I've run against 5c humans, too, but it wasn't a big deal. A strong creature deck, yes, but it felt like merfolk or weaker.
Maybe it's because I play the WB E&T version: just exiled their threats with path/sculler/TKS and abused of the -3/-3 from wasteland strangler to kill other threats. The flickerwisp + strangler combo is almost lethal against them: killing 2 creatures while putting a 3/1 flier and a 3/2 blocker is insane.
Also, Zealous Persecution and Orzhov Pontiff from the sideboard was good.
On a side note, I was able to flicker Orzhov Pontiff with Eldrazi Displacer 2 times (2 temples + 2 other lands) the same turn I vialed pontiff in. -3/-3 to all of my opponent's board was insane
Still testing, but it is being a blast in cockatrice. Easily won against jund, death's shadow, RDW and many others.
I would like to read what do you feel about 23 lands vs 22.
So you subbed out Dark Confidant for the Smuggler's Copter? Was the life loss a problem vs some of the matchups or do you just lack the confidants? (Wow, I could have made a horrible pun now that I'm thinking on this...)
Haha, I tested both and copters worked better for me.
> Life loss was a problem on some matchups. Unlinke midrange decks, Eldrazi & Taxes stall with its displacer, flickerwisps and hand disruption instead of strong and cheap cards like scavenging ooze and tarmogoyf. So, while Jund doesnt have to worry about the life loss because they will draw very strong cards for 2 lifes, we have a problem when we draw a TKS and a Flickerwisp losing 7 life, + 2-3 lifes because of lands, etc...
>Flying. This deck wins a lot of matches because of the air attack with flickerwisp, and copter can block flier tokens or help 'wisps to finish the round.
Im thinking about 22 lands instead of 23, and playing 2 Thraben inspector. (-1 Plains -1 Blade Splicer, +2 Thraben inspector to the deck I posted just before). Thoughts?
Ashiok... where is Flickerwisp?
Flickerwisp is just insane in this deck. A must 4-of.
>Remove a land for 1 turn.
>Remove a blocker.
>Combo with Displacer for anti-removal.
>Save TKS and discard again.
>Reset Blade Splicer.
>Reset Thraben Inspector.
>3 damage with flying.
>And way more uses.
As another option that I intend to test, I'm thinking about moving away from the eldrazi and going G/W. That way I gain access to CoCo, Ramunap Excavator and Knight of the Reliquary, not to mention utility lands in Township and horizon canopy. My only issue with that is playing a 2 colored deck with 8 colorless sources. Not to mention the difficulty of playing fetchlands with 4 leonin arbiter in the deck. What do you guys think?
you have to be reasonably certain that your opponent is out of removal (so Displacer should almost always be the last or second-to-last card in your hand when you finally cast it).
That's why Displacer is usually most played in the BW E&T build. It has hand disruption and 4 temples.
Skred Red player here (well, now my pet deck is BW E&T).
The best you can do against Skred with mono-W list is holding up your Restoration Angels to save your best creatures, like Thalia, Flickerwisp, even reset a Blade Splicer (Blade Splicer hurts Skred, they have to spent an Anger or 1x2 her). Never have more than 2 creatures on the field unless you have Selfless Spirit. 2nd round dismember against stombreath dragon, and if they had Mind Stone and you dont mind losing your vials, you can use Stony Silence: Skred usually runs 4x Relic of Progenitus and 4x Mind Stone, so thats 8 dead cards if you play Stony. And if you are facing Skred in your local meta, Mark of Asylum is an auto-win against Skred. Leonin Arbiters are trash against Skred. If you use GQ, use it against Scrying Sheets before they got too much card advantage (Skred wins against other control decks because of Scrying Sheets). Burrenton is not that good against them, neither is pro. red creatures, they run non-coloured sources of damage.
And with BW E&T, save up your vial and creatures for card advantage tricks: example, if you have a Sculler and a Flickerwisp with vial on board, wait one more turn so you can vial in flicker and save sculler. Same goes for TKS, Displacer, etc... Those 2x1 things are Skred's worst nightmare. Also, save your Flickerwisps to reset Koth if you cant do these tricks,Flickerwisp is only good for flickering here since they play Pia and Kiran (thopters are like lingering souls against flickerwisp), Stormbreath Dragon, Volcanic Fallout... also, they do not have any way to recycle cards from the graveyard, so take in mind the cards they have spent: if they had spent 1-2 Skred, they probably only have 3-2 cards in the deck that can deal effectively with TKS.
