I'm sorry, but they haven't pushed a planeswalker this much since JtMS. She is the third best planeswalker ever printed, and possibly second. Lili is probably better, but I wouldn't say it was as pushed. In modern this is a turn 5 play, and a completely busted one at that. Letting a control deck serum visions twice, bolt twice, path to exile twice for one card is insane. And don't forget that those cards still hit the graveyard and can be snapcaster'd. U/W/x control in modern is all about card advantage. They run think twice half the time...
Also, while Jace is overall better in vintage, there will definitely be scenarios where you would rather have a narset than a jace in vintage. Rebounding time walk/recall is better than a brainstorm, and with a top in play her +1 is closer to brainstorm. Again, not saying she is Jace, just that situationally she can be better.
More than anything this card will shine in modern control an possibly even tempo/midrange. If you want to wait on her, let her standard impact bring down the price, but pick her up before she starts doing work in modern at the same time.
This may sound crazy, but I think top in modern would actually be less of a slow play problem...decisions in modern wouldn't take nearly as long in legacy...
And to the guy who said every deck would run top, I think you are way off. G/B/x would not run top...they don't care about Bob flips all that much and that deck doesn't have anything it would cut for top...
Delver? No way in heck...they would never be blowing mana early on top and, again, what would they cut?
U/W/R midrange? No way they would remove threats/counterspells...
Pod? They aren't going to lose that many versatility creatures for top spots...
Twin? This is a deck that might see it...
Esper control? Might enable it...
Counterbalance? Of course...
Basically, those are the decks I see running top, and only counterbalance would potentially be slow, and again, I think it would be much faster in modern than legacy...
To combine the two directions this thread has gone, what about unbanning top in modern? I understand that it is banned for slow play reasons, but if modern is starting to become a serious format, they need to not have that be a reason to ban a card. Counterbalance/top would be a legitimate control deck, and it may be good enough that you could justify going esper for thoughtseize + removal + miracle + zur...
I think unbanning top and perhaps ancestral visions could do quite a bit to bolster control without bolstering any other decks too much. I know people are afraid of ancestral in twin, but playing twin is already about preparing for their turn 4, and ancestral wouldn't change that...
There is not enough aggro and control. The reason there is not enough control is there are not good enough counters and card draw. The reason there is not enough aggro is because control is not good enough, so midrange/tempo/combo takes over and wipes the floor with aggro (not named affinity).
I think bogles does a lot that is unfair...hexproof creautures that are resilient to board wipes via totem armor that after 2-3 turns are far too big for anything to block and probably have lifelink.
Second, the check to combo is control, which is clearly the weakest archetype in modern. They have kept control weak enough to the point where they instituted that artificial turn 3 rule. Aggro outside of affinity is played all that much because there is no control for it to dominate and combo just wrecks it. Because of the weakness of control, aggro is slowly phasing out and combo is growing out of control. The only real solution is to buff control to restore balance.
Yeah, tron was the one I included on that list that I felt was the weakest, but mono blue tron is definitely more on the fence of every type since they can mindslaver combo you.
Still, I would argue that combo is currently in control of modern, and that isn't the best place for any format to be. From playing modern, unless one player is playing G/B/x or U/W/R the games don't seem interactive enough to me, but when those decks are involved it is the exact opposite feeling. This is obviously just my opinion/experience.
First off, modern is my favorite format and I only want the format to keep getting better and stronger. With that in mind, people claiming the format isn't stale need to look at Grand Prix Boston's day 2...
46 G/B/x
35 Twin
32 Pod
26 Affinity
22 U/W/R (12 w/o geist, 10 with geist)
22 Scapeshift
20 Burn
12 Tron
6 RUG
5 Merfolk
5 Bogles
4 Living End
4 Infect
33 Other
That is 272 decks, and Twin+Pod+G/B/x+Affinity make up 51.1% of that, so over half...
More importantly, Infect, Living End, Bogles, Tron, Scapeshift, Pod, and Twin are all combo decks or have lots of combo elements to them. Excluding the "other" decks, that means that almost half the decks played are combo or have strong combo elements...
The main issue IMO is that modern lacks a Force of Will type effect to provide a definitive answer to combo. As such, it has to rely on Thoughtseize/IoK which will always keep G/B/x at the forefront as green provides the necessary beater (Goyf) to win games fast enough from this strategy. I think giving non-combo decks faster/more powerful cards will help with this issue. DRS and BBE both sped up the Jund decks, so combo was less effective. At the same time, they need to spread the love or give more combo hate I think to truly diversify the format. They could also always boost control, but they have made it clear they don't want modern headed in a control-based direction.
