I use the old land package with 2 shocks and 2 or more of everything else. I switched out 1 blustersquall for my 1 diabolic tutor because I was having problems without him.
Game 1 was against B/W major lifegain had Athreos and so forth.. Me 2-1 even though he sideboarded in tons of sin collectors, durress and the like. I just had the major fist full of fogs. Dictate of Kruphix was awesome here.
Game 2 was against R/G Monsters. Once again, I 2-0'd this deck. Dictate was shining.
(Loss 0-2) Game 3 was against some R/W/G deck with Purphoros, then 2x Assemble the Legion, 1 Elspeth and Trostani on board. Meaning, your going to take massive Purphoros trigger damage every turn. Like 12, 24 and more. He got me 2-0 though the second game I would have won next turn. I diabolic tutored for a riot control, gained all the way up to 33 life, took 28 damage next turn, flashed in Dictate so I could draw 2 because I NEEDED TO and all I drew was breeding pool and another dictate.
Game 4 against MonoBlue. Edit- 2-1 Game one, he got me with lethal after I only left mana open for 2 Judges Familiars on the table. He played a third on his turn, swung with lethal and sac'd all 3 familiars to get the damage through. I played around the familiars game 2 and 3 and won.
Got 4th place and 4 packs (packs were spread out further for gameday)
Hmm, my only issue is with Blustersquall not being able to fully stop Mutavaults. But then again, they can really only get in with one Mutavault every turn this way (holding the other one to activate after the squall), so it's only 2 life per turn. Not a huge threat I guess. I still just like Aetherizing Mutavaults and reducing their mana. It's also nice for bouncing Pack Rats and wasting all the mana they spent. Stormbreath is handled adequately by either wrathing it the turn it comes down (only mono-red with Nykthos can afford to monstrous it the turn it lands), or just Cyclonic Rifting it in response to Monstrous payment. Cyclo can fog one creature too, and at 7 mana turns into Aetherize as well.
I don't see why this list needs any more help vs. Gary or Fanatic - 20 fogs AND 4 Heroes' Reunions main?? Yikes! Nothing based on life-total is going to kill you. My only concern would be that the deck looks a bit soft to mill with only one Elixir. If a singleton Gate gets smashed then you could be waiting a long time to find that Elixir and win...
Also: 6 O-Ring effects in the board? Really? Wouldn't a couple Revokes or Deicides work just as well and not risk giving the opponent back their permanent? Most creatures can be handled with Merciless Eviction.
I assume the Dispels are in to stop counters? Honestly I'd rather just have more Swan Songs. They stop Gods, they stop Burning Earth, they stop Underworld, they stop Sphinx's Revelation, they stop burn, AND they stop counters, and all the opponent gets is an irrelevant 2/2. It's really the perfect counter for this deck.
I'll let buckjunk comment on his choices though personally, I had a good time with this decklist and it 'felt good' playing it (meaning nothing much 'scared' me on the table).
My sideboard was a little different due to local meta and my personal thoughts. I took Evictions in my sideboard for things that needed to be exiled instead of killed.. Evictions work better against decks using Boros Charm for Indestructible for instance. I kept 4 D-spheres in my side but no other o-ring effects. I don't yet have the ballz yet to use Swang Song at all personally.
I have not come across any serious mill decks at all. For now, I'm on board with buckjunk's list unless things get really bad against me in the field-
"Here is the list I will be running (as of now with the current spoilers) once Journey is released. I have been playing maze's end for a while, and dictate just makes the deck even more consistent. Your lands win you the game, so the rest of your deck can be dedicated to the fog plan. I consistently win with this on turn 10 or 11.
Blustersquall is better than aetherize because aetherize can allow the opponent to recast gary, fanaitc of mogis, re-monsterous a stormbreath...Blustersquall can also be used to fog 1 creature if need be so you can activate the maze or if they drop a stormbreath or anything else relevant with haste."
BUCKJUNK, BROTHER! I played your most recent list today and enjoyed it very much! Placed 2nd out of 6 people, only 3 rounds and won 6 packs (didn't pull anything major though) but THANK YOU
I played 3 Dictate of Kruphix as I didn't have 4 and personally felt that 3 would be 'better'.. not arguing here at all.. I really wanted to test it out as well as your 4 Blustersquall. I did not miss the d-spheres at all throughout a total of 6 games played. And my hand doth' floeth' oer' with fogs upon fogs. I ended many games with 4 fogs and a verdict still in hand.
