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The Magic Market Index for Oct 20, 2017
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The World of Kamigawa
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day - Kilnmouth Dragon
    That's a pretty tasteless card title. Jessica Tandy's only been dead 23 years. Too soon.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Erebos, God of the Dead: Your Soul is Mine
    Quote from EonAon »
    As to the color purple..... eh its not so much the color as to the content of the picture. I mean seriously with a decent amount of exceptions have disliked a lot of the land art since after shards of alara block. The two I named are the ones that scream out swampland to me more than most in the last 7 years. I do like the Chippy swamp in shards of alara quite a lot as well, it reminds me of a dead labyrinth with horrors awaiting to pop out and get you. All the Innistrad block swamp lands both times and especially the Jung Park land is really evocative as well of black.
    Haha, it's funny you mention the Chippy Shards Swamp because it's the one I've been using for years ever since I started with Chainer. I'm only now changing it for a breath of fresh air. Also because it's very popular and the contrarian in me couldn't handle that.

    Yes, the ISD lands are very good. I was tempted to use the one with thy the broken down carriage but the one with the boat just feels like a flavor home run.

    I get what they are trying to do with land art in the recent sets but it really doesn't evoke what the cards named as lately when you consider the artwork. I mean currently Ixalan really floats my boat on all the other colors....but the swamps are so bad and look more like decaying jungles not actual swampland.
    Kaladesh has a good one in Adam Paquette, but that's the only one that screams swamp at me.
    I gotcha. The modern lands are all too constrained by art direction to really make things their own anymore. Too much homogeneity in my opinion. That said, Adam Paquette is probably my favorite modern land artist. Just about everything he does is interesting and stands out from the rest. Sorry, John Avon.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Gitrog Combo Midrange
    Disclaimer: I'm not super up to date on the combo build as I built Froggy as lands.dec, so hopefully my post is relevant.

    Have you considered Glacial Chasm? I play it in my list and it's one of my favorite Crop Rotation targets. So good in the deck when Froggy is out to play. Two cards and a powerful effect that stops cold many paths to victory for other decks.

    I play Splendid Reclamation and you're probably right that it's overkill. It's absurdly powerful after Armageddon but beyond that it feels winmore for sure.

    Also, no Life from the Loam to go with your cycling lands? I'm biased because Loam is one of my favorite cards but it's an all-star in my list. I'm sure there's a good reason not to run it since its kind of an obvious inclusion, but still.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Erebos, God of the Dead: Your Soul is Mine
    Quote from EonAon »
    This may be very Very VERY stupid, but I could see you getting some mileage out of it. Panoptic Mirror. I thought I recalled a sorcery speed scepter effect from way back in the day. The biggest question is how much do you recurse from the GY without using it vs with it.

    I mean it could solve using effects like muck and damnation over and over along with thoughtseize. Minus side it is only 1 card in the entire deck that does this effect.
    It would certainly be worth a test run (hellooo Yawgmoth's Will) but unfortunately it's banned in EDH. Too easy to take infinite turns and other nonsense.

    As to what swamps, your link is broken but the one I like to use is the Alex Horley-Orlandelli land from M10. I personally feel like it gives off a very black feel. The Lars Grant-West land from shadowmoor isn't a bad one either.
    Whoops, thanks for the heads up.

    I see you're also a fan of the color purple. They're not bad. I rather enjoy how colorful the Swamps are from those blocks, a nice change of pace from black and green. I'd love to use some Theros Swamps for flavor purposes but they're all so boring and ugly.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Erebos, God of the Dead: Your Soul is Mine
    Quote from EonAon »
    You may want to consider Raven's Crime or consider playing it alongside. Since this is multi player edh repeatable effects are always good. That and there has to be a cutoff for how much land you need in play even considering the amount of swamp boosters you use. As a bonus its never exiled from the yard you can use it over and over even on sequential turns. Minus its not direct targeted which could be a issue.
    Interesting idea. I played both Raven's Crime and Crucible of Worlds as singletons in the Pox list I played in Legacy and they did some serious work. The big problem is having to pitch lands. To a degree you're right, after getting about 10 lands in play the need to play more diminishes, but since excess mana can easily be converted into cards via Erebos there's really no such thing as too much mana. There's also the less relevant fact that the lack of pinpointing means it's a dead card against a lot of graveyard decks. It competes with Thoughtseize as targeted discard where it just pales in comparison and Words of Waste as recurring discard which I think is a little stronger since it hits everyone and can be used to essentially lock someone out of the game. It's worth testing, though I might put it off until I try Thoughtseize in the wild.

