Most of the format's all-star creatures are at least 4/4, so I can see Festerhide being not only an efficient beater but a great blocker as well, until proper removal spells are found. The question becomes is it worth it to have a vanilla creature, regardless of p/t, in this type of build.
Undying Evil is one of the most underrated cards in this format. Not only is it a counterspell for creature removal, it generates so much value for so little mana invested. In a deck built around creatures with ETB and self-sacrifice effects, it's versatility borders on unfair. Consider the following:
- Undying Evil on Brindle Boar: Total of 8 life gained in addition to having a 2/2 and 3/3 body. Total cost, four mana.
- Undying Evil on Crypt Rats: Wrath a board twice, or Pestilence for one every turn and attack with a 2/2.
- Undying Evil on Fume Spitter: Distribute two -1/-1 counters in addition to having a 1/1 and 2/2 body, for only two mana.
- Undying Evil on an evoked Mulldrifter: Draw four card and get a 3/3 flier. Total cost, four mana.
- Undying Evil on Sakura-Tribe Elder: Fetch two lands in addition to having a 1/1 and 2/2 body. Total cost, three mana.
The only card Evil doesn't synergize with is Wickerbough, but that is hardly a drawback given how much raw card advantage it produces with nearly every other creature in the deck. If the goal of this brew is to grind out a victory by getting more resources than your opponent, then this card fits right into that strategy. It effectively functions as a second copy of Grim Harvest.
All your other examples do not generate card advantage! Undying + Brindle Boar does not gain 8 life plus a 2/2 and a 3/3 Body, it simply gains 8 life or 4 life and a 3/3. But you invested two cards! Be careful when to use the term card advantage.
Of course, I was thinking more along the lines of value not strict CA. Thanks for the correction!
The reason I'm building up UE so much is because it is one of the best cards in the UB Trinket Control deck that I started playing Pauper with. I also played the BW control deck that utilized UE with creatures such as Aven Riftwatcher and Doomed Traveler. I've seen the absurd value that this card can produce in a removal heavy meta and I figured this type of deck has a similar focus, hence my suggestion.
To each his own, however! We see things differently and that's ok
I agree that in some MU it would be nice to be able to be a little more aggressive. But I'm not sure 1 or 2 Festerhide Boar will do that. First of all, you also have to draw them in these MU at an early point in the game, which doesn't seem very likely. In all other MU the card is not special and doesn't fit in the deck's strategy.
Undying Evil could be a nice 1-of, as far as removal goes, Victim of Night seems to be a good replacement for Doom Blade, Ghastly Demise is a good card, especially in this deck but I don't know if it really is stronger than Tragic Slip. Replacing one or two could be correct.
Most of the format's all-star creatures are at least 4/4, so I can see Festerhide being not only an efficient beater but a great blocker as well, until proper removal spells are found. The question becomes is it worth it to have a vanilla creature, regardless of p/t, in this type of build.
Undying Evil is one of the most underrated cards in this format. Not only is it a counterspell for creature removal, it generates so much value for so little mana invested. In a deck built around creatures with ETB and self-sacrifice effects, it's versatility borders on unfair. Consider the following:
- Undying Evil on Brindle Boar: Total of 8 life gained in addition to having a 2/2 and 3/3 body. Total cost, four mana.
- Undying Evil on Crypt Rats: Wrath a board twice, or Pestilence for one every turn and attack with a 2/2.
- Undying Evil on Fume Spitter: Distribute two -1/-1 counters in addition to having a 1/1 and 2/2 body, for only two mana.
- Undying Evil on an evoked Mulldrifter: Draw four card and get a 3/3 flier. Total cost, four mana.
- Undying Evil on Sakura-Tribe Elder: Fetch two lands in addition to having a 1/1 and 2/2 body. Total cost, three mana.
The only card Evil doesn't synergize with is Wickerbough, but that is hardly a drawback given how much raw card advantage it produces with nearly every other creature in the deck. If the goal of this brew is to grind out a victory by getting more resources than your opponent, then this card fits right into that strategy. It effectively functions as a second copy of Grim Harvest.
This desk reminds me a lot of UB Trinket Control which runs many of these same cards. One card that I think would go great with this strategy is Undying Evil. With so many sacrifice creatures, Undying Evil provides incredible value. You can gain 4 life and a 3/3 for just 4 mana, a -1/-1 counter and a 2/2 for two mana, draw FOUR cards and get a 3/3 flyer for four mana, etc. I haven't tested the deck yet so I'm not sure how "tight" it is, but just on first glance I would cut the one-ofs and possible Wickerbough elder for a playset of Undying Evil.