The 4 Heroes Reunion were awesome. As was the extra 5 life on an elixir used once. Shuffle 2 reunions and 4 fogs, and gain 5 life, untap, draw 2 total from Dictate and oh look! A hero's reunion and a Riot Control! Geezus, man. I always had 6-7 cards in hand from 1 active Dictate.
First game was against G/W/B with Obezedat and Sin Collectors and Scavenging Oozes. Me 2-0 even though I got Thoughtseized and Duressed on the second game, I had like 4-5 fogs in hand. And then draw 2 cards next turn. Oh, Dictate of Kruphix, YOU ARE THE SCHIZZ. Dude couldn't figure out what to do about me.
Second game was against Boros Burn- oh boy. Well, I NEVER SAW MY MAZE ON EITHER OF 2 GAMES!! And it went Him 1- then draw due to time. Boros burn could not burn through the life gain. I totally would have won game 1 if I had found my Maze. And then I would have ended up 1st place as this opponent got 1st. Crappy that the second game never produced a Maze either.
Third game was against a newby, I confess. Though he played a downgraded version of R/G monsters and pumps with no planeswalkers. I saw phoenix, huge 12/12 hydras. 5 hyrdra tokens and won 2-0 here. The guy had some scary surprises up his sleeve though getting Ruric Thar in play both games which I paid 6 life to Verdict twice. Dude also demolished my Maze on second game playing Desecration Plague on it! I was like, uh. Seriously? Then it took me 8 more turns to find another Maze and all I had to do was untap and win at that point.
Dictate is the real deal. I was having to discard!
One thing though.. Because I am the diaobolic-tutor-man and because I suffered finding my Maze without him, I think I will probably move out 1 Blustersquall and move in 1 Diabolic Tutor. But again, no arguments on your list, bro. I might end up bouncing back an forth with that one card and it's all about the shuffle anyhow.
I'm beginning to see the usefulness of gatecreeper vine when I think about it- You can grab that extra white or whatever you might need much earlier than activating Maze and as mentioned earlier, it does begin thinning your deck earlier than Maze also..
Hmmmm.
I tried it out as a 1 of, and the only problem i really had with it is the double black. If your mana base can support it, i say play it.
As earlier mentioned, personally, I never had a problem with it but now, with Dcrusius list running the prophetic prisms, that issue should be gone entirely. My last match I played, I ended up never drawing a white source and had 2 verdicts in hand plus an eviction. But even in that game, I never saw my 1 diabolic tutor either. So again, with the prisms, that lack of white or whatever-it-may-be should not be an issue any longer. Hoping. : )
Although I like the list a lot, I think Bow of Nylea could become a second kill condition, and I'm gonna try Ashiok or Elspeth in this slot.
Assemble the Legion is interesting but I'm worried it doesn't help me against my bad matchups, if it gets removed the turn it enters play you get nothing and it is hard to protect it the turn it hits play.
You actually did say that.
I agree with Kiora doesn't work as well as you'd want, but another Planeswalker to consider, if that is the path you want to take, is Ral or even Vraska, though her ultimate is weak, we do run populate in the maindeck...
"become" I mean it could switch into a card that is second kill condition. Maybe it is a language barrier thing. Right now I think that slot could be a Diabolic Tutor: it finds you Maze's End, a non-played Guildgate, a wrath, a fog, etc.
Since I love my diabolic tutor so much, I was going to try your list with that exact replacement. You'll never be disappointed to have a diabolic tutor in hand. Good to see you were at least thinking the same. Oh, and no language barrier.. anybody can take that word to mean different things.
I've been quite impressed with Monastery Swiftspear for sure and am moving to 4. Haste is and was always a 'thing'. Triggering prowess is not hard to do.
I'm also impressed with 4 Valley Dasher. I'm never upset to have them in my opening hand!. I'll say it again- Haste is and was always a 'thing'.
I've been 'screwed' by War-Name Aspirant in my hand after Anger of the Gods or some other kung-fu treachery. Borderland Marauder costs the same and can be cast with no hoops to jump through and still attacks for the same which we are always doing. BUT, I still do like the Aspirant so I'm at 4 Aspirants and 3 Marauders. Subject to change. Is having a Marauder in your opening hand with two mountains a bad thing? Hell no. He's aggressive plain and simple for 1R.
Thanks for that idea. Seems pretty sweet. Of course I'd be losing some one-drops for this.. oh the decisions. I guess time will tell. Edit- looks like I can afford to lose those one-drops as there are plenty in the deck for opening hand.
I really wanted to Twinflame my rabblemaster but it seems too conditional.. Ya gotta have your rabblemaster on the table and he does soak up the removal. Twinflame would be wasted if they remove your creature in response to you trying to twinflame it.. SO, again, I see coordinated assault as more usable.