    As hinted above, I'm going to go ahead and try Thoughtseize if I can squeeze in some games after D&D this weekend. Also, as per this thread I'm going to see how Noght of Souls' Betrayal fares as well. But what to cut for it? Polluted Bonds is the prime candidate. Unless I can ramp or ritual into it it just comes down too late to make much of a difference. The damage to mana cost ratio isn't very impressive and it compares unfavorably with Ankh of Mishra in that regard even if Ankh hurts me.

    - Drain Life
    - Polluted Bonds
    + Thoughtseize
    + Night of Souls' Betrayal

    EDIT: Oh, and this is kind of off topic but does anyone have any suggestions for which Swamps to run? I'm currently using this one because it's evocative of Acheron and Charon's ferry but I'm open to other suggestions.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Night of Souls' Betrayal
    I'm glad other people have been having success with it, because I really wanted to give it a shot and see for myself. While my suite of board wipes typically can keep things in check Edgar Markov decks are becoming more common and being able to dump all over his gameplan until he digs up a Vindicate seems good.

    Legacy Pox taught me the value of persistent disruption in the form of enchantments and artifacts over one shot effects. Not that I'm going to be running out and buying The Abyss or Nether Void any time soon but you get the point. Night of Souls' Betrayal might not be as potent as, say, Damnation but the ability to generate incremental advantage somewhat makes up for it I suspect.

    Thanks for the input, gang. Now to find room to test it...

    Quote from Artaud »
    Ascendant Evincar is much better in mono-black assuming you don't face other MBs.
    I'm not sure I agree. I suppose this discussion inevitably leads down the path of ease of recursion vs difficulty of being removed, but the deal-breaker for me is cost. 4cmc and 6cmc are worlds apart to me. NoSB comes down earlier when it's more likely that there are dorks and tokens that haven't been wiped yet. In my deck in particular that is very creature light where the anthem effect of ol' Crovax is wasted I believe Betrayal to be the better card for my deck.

    Of course, in the right list that can better capitalize on all of his effects he's probably better. If I recall correctly your list is staxier and has a higher creature density than mine so it makes more sense for you to run the Evincar. I just don't think it's a clear cut case of one being better than the other.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Erebos, God of the Dead: Your Soul is Mine
    Quote from EonAon »
    I know your trying to keep the cmc of this deck down but have you considered dread if you liked no mercy as much as you seem to? Also it can recycle itself if you can tutor it or draw it again.
    Honestly, the average cmc thing is kind of a joke because I run so many X spells, but it is useful for Ad Nauseaming.

    I haven't considered Dread, but I'm not sure it'll make the cut. It does contribute a lot to devotion and a 6/6 for 6 with evasion and a solid ability is certainly great bargain, but it commits the dire sin of being a creature in a Wrath-happy deck. Half of the creature I run now are mana-doublers, and the other half are drain effects, and Dread is neither of those. It's not a bad card by any means but I think it would find a better home in a more creature-centric deck like Chainer, Dementia Master.

    Speaking of drains, I'm giving serious thought to replacing the OG Drain Life with Thoughtseize. Stripping the combo player's hand of an integral piece or getting rid of that counterspell the blue player is holding before you Torment of Hailfire seems pretty good, and Drain Life is probably superfluous with all the other win conditions I have. Yes, it's card disadvantage relative to the players I didn't target but this deck does not have issues filling its hand.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Erebos, God of Goodstuff
    Quote from Gnathion »
    Like the deck didn't really rely on Erebos?
    I'm not entirely convinced this is a bad thing.

    If your deck is overly reliant on your commander, all it takes is a little bit of disruption to throw you off of your game plan. You should always have back up plans, of course, but if your Plan A involves your commander you're telegraphing it before you even shuffle up. I think there's something to be said for a commander that complements your overall strategy without being too central to it.

    Quote from lyonhaert »
    In contrast to commanders that are part of the deck's engine or are the main win condition or whatever, he doesn't really do anything.
    I would disagree to an extent. Erebos's abilities can be built around. Obviously, the life gain is situational at best, but when it's good, it's very good. I've tuned my deck for having a lot of inevitability and putting a lid on random life gain can be relevant. As for his other ability, well... if you have card draw in the command zone, that frees up a lot of space in deck construction for other things, such as mana generation to pump into Erebos or disruption that you can draw into with him. In this sense Erebos is in fact part of the engine. Actually, one of the major reasons I ended up sticking with Erebos is that he acts as a lubricant that smooths out the way the deck plays, much like oil to a literal engine.

