MTG Salvation

Affinity is a big problem for this deck. They have so much evasion and little creatures it is an uphill battle most the time. For awhile, I've wanted to add Forked Bolt or Abrade just for my local meta but Bolt seems pretty lackluster in a bunch of other matchups. Abrade might be a fine addition and should be easier to cast vs. KCommand. Also, you could try the Lingering Souls in SB plan. I heard that card is stellar.

Edit: my current list is below in the sig.

I'm actually running a 1 of Forked Bolt main just to help deal with X/1's. Has helped clear Lingering Souls better. Also an early 2 for 1 vs Affinity since that matchup has been really bad for me.

The question I asked myself was, "Why play Grixis Control when I can play Grixis Death Shadow?" And that gave me my answer. I don't think the deck is in a good spot. This deck is always fighting an uphill battle. UWr Control has better tools for controlling and staying in the game. I think Spell Queller filled the gap of counter + clock in one card. Grixis has nothing close to that. And Gideon(s) are all fantastic control Planeswalkers IMO.

Can't say I didn't think about trying this deck again though just as a refresh. I want to try a different build but not sure if it's any better then the current. It got zero feedback so far.

Grixis Counter Drake

Quote from Equinox2793 »

I'm extremely excited for this card!

OMG, it's stifle pigeon!

If they didn't want Dredge around they would have done it in long ago. I'd say the format is fine currently. No need to ban anything...

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Add Collective Brutality to that discard extra chaff list.

I tried out Grixis Delver+Shadow a while back and I actually really enjoyed it. I didn't explore it too much, but the threat density was very high which was nice. I can't say if it plays the Delver plan better than straight Delver or the Shadow plan better than straight Shadow, but it is still something worth playing around with. Ryan Overturf really got that build known and it never really took off from there. It could be due to optimality issues and the other builds are simply stronger. Try it out, though, and let me know! Playing Shadow forces you to play 4x Thoughtseize usually, and I didn't want any maindeck discard (outside of Collective Brutality) and didn't miss it at all in any of my games (except maybe the Storm matchup which isn't horrible as it is).

Went 3-1 last night with Shadow Delver. Delver replaced Street Wraith because I wanted an early threat while later I could eventually start dropping shadows. Delver confused my opponents and threw them off as to which deck I was on and that was advantageous. They ended up spending removal on them which let my Shadows come down afterwards. Delver also provided a decent clock since he has evasion, something this deck lacks when you aren't running TBR. He did have some trouble flipping which is normal but Serum Visions is in the deck. He was still good when I had no starting hands with shadows to play into. I did not play Wraith for too long but I also did not like the plan of dropping my life so far down only to rely on DS. Maybe it was just bad variance during my initial playing with the deck. My opp had answers for them while I simply did not have protection. There are also times when my discard could not nab all the removal. I think if you are going to play the Wraith version it would be wise to run 4 denials. Also to note, I really liked having 1 Rise // Fall. That card was clutch at doing a few things my opponents were not expecting. My sequence was to hold Snap + Stubborn or Push something end of turn. Then on my turn Rise, bouncing Snap and reviving Shadow back to recast for a total of BBU. Felt pretty good to get more value from a Snap that way. There was also a game where Fall took the last two cards in his hand.

Quote from skullscorcher »

Green is the best color in Modern.

Ancient Stirrings would be my vote for anything to go but I also dislike banning more cards. Stirrings is a broken card in the decks that play due to having no downside (Tron, Lantern, Scrap Trawlololer Combo, Bant Eldrazi) and looking at the top 5 from lands(temple, tron lands), answer(EE, Bridge, Karn) or threats(too many to count..) is way too good.

I'm ok with a Stoneforge or Preordain unban. Ancestral Vision did nothing but give us false hope.

So in case someone was looking for inspiration on alters I came up with what I think would be cool. The theme I am suggesting is Full Metal Alchemist alters on the following cards (specifically a modern Grixis deck):

• Young Pyromancer = Roy Mustang (fire maniac)
• Snapcaster Mage = Edward Elric (transmuter of cheap things) Or would Delver of Secrets be more fitting?
• Tasigur, the Golden fang = Alfonse Elric (fatty)
• Gurmag Angler = Gluttony (seriously look at his mouth, so similar)
• Delver of Secrets = Van Hohenheim or Father?
• Liliana of the Veil = Pride (because she's a girl?)

Just some idea's mostly. Oh and I really dig that Princess Mononoke alter!

Quote from ThirdDegree »

Quote from cfusionpm »

Quote from ThirdDegree »

Quote from Pokken »

If Grixis Shadow is a blue deck then Infect was a blue deck.

