I have Primal Command in the board now (none main) as it just feels slower than everything else we can do. There are amazing applications (life gain, land "quasi-hate", Shuffling Graveyards back in, etc.) that make the card powerful (as the same card is good against burn, graveyard decks, random mill, etc. but it just doesn't "feel" like a main board card for me in the current meta (although it did well in past metas). MJ seemed to do well with it and Wutness combined.
You are also right about BTL. The applications are seemingly endless :). I've been working on an idea with Grapeshot (given my love of Cloudstone Curio), and it already works to tutor for amazing sideboard options, Harmonize, Eternal Witness, and things like Acidic Slime and even Primal Command! This is not to mention the combo appeal of things like Resto Angel + Kiki-Jiki. For me, however, the trick is making sure to incorporate it flawlessly in the main; as the sideboard you can make it hit I believe potentialy can be the push Green Devktion needed to get to the next level.
And as much as I fool around trying to make a combo deck work in devotion (which I feel I am only a few cards away from); I always advise people to play Tooth and Nail versions of the deck if it fits their play style (as they seem the most powerful currently)...so I think you're in the right spot!
Thanks for posting! Keep us informed on how your deck evolves and how it performs. Everyone here is here for the same reason; we love green devotion and want to make it a viable "tier" deck in as many ways as we can. The more help the better! And it sounds like you have some great thoughts/ideas.
P.S. I've been toying with adding Grapeshot and BTE to my list. The recent discussion of Speed made me think that I should devote a week to trying to find what the "fastest" green devotion cards are. I'm fairly positive that Burning-Tree Emissary is one of them. It's sole goal is to get you to devotion quickly! And to re-trigger Nykthos off a Wave/Hydra, etc. I looked back a Jarvis Woo's Decotion deck (as it also contained Curio) and tried to borrow some ideas from there as well.
Basically, with Curio, if you have 2x BTE you can infinitely bounce/cast them. Grapeshot would be the current finisher (as I can use it with Abundant Growth loops as well); but you can use Purphoros, Impact Tremors, outpost drive, etc. of course, it's also another Bring to Light Target. Since BOTH Grapeshot and BTE are BTL targets; it makes the combo easier to hit. No idea if it works or not; but I'm trying to dedicate this week to trying new ideas and exploring speed and BTL.
If Ojutais Command played a role in those games, i would like to hear some details. I'm a huge fan of this card
Ojutai's Command was really impressive in the abzan matchup so I will post the notes today. I too am a growing fan of this card. Thank you for recommending it. It has really been great thus far.
I did? In the other Delverthread?
Don't leave me hanging 3h until today is over
Sorry it took me so long to get the notes up. I had a busy weekend and the Colts beat the Broncos so we had to celebrate I live in Indy.
Thoughts on the matchup- I actually love this matchup. I have never played a deck that had a generally good matchup against Tron until now. I can't remember the last time I lost to tron. They are very bad against tempo and aggro/control decks so we have an excellent chance against them. Just get an early threat out, protect against Pyroclasm with Boros Charm, Emerge Unscathed, Spell Snare[/c}, Remand, and even Vapor Snag if you have to. We can burn them out most games even if they land a Karn or Ugin.
Game 1 - on the play
Fairly textbook game one against tron. I mulliganed to 6 into a hand of Delver, Swiftspear, a Steam Vents, Bolt, Helix, and Boros Charm. The delver flipped early and I was able to beat him just after he got tron. He ever cast a pyroclasm but my boros charm was at the ready :).
He was able to get tron on turn four so this one was a bit longer. I had early aggression from a Monastery Swiftspear and a Abbot of Keral Keep which got him down to 7 life. However, he landed a turn four Wurmcoil Engine. I was able to Vapor Snag it and Negate the follow up [Ugin, Spirit Dragon[/c] to finish him off.
Round Wrap-up
I don't know if I am just getting lucky against this deck or if the matchup really is heavily in our favor. Having a favorable tron matchup is really a plus when Tron picks up in the meta. Tron has always been fairly cyclical in my opinion because it has a lot of 80/20 and 20/80 matchups (more 80/20's than the latter). All in all there isn't much to say about this matchup. It's pretty straight forward. Go aggro and you should be able to get the victory.
3-0
Jeskai Prowess Tempo vs Abzan "The Rock"
Thoughts on the matchup- I still haven't decided what I think the worst matchup is for our deck in game one, but Abzan is on the short list. Without a quick start, it is nearly impossible to win game 1 if both decks draw evenly and curve out. I have been trying to find small ways to improve this matchup recently. The creation of Abbot of Keral Keep helped us a lot so we have to thank WOTC for that. As I said earlier, I recently added Ojutai's Command to the maindeck and it has really shined in this matchup. Because it's a one of we can't depend on it, but it definitely helped the matchup. I also switched out Spirit Link from the board and added Jeskai Charm. I have heard good things from other Jeskai players about Jeskai charm so I thought I would give it a try. If it doesn't work out, I'm going to give Valorous Stance a shot.
