This is my first modern deck I've built. I've done some basic play testing with it so far and it seems pretty decent. Please feel free to comment and suggest.
ps. I don't have any fetch lands atm due to availability and price. Will be acquiring them soon as its feasible.
pps. I don't have a sideboard atm though it would mostly consist of hate cards for bad matchups. (like Torpor orb, Supreme Verdict, Stony Silence, etc)
So i cut the Boros Reckoner i dont think they were doing enough, against mono red striker was a problem, and since i added chained and magma jets i think i can survive.
Against mono blue he was getting tapped.
Espeth vs aurelia, i found that i never had many creatures on the board and since i cut the reckoners, elspeth is a bether stabilizer with both abilitys.
Pack rats, i didn't know what to put in their place, with 20 removal, discard, i dont thinkg it's needed more removal, and we can scry 16 cards, so we can find what we need, pack rat demands a removal and its a turn 2 creature that can block early turn vs mono red, also discards excessive lands, whip and creatures to whip back.
RtB 2 is right because i don't want to see too many of them, thoughseize needs to be 3 to answer the mono blue and black, thassa is a really pain.
the sideboard needs some work, thoughts?
Have you thought of using Sin Collector?
It strips a spell from their hand and provides a 2/1 body.
Is there any reason you're not running Devour Flesh main?
I'd personally cut 1 Anger and 1 Dreadbore for 2 Devour
Sideboard:
Have you thought of putting in Boros Charms?
All three modes are active in this deck.
How is Assemble the Legion for you?
Personally I never found it to be very effective, our other threats just do more and synergize with Whip
How do you deal with Aetherling?
Just hope you thoughtsieze or slaughter games it before it comes into play? Pithing Needle should be at least 1 of in sideboard to deal with that monster
-2 Aurelia
-3 Read the bones
+2 Hero downfall
+3 Magma Jet
Aurelia and RtB don't do much vs agro or devotion decks and having them in your open can be auto mulls. Another card which is weak in these match ups is key rune. Not sure what you would really want in its place though. Maybe some more 2 CMC removal spells. It is so important to kill Nightveil in the devotion match ups, Maybe Lightening Strike.
I personally love +3 Magma Jet
What I don't like about the list is -2 Aurelia and -3 RTB
Aurelia: She can simply close out a game you're never intended to win. I personally run only 1 Aurelia and I've NEVER been sad seeing her after the first 4 turns.
As for RTB I'd personally not cut any or maybe cut 1 if you're having issues keeping your life total up. The ability to look at 4 potential cards for only 2 life is insanely high value. Even with Magma Jet to help smooth your draws out you're going to start running low on cards when you're 1 for 1 removal a lot of the time.
I dont think anything changed, gideon is still a terrible card, i really dont understand how it has any value vs aggro decks. By turn 4 a X/X that cant even block doesnt seem really threatening, it would be different if he had the old gideons ability to wall you, but he doesnt. You can pump him as much as you want, he cant block and can be chump blocked easily.
He may be decent agaisnt Rg, or other midrange decks, but agaisnt aggro? Dont think so.
Well if an aggro deck doesn't deal with gideon what is to stop him from ulting in a few turns and simply auto winning the game from this point?
Even if aggro does decide to focus all their damage at me. I figure I'll most likely have a reckoner out, which can 2 for 1 their attack.
I also figure I'll have enough removal that they're not going to be able to flat out kill me in only a few turns.
Also generally if you can make it turn 4 or 5 vs an aggro deck they've already lost enough momentum that they're not going to be able to kill you, and they'll have to focus on gideon. Which then saves you life.
This is all my own opinion and its possibly more biased towards using Gideon than not using.
Please don't come in to this thread if you're gonna bring negativity, thanks.
Secondly,
Gideon became a lot better because of all the hyper aggro decks. You can profitability trade his +1 with their damage because most of their creatures are 1/1 or 2/2s. If they waste time swinging into him its free turns, if they ignore him they can walk into misplays or big lifepoint swings.
A lot of other decks are playing a lot of creature removal with few downfalls. Downfall is the only way to take him out and outside of Esper/Mono Black the card is only seeing 1/2 of them in most lists.
Like any other planeswalker if they Dpshere him, so be it, while control isn't gideon's best application it is still good in plenty of matchups.
Also the reason you got shot down for Gideon was that you brought it up in reference to Mono Blue, a matchup where you won't see much value out of Gideon because of Cyclonic Rift and that you won't be able to race 8 2/1 elementals etc with a board of whatever else they have.
That is fine and obviously vs mono blue it isn't the best option. The idea overall was the explain that Gideon isn't a bad option right now with lots of small creatures running around. Mono blue was just a new thing and well lots of small tokens will help improve how quickly he builds, that was my basis on suggesting him.
I just wish that people would have at least though about it and put actual discussion into it since I did try to make a well informed post about why I think he's decent.
Anyways I'm glad people are at least willing to discuss him now, I'm just a little frustrated that I was so quickly brushed aside.