Infect ran a blue creature and maybe a spell pierce or two in the main. DS runs serum, snap, stubborn, and though scour. That gives it some blue identity. I don't understand how GDS is not thought of as a deck that has one foot solidly in the blue camp. My point from earlier is that almost all 'blue' decks use the blue cards to find things from other colors. Blue is not known for it's finishers.

See the last line of this post: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/773038-state-of-modern-thread-bans-format-health-metagame?page=139#c3475

I'm not saying the strengths of the deck are blue, I am saying that using blue cards to dig for your answers/threats or using snap to flashback removal is still a blue thing to do. When I would play jeskai control, my blue spells were all about finding and/or protecting nahiri, or snapping back bolt several times. (I'm by no means arguing that DS is as blue as jeskai control, just making a point). I see what you're saying, and I still think that blue needs help, despite that I also think DS is a blue deck. Someone previously talked about not just color identity, but shard/wedge identity. And GDS certainly 'feels' grixis to me.

As someone who spent the majority of their time in modern playing Twin and Delver strategies, Shadow is about the least "blue" blue deck I have ever played. It's certainly a fun and powerful deck to play, but literally 75% of the deck is black (most of which mono black), all of the cards that do anything of significance are black, and the deck does not function whatsoever without black mana. This means it plays more like a BGx attrition deck than a URx tempo deck.

I would personally love to be playing Delvers and Remands and Young Pyromancers again, but that's just not where the format is right now. You either need to be doing something fast, broken, and powerful, or accept being at a significant disadvantage in most matchups.

Quote from bocephus »

On the subject of Stirrings vs Preordain. I never have whiffed with Preordain, I have whiffed multiple times with Stirrings.

Ponder > Preordain >>>>>>>> Stirrings

How is your anecdotal statistical outlier important to a conversation about Ancient Stirrings and Preordain? The fact that you think ponder and preordain are orders of magnitude better than Ancient Stirrings instantly disqualifies you from the conversation as you are obviously unable to evaluate the cards.

In any deck that is playing Stirrings, Stirrings >>>>>> Preordain

In a deck that can't use Stirrings, Preordain >>>>>> Stirrings.

So what does that tell us? Cards have to be evaluated in the context they are used - who cares if Mental Misstep is bad in a format with no 1 cmc spells?

We are in a format where there is a high enough saturation of cards that some decks are able to use Ancient Stirrings better than ANY deck could use Preordain. That is the important detail, not how you personally used it or the statistical abnormalities you experience.

And all this is to argue that Preordain is fine in a format that tolerates the level of consistency offered by Ancient Stirrings.

No Bans No Unbannings

Twin is rightfully locked up with the likes of BBE, SS, and Pod for actually being bad for the format.

I could see them unbanning SFM, I don't think they will since SFM is a highly visible card in Legacy and WotC has stated that they would like modern to be a visibly different format than Legacy which I imagine to mean if its a legacy staple it probably will not see a day off the banned list.

Currently the format seems to fit the desire of a highly diverse format in which you can build any deck well enough to compete within reason, unbanning SFM just helps a bunch of decks that don't need the help more than it helps the decks that could actually use it.

lets hope that we can get some good modern level playable cards that don't have BG in the c.c. We get it WotC the Rock used to suck and it was laughably called the best worst deck for years and you wanted to prove that it could be good, now its leaps and bounds better than anything any other color is capable of. Direct some of that energy to UWR for awhile please.

If you use Rosewater's and Forsythe's comments to craft a theory, i would say that Hour of Devastation will bring something pushed for Blue to use. Rosewater said that Hour will be the first set that they could apply recent concerns and knowledge by the community, and Forsythe said he will adress blue issues in Modern.

I don't think they will unban any card. Jace if they feel that it is safer than safest. And Preordain if they change their goals for the format. Both seem dubious at best. I'm personally avoiding getting to close to any blue archetype because i feel they will make some changes in the format.

Also, i think some Shadow piece can be avoid being banned by empowering a struggling archetype like Control to give people reasons to not just jam 4 TS and 4 Shadows and call it a day.

I agree. Revolt counterspell was a huge miss.

Quote from wpgstevo »

Efficient beaters are not in blue's section of the colour pie, I don't know what to tell you if you expect blue Tarmogoyf. That's in green's section of the colour pie, and they didn't even intend green to have such a powerful/efficient two drop.

I think you would benefit from realigning your expectations for how WotC prints cards. The colour pie is a thing (even if mangled at times).

Yeah, let’s talk about the color pie.  So what is blue’s identity then in modern?  As far as I can tell, it’s a few cantrips, some average card draw/selection spells, counterspells that are either good early game or late game, so you better hope draw the right ones at the right time (while leaning heavily on another color), and Snapcaster Mage.

