I used a 3:3 split of Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze, Ooze was way more useful in most match ups, DRS only performed against control and only late.
i tested scooze, it was just a bad draw, because it is subpar, and mostly eats burn, or you trade him with something else. just my 2 cents on scooze,
As far as demon over angel is concerned, i think that angel is absolutely your best friend here, and she essentially plays out like this: WW5- have a 5/6 that will draw you 3 cards when it leaves the battlefield
feels like this needs a blue splash for sphinx's rev, supreme verdict, and detention sphere, and i highly advocate blind obedience, and may t post and angelic accord, have you thought about ajani's chosen??
Why are people suggesting Pharika's Mender as a viable card? If we want a way to get back Whip, Obzedat's Aide is better and more versatle at the same CC, while Auramacer is cheaper. 5 mana is a lot for such a boring beater, I'd pretty much always prefer to be casting a bomb like BBoV or AAoT turn 5. Maybe if it put it onto the battle field.
I have to correct myself from yesterday, mender is a house, just good no matter what cards don't get salvaged into the yard, this gal(i think?) is bonkers, she ensures that whip will never stay in the yard, and she has a relevant body. I would say to test her and see for yourself
I'm actually enjoying Deathrite Shaman a lot in this deck. I'm currently testing 3 Grisly Salvage and 3 Commune with the Gods. I've found that the Grisly/Commune enables deathrite mana generation a good percentage of the time early game. A very common sequence of turns i've seen is: Turn 1 Deathrite, Turn 2 commune/grisly, Turn 3 Whip, Turn 4 reanimate. I also feel like deathrite isn't too terrible of a draw later game.
This version is very creature heavy, I also am testing another version where some of the creatures have been replaced with removal. I feel like the deck loses consistency when there are removal cards added, personally.
I've noticed a lot of discussion about Obzedat's Aid and whether or not it deserves a spot. Personally, i'm loving the 4/3/2 reanimation suite that I'm running. Obzedat's aid is amazing if your whip gets destroyed, but reanimating an ashen rider on turn 4 is pretty great. Rescue from the underworld is also a pretty great card, I haven't decided if it's "win more" or not but I haven't been upset to see it. The only concession I have is that it can possibly get milled by commune/grisly.
I feel like this archetype definitely has the potential to become top tier, considering we can reanimate a whole toolbox of threats by turn 4. I'm still trying to decide what creatures I really want to be in the deck though. I've never been disappointed to grab Ashen Rider or Shadowborn Demon as a reanimation target. I'm thinking about making room for Sylvan Primordial but I can't really figure out what to remove. Anyway, i just thought i would contribute some of my thoughts to what is an extremely fun deck!
Your list is very similar to mine at the moment, DRS just gives you the extra reach you need, I have to say that I like all the spells. looking at a 3/2/2 split with 3 aids and 2 whips and rescues, And in my testing, primordial has been my #1 or #2 go to everytime, he blocks everything under the sun, and is super great, i would cut 2 demons, and add 2 Angel of Serenity , she is the best target as she recurs your other to fill your hand, as well as anything tht might be able to block in the air, I also recommend Pharika's Mender, as this can recur whips pitched to salvages, but i also feel 4 salvage/4 commune is absolutely necessary to ensure getting them early enough
Considering the main decks right out of the gates will be Red based i dont think BBoV will be that good. Obzedat is good but i think he is sideboard at best for control matchups.
Im running shadowborn in my list as a 4 of because of what you said...and dropping him on 3 is pretty good.
I probably wouldnt even be worried about small creatures like that because you are just going to fly over them and out lifegain all the damage they do to you.
but BBoV is still problematic, as is ghost dad
EDIT:Also i think Shadowborn Demon deserves testing, i was testing it today and it is absolutely relevant vs anything thats not Desecration Demon
Another point is we get free* lifegain from the whip, making another one of the modes useless. If your running a lot of lotleths deathtouch isn't too bad. I really wanted the bow to be usable as well since we could dig it out, but I don't think it's going to work.
I like renounce the guilds better, but maybe a 3-1 split between them, because devour is good against control, espicially on the curve. What are your thoughts on this?
Thinking about it some more, I'd also be inclined to go with DRS, despite bow's synergy with deadbridge chant. The versatility is way higher and does much the same things as the bow. The deck isn't asking for deathtouch like a more B/G deck might, so the bow is nothing more than a mana sink at that point. Plus it really only works with chant, a 6-drop.
The synergy might be interesting to explore, but not here. Not to mention double-green will be difficult on a mana base that wants all three colors by turn 3 and double black at 4 mana for whip.