Pros:
- Forces opponent to deal with before ult (builds quick vs tokens)
- Immune to verdict
- Indestructible X/X
- Alternative Win Con
Cons:
- Glare Of Heresy
- Can be Chump Blocked
- Doesn't have direct immediate impact
Gideon is AWFUL. If you +1 for any meaningful amount the opponent then swings into him and kills him. I am sick of people throwing Gideon into every deck that has white, STOP, he is bad.
I tried bringing up Gideon earlier and got shot down rather aggressively. What has really changed in about a month?
This is the first place list. The others can be found on the right.
Of the top and what I like.
Double keyrune... 24 land. Once I reach 5-6 land it's all I seem to top deck, I like this idea a lot.
4 Blood baron which I have already begun to run because of Junk running around where I play, unfortunately I wasn't able to go play in the CA states but I'm ready for gameday.
Aurelia is another common in thier creature base. Give them a look over.
They all seem to be running Warleaders Helix. I personally don't know how I feel about this card.
Sure the extra lifegain is nice but it really is only 4 life for 4 mana. 4 damage isn't enough to kill many creatures, or planeswalkers.
I personally run 2x Boros Charms that used to be Warleaders in my deck. I find the Boros Charm offers more utility and is overall more beneficial.
The TCG Silver had 3 BWR in the top 4 of the event.
Something to take note of would be the lack of Desecration Demon in all 3 of those lists. It also looks like an otherwise aggressive/midrange field and not a field of control, where Desecration Demon is not his strongest.
This brings me back to the discussion of BWR trying to do what BW and BR do at the same time and falling short, rather than just doing it's own thing, like these 3 lists did.
Something to think about.
Can you please link the lists for reference so we can see what kind of things they're running and 'doing their own thing'
Anyways... my point was there is a lot of creatures on the board at the moment so it seems like the best possible time to at least try out Gideon, Champion of Justice and see how it reacts. Just because a card was bad before doesn't mean it always has to be bad.
What's wrong with Gray Merchant of Asphodel? Seems like an easy inclusion to me since it'll be available in the near future and a playset will only cost you like 50 cents. It's a Black lifegain Zombie in a Black "drain" Zombie deck.
There's nothing wrong with him besides the fact that I currently do not have him. Though I will as soon as I pickup my Theros box at end of the month.
Seems like a good card and he should do well in my deck.
Edit: I already have three thragtusk plus all the dual lands for BUG so that's why I was simply thinking about doing it, but I'm happy to keep it simply B/U
So after doing actual play testing yesterday, I want to add thragtusk.
I need more life gain as I ended up grinding down my own life enough with Phyrexian Reclamation and Gnawing zombie didn't do enough to keep me out of the red zone.
Thragtusk seems like my best option for life gain, since he can keep coming back into play and leaves a body when I sac it.
I currently don't see an option in blue that will be as powerful as thragtusk. Please feel free to suggest stuff and I'll see if I can acquire it.
I did have a good bit of fun plays though. I Vapor Snagged a Progenitor Mimic, swung with my lifebane zombie. Sacced it, then brought it back to my hand to play it and exile the Mimic, all on the same turn. Ohh it felt good.
This is my first modern deck I've built. I've done some basic play testing with it so far and it seems pretty decent. Please feel free to comment and suggest.
3x Godless Shrine
3x Watery Grave
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Seachrome Coast
3x Drowned Catacomb
3x Isolated Chapel
2x Glacial Fortress
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Eiganjo Castle
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Swamp
1x Island
1x Plains
4x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tidehollow Sculler
Spells: (Instant/Sorcery)
4x Lingering Souls
3x Mana Leak
3x ThoughtSeize
3x Path to Exile
2x Disfigure
2x Mortify
2x Devour Flesh
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Dismember
1x Smother
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Sword of Body and Mind
ps. I don't have any fetch lands atm due to availability and price. Will be acquiring them soon as its feasible.
pps. I don't have a sideboard atm though it would mostly consist of hate cards for bad matchups. (like Torpor orb, Supreme Verdict, Stony Silence, etc)
Have you thought of using Sin Collector?
It strips a spell from their hand and provides a 2/1 body.
Is there any reason you're not running Devour Flesh main?
I'd personally cut 1 Anger and 1 Dreadbore for 2 Devour
Sideboard:
Have you thought of putting in Boros Charms?
All three modes are active in this deck.
How is Assemble the Legion for you?
Personally I never found it to be very effective, our other threats just do more and synergize with Whip
How do you deal with Aetherling?
Just hope you thoughtsieze or slaughter games it before it comes into play?
Pithing Needle should be at least 1 of in sideboard to deal with that monster
I personally love +3 Magma Jet
What I don't like about the list is -2 Aurelia and -3 RTB
Aurelia: She can simply close out a game you're never intended to win. I personally run only 1 Aurelia and I've NEVER been sad seeing her after the first 4 turns.