The rock/Junk/Jund that top 8'd are pretty darn close to control honestly. When you are running 6-8 hand disruption and 8-11 removal spells with 4 lilianas on top of that you are control. Maybe not the control that we are used to, but that is essentially control in modern, just of a different variety.
Heck, the rock is actually classified by MTGTop8 as control...
Wait, what? People think Pod wouldn't run GSZ? I don't think people saying that have played against pod all that often...
Sometimes, all Pod needs is a BoP or Dryad Arbor when they don't have one, and getting one out for 2/1 mana is way different. It is a toolbox deck, and giving them more tutors is not what the meta wants. Sure, chord is instant speed, but when playing against Pod with Jund/UWR/etc. you are trying to keep their board clear, and GSZ makes that nearly impossible.
I don't think WotC is going to risk making the best deck in the format even better by a GSZ unban...
I may have just missed something here, but how is green sun's safe with Pod already being an amazing deck? So Pod should get chord, zenith, and pod itself?
I think the main you bring up that is interesting is the prevalence of combo. Combo can be non-existent in standard as there just isn't enough support for it to make any one combo truly consistent. When combo is consistent in standard, it can be completely warping. While it can be very frustrating to go up against combo, this is also what makes modern and legacy "better" formats than standard to me.
In modern, you can't just play a deck that does its own thing without considering anything else. You have to have serious answers for combo and aggro and control. Talking about combo especially, you have to be able to turn it off (control), kill before it goes off (aggro), or combo first (combo).
What this means, is if you can build a deck fast enough or disabling enough, anything goes. You have dealt with a huge chunk of the meta. Also, since the meta of modern is well established and less shifting than legacy, you also know what the big dogs are, I think its easier to design real hate decks (ala blue moon).
Now, what I will say is that one weakness of modern is that it lacks a true "equalizer." What I mean by that is there is no answer to anything card in modern, esp. combo. Force of Will is the card that makes legacy playable, because it allows answer to turn 1/turn 2 combos. The way Wizards accounts for the lack of this "equalizer" is by making consistent turn 3 combo impossible, meaning you can actually slow a combo and/or kill fast enough to beat them. With that in mind, the closest thing right now to the "equalizer" in modern is bolt, hence the talk about the bolt test for modern.
There are 12 tier 1 decks in modern, and another 21 tier 2 decks...that is a lot of variation. To the untrained eye it may look like there is no interaction, but thats because a turn 1 thoughtseize, a bolt of a goblin electromancer, a geist clock, a pod with creatures on the board provide something that needs just as much answering as an exarch on turn 3.
EDIT: As a sidenote, I play UWR midrange and my friend plays Pod. Even in legacy, I have never played a game that is as interaction heavy as that matchup. Every play is huge, with him constantly trying to get board presence and me constantly trying to keep him off of it via counterspells and cheap removal. From the way you are talking, I think you might really like UWR midrange.
Let me get this straight...people think that despite them waiting until RETURN to RAVNICA to reprint shocklands, we are suddenly going to see Dominaria fetches (Onslaught) or Zendikar fetches in a new plane? Really?
Truthfully, until we see return to dominaria or return to zendikar, we won't be seeing those fetches so get it out of your head. As soon as Tarkir was spoiled, we knew fetches weren't there.
Now, as far as the duals of Tarkir are concerned, I do think that Mana confluence is a HUGE hint. They clearly wanted to "fix" City of Brass, which makes me think they will "fix" the painlands as well. That, or get a cycle of Horizon Canopies finally, for which players have been asking for a long time.
Also, as far as the Onslaught fetchlands are concerned, as silly as it is that only 5 of the fetches are legal in the format, lets not act like it would change anything. Right now, two colored decks still run 8 fetches a lot of the time for deck thinning purposes meaning they already have more than enough way to get those shocks that are almost always exclusively fetched...
EDIT: Also, I think people should really consider the fact that all signs point towards Wizards trying to replace paper legacy with paper modern due to be ing unhindered by the reserve list. If this takes place, they will not want modern to ever be a cheap/affordable format, they just will want to have the power to keep it from becoming ridiculously expensive. People complain about the prices of fetches, but you can get a playset of near mint Misty Rainforest (most expensive fetch) for the price of one damaged Underground Sea.
While there are some value cards in this set, a lot of those cards have value because they are so old or were in a limited release and there aren't that many copies of them...not because of their playability alone.