Game 1 - on draw
This was a really strange game. He had an opening hand with two Inquisition of Kozilek and a Thougthsezie so he pretty much stripped my hand of any action by turn two. However, he wasted most of his hand and took some damage off of lands. I drew a turn three Geist of Saint Traft and had a Distortion Strike left over from the hand massacre. Geist did 14 damage over the ensuing two turns. He cast a Seige Rhino and the game looks a little less favorable at that point. Then we draw our the bees knees Ojutai's Command. I drew a card and reanimate a Abbot of Keral Keep who hits a Serum Visions. I was able to put a Path to Exile on top with the Abbot. We now had an answer for the Rhino, a threat and a fairly stocked hand when compared to his hand. The rest of the game was an abbot beat down over two/three turns.
Like most second/third games against Abzan, this game had 10+ turns. Both decks are fairly heavy on removal post board and we kept casting and removing threats. I wish I had written down more of the first 2-6 turns, but it was just trading back and forth. The ending of the game was super interesting and included an interaction I had never even thought of before it happened. It probably won't happen every again. We reached a stated in the game where I was at 7 life and he was at 5 life. We were both had a single card in hand and I had 7 assorted lands he had 9. My card in hand was a Scalding Tarn which I hadn't played to make him think I had something and because I didn't need the land. I top decked Jace on my turn. I used Slayer's Stronghold to give him haste and tapped him to loot. I drew Lightning Bolt. I cast bolt and flash it back for the win.
Round Wrap-up
I will be the first to admit I got very lucky and drew very well in both games, but the cards are in the deck to cast. This is typically an extremely tough matchup in my experience. The Abzan player just grinds us out and the value takes over. Seige Rhino might be my least favorite card ever followed closely by Kitchen Finks. There aren't any cards that make the matchup a ton easier in my mind. I would love to hear everyone suggestions on cards that help this matchup. The cards that really help the matchup are Path to Exile, Ojutai's Command, Abbot of Keral Keep, Snapcaster Mage, Distortion Strike, and Emerge Unscathed. If we don't draw multiples of these cards we have a very tough time winning. The incidental life gain they get and all of the removal makes it's very tough to tempo them out so we have to resort to trying to keep up with their value or going super aggro to kill them before they gain too much life/value.
4-0
All in all I am very pleased with where the deck is right now. I probably won't be tinkering or changing any cards for the remainder of this month to see how the current list performs over an extended period (unless the meta shifts drastically). I'm eagerly awaiting the UR manland and hope it helps our deck become even more potent. Other than that, the only real addition I could hope for is some type of cheap card advantage/deck manipulation spell (maybe Opt), but that may be a pipe dream.
I will also be working on tuning my more midrange version of the deck so I can utilize my Narset The Transcendent and Monastery Mentors :). I will keep you all posted with this deck as well. Thanks as always for reading and join in the discussion. Let me know what you think of my build, the deck type in general, and what 60 cards you think makes up the best Jeskai Prowess strategy in modern? Also what is your tech to help the midrange matchups like Abzan and Jund?
If Ojutais Command played a role in those games, i would like to hear some details. I'm a huge fan of this card
Ojutai's Command was really impressive in the abzan matchup so I will post the notes today. I too am a growing fan of this card. Thank you for recommending it. It has really been great thus far.
My friend and I played about 10 games last night with jeskai prowess and a lingering taxes deck that I've also been building. We played with main decks only, as this is the first time I'd really playtested, so I wanted to get a better handle on game 1 play.
Just a few thoughts:
- I was running 4 delver, 4 snapcaster, 3 geist, 2 abbot, and 1 grim lavamancer as my creature base. I felt the threat density early game was inadequate. There were a number of games where I felt like I was playing with a bad midrange deck, and I found myself wishing I had swiftspears, etc.
- Abbot outperformed my expectations. I was always happy to draw aggression with card advantage stapled to it. Am contemplating cutting either a snapcaster or lavamancer and going up to 3 abbots.
- Geist somewhat underperformed. While it did get a couple of free wins, it was highly dependent on Emerge Unscathed / Distortion Strike, and it never felt great when my first meaningful opportunity to apply pressure was on turn 4 and I was attacking into spirit tokens.
- Slayer's Stronghold is an all-star.
- Inspired by Jeskai Black, I tried a micro-splash for a singleton Kommand (cuz..who can resist the value!?). It ended up being OK, but felt a bit too cute, and drove up the curve too much with geist, snapcaster, and abbots all being effective 3+ drops. This was exacerbated by being matched up against a deck that plays 4 Thalia, so I'm not sure I'm ready to trash this idea completely yet..
