Played a 5 player game (only me and 2 others were remaining) and attacked player A with a 22/22 Commander and Player B with a 32/32 Filigree Angel. Player B was at 28 life and Blocked and Player A was at 32 and had no creatures and I had 4 creatures and 216 life. Player A cast Entrapment Maneuver with a Purphoros, God of the Forge. I thought no problem, can sac the 32/32 Filigree Angel player B dies and I can reanimate to gain another 100 life.
Missed the Paralell Lives though. I Ate 128 DMG and Player A finished me off with a Secure the Wastes for x = 72 (he also had Earthcraft out).
I really like this deck, it seems to be really funny and I'm sure it will get a few "woaah"s and "nice"s when piloting.
One thing I would suggest, even though I understand why you chose Scion of the Ur-Dragon at the helm (I mean, its a dragons deck), you only have 2 white cards in the deck, why not cutting white and use Conqueror's Flail to prevent casting stuff in your turn instead?
Ideal commander would then be Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder,so you could cascade into other nice stuff.
You could also use Vial Smasher the Fierce and (Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix or Thrasios, Triton Hero )
I'm thinking about building this deck, with a few adjustments.
Even though I love Tresserhorn, I'm planning on using 2 of the new commanders with partner.
I was thinking about running your list without Torpor Orb and maybe the Loxodon Warhammer and bring in Ancient Excavation and play Vial Smasher the Fierce and Kraum, Ludevic's Opus as commanders for more value.
Precisely! These are how Red decks (and white decks to a lesser degree) control the board state. If you're really going to sit there and make me "earn" my victory with weenies after I've dropped 2 or 3 one sided land wipes.... you're only wasting time that could be used playing a new game. How are combo wins, and hard lock wins more noble or complete? I've won at that point, lets shuffle up a new game already. Players like hqbloomsburry will make ME scoop to not waste time if they want to keep playing it out.
Combo is a more complete win because it kills all players immediately. A hard lock is a more complete win because it means that no one will ever be able to break it no matter how many cards they draw. Nothing about MLD says auto-win, so of course Im going to make you earn your win, especially when my decks have answers to your board state. Expecting other players to scoop to an Armageddon but then scooping when they want to fight back and attempt to win is flawed logic. Essentially you are saying its ok for you to waste other peoples' time by playing multiple MLD spells, yet how dare they waste your time trying to recover so they can play the game they came to the LGS to play.
There is a flaw to your thinking though... Playing multiple MLD spells is not a waste of time, its just something that Red/White decks can do to control the board state. Its no more a waste of anyone's time than a board wipe or a soft lock. Im not referring to the players who may actually draw answers to my board state here; if you have an answer in hand, or can recover in a reasonable amount of time, then by all means play it out with me. But when you're being obstinate about not conceding, spending 10+ turns praying to the heart of the cards, hoping to draw 1 or 2 out of your 99 to address my board state... THAT is what is a waste of everyone's time.
But I promise you, that if someone Boros Charms in response to their own Jokulhaups, its not going to give you 10+ turns to search for an answer.
I really have to say, I've never been in such a position. It might be because our playgroup just doesn't play that way...
I have been in a 4 player game where one player had absolute dominance with his token army and played a "R/G all permanents" deck. Every other player thought that there is no reason to make him play it out (honestly, 200 tokens were there, thats 1 turn, I think you can wait that long, can't you?) and scooped. Well, I didn't, and my method proved me right again:
I drew "Warp World", needless to say I've won that game.
If there is a board state where you need 2-3 turns to play it out, (that's the case in our playgroup, never seen something else) I let you play it out.
I want to acknowledge your win, I want to SEE what you intended and how you indended to win when you built that deck, I want to see the interactions you planned. I want to know what your string of thought was. Playing one or multiple MLD spells and hoping for everyone to scoop is just not interesting. Everyone can do that.
Conceding isn't stealing a win from someone. It's acknowledging the other player's imminent victory.
EDH isn't life and death. It's a game, and a social game at that. Fighting on in a game that is essentially decided means other players have to stand around and wait when everyone could be shuffling up for another game. That's sort of antisocial in itself, unless you have a realistic path to recovery and potential victory.
I am sorry but I just don't feel that way. Usually in our playgroup nobody wins by killing one person after another, it is a very rare occasion that one person has to wait for the others to finish. Usually we all die simultaneously.
Well what's realistic then? As long as I have something I could draw to turn the tide, it's always realistic. I never encountered a situation where I did not have something in my deck to handle whatever was on the board. Why should I concede to someone who just killed everything/all lands besides his indestructible creature? If he needs 10 turns after that to kill me, that is 10 chances to draw what I need.
In our playgroup MLD and Infinite Combos are frowned upon, I'll try to explain why
MLD
If you play your Avacyn and Armaggeddon, it seems that you want to close out the game, which would be totally ok if there wasn't the possibility for me to tuck or exile your commander in response which would set us all back to start. If I already played 2 hours of a game and played most of my "good" cards, I just don't like the idea of starting again with half of my cards AND LANDS gone.
Even if you could recast Avacyn, you would have to deal 90 dmg (3 x 30) with a sole 8/8 flyer who gets exiled and not replayed if I draw 1 land...
Inifinite Combos
As many have already stated, it's just no fun to watch someone play alone by themselves.