I put Nourish to good use in my Turbo Fog deck, and since I know I'll never get ferocious with it, it's just a better card. The double green cost would have made it prohibitive for many decks such as Affinity, too. So, for your decks, it's definitely an upgrade.
I'm actually splashing green for Carapace Forger, but I haven't explored running white for the Auriok Sunchaser. I suppose the evasion could be worth giving up the extra p/t... But at the same time 4 power creatures are king in this format. Running white does open up a wider selection of potential sideboard cards though... Decisions, decisions.
I also feel it will help stabilize against MBC since they can get you down to low life totals due to Corrupt effects. Casting a Feed the Clans in response to a Gary can really throw them off.
I was thinking the same thing, it'll definitely give MBC players pause when they see it.
The two main decks I pilot are Affinity and UG Delve-ness, and I struggle mightly with the burn match up. With either deck, it is very difficult to outrace the barrage of burn spells.
Since both decks make a habit of having 4-power creatures, I am toying with the idea of running a few copies in my sideboard to combat this matchup. Even without the Ferocious clause, five life at instant speed is not half bad. Also, the card can be effective in the affinity mirror match; nothing worse than your opponent thinking they have enough artifacts to Fling their Atog, then playing Feed the Clan and setting yourself up for victory.
I know Nourish was fringe sideboard tech for burn, but Feed the Clan seems to be an upgrade.
I agree 100% about the Mandrills, hence why I would pick them over Delver in this deck. The addition of Thought Scour really helps make those types of plays possible.
I want to take out 2 non-land cards to basically swap 2 lands for 4 Petal. It'd be great to fit in that extra Snap and Hooting Mandrills too but oh well. And the more I think about Delver, the more I start to like it, there's never too many efficient beaters in these kind of decks.
Every time I draw an Aquamoeba, I find myself wishing for something else. Yes it is a valuable discard outlet, but it doesn't need to be an automatic 4-of. Thought Scour, while a fantastic addition to this type of deck, sometimes mills away key cards that could get better use if they were in my hand.
If you're looking to squeeze in two more petals, I would cut one Scour and one 'Moeba.
Regarding Delver, I think you have to decide if you'd rather have him or the Mandrills in the "1 mana, above curve beater" slot.
Pros of Delver:
With ~22 instants/sorceries, it can consistently be a 3/2 on turn two.
Being a flyer, he can reliably break a stalled ground board, as well as hold off flying threats in a pinch.
Cons of Delver:
Horrible top deck late game.
Doesn't quite synergize with the rest of the deck's theme
Pros of Mandrills:
With how fast we can fill our yard, it is always a below curve threat
Great idea for the Zombie sub-theme! Ghoulcaller's Chant is a fantastic card in this type of deck. Nameless Inversion is an underrated removal spell in this format, while the Attendants are highly resilient due to their toughness.
If you'd go for a more controlling build that focuses on clearing the field of threats and finishing with a Shambling Attendant, then I'd go all in on the removal and self-mill suite.
Deck looks good, I'm loving the theme. Thoughts on Doomed Traveler? It fits your theme and provides a resilient, evasive creature that demands an answer. Along the same lines, this deck screams for a playset of Undying Evil. If you decide to keep Augur in, there's noting like making an opponent discard four cards for one mana and one creature. It also makes Safehold Elite practically immortal!
I saw a guy play Delver of Secrets and Gush in this build to great results. Gush fills the hand for more discard fodder and Delver has a good chance of a blind flip given we run ~22 instants/sorceries. Also, what are your guys' thoughts on Compulsive Research? It functions like a second Careful Study with the added bonus of better filtering, but the mana cost does make me hesitate.
That's not a bad idea at all, Airithne. For me, I make a small "cheat-sheet" of certain synergies and tutor targets that I look over before I start a game. Since I have so many decks, it's hard to keep track of what's inside each pile.
There's currently a very similar deck run by Cornebus. His deck list can be found by Googling "Satan's Angels Mtg" (can't post links yet, sorry)
I think that by nature, a demon-themed deck will very closely align with Black's philosophy: win by any means necessary. This could take form with stax-type cards, utilizing life as a resource to draw and deal damage, sacrificing creatures to destroy permanents, etc.
Flavor-wise, anything with the word "demon" fits right into this deck.
Here is my take on a Group Hug/Stax hybrid deck with Kruphix, God of Horizons at the helm. The inspiration for this deck came from the flavor text on Dictate of Kruphix; while it's true that knowledge is power, that power comes with its own set of challenges and difficulties. This deck attempts to capture the dizzying highs of a group hug deck (with extra card draw and mana for all) while finishing the game in a pit of despair through a heavy stax package (tapping/destroying land and limiting combat). The deck aims to win by accumulating lots of mana for a large Blue Sun's Zenith but of the 10 or so games I've played online, most people have just conceded after the stax pieces came down.