Obviously this is just one match up, and i would argue not a great one for us. All in all though, I’m fairly convinced that I either need to be a bit more aggressive, or just play Jeskai Geist. To maintain the spirit of the original deck, I'm convinced that 3-4 swiftspears are a must along with the delvers. I'm tempted to cut geists or relegate them to the board.
This is on of the best posts I have read in a long time. Very in depth and super informative. I pretty much agree with every point you have made.
- I tried the deck without Monastery Swiftspear and it just didn't have the same power. We really need an early threat for the deck to play out at its best potential. Therefore, I feel that swiftspear is a must for the more aggressive or tempo versions of the deck.
- Abbot has been amazing. He truly shines in our toughest matchups (Abzan, Jund, etc) because he provides so much value that we can pick up advantage on them when they typically want to out advantage us. I feel that he is best as a two of in the aggro/contorl tempo versions, but if you lean a bit more midrange because your meta has more abzan, jund, coco, etc I think three would be fine.
- For me, Geist of Saint Traft is one of the pillars of the deck. He is the single best option for a Distortion Strike. With that said, I don't think you want to many of him because he is legendary, because he is a three drop, and because he is really tough for the opponent to remove, . I run two copies. He is best in the blue based matchups (Twin, Grixis, Jeskai midrange/control, etc). He is probably the card they want to see the least on the other side of the board. He is not great in the matchup you played against and I typically side one copy out against Abzan and Zoo because they have so many beaters and Liliana of the Viel. I do think he is a must for my personal version of the deck.
- I'm an really glad to hear you praise Slayer's Stronghold. I have tried to sell people on this card. I actually started playing this because another user just continued to sing it's praises in the WUR delver forums about a year ago. It really helps to sure up our late game and makes every single threat a hasty and large beater. It does stink in your opening hand, but like I always say, it has won me far more games than it has lost me.
- Your comments sound like you have been testing the deck for years, not days. I also tried a fourth color at one point (mine was green), but it just got a little to cute and took away from the stream-lined feel of the deck. I loved having access to cards like Noble Heirarch, Prey Upon, Simic charm, etc, but it made me go crazy with brewing and I diluted the deck way to much.
- I think your final point is partially right. I would suggest cutting one Geist, a snapcaster, and possibly another card or two to get swiftspear into the deck. I only run two snapcasters, but would never fault anyone for running 3-4. I also don't think Jeskai Midrange is a bad choice right now, but there are some metas where the deck can turn into lesser powered midrange option when compared to other midrange options. That's why I lean towards the more tempo based or aggro/control versions of Jeskai Geist. It's a bit more proactive. I have never loved Geist in the Midrange/Control decks because he always seemed like an aggressive card to me, not a late game option because the opponent will have time to get big beefy blockers in the way.
I hope you give the deck another try against a number of the decks in the format and I really hope you keep us posted. It is invaluable to have information like this for other interested players. Let me know where you agree/disagree and I would love to see your entire decklist as well. Thanks so much for posting.
8-2 is stellar Dirtgurgle! You should be super happy with that.
Land destruction sucks :). There are things like Terra Eternal to help along with spreading out the land enchantments (although not sure that would help against Plow Under....); but the problem becomes how much sideboard can you dedicate to anti-land destruction. P.S. I flipped when I first read Trace of Abundance too ;). Damn Shroud. If printed today, it would say Hexproof!
Truly great results! Thanks for posting them. If you could, please re-post your list if you get a chance. It just helps those wanting to play your deck not to have to go back to find it. Once the lists are "set" (as set as they can be); I'll post them to the Primer too; but for now I like the idea of the most updated list being available within only a few pages.
___
I also really took what you said about speed to heart. You Are absolutely right that game one should be "plan A"...ramp and pound. For me. That meant moving the Primal Command to the board (where they probably should be anyways) and adding back a little more speed to the deck...the best bet I think is Elvish Visionary. He helps dig, is great with Curio, and is permanent-based advantage. I've got 6 or so hours to test tomorrow; so I'm gonna try the below list and write out what happens. I honestly think you're suggestion made the difference for me to find the final 3-4 cards needed for the "set" list.
I really like the idea of having a tutor, thing is, I'm seeing limits with my current deck about what I can remove or keep. I'm gonna rethink the whole deck from scratch with bring to light in mind. Like you say, devotion is a powerhouse but it's still a turn 4 win at best, a turn 3 luck win with my Freed From the Real version: I think one of the way to make it more competitve is finding a way to "accelerate" the deck and I actually have some idea that might or might not work, will keep you updated. =)
I love the Freed from the Real idea. If you are focusing on it; there were a few things in the past I tried with it (although I didn't give it nearly enough time/effort like you have). I don't know if any are useable; but I thought I'd provide them just in case.