    That said, yeah, he's definitely not flashy and rarely directly kills anyone, and I can't fault anyone for not wanting to play him because of that. He's a meat and taters commander, for sure.

    There are plenty of interesting commanders in monoblack that are truly part of the deck's operations, if that's still your aim.
    I would recommend Chainer, Dementia Master or Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed if you want a more commander-centric win condition in mono-black, though of course there are lots of other interesting, interactive choices like Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker or Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Night of Souls' Betrayal
    Anyone have any experience running Night of Souls' Betrayal in EDH? Specifically in a mono-black control shell?

    My initial thinking is that it's just not big enough of an effect for EDH unless you're pairing it with Humility. In Legacy or Modern when you're dealing with plenty of X/1 creatures it's very good. Hitting my own creatures is irrelevant since I don't run any X/1s, but outside of punishing token decks and hosing mana dorks I don't see it doing too terribly much in a format with big fat fatties. Still, because it's got those two glorious black pips in the casting cost for enabling devotion, helps protect your life total, and has incredible art and flavor text I'm tempted to give it a shot.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Erebos, God of the Dead: Your Soul is Mine
    Okay, it's been a month and while I haven't been able to play as much as I'd like I've made quite a few changes.

    - Scour from Existence: I know, I've been a big proponent for this card, but here lately I've been more and more unhappy to see it in my hand. Yes, it removes problematic permanents at instant speed, no questions asked, and the mana cost is pretty irrelevant in the late game, but the problem is getting to that late game when you can actually afford it. Until that point it's basically a self Gnat Miser. I may invest in Karn Liberated at some point, but until then I think I could do without 7cmc spot removal.

    - Tainted AEther: It's a fantastic card, no doubt, but the deck can already be a tad oppressive and adding land destruction makes it pretty brutal. This is 100% a concession made to keep the deck semi-fun to play against and not at all indicative of its playability.

    - Read the Bones: Worse than Sign in Blood/Night's Whisper early on, which is where these types of cards shine. It's excellent in the mid and late game, but that's where my deck is strongest and digging for four is often less powerful than straight tutoring or drawing a ton with other methods. On the other hand I wouldn't be sad to find a way for it to slot back in, because it really is pretty good.

    - Mind Sludge: I had to make a cut somewhere and this card is only relevant in the mid and late game which is typically when hands are low, making the card superfluous. I included it as anti-blue tech for obvious reasons but it doesn't happen that way very often. Compares unfavorably with Mind Twist, which is just as strong in the mid and late game but can still be powerful in the early game with a tiny bit of mana ramp.

    - Reanimate: It feels very weird to cut this, but I haven't really noticed its absence. It's a generic goodstuff card without much synergy in the deck, and the life loss when stealing a fatty from someone else's graveyard can be a legitimate turn off later in the game. I'm not arguing that it's not a fantastically powerful card, just that it doesn't fit here. I don't run any real fatties, and so this card is worthless until a wrath or two when graveyards fill up, and at that point Animate Dead and Necromancy are almost as good.

    - Maga, Traitor to Mortals: As much as I like killing people with cards from the worst set in Modern Magic, the large body just isn't as relevant as the life gain from Consume Spirit/Drain Life or the versatility of Profane Command. I also got real tired of the political jokes real quick.

    + Bloodchief Ascension: I had never tried it before, but now I'm a true believer. It can be a little awkward to get it active sometimes, especially when the table dogpiles you, but left unchecked you can run away with the game even without Mindcrank. Board wipe? Everybody take six, I go up eighteen. Discard? Oops, your hand is gone and you're below ten. Torment of Hailfire? Time to scoop 'em up. The major downside is that it's a legitimate threat that can turn you into the archenemy, but hey, no risk, no reward.

    + No Mercy: As I pointed out earlier, it's not the best card in the deck, but I started thinking about how often it sent creatures in other directions which makes it a lot better than what I thought was effectively just a life gain card. No, it doesn't stop an alpha strike, but that's not what the card is there for. The deck is all about incremental value and chipping away at opposing life totals works to the deck's advantage. It also has a huge bullseye on it for removal since people often think it's a bigger threat than it actually is, which is relevant in a deck with so many powerful artifacts and enchantments. 2BB: Target player discards Krosan Grip isn't the worst play in the world when you've got Necro, Painful Quandary, or Caged Sun in hand.

    + Necromancy: It's back. The end.