To put it bluntly, this deck is not fun to play against at all. It is a gruesome love-child of two of the least entertaining archetypes in the format. The reason I made the deck is because of the aforementioned Dictate and because I am planning on running some kind of version of Kruphix, once I figure out how best to utilize him.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the deck and your ideas on how to best utilize Kruphix as a general! Other "themes" I've tested with Kruphix include the following:
1. Lands matter. Basically pilot it as an Azusa/Omnath deck with 40+ lands and splashing blue. A good list I've come across that touches on this theme can be found here
2. Draw-Go control. This kind of deck would be much more interactive than the current Stax/Hug set up. Win conditions would be similar to what they are now.
I think Bane can fill the Acidic Slime/Oblivion Stone slot as a budget alternative in some cases. With enough trample enablers, he can pack quite a punch if he resolves mid to late game. The mana cost is certainly high and he's a very bad card if Torpor Orb is out, however.
The only drawback I can think of to running Palace is not having enough green mana to properly cast something early game, but thankfully this deck can alleviate that concern with the other mana rocks and ramp. Ideally Thrun shouldn't be dying as there should always be regen mana available, but Palace offers huge upside that can is beneficial when there is no edict protection available.
Of course, I was thinking more along the lines of value not strict CA. Thanks for the correction!
The reason I'm building up UE so much is because it is one of the best cards in the UB Trinket Control deck that I started playing Pauper with. I also played the BW control deck that utilized UE with creatures such as Aven Riftwatcher and Doomed Traveler. I've seen the absurd value that this card can produce in a removal heavy meta and I figured this type of deck has a similar focus, hence my suggestion.
To each his own, however! We see things differently and that's ok
Most of the format's all-star creatures are at least 4/4, so I can see Festerhide being not only an efficient beater but a great blocker as well, until proper removal spells are found. The question becomes is it worth it to have a vanilla creature, regardless of p/t, in this type of build.
Undying Evil is one of the most underrated cards in this format. Not only is it a counterspell for creature removal, it generates so much value for so little mana invested. In a deck built around creatures with ETB and self-sacrifice effects, it's versatility borders on unfair. Consider the following:
- Undying Evil on Brindle Boar: Total of 8 life gained in addition to having a 2/2 and 3/3 body. Total cost, four mana.
- Undying Evil on Crypt Rats: Wrath a board twice, or Pestilence for one every turn and attack with a 2/2.
- Undying Evil on Fume Spitter: Distribute two -1/-1 counters in addition to having a 1/1 and 2/2 body, for only two mana.
- Undying Evil on an evoked Mulldrifter: Draw four card and get a 3/3 flier. Total cost, four mana.
- Undying Evil on Sakura-Tribe Elder: Fetch two lands in addition to having a 1/1 and 2/2 body. Total cost, three mana.
The only card Evil doesn't synergize with is Wickerbough, but that is hardly a drawback given how much raw card advantage it produces with nearly every other creature in the deck. If the goal of this brew is to grind out a victory by getting more resources than your opponent, then this card fits right into that strategy. It effectively functions as a second copy of Grim Harvest.
I'm actually splashing green for Carapace Forger, but I haven't explored running white for the Auriok Sunchaser. I suppose the evasion could be worth giving up the extra p/t... But at the same time 4 power creatures are king in this format. Running white does open up a wider selection of potential sideboard cards though... Decisions, decisions.
I was thinking the same thing, it'll definitely give MBC players pause when they see it.
Enter Feed the Clan.
Since both decks make a habit of having 4-power creatures, I am toying with the idea of running a few copies in my sideboard to combat this matchup. Even without the Ferocious clause, five life at instant speed is not half bad. Also, the card can be effective in the affinity mirror match; nothing worse than your opponent thinking they have enough artifacts to Fling their Atog, then playing Feed the Clan and setting yourself up for victory.
I know Nourish was fringe sideboard tech for burn, but Feed the Clan seems to be an upgrade.
Any thoughts on the card in other contexts?
Every time I draw an Aquamoeba, I find myself wishing for something else. Yes it is a valuable discard outlet, but it doesn't need to be an automatic 4-of. Thought Scour, while a fantastic addition to this type of deck, sometimes mills away key cards that could get better use if they were in my hand.
If you're looking to squeeze in two more petals, I would cut one Scour and one 'Moeba.
Regarding Delver, I think you have to decide if you'd rather have him or the Mandrills in the "1 mana, above curve beater" slot.
