I hear you on the 4th colour of mana, Scasseden, but I'm going to persevere with it. I'm playing 2 x stubborn denial, 2 x negate and 2 x disdainful stroke in the 75, with a 4/2 mix across the main deck/ sideboard. I think that's plenty. So I'm not relying on blue showing up in any given game, just making good use of it when a counter does show up, to eke out an edge upon which I can usually capitalise upon with our superior creatures. Our primary game plan is aggression - turning creatures sideways. I tune across from less valuable removal to counters and put all six in when facing the coco, rally, ramp, disruption and controlling decks that can overcome us given enough time to stabilise, but I don't take out 4cmc or less creatures to bring them in, just the roc when he is less useful.
Duress is fairly useful as a couple, but I'm toying with taking out the third for an infinite obliteration - especially for a couple of decks in my meta that have a play set of a particular card that is back breaking for me. One guy plays Coco without Rally for instance. Another relies hugely on four Gideons. And so forth.
Went 5-0 to win my FNM with Scassesen's Abzan blue deck. I made a couple of changes. One Wingmate Roc main deck in exchange for one less counter. Also the sideboard was slightly different as I chose to go with a single virulent plague, a tasigur and two hallowed moonlight.
I kept the mana exactly the same. And sure enough on two occasions I mulliganed owing to not drawing untapped green in my opening seven. That said I do agree that this is as good a land mix as is presently possible in standard.
On a couple of occasions I wished for another creature or two in the deck, so I think 19 with 2 man lands is a tad light. This was especially true against a disruptive BW Eldrazi deck that took all three creature cards out of my opening hand with despise and transgress the mind in the first four turns. Similarly, a BR Dragons deck used burn to take out my warden and advocate in turns one and two of the first game of the final. Thanking goodness I top-decked Anafenza and could pump her out of burn range with Dromokas Command and Abzan Charm.
The narrowest win of the night though was a 2-1 in the third round against a mono-White mid-range deck tricked out with play sets of Gideon, Archanel of Tithes, monastery Mentors and consul's Lieutenants. It murdered me in the first and no less than eight cards from the sideboard were necessary to help me squeak the second and third games. I won the last game while on a single life.
I'm also trying to find a workable mana pool that will allow for a playset of Warden of the First Tree, can include a couple of stubborn denial in the main board and will accommodate a man-land or two.
If I've worked it out right, there's presently 18 green sources, of which 13 are untapped on first turn. I've included an island so that I can play stubborn denial technically from turn one (acknowledging that I do want to be playing Warden first turn if at all possible, but also not wanting the frustration of having no immediate access to U owing to all the sources entering tapped).
I guess we could consider the Caves of Koilos and Shambling Vents flex spots, depending on whether the preference is for some man-lands or greater access to colourless mana.
A potential problem in this mix is that there are 10 fetchlands and only 9 lands that can be fetched. Not sure yet how big an issue that could be. Views?
NoSB has been good against the swarm decks. Infect, merfolk, elves, slivers, goblins and tokens are all disrupted by it to some extent, but if they can get one or two 2/2 creatures on the board then they can build from there. Merfolk and Slivers both have 2/2 creatures that give +1/+1 to all others of the type, so against them, NoSB becomes less useful than a damnation, engineered explosives, crime/punishment, etc.
In the main deck, I want to squeeze in a third Stirring Wildwood. I find the 3/4 body and g/w mana making to be preferable to Treetop Village. The Scoozes are really useful, but are somewhat conditional, and could perhaps go to the sideboard to make room for a third Fulminator Mage and a second Thragtusk, or perhaps a Geralf's Messenger?
Crime/Punishment is probably my pet card. I find it really useful, more for its partial sweeper quality than for its grave-robbing, though having both options available is great and I have used both sides.
Other possibles include Voice of Resurgence, which I've had in the deck in the past (see page 4 of the present thread) but which I find does best in situations where you can expect to commonly have three or more creatures in play at once. It does limit your opponent's activity in your turn, too, so it can come in from the sideboard usefully against control.
I have played with Strangleroot Geist in the past, but find that the GG requirement slows me down a little too much in this build.
I was generally pleased with the sideboard as every card got subbed in at some stage of the tournament. However, I can't help wondering whether NOSB could be better as something else, because it forces me to take out the STEs and lingering souls as well as the witness. Maybe Rising Miasma or similar? Or Engineered Explosives?
I've been playing this deck on and off for years, and continue to follow and enjoy this thread. My current iteration of the deck uses Abzan colours, though the white is not much more than a splash for lingering souls, Abzan charm and stirring wildwood in the main deck. I suppose you could include the four kitchen finks too. In the sideboard there is also a pair of stony silences.