Also, Lingering Souls do not hurt Skred. They run 4x Relic of Progenitus mainboard and 3-4 Sweepers.
I like Condemn specifically against Death's Shadow, but Fatal Push is an overall better card against other matchups.
Talking about Gonti, he is there against Jund/Junk/Grixis, or any deck that has good topdecks.
Stealing a Liliana/Maelstrom Pulse/Dark Confidant/Huntmuster of the Fells/Kolaghan's... etc, is a nice trick against them.
Also, you can flick Gonti for extra card advantage and he has deathtouch when you want to block.
-Vault of the Archangel provides a great lategame, turning our arbiters, tidehollows and, specially thalia, into deathtouch-lifelink machines.
-5 main 1cc removal is a really nice number against aggro decks, the 5th spot removal card shines.
-Although 4 TDK + 1 Resto seems to be too many 4cc creatures, Im even thinking about changing the single splicer for 1 more Angel. Everytime I had draw an angel it had been a powerful draw that could change the game. But we cannot change the 4 TKS pack: they are better than angels on this deck because we run 4 eldrazi temples and the thoughtseize on a 4/4 creature is too good (and we can flick them for extra hand disruption).
Im starting to think that the "4 TKS + 1~2 Resto. Angel" pack is a must for E&T builds, those 2 creatures are just so great together, TKS covers hand disruption and blocks on ground, while the angel can save him from a removal and provide air covering/damage.
I tested dark confidant in E&T and it didnt worked (at least for me).
You want to play it on 2nd turn or vial him in on your 3rd turn, but those turns are important for Thalia and Arbiter, so... you have to decide wether to follow the Taxes plan, or to have confidant on board (and he will probably eat a removal).
On mid-late game, he can draw one or a few cards but he wont probably win the game, and u will take high damage from TKS and 3cc cards. Opponent can just sit and defend until confidant kills you, or just wait for you to spent your own removal to kill your own confidant.
Confidant is a card for midrange decks, where board presence and strong draws are all that matters, they can be at 1 life and win. For E&T, I feel like confidant will only make you win when you are already winning the game.
Maybe it's because I play the WB E&T version: just exiled their threats with path/sculler/TKS and abused of the -3/-3 from wasteland strangler to kill other threats. The flickerwisp + strangler combo is almost lethal against them: killing 2 creatures while putting a 3/1 flier and a 3/2 blocker is insane.
Also, Zealous Persecution and Orzhov Pontiff from the sideboard was good.
On a side note, I was able to flicker Orzhov Pontiff with Eldrazi Displacer 2 times (2 temples + 2 other lands) the same turn I vialed pontiff in. -3/-3 to all of my opponent's board was insane
Here's my build, not too far from yours.
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Shambling Vent
3 Plains
1 Swamp
Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Wasteland Srangler
1 Blade Splicer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Rest in Peace
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Stony Silence
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Sin Collector
2 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Still testing, but it is being a blast in cockatrice. Easily won against jund, death's shadow, RDW and many others.
I would like to read what do you feel about 23 lands vs 22.
Haha, I tested both and copters worked better for me.
> Life loss was a problem on some matchups. Unlinke midrange decks, Eldrazi & Taxes stall with its displacer, flickerwisps and hand disruption instead of strong and cheap cards like scavenging ooze and tarmogoyf. So, while Jund doesnt have to worry about the life loss because they will draw very strong cards for 2 lifes, we have a problem when we draw a TKS and a Flickerwisp losing 7 life, + 2-3 lifes because of lands, etc...
>Flying. This deck wins a lot of matches because of the air attack with flickerwisp, and copter can block flier tokens or help 'wisps to finish the round.
Im thinking about 22 lands instead of 23, and playing 2 Thraben inspector. (-1 Plains -1 Blade Splicer, +2 Thraben inspector to the deck I posted just before). Thoughts?
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Shambling Vent
3 Plains
1 Swamp
Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Wasteland Srangler
1 Blade Splicer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Rest in Peace
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Stony Silence
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Sin Collector
2 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Flickerwisp is just insane in this deck. A must 4-of.
>Remove a land for 1 turn.
>Remove a blocker.
>Combo with Displacer for anti-removal.
>Save TKS and discard again.
>Reset Blade Splicer.
>Reset Thraben Inspector.
>3 damage with flying.
>And way more uses.