Most people are going to realize that this set as far as value is concerned is solely based on foil versions of cards that see legacy play. After the dust settles, I'm predicting that brainstorm foil will be the second most expensive card in the set...
A set is not going to sell above MSRP when it isn't a true limited release and the only cards of any real long term value are foils of legacy commons/uncommons and dack fayden...
I don't get the eidolon of countless battles deal...that card is not where the naya version of this deck wants to be to me...
He costs 3 mana as a creature that doesn't have hexproof, and is a 4 mana aura...
If they wipe the board, you better win the NEXT TURN with auras, or he is very vulnerable. Even then, to get the 4 mana to bestow just doesn't seem likely to me where we want to be going. On a different note...
One area I differ from a lot of decks I see is the mana base. If you are trying to be fast with this deck, now that we have Mana confluence I don't think we need 22 lands. I honestly have been playtesting with 20 and it works just fine. I also don't really like temples. We really don't want to have lands come in tapped.
Finally, people have moved away from selesnya charm main way too fast. People will be trying out iroas and thassa still exists. Additionally, +2/+2 can swing the game early, finish it late, and against verdict dropping the 2/2 can be huge...
While non-standard releases do nothing for long term prices, they provide short term relief which is more desired anyways. For people currently playing the game, that is their chance to get in, and the players with the cards aren't losing long term value.
I think seeing fetchlands in Commander decks/MM2/Conspiracy/etc... is exactly what is needed.
Also, while Jace is overall better in vintage, there will definitely be scenarios where you would rather have a narset than a jace in vintage. Rebounding time walk/recall is better than a brainstorm, and with a top in play her +1 is closer to brainstorm. Again, not saying she is Jace, just that situationally she can be better.
More than anything this card will shine in modern control an possibly even tempo/midrange. If you want to wait on her, let her standard impact bring down the price, but pick her up before she starts doing work in modern at the same time.
And to the guy who said every deck would run top, I think you are way off. G/B/x would not run top...they don't care about Bob flips all that much and that deck doesn't have anything it would cut for top...
Delver? No way in heck...they would never be blowing mana early on top and, again, what would they cut?
U/W/R midrange? No way they would remove threats/counterspells...
Pod? They aren't going to lose that many versatility creatures for top spots...
Twin? This is a deck that might see it...
Esper control? Might enable it...
Counterbalance? Of course...
Basically, those are the decks I see running top, and only counterbalance would potentially be slow, and again, I think it would be much faster in modern than legacy...
I think unbanning top and perhaps ancestral visions could do quite a bit to bolster control without bolstering any other decks too much. I know people are afraid of ancestral in twin, but playing twin is already about preparing for their turn 4, and ancestral wouldn't change that...
Second, the check to combo is control, which is clearly the weakest archetype in modern. They have kept control weak enough to the point where they instituted that artificial turn 3 rule. Aggro outside of affinity is played all that much because there is no control for it to dominate and combo just wrecks it. Because of the weakness of control, aggro is slowly phasing out and combo is growing out of control. The only real solution is to buff control to restore balance.
Still, I would argue that combo is currently in control of modern, and that isn't the best place for any format to be. From playing modern, unless one player is playing G/B/x or U/W/R the games don't seem interactive enough to me, but when those decks are involved it is the exact opposite feeling. This is obviously just my opinion/experience.
46 G/B/x
35 Twin
32 Pod
26 Affinity
22 U/W/R (12 w/o geist, 10 with geist)
22 Scapeshift
20 Burn
12 Tron
6 RUG
5 Merfolk
5 Bogles
4 Living End
4 Infect
33 Other
That is 272 decks, and Twin+Pod+G/B/x+Affinity make up 51.1% of that, so over half...
More importantly, Infect, Living End, Bogles, Tron, Scapeshift, Pod, and Twin are all combo decks or have lots of combo elements to them. Excluding the "other" decks, that means that almost half the decks played are combo or have strong combo elements...
The main issue IMO is that modern lacks a Force of Will type effect to provide a definitive answer to combo. As such, it has to rely on Thoughtseize/IoK which will always keep G/B/x at the forefront as green provides the necessary beater (Goyf) to win games fast enough from this strategy. I think giving non-combo decks faster/more powerful cards will help with this issue. DRS and BBE both sped up the Jund decks, so combo was less effective. At the same time, they need to spread the love or give more combo hate I think to truly diversify the format. They could also always boost control, but they have made it clear they don't want modern headed in a control-based direction.