1. Sheltered Erie + Dryad Arbor + Freed From the Real is also infinite.
2. The Blue transmute cards (Muddle the Mixture and Drifting Phantasm) are good ways to tutor for the pieces in some cases.
3. Obviously, Bloom Tender is another creature that can "go infinite" with FFTR.
Just a few ideas/thoughts.
I totally agree that we are super close with many builds. For me, I know my core of Walkers. Lands, and Enchantments are "set". I still have about 6 "card drawing support" cards I am working on setting in stone (I.e. How many Harmonize are needed? Are Elvish Visionary's a better option given their synergy with Curio and being permanent-based drawing?, do Genesis Waves hit enough?, etc. The other 54-56 cards are set; and the board has been such a huge improvement (even with trying differing ideas out, the "core" and board alone win most games.). I feel pretty confident the list will be "set" tomorrow so I can start filming and playing on-line this week.
I also want to start discussing other's builds in depth. The Bant list, the Enchantment List, the Tooth and Nail lists....there are so many awesome ideas/brews on here that I want to make sure we highlight and discuss. I think many readers would gravitate to different lists and would be interested to see the full spectrum of what Green Devotiin can do!
Notes from this week. We got back on the 4-0 train after a string of 3-1, and I have Ojutai's Command to thank for that. I think the final slot has finally been taken. Here are the notes
Jeskai Prowess Tempo vs Grixis Control
Thoughts on the matchup- This matchup is highly dependent on the particular person's build of Grixis Control. I have found the matchup to be fairly favorable for our deck. If they have a ton of hand destruction/distruption the matchup becomes a lot harder, but lately all of the grixis decks have been running 4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and have taken a slightly more late game approach rather than landing an early delve creature and protecting. This has actually worked out in my favor as I have been able to get out in front of a lot of these decks. I would say this is most likely a coin flip matchup with Jeskai Prowess tempo favored post board.
Game 1 - on draw
This was a very long and grindy style game. We kept removing each other's threats and passing. A couple of Abbot of Keral Keeps and him flooding a little helped me squeak out a win.
I kept a one land hand here and didn't get my second land until turn 3. I did have two delvers and a bolt in my opener so I was able to play the delvers on turns one and two. However, he had answer for both delvers. Abbot was able to hit a land on turn 4 and we had an actual game of magic. However, he out valued me with a Kolaghan's Command, Cryptic Command, and Snapcaster Mage on both Cryptic and Kolaghan's Command on two different turns. I lost another longish game.
Game 3- on play
This one was a very short game. I started with two Monastery Swiftspears and an Abbot of Keral Keep on turn three for a bolt. I was able to protect Swiftspear on turn two with an Emerge Unscathed and basically played the game like burn deck. He was able to land a semi-early Gurmag Angler, but I had the Celestial Purge to remove it and I finished him off with a alpha strike with the remaining Abbot, swiftspear, and Faerie Conclave for the win.
Round Wrap-up
I was happy that I was able to win a slightly more grindy affair in game one and was happy that the deck played out quickly in game three. Game two went as expected if I let the game go too long against this deck because they have the superior top end of the deck. There were no real memorable plays to speak of so we will move on to round two.
1-0
Jeskai Prowess Tempo vs Collected Company Zoo
Thoughts on the matchup- I would consider this one of our more challenging matchups, especially in game 1. Zoo decks can vary greatly, but the collect company version is probably our hardest matchup. They typically can take the aggressive approach or can depend on their value to out grind the opponenet. I typically want to be the aggressor and keep their threats to a minimum in the early game and then finish the game off with reach/burn. I really try to play this matchup as a true tempo matchup. I would call this a 40/60 matchup game one and a 55/45 post board (mainly due to Deflecting Palm.
Game 1 - on draw
This was a very interesting game with a great ending to the game. I was able to bolt and path his early Wild Nactl and Tarmogoyf. I landed a turn three Geist of Saint Traft and he was able to do 14 damage over the next two turns via a Distortion Strike. The turn after I attack with Geist he is wondering why I attacked because that leaves me with a board of Monastery Swiftspear and a tapped Geist of Saint Traft and 10 life. He has no cards in hand but has a board of a 4/5 Tarmogoyf, a 5/5 Knight of the Reliquary, a 3/3 Wild Nactl. He draws a land which lets him attack with Stirring Wildwood as well. He attacks for lethal and I cast Ojutai's Command getting back an Abbot of Keral Keep to block and gaining 4 life. A Geist attack on the following turn finished him off.