Yesterday I finished second in a small local modern tournament. Went 3-0-1 to finish first in the Swiss, then won my semi and lost in the final to a merfolk deck. Strange, because on paper I'd back this deck against fish every time. On the way to the top 4 I played against infect, a discard brew, slivers and a black recursion deck. The slivers match up was a slow grind that ended up a draw as it went to time.
In the final, I was quickly overwhelmed by the horde, having two death clouds in my hand instead of the fan nations I needed. After sideboard I had access to 2 night of souls betrayal, 3 damnation, a golgari charm, a crime/punishment, 2 choke and never saw one of them. So the second game went much the same way.
Other posters have noted a need for a means to draw cards. I now agree. I believe Abzan charm can fill the role to some extent and adds the benefit of extra removal or buffing options. At the moment I'm only using one charm but am looking to add at least one more, maybe two.
Hats off to TBuzzsaw and the blue Abzan deck he posted earlier in the week. I changed a few cards in the sideboard and added one shambling vents to replace the Caves of Koilos and went 4-0 to win an 18-player FNM with it.
Heir felt good all night and was problematic for opponents. Least useful was Gideon. 3 copies in the deck and I didn't get to play him once.
Using a list 6 cards from that of TBuzzsaw, I finished 3rd at Games Day, going 3-1-1 in the Swiss, beating WB Allies in the Quarter final, then losing to a more controlling version of Abzan in the semis.
The semi-final match could have gone either way, finishing 2-1. The guy who beat me went on to win the tournament. Five of the top 8 decks were packing rhinos.
Looking forward, I think the megamorph package remains a strong contender. I plan to reduce hangarback walkers to two (owing to it being unwelcome in multiples) take out Nyssa completely and incorporate a sweeper, probably tragic arrogance in the main. I think the volume of grindy matches justifies a plan that includes exploiting the raptor graveyard recursion as well as favouring the sweeper`s caster.
Tragic arrogance works nicely with a deck packing artifact creatures and is I think the most synergistic of the 5cc sweepers with megamorphs.
Just read through this thread and wanted to congratulate Scasseden on a job well done.
One point on the value of Hangarback Walker in response to the suggestion that it is not as useful as other creatures promoted here. I don't think we should ignore the value of a non-morph creature that acts as a magnet for the opposition's exile-effect spells.
I played Abzan Megamorph last FNM, going 5-0 to win the event and in one match faced a guy who wasted his abzan charms on my rhinos and hangar backs. This left the mega morphs free to do their thing and roll over him. I believe that will happen repeatedly until players start packing multiple exile effect spells beyond just charm and silkwrap. Right now that's not happening in my meta.
I played a version of the Abzan Megamorph deck at FNM in a 21-player, five round tournament and won, going 5-0 (2-0, 2-0, 2-0, 2-1, 2-0).
The deck was incomplete as silkwraps and 2 x Gideon had not arrived in the post and I was forced to play a motley assortment of not enough fetch lands (4 x heath, 1 x foothills, 1 x polluted delta and a bloodstained mire) supporting tango lands and manlands in order to reduce but not minimise the number of CITP tapped lands. So, this was not an optimal build.
Across all five matches, some themes emerged:
I played against one mid-range and four aggro decks, three of which utilised allies, rally, prowess and/or reknown. In each case, the aggro opponent sought to establish a superior creature-based presence in the first three or four turns and overwhelm me. I never faced red or blue. Accomplished control players were present, but kept losing to aggro decks, sometimes piloted by less experienced opponents.
In each match, the longer the game went, the greater my chances of winning became. This was down to the recursion effects from the megamorph suite and the late game bombs of 2 x wingmate roc and 2 x nissa. 3 x Shambling Vents were useful contributors but never really became game changers, except when I had planar outburst played against me and they could stall and chip away until I could recurse megamorphs.
My one game loss occurred against a mono-white horde when I could not present an adequate defence in the early turns.
No one had exile effect cards for my hangarback walkers or megamorph creatures except the mid-range opponent who made the mistake of wasting abzan charms against my rhinos.
Forced to play 2 x Sorin and 1 x Gideon main deck, I found Sorin's lifelink and +1/+0 more useful than any other Planeswalker ability owing to how often I was forced into the early defensive role. Now thinking about sticking with this mix and a second gideon in the sideboard for slower match-ups.
Anafenza's value remains solid. I was playing two copies main deck and she seriously stalled the aggro decks she faced, coming down on turn three as a 4/4. In aggressive mode, her synergy with the other creatures, especially face-up den protector and walker is splendid.