Pros of Delver:
- With ~22 instants/sorceries, it can consistently be a 3/2 on turn two.
- Being a flyer, he can reliably break a stalled ground board, as well as hold off flying threats in a pinch.
Cons of Delver:- Horrible top deck late game.
- Doesn't quite synergize with the rest of the deck's theme
Pros of Mandrills:- With how fast we can fill our yard, it is always a below curve threat
- Great synergy with all other cards in the deck
Cons of Mandrills:Great idea for the Zombie sub-theme! Ghoulcaller's Chant is a fantastic card in this type of deck. Nameless Inversion is an underrated removal spell in this format, while the Attendants are highly resilient due to their toughness.
If you'd go for a more controlling build that focuses on clearing the field of threats and finishing with a Shambling Attendant, then I'd go all in on the removal and self-mill suite.
I think that by nature, a demon-themed deck will very closely align with Black's philosophy: win by any means necessary. This could take form with stax-type cards, utilizing life as a resource to draw and deal damage, sacrificing creatures to destroy permanents, etc.
Flavor-wise, anything with the word "demon" fits right into this deck.
Since a large part of this deck will revolve around sacrificing things, throw in some cards that take advantage of this. Innocent Blood, Skirsdag High Priest, Grave Pact
Token makers are also a must. Bitterblossom, Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder, Sengir Autocrat
For hardcore flavor I'd run Lich's Mirror, Descent into Madness, and maybe even Endless Whispers
As far as generals go, Ob Nixilis, the Fallen seems like a solid choice.
Here is my take on a Group Hug/Stax hybrid deck with Kruphix, God of Horizons at the helm. The inspiration for this deck came from the flavor text on Dictate of Kruphix; while it's true that knowledge is power, that power comes with its own set of challenges and difficulties. This deck attempts to capture the dizzying highs of a group hug deck (with extra card draw and mana for all) while finishing the game in a pit of despair through a heavy stax package (tapping/destroying land and limiting combat). The deck aims to win by accumulating lots of mana for a large Blue Sun's Zenith but of the 10 or so games I've played online, most people have just conceded after the stax pieces came down.
To put it bluntly, this deck is not fun to play against at all. It is a gruesome love-child of two of the least entertaining archetypes in the format. The reason I made the deck is because of the aforementioned Dictate and because I am planning on running some kind of version of Kruphix, once I figure out how best to utilize him.
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Breeding Pool
1 Buried Ruin
1 Command Tower
1 Dust Bowl
1 Flooded Grove
11 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Hinterland Harbor
11 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Petrified Field
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Strip Mine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terrain Generator
Creatures
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Eternal Witness
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Kami of the Crescent Moon
1 Mindshrieker
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Prophet of Kruphix
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Clock of Omens
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Howling Mine
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Static Orb
1 Storage Matrix
1 Temple Bell
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Winter Orb
Enchantments
1 Archmage Ascension
1 Awakening
1 Burgeoning
1 Dictate of Kruphix
1 Forced Fruition
1 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Mana Breach
1 Overburden
1 Propaganda
1 Rhystic Study
1 Rites of Flourishing
1 Telepathy
1 Upwelling
Planeswakers
1 Jace Beleren
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Beast Within
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Capsize
1 Constant Mists
1 Crop Rotation
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Forbid
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Noxious Revival
1 Power Sink
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Spell Burst
1 Unravel the Aether
1 Worldly Tutor
Sorcery
1 Curse of the Swine
1 Explore
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Life from the Loam
1 Primal Command
1 Reverent Silence
1 Spitting Image
1 Urban Evolution
1 Walk the Aeons
1 Windfall
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the deck and your ideas on how to best utilize Kruphix as a general! Other "themes" I've tested with Kruphix include the following:
1. Lands matter. Basically pilot it as an Azusa/Omnath deck with 40+ lands and splashing blue. A good list I've come across that touches on this theme can be found here
2. Draw-Go control. This kind of deck would be much more interactive than the current Stax/Hug set up. Win conditions would be similar to what they are now.
Thanks for reading!
I think Bane can fill the Acidic Slime/Oblivion Stone slot as a budget alternative in some cases. With enough trample enablers, he can pack quite a punch if he resolves mid to late game. The mana cost is certainly high and he's a very bad card if Torpor Orb is out, however.
The only drawback I can think of to running Palace is not having enough green mana to properly cast something early game, but thankfully this deck can alleviate that concern with the other mana rocks and ramp. Ideally Thrun shouldn't be dying as there should always be regen mana available, but Palace offers huge upside that can is beneficial when there is no edict protection available.