This game was not as close as the first game. He had a hand full of 3 and 4 mana spells and I had 1 and 2 mana answers. He only cast a Loxodon Smiter and a Collected Company (netting him a Knight of Reliquary and Kor Firewalker) in the first 4 turns. I cast Path to Exile on a Knight of Reliquary and a Vapor Snag on a Loxodon Smiter for tempo. A Jace, Telepath Unbound was able to -2/0 the Kor Firewalker so that Geist could attack freely to do some damage. That's the first time that interaction has come up. A Snapcaster Mage for Path to Exile cleaned up the Smiter that he re-cast and Geist finished him off.
Round Wrap-up
I was extremely pleased with the decks performance against this deck. The opponent did falter a little to start the game which let my slower hand of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Geist of Saint Traft take over the game, but I am always happy to beat one of these decks. I was really excited to see the interaction of Jace, Telepath Unbound and Kor Firewalker. The firewalker is a thorn in our side so any help we can get is welcome. This interaction may never come up again, but at least we know it can happen.
2-0
The Tron and Abzan notes will be added if anyone wants to see them. I have no problem posting the notes, but don't want to post too many separate posts in a row and I don't want to post a super long post taking up the whole page. If any does want to see the notes please comment/post and let me know and I will post them as well. Thanks for reading and for your help with the deck!
Your post caught my eye in the comments feed, so I had to see what people were saying in one of my old favourite rogue decks. How does your version play?
It looks quite grindy. Are you able to draw an effective gameplan against uninteractive or combo decks?
Curio seems like an odd addition. Is it just for value-bouncing a hydra or witness or something?
I mentioned you a while back as you were the creator/chamption of the "Silver Bullet" version a while back; and Bring to the Light seems like a harken back to the deck (and potentially a way to reinvigorate it given its ability to tutor for both peices of the "combo" and many of the peices already in the deck (not to mention the sideboard implications). The Curio is actually there for a few reasons:
1. The "Walker Combo" - The first is to facilitate the "Walker Combo". If you have a Garruk Wildspeaker and a Cloudstone Curio and you play a Nissa, Wolrdwaker...as long as you have either a single Uotpia Sprawl, Fertile Ground, or Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (basically anything that allows you to create a total amount of mana that is 1-mana greater than the casting cost of the two walkers (in the case of Garruk and Nissa you would need to create 10 mana) AFTER you have utilized both of their mana abilities.
That was probably not the easiest way to explain it; but basically a Curio + two planeswalkers that can create mana = Infinite Mana. It can be done with Xenagos, the Reveler and very interestingly Kiora, the Crashing Wave as well; but I've utilized Nissa, Worldwaker and really not seen a reason to change yet.
The real interesting part is that once you've created infinite mana, you can keep bouncing and triggering the walker...so they act as the infinite mana AND the win-con. With Xenagos, you create infnite 2/2 hasty creatures. With Garruk you create infinite 3/3 tokens...With Karn you exile their entire board...With Kiora you can draw out your deck, etc. In honesty, 90% of the time you hit the combo; you will also have a way to infinitely draw (all it takes is either an Abundant Growth, a Genesis Hydra, an Eternal Witness in most cases, a Harmonize, a Primal Command, a Primeval Titan, or a Bring to the Light). Also (and I'm getting down the rabbit hole here, but I can't help myself), with Garruk and Nissa, if you have a Kessig Wolf Run in play you can infinitely boost every creature on board (including an un-summoning sick land made and untapped by Nissa) to kill on the same turn as well....pretty much once you've hit the combo, 99% of the time you've won that turn.
I have had multiple times (due due Nykthos) where the combo worked with just Garruk and Karn (as Garruk re-triggering Nykthos would make 12+ mana by himself); but I would still advise utilizing another mana-walker for the ease of hitting the combo.
2. The Abundant Growth Loop - With a Clodustone Curio in play, you can bounce any non-artifact permanent. This includes enchantments. In the case of Abundant Growth; it gives us a cheap way to use extra mana to draw extra cards. While it's best with two copies of Abundant Growth, any other enchantment will do; and you can continue bouncing and drawing with Abundant Growth at a cost of G per card! It gets a little complex with Utopia Sprawls (as you want to leave Forests untapped to utilize the same Utopia Sprawls over and over again to make the cost per draw still only 1-mana; but it is not that complicated once you've done it a couple times. It simply allows you to use the cards you are already playing in a devotion deck to increase your devotion/ramp to also draw cards. I could write a ton more about it; but I know you and your level of play; so I have no doubt you already know how it works.
3. Bouncing Witness, Hydra, Finks, Thragtusk, etc. - As you've already stated, anything with an "Enters the Battlefield" effect can be abused with Curio.
The really interesting one is Genesis Hydra. Because of the way Genesis Hydra is worded, the Cloudstone Curio actually enters the battlefield BEFORE the hydra (that's why if the Hydra is countered you still get your revealed permanent)...so Genesis Hydra BOTH finds the Curio AND triggers it I wrote about it above; but often times when you have a good amount of mana, you can literally cast a Hydra to find a Curio, bounce a dork to re-cast to bounce the Curio, then use the Hydra to dig for a Walker (which untaps the mana) bouncing the Hydra again to find another Walker...essentially you can start with an empty board and end with the combo with just Genesis Hydra alone....it doesn't happen often, but it does happen.