    + Words of Waste: It's also back. Locking people out at their draw step is strong, and with Mind Sludge cut I needed another source of discard. Enabling graveyard decks is always a concern but with Bojuka Bog, Suffer the Past, opposing graveyard hate, and killing the player are all means of dealing with them. It also has incredible art.

    + Oblivion Stone: I loved and played it in Chainer but never put it in this Erebos list because of all the enchantments/artifacts I play. In Chainer, I played mostly creatures, so losing one or two to a full wipe never felt too bad because I could just bring them back. Not so much here, but Oblivion Stone has such a powerful chilling effect on the board that slows things down and allows my incremental damage dealers to do some work. In that respect it's a lot like an Infernal Darkness that eventually blows up the world. Besides, have you seen the new Iconic Masters art? It's pretty good.

    + Leechridden Swamp: A Swamp that comes into play tapped but is incredibly on theme. It should probably just be a basic but I dream of the day I kill someone with it. It will eventually happen, right?

    Whew, wordy post. I never got to try Revel in Riches but I still think it could be fun to try.

    EDIT: Incidentally this lowers the overall average cmc to 1.98. We did it, boys! toot
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day - Kilnmouth Dragon
    Quote from LouCypher »
    This takes me back to a particular time and space, specifically getting my ass handed to me by a BR Zombie deck with this, Lord of the Undead, and Deadapult way back when. Halcyon days.

    It's still a good card, from enabling reanimator to abusing token generators. I hesitate to call it great, since a 2/2 body isn't often very relevant in EDH and being forced to bin two cards can be awkward, but it's still very much worth playing in the right deck.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Favorite color combo out of Mono/Guild/Shard/Wedge/4/Partners/5
    Surprising no one, mono-black is my favorite. Going all the way back to when I got back into Magic around Planeshift, MBC has been my signature deck. Pestilence, as it turns out, is a really good Magic card. The fact that Torment came out but a year after that cemented my love for the color. It does everything I want to do in Magic: draw cards, disrupt opponents via removal and discard, generate boatloads of mana, and of course, convert the worst resource, life, into relevant resources like the aforementioned ones. Really, the color can do just about everything as long as you're willing to pay the price. Greatness, at any cost, right?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Do you choose to be a jerk if you have the chance?
    If making the optimal play is being a jerk, then yes, call me Steve Martin.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on All decks must have a combo...?
    Can you post an example of non-infinite combo?
    Daretti + Mindslaver, Darksteel Forge + Nevinyrral's Disk, and Kuldotha Forgemaster into Blightsteel Colossus with Hammer of Purphoros out, etc. Interactions that either win the game on the spot or put you in such an advantageous position that you might as well have won that aren't loops.

    On topic, no, not every deck needs combos, but every deck needs a way to close out games quickly when you're in a dominant position. I think the problem OP's opponent had is similar to the problem I have with slow play: don't waste my time. I don't think scooping when a player is clearly ahead is a good solution, either. A certain story about Mike Long playing ProsBloom and having to bluff that he had a second Drain Life in order to win comes to mind. Maybe it's because I also have a tendency to play grindy decks but I find it difficult to scoop unless I'm completely dead in the water.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Daretti and the Four Horsemen
    With a few exceptions I'm not a fan of punisher cards. I feel like the damage aspect is too weak and the recursion will rarely happen unless someone is at low life which means you're probably ahead. If I could target creatures it would be a different story. On the other hand 3cmc for a ton of damage/recursion after a board wipe seems fun.
    I love this card from a flavor perspective, so I'll give it a shot. I like the random ramp aspect and all of the activated abilities are relevant here. I'm also a big fan of the aesthetics of the new flip cards. That map look for the lands is very nice.
    It's too bad it can't pay for artifacts or it would be an auto-include hands down. As is, I could see it only being relevant on less than ten cards, which doesn't seem worthwhile unfortunately.
    Well, I'm running Spine of Ish Sah and All is Dust only hits seven cards in the 100, but removal on a rock that can be recurred seems okay. It was in the precon so I got to play with it a little and it was okay. The problem I have with it is that a ten mana Vindicate topdeck is pushing it even in a deck with a lot of acceleration.
    You know, I saw this in a lot of lists and considered it but for some reason (see: stupidity) I never thought about using it on Daretti. Sigh. Please forgive me.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    - Silent Arbiter
    - Platinum Angel
    + Conqueror's Galleon
    + Contagion Engine

    I love how explosive this deck can be. Daretti + Alhammerret's Archive + Combustible Gearhulk + Sculpting Steel is maximum fun.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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