I'm going to have to agree with you, the static ability on bow is rather pointless, are all of the dudes are huge, and the 1st 3 modes seem irrelevant to the strategy of the deck, and not to mention it's a nonbo with DRS, i dont think bow has any spots, but i will still test it, and ill post my results later on
Why are people suggesting Pharika's Mender as a viable card? If we want a way to get back Whip, Obzedat's Aide is better and more versatle at the same CC, while Auramacer is cheaper. 5 mana is a lot for such a boring beater, I'd pretty much always prefer to be casting a bomb like BBoV or AAoT turn 5. Maybe if it put it onto the battle field.
I kind of agree with you, i would like to see obzedat or his aid cast on t4 or t5
DRS, Ooze, and Bow of Nylea, can all be used to filter. Might be one of the best uses of Bow, actually.
Since bow and DRS are antisynergystic, do you think they could be run in conjuction of one another, or should one be run over the other, personally, i like the DRS over the bow, but maybe bow as a 1of?
Ghost Whip (Ghost Dad's Whip) is gonna be a thing! Moving on: I really can't decide if I want Obzedat's Aid in the main - even as just a one of. I think it can get our enchantments (whatever you're running be they Whip, Deadbridge, Primeval Bounty, etc.) Also, don't we need a CA engine a-la Underworld Connections/Read the Bones? Or are the Salvages/Communes enough to dig through the library?
Lotleth Troll seems to be a big player here with the discard outlet but I can't decide if I want VoR in the two slot!
Whip is excellent, i really like it, Commune and Salvage is enough, i dont like the nonbo when having to pitch RtB to salvage, or commune
and lotleth troll is an all star, when you draw 2 lands, a troll, a dig spell, and 3 fatties, you can keep that as opposed to drawing a hand with the same stuff -troll + VoR
DECK
3x Omenspeaker
1x Underworld Cerebrus
1x Aetherling
Planeswalkers
3x Ashiok, the Nightmare Weaver
3x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
Instants/Sorceries
3x Dissolve
2x Syncopate
3x Anger of the Gods
1x Essence Scatter
2x Far // Away
2x Doom Blade
3x Steam Augury
2x Thoughtseize
1x Rakdos' Return
3x Dreadbore
4x Watery Grave
4x Steam Vents
4x Blood Crypt
2x Temple of Deceit
2x Mutavault
3x Swamp
3x Island
3x Mountain
2x Duress
2x Dispel
2x Pithing Needle
2x DoomBlade
4x Lifebane Zombie
3x Slaughter Games
I likeShadowborn Demon, he is a 1 of in my 75
i tested scooze, it was just a bad draw, because it is subpar, and mostly eats burn, or you trade him with something else. just my 2 cents on scooze,
As far as demon over angel is concerned, i think that angel is absolutely your best friend here, and she essentially plays out like this: WW5- have a 5/6 that will draw you 3 cards when it leaves the battlefield
I have to correct myself from yesterday, mender is a house, just good no matter what cards don't get salvaged into the yard, this gal(i think?) is bonkers, she ensures that whip will never stay in the yard, and she has a relevant body. I would say to test her and see for yourself
Your list is very similar to mine at the moment, DRS just gives you the extra reach you need, I have to say that I like all the spells. looking at a 3/2/2 split with 3 aids and 2 whips and rescues, And in my testing, primordial has been my #1 or #2 go to everytime, he blocks everything under the sun, and is super great, i would cut 2 demons, and add 2 Angel of Serenity , she is the best target as she recurs your other to fill your hand, as well as anything tht might be able to block in the air, I also recommend Pharika's Mender, as this can recur whips pitched to salvages, but i also feel 4 salvage/4 commune is absolutely necessary to ensure getting them early enough
that seems like alot, could you post your list?
but BBoV is still problematic, as is ghost dad
EDIT:Also i think Shadowborn Demon deserves testing, i was testing it today and it is absolutely relevant vs anything thats not Desecration Demon
I like renounce the guilds better, but maybe a 3-1 split between them, because devour is good against control, espicially on the curve. What are your thoughts on this?
I'm going to have to agree with you, the static ability on bow is rather pointless, are all of the dudes are huge, and the 1st 3 modes seem irrelevant to the strategy of the deck, and not to mention it's a nonbo with DRS, i dont think bow has any spots, but i will still test it, and ill post my results later on
I kind of agree with you, i would like to see obzedat or his aid cast on t4 or t5
Since bow and DRS are antisynergystic, do you think they could be run in conjuction of one another, or should one be run over the other, personally, i like the DRS over the bow, but maybe bow as a 1of?
do you run DRS to filter out cards from deadbridge chant?
Whip is excellent, i really like it, Commune and Salvage is enough, i dont like the nonbo when having to pitch RtB to salvage, or commune
and lotleth troll is an all star, when you draw 2 lands, a troll, a dig spell, and 3 fatties, you can keep that as opposed to drawing a hand with the same stuff -troll + VoR