You are absolutely right that the most un-interactive game plans are the worst match ups (Infect, Tron to some extent, Twin, etc.). The deck is actually pretty darn fast. Suprisingly faster than I had expected. Despite this, however, it is still a turn 4-5 deck on average (where the best uninteractive decks are 3-4)...so you've win plenty of game ones in reality; but on average they are favored.
I had built multiple sideboards with the express purpose of beating unfair decks (with Damping Matrix, Spellskite, Silent Arbiter, etc.) but it was not until a member on here suggested and discussed Bring to Light that I felt truly confident that I can actively beat unfair decks with certainty (as much certainty as one can have in a game of variance). It was a big leap for the deck. I don't meant to sound like I'm taking credit for it (it was not my idea); but it was a great help to the deck. Being able to have multiple "copies" of cards like Supreme Verdict, Crumble to Dust, Spellskite, Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Silent Arbiter, Creeping Corrosion etc. really does allow us to have the strongest hate possible against the most unfair and uninteractive decks in the meta without (and this is the most important part....) without drastically changing the tempo/synergy of the deck. If I draw a second copy of Bring to Light after I've already cast the hate card, I can either fetch a Witness to recur the hate card, or simply cast a Harmonize or Primal Command.
I still have a TON of testing to do. The crappy part about Green Devotion now is that there are too many tools! Something has to give I currently don't have Genesis Wave in the deck...and it one of my favorite (and most powerful card) in the entire archetype! It just doesn't "hit" Hydra, BTL, Command, or Harmonize so it wasn't as effective as it used to be...but in a combo deck, often times a Wave for 6+ will end the game (or allow us to wave again). It's tough to find the right balance (and I still have to test to get there).
I think our biggest trick right now is actually possibly "toning down" the crazy nature of the deck. We (a majority of Green Devotion decks) are SO good against fair decks that it honestly feels like they can't beat us...but this comes at the possible cost of unfair match ups. We have all been tuning like crazy to find a way to still be massively favored against fair decks, while finding ways to be favored post-board against unfair decks. I personally believe it is just a matter of slowing the unfair opponent down by a turn or two (as if we have 5+ turns we are probably going to win) rather than completely shutting them down. If we can do this with consistency, we have a Tier deck. This can be done with Bring to Light, a Glittering Wish board, or any number of ways.
I'm blabbering now...
Like I said, we are making huge leaps in competitiveness; but we still have lots of testing/tuning to go. I've never been so excited about Green Devotion's potential as I am now. We finally have the core, win cons, and board options to compete! So glad to have you back! Even if it is just checking in
** EDIT **
Trying out a 1-of Wargate in place of the third Curio. Not sure if that's too many tutors; but there are many interesting uses for the card as it can tutor for land (Nykthos or Wolf Run) any part of the combo (Walker or Curio), or even an Abundanr Growth if we want to start a loop. Here's the list:
** UPDATE** I tried playing a copy of Wargate for a few hours...made for some awesome plays...but it felt super complicated and a little slow. It is a very powerful tool that may fit well in the Bant list that GM13p, SwaggyLobster and others are playing/tuning (simply because you already at the colors). In my build, it just felt to complicated to be with it. Currently I'm just running another Harmonize in my main board "flex spot.
Ive been so successful with the enchantment shell, I decided to start tracking my matches. I'll post my results after some more play testing. But Genesis Wave is far from a suicide once youre aware of that possibility. Most often I wave for x = 5/6. From that I usually get 4-5 permanents and draw 3-5 cards. Usually a Nykthos or a Garruk comes from that, and I can combo off with a Tooth and Nail the very same turn.
That is awesome!!! I can't wait to see your results and hear more about your games. It's a pain in the butt to post play-by-play matches (in most cases its better/easier just to give a match summary plus any interesting interactions you found); but the more detail the better! It goes such a long way in helping all of us get better with the archetype! Can't wait to hear more.
I was able to spend a large portion of yesterday and today testing the ideas/interactions I was most interested in (in particular those with Bring to Light). I found a few things I expected and a few things I didn't'; but it did leave to where I am at now. The most important things I found were the following:
1. You really don't have to dilute the main-board much. 1-2 Copies of BTL is more than enough...and I actually only run one copy of Bring to Light main (leaving the other two in the board). It actually is better than having none (as it represents an additional possible "copy" of Harmonize, Command, Witness, or even a dork if need be.