That is an entirely different deck.
That's why Displacer is usually most played in the BW E&T build. It has hand disruption and 4 temples.
The best you can do against Skred with mono-W list is holding up your Restoration Angels to save your best creatures, like Thalia, Flickerwisp, even reset a Blade Splicer (Blade Splicer hurts Skred, they have to spent an Anger or 1x2 her). Never have more than 2 creatures on the field unless you have Selfless Spirit. 2nd round dismember against stombreath dragon, and if they had Mind Stone and you dont mind losing your vials, you can use Stony Silence: Skred usually runs 4x Relic of Progenitus and 4x Mind Stone, so thats 8 dead cards if you play Stony. And if you are facing Skred in your local meta, Mark of Asylum is an auto-win against Skred. Leonin Arbiters are trash against Skred. If you use GQ, use it against Scrying Sheets before they got too much card advantage (Skred wins against other control decks because of Scrying Sheets). Burrenton is not that good against them, neither is pro. red creatures, they run non-coloured sources of damage.
And with BW E&T, save up your vial and creatures for card advantage tricks: example, if you have a Sculler and a Flickerwisp with vial on board, wait one more turn so you can vial in flicker and save sculler. Same goes for TKS, Displacer, etc... Those 2x1 things are Skred's worst nightmare. Also, save your Flickerwisps to reset Koth if you cant do these tricks,Flickerwisp is only good for flickering here since they play Pia and Kiran (thopters are like lingering souls against flickerwisp), Stormbreath Dragon, Volcanic Fallout... also, they do not have any way to recycle cards from the graveyard, so take in mind the cards they have spent: if they had spent 1-2 Skred, they probably only have 3-2 cards in the deck that can deal effectively with TKS.
Also, Lingering Souls do not hurt Skred. They run 4x Relic of Progenitus mainboard and 3-4 Sweepers.
Talking about Gonti, he is there against Jund/Junk/Grixis, or any deck that has good topdecks.
Stealing a Liliana/Maelstrom Pulse/Dark Confidant/Huntmuster of the Fells/Kolaghan's... etc, is a nice trick against them.
Also, you can flick Gonti for extra card advantage and he has deathtouch when you want to block.
Any more suggestions?
Any SB suggestion?
My current deck:
2 Godless Shrine
3 Concealed Courtyard
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Shambling Vent
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Swamp
Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 Fatal Push
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Celestial Purge
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Fatal Push
I think I'll make something like this.
Main:
-1 Restoration Angel
+1 Blade Splicer
Sideboard:
-X ¿Blessed Alliance or Timely Reinforcement?, -1 Fatal Push
+1 Big Game Hunter, +X ¿what?
Can you help me with some suggestions?
2 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
1 Vault of the Archangel
Creatures
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Wasteland Strangler
1 Blade Splicer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Restoration Angel
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 Fatal Push
1 Dismember
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Rest in Peace
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Stony Silence
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
-Vault of the Archangel provides a great lategame, turning our arbiters, tidehollows and, specially thalia, into deathtouch-lifelink machines.
-5 main 1cc removal is a really nice number against aggro decks, the 5th spot removal card shines.
-Although 4 TDK + 1 Resto seems to be too many 4cc creatures, Im even thinking about changing the single splicer for 1 more Angel. Everytime I had draw an angel it had been a powerful draw that could change the game. But we cannot change the 4 TKS pack: they are better than angels on this deck because we run 4 eldrazi temples and the thoughtseize on a 4/4 creature is too good (and we can flick them for extra hand disruption).
Im starting to think that the "4 TKS + 1~2 Resto. Angel" pack is a must for E&T builds, those 2 creatures are just so great together, TKS covers hand disruption and blocks on ground, while the angel can save him from a removal and provide air covering/damage.
Edit: Also, Gonti crushes midrange decks.
You want to play it on 2nd turn or vial him in on your 3rd turn, but those turns are important for Thalia and Arbiter, so... you have to decide wether to follow the Taxes plan, or to have confidant on board (and he will probably eat a removal).
On mid-late game, he can draw one or a few cards but he wont probably win the game, and u will take high damage from TKS and 3cc cards. Opponent can just sit and defend until confidant kills you, or just wait for you to spent your own removal to kill your own confidant.
Confidant is a card for midrange decks, where board presence and strong draws are all that matters, they can be at 1 life and win. For E&T, I feel like confidant will only make you win when you are already winning the game.