Opponents actually groaned when I played a warden on turn 1, which wasn't often enough as I only had two main deck and a third in the side. In future, once I've fixed the mana with more fetch lands, I'll play four in the 75.
When sideboarding, I actually found myself routinely taking out a copy of rhino, a roc (sometimes both)in order to bring in more cheap removal and the third warden. Didn't face any red or true control so hand disruption, the dragonlord and surge of righteousness never entered the 60. Tragic Arrogance was super impactive, particularly in the second game of the final match in which, I was at 11 life and the opposition on 4 but threatening to overrun, it took out an archangel of tithes, a seeker of the ways and a monastery mentor to leave a solitary monk token facing my (suddenly unblockable) 3/2 den protector and a thopter token. Attack for exactly lethal damage, the match and the tournament followed.
2 x Nissa were useful mana fixing and did flip once, but also attracted more removal spells than proportionate to the threat she actually presented. Given that den protector can bring her back from the graveyard after the seven land threshold has been reached, I'd say she continues to justify her place.
I went 3-0 against a small and inexperienced field to win my FNM. Never lost a game, but did have one match against a red/colourless Eldrazi brew that at least tested some of my deck choices.
Like TBuzzsaw, I played 2 x Nyssa in the three-drop slot, and once again never managed to flip her. Yes, she got me the important extra forest each time she showed, but in the combat stakes she was never a player. I'm doubtful about keeping her, and may well go to Drana and/or Drana's Emissary.
Something I am sure about is that 4 x Deathdealer is too many. In multiples he was problematic because he didn't add any options to the available plays, especially when the opponent had hangarback walkers out. I'd rather have drawn a creature with some form of evasion. I'm reducing him to two for the time being and might put another in the sideboard for control. How many two-drop creatures are people preferring in the aggro and mid-range shells? I'm now thinking that 8 may be enough so that I can expand the number of three-drop creatures slightly, perhaps to 7 or 8.
Languish sat in my hand unused too many times, and I was always happier to see Tragic Arrogance than it, though I never actually used a sweeper all night. The mention of Duneblast strikes a chord, though.
I do feel that Wingmate Roc still deserves a place, mainly because WW3 and the raid trigger are easily attained, bringing great value without loss of tempo.
I don't think Scythe Leopard remains useful beyond turn four or five. After that it just won't matter because there will commonly be 4/5's and bigger on the field and no amount of shenanigans with Evolving Wilds or fetchlands will bridge the power gap.
Emeria Shepherd's casting cost makes her a bystander in your hand until too late in the game, by which time a 4/4 flyer is under-powered and anyway there are cheaper ways of getting stuff back from the graveyard.
On the other hand, the flexibilty of Endless One and the resilience of Bloodsoaked Champion both have a lot of appeal in an aggressive deck.
For hand disruption, I'm thinking hard about despise in the main because it takes creatures and planeswalkers and they're the two card types that I'm most fearful of in general. My meta has tended to be mainly creature-based decks with only a smattering of burn and control.
Like many, I'm seriously considering moving across to the aggro build. A question that crops up in the builds I've seen so far is, why 4 x Anafenza? She's legendary. Doesn't this mean that you can find yourself with redundant cards in your hand?
I get that she's vulnerable to removal, is something of a must-kill for the opponent and often doesn't stay on the battlefield for long, but are we saying that with four copies in the deck she's never a wasted card?
Duress is fairly useful as a couple, but I'm toying with taking out the third for an infinite obliteration - especially for a couple of decks in my meta that have a play set of a particular card that is back breaking for me. One guy plays Coco without Rally for instance. Another relies hugely on four Gideons. And so forth.
I kept the mana exactly the same. And sure enough on two occasions I mulliganed owing to not drawing untapped green in my opening seven. That said I do agree that this is as good a land mix as is presently possible in standard.
On a couple of occasions I wished for another creature or two in the deck, so I think 19 with 2 man lands is a tad light. This was especially true against a disruptive BW Eldrazi deck that took all three creature cards out of my opening hand with despise and transgress the mind in the first four turns. Similarly, a BR Dragons deck used burn to take out my warden and advocate in turns one and two of the first game of the final. Thanking goodness I top-decked Anafenza and could pump her out of burn range with Dromokas Command and Abzan Charm.
The narrowest win of the night though was a 2-1 in the third round against a mono-White mid-range deck tricked out with play sets of Gideon, Archanel of Tithes, monastery Mentors and consul's Lieutenants. It murdered me in the first and no less than eight cards from the sideboard were necessary to help me squeak the second and third games. I won the last game while on a single life.