2. Harmonize is an outstanding card. I honestly can say I have never tested with it (maybe once a while back). I have always been a big proponent of utilizing permanent-based card draw/card advantage. Devotion is a permanent-based mechanic; so it seemed pretty self explanatory that you would prefer to play a creature that states "draw a card when enters the battlefield" than an instant/sorcery that states "draw two cards". For that reason, I pretty much have always poo-poo'd Harmonize. I only tried it here because I felt it was a potential target for BTL.
Harmonize was crazy good. I had games where I was able to cast Harmonize, grab it back with Witness, and cast it again. I began favoring casting BTL for Harmonize rather than Primal Command in many match ups because it was a faster and more potent form of card advantage. There are obvious match ups where Command was preferrable; but more and more I was casting Harmonize (as an aside, this is part of what makes BTL awesome...you get to pick which card you prefer to cast..)
I do think that decks focusing on Genesis Wave may not wish to dabble with Harmonize...but it is absolutely a card that can and should be played in some Green Devotion builds.
After testing the interactions I wanted to test, I went back to the "roots" of the Walker Combo Deck. Here is the list I've tested for the last 8 or so hours (and the one I will be testing the rest of the weekend):
* I'm currently trying out a 1-of either Time Warp or Primeval Titan and only 3x Genesis Hydra but I don't know if either is really any better. See below for more discussion on these ideas *
** I'm also not entirely sold on Magus of the Moon and may replace him in the board...I just don't know what with yet I'd like to try
I went back to 3x Cloudstone Curio due to a few interactions I am getting much better at:
1. I've begun casting Genesis Hydra for 5-6 instead of 10+ leaving mana available in order to hit a Cloudstone Curio if I have a dork on board. You can then bounce the dork, cast it, bounce the Hydra, cast it for X=max mana you have left in hopes of hitting either Garruk or Nissa who in turn will untap the lands to do it all over again! I can't tell you how many games I've one doing this. I was playing against Tron this evening and literally went from a completely open board (well, lands and enchantments) to infinite combo in the same turn. The guy playing me said, "I wonder if Tron could play Green for this..." I told him I didn't think Tron needed any help.
2. The Abundant Growth Loops are still a crazy powerful tool. Even if you don't completely combo off (although most times you will because you will hit a Garruk, Nissa, and/or Nykthos during the loop to keep it going) you will often set yourself up for a guaranteed win the next turn. It's just way to many cards drawn for most opponents to deal with it. I've gotten better about looping only one Abundant Growth (i.e. if I'm looping it with a Utopia Sprawl). By keeping multiple Forest's untapped, you can tap a Forest enchanted with one or more Sprawls, then move them over to an untapped land so you can utilize the Sprawl 2,3,4, 5, etc. times in the same turn...as many open Forests as you have means that Abundant Growth and Utopia Sprawl is still one card for G! Took me a while to figure that out.
3. I've sincerely thought about squeezing a Time Warp into the deck (possibly sideboard). It was very interesting to play with it, because once you hit the right mana (a total of 9 with 2x Blue available)...if you have Eternal Witness + Time Warp + Cloudstone Curio + Mana Dork; you have infinite turns. You just play the Time Warp, cast Witness recuring the Time Warp, then cast the dork to recur Witness...repeat the process the next turn. Technically you want a little extra mana or something else on the board (an attacker, a walker, etc.) so you can do something on all of those turns; but it certainly is a way of allowing us to keep building why our opponent literally doesn't have the time to build their own plan. It is something I'm still working on.
I can't say for certain that you want three Curios; but it is so important to so many aspects of this deck that I thought I'd play three for the time being and see just how many games I have it and don't want it vs. games I want it and don't have it.
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I've been writing out as much as I can on each match up, interaction, etc.. I'll keep you all posted on how this list and these new ideas perform. I'm excited to hear everyone else's experiences with the archetype as well! From Enchantress to Tooth and Nail...there's so much we can do!
After reading Sam Black's most recent article about modern, I decided to test Ojutai's Command again as the curve topper in the deck. I'm glad I gave it a second chance. It has been performing very well. The return target creature mode is by far the strongest for our deck, but I have utilized all four modes of the card in play already in a short period of time. It is a great way to get value back in grindier games like those against Abzan (which is one of our worst matchups). Getting a Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Abbot of Keral Keep, ir Snapcaster Mage back and drawing another card is just crazy value. Worse case scenario you can just get a delver or swiftspear back and start beating down again. I cut the Restoration Angel I was trying in that slot. She wasn't bad at all, but Ojutai's Command has been great.
I also went back up to 19 lands. The 18 land deck was nice, but I felt that I was missing white mana too often and even in my wins I would have a card or two left over that I could play with extra land. Because I am also running one four drop now I think the additional land will be necessary. I still run the deck at 61 cards (I know some of you hate that, but's it a thing I do) so it's really more like 18.7 lands. After all of my tinkering around I think I may finally be very close to my ideal 61.