Mogis's Warhound may in fact stay alive (IF bestowed) after Anger of the Gods but the guy has to attack each turn and Red/Green monsters is going to have large guys out that didn't die and will easily kill your Warhound next turn since he has to suicide himself. Though, I guess you could Titan Strength him if possible, but I still feel like his turns are 'numbered' and will quickly die to attrition. I'm no pro and I could be missing something here though. For any aggro deck to come back after a board wipe is just plain hard to do anyhow. Maybe making 3 goblins for 1rr will be the sideboard card against this? (Hordeling Outburst for SB)
I agree with this. I see a lot of big monster decks. Eidolon is still great SB
My T3-
Mountain (3rd). Tap 3 Mountain and 1 token to Stoke the Flames on Knuckleblade. Or attack and back up combat damage with a lightning strike?
Just my ten cents but I'll let the OP answer as he has been testing it as above-
Don't ya think the 2 Mogis Warhounds would just be better as 2 more Marauders? I just don't like the 'has to attack each turn' situation unless you happen to be lucky enough to back him up with other tricks instead of a suicide mission.
And personally, I'm extremely excited about Monastery Swiftspear.
Turn 1- Mountain, Akroan Crusader
Turn 2- Mountain, Monastery Swiftspear, Titan Strength on the Crusader, get a token, swing for 7 total. (1/1 haste token, 4/1 crusader, 2/3 haste swiftspear)
And I'm so tempted to try out Hordeling Outburst totally pumps Rabblemaster of course as well as Denizen and Stoke.
Excellent work!!
Yesterday, I took Cifka's top 8 R/W Heroics deck and came in LAST out of 8 people. Still got my promo : )
Today, I took my Maze deck, played with a total of 14 people and went 3-1 placing 4th!
I play the older 'buckjunk' list with the 4 blustersqualls, though I use the old land package with 2 shocks and 2 or more of everything else. I switched out 1 blustersquall for my 1 diabolic tutor because I was having problems without him.
Game 1 was against B/W major lifegain had Athreos and so forth.. Me 2-1 even though he sideboarded in tons of sin collectors, durress and the like. I just had the major fist full of fogs. Dictate of Kruphix was awesome here.
Game 2 was against R/G Monsters. Once again, I 2-0'd this deck. Dictate was shining.
(Loss 0-2) Game 3 was against some R/W/G deck with Purphoros, then 2x Assemble the Legion, 1 Elspeth and Trostani on board. Meaning, your going to take massive Purphoros trigger damage every turn. Like 12, 24 and more. He got me 2-0 though the second game I would have won next turn. I diabolic tutored for a riot control, gained all the way up to 33 life, took 28 damage next turn, flashed in Dictate so I could draw 2 because I NEEDED TO and all I drew was breeding pool and another dictate.
Game 4 against MonoBlue. Edit- 2-1 Game one, he got me with lethal after I only left mana open for 2 Judges Familiars on the table. He played a third on his turn, swung with lethal and sac'd all 3 familiars to get the damage through. I played around the familiars game 2 and 3 and won.
Got 4th place and 4 packs (packs were spread out further for gameday)
I'll let buckjunk comment on his choices though personally, I had a good time with this decklist and it 'felt good' playing it (meaning nothing much 'scared' me on the table).
My sideboard was a little different due to local meta and my personal thoughts. I took Evictions in my sideboard for things that needed to be exiled instead of killed.. Evictions work better against decks using Boros Charm for Indestructible for instance. I kept 4 D-spheres in my side but no other o-ring effects. I don't yet have the ballz yet to use Swang Song at all personally.
I have not come across any serious mill decks at all. For now, I'm on board with buckjunk's list unless things get really bad against me in the field-
buckjunk has posted here on previous pages
See page 54 Edit: (I guess I should have used the quote button for his list there)
The below was copied and pasted from http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-new-card-discussion/552918-turbofog-is-back-bant-draw-and-go-with-journey
"Here is the list I will be running (as of now with the current spoilers) once Journey is released. I have been playing maze's end for a while, and dictate just makes the deck even more consistent. Your lands win you the game, so the rest of your deck can be dedicated to the fog plan. I consistently win with this on turn 10 or 11.