The printing of Censor was the third strike for me.  Missing out on Prohibit in BFZ, a card that would have been perfect for modern and not tag the fatties that see play in standard (as far as I know), was upsetting.  Then, the lack of any revolt enabled counter was an egregious omission in my opinion.  Finally, the unplayable Censor taking the place of Miscalculation is simply an affront at this point.  So if I take your advice and “realign my expectations”, what should I expect exactly?  Limited playable counterspells and sphinxes for as long as I want to continue playing blue in magic?  Maybe I’m entitled, it’s possible, but I just look at the things that get printed for other slices of the color pie and I can’t help but feel a little left out. 

You mentioned that the color pie was “mangled at times”, and it seems to be a growing trend in certain directions.  Blue is essentially limited to the functions mentioned above in modern (with the notable exception going to merfolk), while another color, that shall remain nameless, has the most efficient/resilient creatures, has a 3 mana vindicate with an often irrelevant downside, increasing amounts of graveyard recursion, access to strong card draw/selection options that are justified by them being centered around creatures or lands, a spell that can cheat 6 mana worth of creatures onto the battlefield at instant speed for 4 mana, modern playable tutor capabilities, the ability to accelerate mana development, effects that grow its creatures both permanently and temporarily, graveyard hate, and has a growing repertoire of creatures with spells simply attached to them, or with repeatable abilities.

Just to be clear, I don’t want mono blue tyranny, just a counterspell that I can play on turn two, and turn twelve and feel like it was a worthwhile inclusion in my deck, or a win condition that isn’t just laughed off by my opponent and they continue to mash my face with beaters.  Why does one player get to cast a Goyf on turn two and actively begin winning the game while another isn’t even allowed to unconditionally counter a spell for the same amount of mana just to prevent themselves from dying?

The way I see the color pie, the format should break down to this type of focus:

White, Green: Creature-based interaction (Goyf, Thalia, Melira when she was relevant)
Blue, Black: Spell-based interaction (Counters, Removal, Card Advantage)
Red: Aggro (Both spell and creature based, ex. Bolt and Temur Battle Rage or Goblin Guide and Monastary Swiftspear)


What we have now is:
White: Niche play by creatures (Thalia, Lingering Souls), one good removal spell (Path)
Blue: Stunted interactivity (Mana leak your one drop on turn 4?), bad Card Advantage (SV is not good, AV is not good right now)
Black: Best spell based interaction (Push, TS, IoK, LoTV), some of the best creatures (Tasigur, Angler)
Red: Actually doing exactly what it should with the cards it has (Take 3?)
Green: Best Creatures (Goyf, Heirarch), best card draw/filtering (Ancient Stirrings, Traverse)
Honorary mention for colorless: IMO Broken, but not as concerning (I think TKS and RS are just ridiculous)

Right now there is simply no point in not being BGx because the two best colors are far and away BG. I feel like POD/CoCo and Burn/RDW are the best examples of what the colors should do. Pod(CoCo) wins by interacting with creatures and their abilities, Burn/RDW are exactly what we have seen throughout the years. Taxes is another great example. Older Jund was a great example, where black would help grind the game down and provide incremental card advantage at cost, as green would fight for the win.

Black gets the best disruption, reasonable draw, the best removal and the most efficient creatures. Since that is basically all the supported gameplay, it is no wonder that black is hands down the best colour. But blue can't have a good counter, cause that's not fun.

It's no wonder other colours are struggling to find identities, black has all the best cards in the supported play styles - a trend that shows not sign of slowing.

I play Knightfall so I'm very on-board with creature bashing being valid gameplay. But making it the only game-play is a problem.

I take exception to the idea that counterspells are unfun - I think they are really fun! Counter wars are some of the most compelling gameplay for myself, so the idea that counterspells are objectively unfun is simply wrong. Maybe a majority of people find it unfun, which is fine. But some people finding something unfun doesn't need to dictate what is printed - that thinking leads down a dark path where we cut any gameplay that a subset of players finds 'unfun', artificially limiting the diversity of strategies available. We saw this with land destruction, and now counterspells. How long until they come for your discard?

If you think it's fair that black gets the most powerful disruption every set while blue/white gets basically nothing for answers, then we're going to have to disagree about what makes the game 'unfun'. Unfun to me is when one archtype/colour continually benefits from the best cards set after set.

Yeah, we wouldn't want someone's cards/draw steps to be taken before they can use them.

This double standard where black gets to take your cards before you can play them but blue can't take them before they resolve is tiresome. Maybe we should just all complain that having your hand ripped apart is also 'feel bad' and no one should be allowed to play discard spells?

[sarcasm]We'll just get rid of all disruption, and then everyone can play out their 60 threat decks and bash across the red zone. [/sarcasm]