Here's where I've got to:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Yavimaya Coast
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Canopy Vista
1 Prairie Stream
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Shambling Vents
If I've worked it out right, there's presently 18 green sources, of which 13 are untapped on first turn. I've included an island so that I can play stubborn denial technically from turn one (acknowledging that I do want to be playing Warden first turn if at all possible, but also not wanting the frustration of having no immediate access to U owing to all the sources entering tapped).
I guess we could consider the Caves of Koilos and Shambling Vents flex spots, depending on whether the preference is for some man-lands or greater access to colourless mana.
A potential problem in this mix is that there are 10 fetchlands and only 9 lands that can be fetched. Not sure yet how big an issue that could be. Views?
-1 Maelstrom Pulse
-2 Scavenging Ooze
-1 Thoughtseize
+1 Inquisition of Kozilek
+1 Geralf's Messenger
+1 Thragtusk
+1 Abzan Charm
Will report further when I've had chance to test.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Marsh Flats
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Godless Shrine
2 Canopy Vista
1 Windswept Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
Creatures: 14
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Fulminator Mage
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Spells: 17
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Abzan Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Lingering Souls
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Crime/ Punishment
3 Death Cloud
2 Damnation
1 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm
2 Stony Silence
1 Lingering Souls
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Dismember
1 Crypt Incursion
2 Choke
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Damnation
1 Leyline of the Void
In the main deck, I want to squeeze in a third Stirring Wildwood. I find the 3/4 body and g/w mana making to be preferable to Treetop Village. The Scoozes are really useful, but are somewhat conditional, and could perhaps go to the sideboard to make room for a third Fulminator Mage and a second Thragtusk, or perhaps a Geralf's Messenger?
Crime/Punishment is probably my pet card. I find it really useful, more for its partial sweeper quality than for its grave-robbing, though having both options available is great and I have used both sides.
Other possibles include Voice of Resurgence, which I've had in the deck in the past (see page 4 of the present thread) but which I find does best in situations where you can expect to commonly have three or more creatures in play at once. It does limit your opponent's activity in your turn, too, so it can come in from the sideboard usefully against control.
I have played with Strangleroot Geist in the past, but find that the GG requirement slows me down a little too much in this build.
I was generally pleased with the sideboard as every card got subbed in at some stage of the tournament. However, I can't help wondering whether NOSB could be better as something else, because it forces me to take out the STEs and lingering souls as well as the witness. Maybe Rising Miasma or similar? Or Engineered Explosives?
Yesterday I finished second in a small local modern tournament. Went 3-0-1 to finish first in the Swiss, then won my semi and lost in the final to a merfolk deck. Strange, because on paper I'd back this deck against fish every time. On the way to the top 4 I played against infect, a discard brew, slivers and a black recursion deck. The slivers match up was a slow grind that ended up a draw as it went to time.
In the final, I was quickly overwhelmed by the horde, having two death clouds in my hand instead of the fan nations I needed. After sideboard I had access to 2 night of souls betrayal, 3 damnation, a golgari charm, a crime/punishment, 2 choke and never saw one of them. So the second game went much the same way.
Other posters have noted a need for a means to draw cards. I now agree. I believe Abzan charm can fill the role to some extent and adds the benefit of extra removal or buffing options. At the moment I'm only using one charm but am looking to add at least one more, maybe two.
Heir felt good all night and was problematic for opponents. Least useful was Gideon. 3 copies in the deck and I didn't get to play him once.
The semi-final match could have gone either way, finishing 2-1. The guy who beat me went on to win the tournament. Five of the top 8 decks were packing rhinos.
Looking forward, I think the megamorph package remains a strong contender. I plan to reduce hangarback walkers to two (owing to it being unwelcome in multiples) take out Nyssa completely and incorporate a sweeper, probably tragic arrogance in the main. I think the volume of grindy matches justifies a plan that includes exploiting the raptor graveyard recursion as well as favouring the sweeper`s caster.
Tragic arrogance works nicely with a deck packing artifact creatures and is I think the most synergistic of the 5cc sweepers with megamorphs.
One point on the value of Hangarback Walker in response to the suggestion that it is not as useful as other creatures promoted here. I don't think we should ignore the value of a non-morph creature that acts as a magnet for the opposition's exile-effect spells.
I played Abzan Megamorph last FNM, going 5-0 to win the event and in one match faced a guy who wasted his abzan charms on my rhinos and hangar backs. This left the mega morphs free to do their thing and roll over him. I believe that will happen repeatedly until players start packing multiple exile effect spells beyond just charm and silkwrap. Right now that's not happening in my meta.