Land: 27
4 Maze's End
4 Azorius Guildgate
4 Selesnya Guildgate
4 Simic Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Boros Guildgate
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Rakdos Guildgate
Instant: 24
4 Blustersquall
4 Defend the Hearth
4 Druid's Deliverance
4 Fog
4 Heroes' Reunion
4 Riot Control
Sorcery: 4
4 Supreme Verdict
Enchantment: 4
4 Dictate of Kruphix
Artifact: 1
1 Elixir of Immortality
Sideboard:
4 Detention Sphere
2 Banishing Light
1 Pithing Needle
3 Negate
2 Swan Song
2 Dispel
1 Bow of Nylea
Blustersquall is better than aetherize because aetherize can allow the opponent to recast gary, fanaitc of mogis, re-monsterous a stormbreath...Blustersquall can also be used to fog 1 creature if need be so you can activate the maze or if they drop a stormbreath or anything else relevant with haste."
I played 3 Dictate of Kruphix as I didn't have 4 and personally felt that 3 would be 'better'.. not arguing here at all.. I really wanted to test it out as well as your 4 Blustersquall. I did not miss the d-spheres at all throughout a total of 6 games played. And my hand doth' floeth' oer' with fogs upon fogs. I ended many games with 4 fogs and a verdict still in hand.
The 4 Heroes Reunion were awesome. As was the extra 5 life on an elixir used once. Shuffle 2 reunions and 4 fogs, and gain 5 life, untap, draw 2 total from Dictate and oh look! A hero's reunion and a Riot Control! Geezus, man. I always had 6-7 cards in hand from 1 active Dictate.
First game was against G/W/B with Obezedat and Sin Collectors and Scavenging Oozes. Me 2-0 even though I got Thoughtseized and Duressed on the second game, I had like 4-5 fogs in hand. And then draw 2 cards next turn. Oh, Dictate of Kruphix, YOU ARE THE SCHIZZ. Dude couldn't figure out what to do about me.
Second game was against Boros Burn- oh boy. Well, I NEVER SAW MY MAZE ON EITHER OF 2 GAMES!! And it went Him 1- then draw due to time. Boros burn could not burn through the life gain. I totally would have won game 1 if I had found my Maze. And then I would have ended up 1st place as this opponent got 1st. Crappy that the second game never produced a Maze either.
Third game was against a newby, I confess. Though he played a downgraded version of R/G monsters and pumps with no planeswalkers. I saw phoenix, huge 12/12 hydras. 5 hyrdra tokens and won 2-0 here. The guy had some scary surprises up his sleeve though getting Ruric Thar in play both games which I paid 6 life to Verdict twice. Dude also demolished my Maze on second game playing Desecration Plague on it! I was like, uh. Seriously? Then it took me 8 more turns to find another Maze and all I had to do was untap and win at that point.
Dictate is the real deal. I was having to discard!
One thing though.. Because I am the diaobolic-tutor-man and because I suffered finding my Maze without him, I think I will probably move out 1 Blustersquall and move in 1 Diabolic Tutor. But again, no arguments on your list, bro. I might end up bouncing back an forth with that one card and it's all about the shuffle anyhow.
To everybody, saw this on mtgo 3/16
Who knows what he played against though-
KtotheLo (3-1)
Standard Daily #6865601 on 03/16/2014
Main Deck
60 cards
2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
1 Forest
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
4 Maze's End
2 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Plains
2 Rakdos Guildgate
3 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
27 lands
4 Gatecreeper Vine
4 creatures
1 Crackling Perimeter
1 Cyclonic Rift
4 Defend the Hearth
2 Divination
4 Druid's Deliverance
4 Fog
1 Heroes' Reunion
2 Merciless Eviction
2 Quicken
4 Riot Control
4 Supreme Verdict
29 other spells
Sideboard
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Crackling Perimeter
3 Heroes' Reunion
1 Merciless Eviction
2 Revoke Existence
3 Saruli Gatekeepers
3 Selesnya Charm
15 sideboard cards
I'm beginning to see the usefulness of gatecreeper vine when I think about it- You can grab that extra white or whatever you might need much earlier than activating Maze and as mentioned earlier, it does begin thinning your deck earlier than Maze also..
Hmmmm.
As earlier mentioned, personally, I never had a problem with it but now, with Dcrusius list running the prophetic prisms, that issue should be gone entirely. My last match I played, I ended up never drawing a white source and had 2 verdicts in hand plus an eviction. But even in that game, I never saw my 1 diabolic tutor either. So again, with the prisms, that lack of white or whatever-it-may-be should not be an issue any longer. Hoping. : )
Since I love my diabolic tutor so much, I was going to try your list with that exact replacement. You'll never be disappointed to have a diabolic tutor in hand. Good to see you were at least thinking the same. Oh, and no language barrier.. anybody can take that word to mean different things.