As for RTB I'd personally not cut any or maybe cut 1 if you're having issues keeping your life total up. The ability to look at 4 potential cards for only 2 life is insanely high value. Even with Magma Jet to help smooth your draws out you're going to start running low on cards when you're 1 for 1 removal a lot of the time.
Well if an aggro deck doesn't deal with gideon what is to stop him from ulting in a few turns and simply auto winning the game from this point?
Even if aggro does decide to focus all their damage at me. I figure I'll most likely have a reckoner out, which can 2 for 1 their attack.
I also figure I'll have enough removal that they're not going to be able to flat out kill me in only a few turns.
Also generally if you can make it turn 4 or 5 vs an aggro deck they've already lost enough momentum that they're not going to be able to kill you, and they'll have to focus on gideon. Which then saves you life.
This is all my own opinion and its possibly more biased towards using Gideon than not using.
That is fine and obviously vs mono blue it isn't the best option. The idea overall was the explain that Gideon isn't a bad option right now with lots of small creatures running around. Mono blue was just a new thing and well lots of small tokens will help improve how quickly he builds, that was my basis on suggesting him.
I just wish that people would have at least though about it and put actual discussion into it since I did try to make a well informed post about why I think he's decent.
Anyways I'm glad people are at least willing to discuss him now, I'm just a little frustrated that I was so quickly brushed aside.
I tried bringing up Gideon earlier and got shot down rather aggressively. What has really changed in about a month?
They all seem to be running Warleaders Helix. I personally don't know how I feel about this card.
Sure the extra lifegain is nice but it really is only 4 life for 4 mana. 4 damage isn't enough to kill many creatures, or planeswalkers.
I personally run 2x Boros Charms that used to be Warleaders in my deck. I find the Boros Charm offers more utility and is overall more beneficial.
Can you please link the lists for reference so we can see what kind of things they're running and 'doing their own thing'
Pros:
- Forces opponent to deal with before ult (builds quick vs tokens)
- Immune to verdict
- Indestructible X/X
- Alternative Win Con
Cons:
- Glare Of Heresy
- Can be Chump Blocked
- Doesn't have direct immediate impact
The only deck I lost any games to was U/W/R
Game 1 (2-0) vs Izzet Pyromancer
Game 2 (2-0) vs G/W Agro
Game 3 (1-2) U/W/R
4x Blood Crypt
4x Godless Shrine
4x Sacred Foundry
3x Temple of Silence
3x Temple of Triumph
1x Mutavault
2x Swamp
3x Mountain
1x Plains
Creatures [12]
4x Boros Reckoner
2x Sin Collector
3x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
1x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Whip of Erbos
1x Heliod, God of the Sun
Spells [21]
3x Thoughseize
4x Magma Jet
2x Dreadbore
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Doom Blade
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Read The Bones
2x Rakdos's Return
1x Gideon, Champion of Justice
1x Slaughter Games
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Wear/Tear
2x Lifebane Zombie
2x Glare of Heresy
2x Merciless Eviction
2x Sin Collector
2x Assemble of Legion
4x Watery Grave
4x Drowned Catacomb
8x Swamp
1x Island
2x Mutavault
1x Cavern of Souls
3x Evolving Wilds
Creatures
4x Gravecrawler
2x Gnawing Zombie
2x Phantasmal Image
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Diregraf Captain
2x Lifebane Zombie
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Grimgrin, Corspe-Burn
1x Shadowborn Demon
2x Phyrexian Reclamation
2x Liliana of the Veil
Instants/Sorcery's
1x Killing Wave
1x Vapor Snag
2x Think Twice
1x Forbidden Alchemy
2x Slaughter Pact
1x Barter in Blood
2x Mutilate
2x Far/Away
Testing out 1 Forbidden Alchemy to see how it works
I really like the current decklist I personally would want 3 Warleaders Helix, a 2nd Obzedat. I would cut 1 Dreadbore, and 1 Read the Bones.
I'm curious why you're not running Thoughseize. Is it because you're running Read the Bones and you don't want to burn your self down to much?
There's nothing wrong with him besides the fact that I currently do not have him. Though I will as soon as I pickup my Theros box at end of the month.
Seems like a good card and he should do well in my deck.
Edit: I already have three thragtusk plus all the dual lands for BUG so that's why I was simply thinking about doing it, but I'm happy to keep it simply B/U
I need more life gain as I ended up grinding down my own life enough with Phyrexian Reclamation and Gnawing zombie didn't do enough to keep me out of the red zone.
Thragtusk seems like my best option for life gain, since he can keep coming back into play and leaves a body when I sac it.
I currently don't see an option in blue that will be as powerful as thragtusk. Please feel free to suggest stuff and I'll see if I can acquire it.
I did have a good bit of fun plays though. I Vapor Snagged a Progenitor Mimic, swung with my lifebane zombie. Sacced it, then brought it back to my hand to play it and exile the Mimic, all on the same turn. Ohh it felt good.