Heck, the rock is actually classified by MTGTop8 as control...
Sometimes, all Pod needs is a BoP or Dryad Arbor when they don't have one, and getting one out for 2/1 mana is way different. It is a toolbox deck, and giving them more tutors is not what the meta wants. Sure, chord is instant speed, but when playing against Pod with Jund/UWR/etc. you are trying to keep their board clear, and GSZ makes that nearly impossible.
I don't think WotC is going to risk making the best deck in the format even better by a GSZ unban...
In modern, you can't just play a deck that does its own thing without considering anything else. You have to have serious answers for combo and aggro and control. Talking about combo especially, you have to be able to turn it off (control), kill before it goes off (aggro), or combo first (combo).
What this means, is if you can build a deck fast enough or disabling enough, anything goes. You have dealt with a huge chunk of the meta. Also, since the meta of modern is well established and less shifting than legacy, you also know what the big dogs are, I think its easier to design real hate decks (ala blue moon).
Now, what I will say is that one weakness of modern is that it lacks a true "equalizer." What I mean by that is there is no answer to anything card in modern, esp. combo. Force of Will is the card that makes legacy playable, because it allows answer to turn 1/turn 2 combos. The way Wizards accounts for the lack of this "equalizer" is by making consistent turn 3 combo impossible, meaning you can actually slow a combo and/or kill fast enough to beat them. With that in mind, the closest thing right now to the "equalizer" in modern is bolt, hence the talk about the bolt test for modern.
There are 12 tier 1 decks in modern, and another 21 tier 2 decks...that is a lot of variation. To the untrained eye it may look like there is no interaction, but thats because a turn 1 thoughtseize, a bolt of a goblin electromancer, a geist clock, a pod with creatures on the board provide something that needs just as much answering as an exarch on turn 3.
EDIT: As a sidenote, I play UWR midrange and my friend plays Pod. Even in legacy, I have never played a game that is as interaction heavy as that matchup. Every play is huge, with him constantly trying to get board presence and me constantly trying to keep him off of it via counterspells and cheap removal. From the way you are talking, I think you might really like UWR midrange.
Truthfully, until we see return to dominaria or return to zendikar, we won't be seeing those fetches so get it out of your head. As soon as Tarkir was spoiled, we knew fetches weren't there.
Now, as far as the duals of Tarkir are concerned, I do think that Mana confluence is a HUGE hint. They clearly wanted to "fix" City of Brass, which makes me think they will "fix" the painlands as well. That, or get a cycle of Horizon Canopies finally, for which players have been asking for a long time.
Also, as far as the Onslaught fetchlands are concerned, as silly as it is that only 5 of the fetches are legal in the format, lets not act like it would change anything. Right now, two colored decks still run 8 fetches a lot of the time for deck thinning purposes meaning they already have more than enough way to get those shocks that are almost always exclusively fetched...
EDIT: Also, I think people should really consider the fact that all signs point towards Wizards trying to replace paper legacy with paper modern due to be ing unhindered by the reserve list. If this takes place, they will not want modern to ever be a cheap/affordable format, they just will want to have the power to keep it from becoming ridiculously expensive. People complain about the prices of fetches, but you can get a playset of near mint Misty Rainforest (most expensive fetch) for the price of one damaged Underground Sea.
Most people are going to realize that this set as far as value is concerned is solely based on foil versions of cards that see legacy play. After the dust settles, I'm predicting that brainstorm foil will be the second most expensive card in the set...
A set is not going to sell above MSRP when it isn't a true limited release and the only cards of any real long term value are foils of legacy commons/uncommons and dack fayden...
He costs 3 mana as a creature that doesn't have hexproof, and is a 4 mana aura...
If they wipe the board, you better win the NEXT TURN with auras, or he is very vulnerable. Even then, to get the 4 mana to bestow just doesn't seem likely to me where we want to be going. On a different note...
One area I differ from a lot of decks I see is the mana base. If you are trying to be fast with this deck, now that we have Mana confluence I don't think we need 22 lands. I honestly have been playtesting with 20 and it works just fine. I also don't really like temples. We really don't want to have lands come in tapped.
Finally, people have moved away from selesnya charm main way too fast. People will be trying out iroas and thassa still exists. Additionally, +2/+2 can swing the game early, finish it late, and against verdict dropping the 2/2 can be huge...
I think seeing fetchlands in Commander decks/MM2/Conspiracy/etc... is exactly what is needed.