The deck was incomplete as silkwraps and 2 x Gideon had not arrived in the post and I was forced to play a motley assortment of not enough fetch lands (4 x heath, 1 x foothills, 1 x polluted delta and a bloodstained mire) supporting tango lands and manlands in order to reduce but not minimise the number of CITP tapped lands. So, this was not an optimal build.
Across all five matches, some themes emerged:
I played against one mid-range and four aggro decks, three of which utilised allies, rally, prowess and/or reknown. In each case, the aggro opponent sought to establish a superior creature-based presence in the first three or four turns and overwhelm me. I never faced red or blue. Accomplished control players were present, but kept losing to aggro decks, sometimes piloted by less experienced opponents.
In each match, the longer the game went, the greater my chances of winning became. This was down to the recursion effects from the megamorph suite and the late game bombs of 2 x wingmate roc and 2 x nissa. 3 x Shambling Vents were useful contributors but never really became game changers, except when I had planar outburst played against me and they could stall and chip away until I could recurse megamorphs.
My one game loss occurred against a mono-white horde when I could not present an adequate defence in the early turns.
No one had exile effect cards for my hangarback walkers or megamorph creatures except the mid-range opponent who made the mistake of wasting abzan charms against my rhinos.
Forced to play 2 x Sorin and 1 x Gideon main deck, I found Sorin's lifelink and +1/+0 more useful than any other Planeswalker ability owing to how often I was forced into the early defensive role. Now thinking about sticking with this mix and a second gideon in the sideboard for slower match-ups.
Anafenza's value remains solid. I was playing two copies main deck and she seriously stalled the aggro decks she faced, coming down on turn three as a 4/4. In aggressive mode, her synergy with the other creatures, especially face-up den protector and walker is splendid.
Opponents actually groaned when I played a warden on turn 1, which wasn't often enough as I only had two main deck and a third in the side. In future, once I've fixed the mana with more fetch lands, I'll play four in the 75.
When sideboarding, I actually found myself routinely taking out a copy of rhino, a roc (sometimes both)in order to bring in more cheap removal and the third warden. Didn't face any red or true control so hand disruption, the dragonlord and surge of righteousness never entered the 60. Tragic Arrogance was super impactive, particularly in the second game of the final match in which, I was at 11 life and the opposition on 4 but threatening to overrun, it took out an archangel of tithes, a seeker of the ways and a monastery mentor to leave a solitary monk token facing my (suddenly unblockable) 3/2 den protector and a thopter token. Attack for exactly lethal damage, the match and the tournament followed.
2 x Nissa were useful mana fixing and did flip once, but also attracted more removal spells than proportionate to the threat she actually presented. Given that den protector can bring her back from the graveyard after the seven land threshold has been reached, I'd say she continues to justify her place.
Like TBuzzsaw, I played 2 x Nyssa in the three-drop slot, and once again never managed to flip her. Yes, she got me the important extra forest each time she showed, but in the combat stakes she was never a player. I'm doubtful about keeping her, and may well go to Drana and/or Drana's Emissary.
Something I am sure about is that 4 x Deathdealer is too many. In multiples he was problematic because he didn't add any options to the available plays, especially when the opponent had hangarback walkers out. I'd rather have drawn a creature with some form of evasion. I'm reducing him to two for the time being and might put another in the sideboard for control. How many two-drop creatures are people preferring in the aggro and mid-range shells? I'm now thinking that 8 may be enough so that I can expand the number of three-drop creatures slightly, perhaps to 7 or 8.
Languish sat in my hand unused too many times, and I was always happier to see Tragic Arrogance than it, though I never actually used a sweeper all night. The mention of Duneblast strikes a chord, though.
I do feel that Wingmate Roc still deserves a place, mainly because WW3 and the raid trigger are easily attained, bringing great value without loss of tempo.
Emeria Shepherd's casting cost makes her a bystander in your hand until too late in the game, by which time a 4/4 flyer is under-powered and anyway there are cheaper ways of getting stuff back from the graveyard.
On the other hand, the flexibilty of Endless One and the resilience of Bloodsoaked Champion both have a lot of appeal in an aggressive deck.
For hand disruption, I'm thinking hard about despise in the main because it takes creatures and planeswalkers and they're the two card types that I'm most fearful of in general. My meta has tended to be mainly creature-based decks with only a smattering of burn and control.
I get that she's vulnerable to removal, is something of a must-kill for the opponent and often doesn't stay on the battlefield for long, but are we saying that with four copies in the deck she's never a wasted card?