I also want to mention that I never concede because I think there is always a possibility to turn the tide as long as I am not dead. Additionally it's just not fair to concede and "steal" the win from my opponent.
I was just wondering, what if Erebos, God of the Dead was in your graveyard and you were to recur it with say Corpse Dance or Dawn of the Dead, would it still be exiled EOT if devotion was < 5?
As I understand it, Erebos would not be a creature at that time and should not be exiled.
Actually, I'm not really sure how to adress the "no mld and infinite combo" topic.
Our playgroup has a silent agreement on "not playing those things", but once in a while there is someone who decides to do some mld or an infinite combo.
When this first happened, I just scooped and looked for other players. As of now I'm always prepared to punish everyone who tries to do something like that. I never put cards in my decks just to respond against mld or combo, I use the same cards I always have.
- You cast some "mld spell"?
- Ok, take every permanent you control back to your hand in response, funny to start with nothing and delay the game for another 100000 hours just to realise all win options are already gone, isn't it?
I usually like to play against those decks / players, heck I even volunteer to play against those,just because I punish them until they realise it's not worth it.
And tbh, up until now, it has always worked for me that way, I usually play with kind of "police" decks where I just watch over the game and try to keep everyone in check.
Missed the Paralell Lives though. I Ate 128 DMG and Player A finished me off with a Secure the Wastes for x = 72 (he also had Earthcraft out).
One thing I would suggest, even though I understand why you chose Scion of the Ur-Dragon at the helm (I mean, its a dragons deck), you only have 2 white cards in the deck, why not cutting white and use Conqueror's Flail to prevent casting stuff in your turn instead?
Ideal commander would then be Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder,so you could cascade into other nice stuff.
You could also use Vial Smasher the Fierce and (Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix or Thrasios, Triton Hero )
What do you think?
I'm thinking about building this deck, with a few adjustments.
Even though I love Tresserhorn, I'm planning on using 2 of the new commanders with partner.
I was thinking about running your list without Torpor Orb and maybe the Loxodon Warhammer and bring in Ancient Excavation and play Vial Smasher the Fierce and Kraum, Ludevic's Opus as commanders for more value.
What do you think?
any new additions/tests or thoughts with the introduction of Conspiracy 2 / Eldritch Moon or Kaladesh?
I really have to say, I've never been in such a position. It might be because our playgroup just doesn't play that way...
I have been in a 4 player game where one player had absolute dominance with his token army and played a "R/G all permanents" deck. Every other player thought that there is no reason to make him play it out (honestly, 200 tokens were there, thats 1 turn, I think you can wait that long, can't you?) and scooped. Well, I didn't, and my method proved me right again:
I drew "Warp World", needless to say I've won that game.
If there is a board state where you need 2-3 turns to play it out, (that's the case in our playgroup, never seen something else) I let you play it out.
I want to acknowledge your win, I want to SEE what you intended and how you indended to win when you built that deck, I want to see the interactions you planned. I want to know what your string of thought was. Playing one or multiple MLD spells and hoping for everyone to scoop is just not interesting. Everyone can do that.
I am sorry but I just don't feel that way. Usually in our playgroup nobody wins by killing one person after another, it is a very rare occasion that one person has to wait for the others to finish. Usually we all die simultaneously.
Well what's realistic then? As long as I have something I could draw to turn the tide, it's always realistic. I never encountered a situation where I did not have something in my deck to handle whatever was on the board. Why should I concede to someone who just killed everything/all lands besides his indestructible creature? If he needs 10 turns after that to kill me, that is 10 chances to draw what I need.
MLD
If you play your Avacyn and Armaggeddon, it seems that you want to close out the game, which would be totally ok if there wasn't the possibility for me to tuck or exile your commander in response which would set us all back to start. If I already played 2 hours of a game and played most of my "good" cards, I just don't like the idea of starting again with half of my cards AND LANDS gone.
Even if you could recast Avacyn, you would have to deal 90 dmg (3 x 30) with a sole 8/8 flyer who gets exiled and not replayed if I draw 1 land...
Inifinite Combos
As many have already stated, it's just no fun to watch someone play alone by themselves.
I also want to mention that I never concede because I think there is always a possibility to turn the tide as long as I am not dead. Additionally it's just not fair to concede and "steal" the win from my opponent.
I was just wondering, what if Erebos, God of the Dead was in your graveyard and you were to recur it with say Corpse Dance or Dawn of the Dead, would it still be exiled EOT if devotion was < 5?
As I understand it, Erebos would not be a creature at that time and should not be exiled.
hqbloomy
Our playgroup has a silent agreement on "not playing those things", but once in a while there is someone who decides to do some mld or an infinite combo.
When this first happened, I just scooped and looked for other players. As of now I'm always prepared to punish everyone who tries to do something like that. I never put cards in my decks just to respond against mld or combo, I use the same cards I always have.
- You cast some "mld spell"?
- Ok, take every permanent you control back to your hand in response, funny to start with nothing and delay the game for another 100000 hours just to realise all win options are already gone, isn't it?
I usually like to play against those decks / players, heck I even volunteer to play against those,just because I punish them until they realise it's not worth it.
And tbh, up until now, it has always worked for me that way, I usually play with kind of "police" decks where I just watch over the game and try to keep everyone in check.