I have my notes from FNM this week that I will detail tomorrow. The opponents were Grixis Control, Collected Company Zoo, Tron, and Abzan and we 4-0!
I will also be testing with my test group tomorrow evening so please let me know if there are any matchups you would like me to test against and take notes or if there are any cards you would like me to test out.
We can now consistently beat unfair decks at very little cost to our fair match-ups.
With fine tuning; this archetype is certainly Tier 2.0 at minimum. It can beat all of the top Tier decks (and BTL increases the win percentage quite a lot!).
Harmonize has been surprisingly strong. To be honest, I never used it that much in the past; but I have been very happy with it. I'm up to Two copies (four if you count both BTL's ). Now with so many potential tutors; it makes for interesting deck building for sure! I'm so excited to see so many on here fine tuning their Green Devotion decks. I truly think there are a few viable strategies; but the vast majority of "core" features will be the same. So much awesome deck building and ideas....I agree that the future for Green Devotion is brighter than it ever has been.
The constellation enchantment shell keeps surprising me. It seems really good.
The last game I played against Rack, I was stuck behind 3 ensnaring bridges. I don't run P.Command anymore (even tho I love the combo), and I wasn't sure what to Tooth and Nail for in order to win. I had an Eidolon of blossoms out, and fetched 2 more drawing me 5 cards. From that point on I kept playing 1 enchantment to draw 3 cards until I went through almost my whole deck. Then I found Kessig Wolf run and attacked with a bird for fatal.
I had infinite mana from drawing a garruk here and there. It made Tooth and Nail into a controlled Genesis Wave, where I could draw as much or as little as I wanted, and it didn't descriminate between permanents and soceries/instants.
That's really cool! Eidolon is something that has come up a couple times in here and so far it's pretty much agreed upon that (a) it is a great card and (b) none of us have made it work yet You may have done so. You're obviously seeing a ton of success with it, and you are absolutely right that it can go crazy! I can't wait to hear more about it!
There are just so many interactions and cool things we can do. I just played a game that reminded me of the infinite combo I may not have mentioned in the past (two Garruks, an Eternal Witness, a Curio, and another creature). In this case, the "other creature" was a bird. Used this loop to "go infinite" and make infinite 3/3 tokens. The archetype certainly is powerful enough. The trick is just striking the balance between power, speed, and consistency...
Please keep us informed of how the deck performs and other cool interactions you find in your playing/testing.
What a cool idea! There's just so darn much we can do now!
I've been going crazy with all of the ideas/synergies/interactions we have. Not to mention the tutors! I know I may look a little crazy; but here's what I've been testing recently;
It's not necessarily meant to be a "final" deck. I really am just trying to explore what I can do with Bring to Light in the build. I also tried a 1-of Time Warp but it got pretty complex (as you could Witness back the warp over and over with Curio...just seemed like the deck was getting too complex at that point.
I'm really just looking at what Bring to Light can mean for Green Devotion after so many great ideas (and its original suggestion by other community members on our forum). It's been so good in the board, that I wanted to explore its main-board use as well (as many of us are). Thus far, I like it as an additional copy of Harmonize, Witness, or Command.
There are issues, however. Mainly simply because we know have too many great options!
It's very difficult to get any better than Genesis Wave, Witness, Tooth and Nail, Command, and/or Primeval Titan. New cards have to be REALLY good to take up slots where these cards would go. I'm not certain which of the "newer" cards do this (Genesis Hydra, Bring to Light, etc.) but I'm tearing my brain apart to see what they can do. As always, I'll let you know what I find. I'll also write out the old Merfolk/other match ups just in case (to keep up to date).
I really would just like to get to a "set" list for each archetype (or at least a set "core" for each Walker, Tooth and Nail, Traditional, Silver Bullet, and Stompy Ddvotion decks).
The main problem now is we have too many interesting options...especially when it comes to "tutor" cards. There are great synergies between all of these cards:
1. Primal Command can tutor for any creature (including Eternal Witness and Genesis Hydra
2. Genesis Hydra can hit any non-land permanent (including Witness, walkers, etc.)
3. Genesis Wave hits all legal permanents it reveals of course.
4. Bring to Light can tutor for any creature, instant, or sorcery of 5-CMC or less (depending on mana).
There are issues thought:
1. Genesis Wave can't hit Genesis Hydra, Bring to Light, or Primal Command
2. Genesis Hydra can't hit Bring to Light, Genesis Wave, or Primal Command.
3. Bring to Light can't tutor for Genesis Wave (it can for Hydra via Command, but not directly).
So basically, you have to hit the right tutors in the right order (or build the deck to take the most advantage of some assortment of only a few of them).
I wonder if there's a reason people aren't using Hindering Light. TOO conditional?
yes
I love the outside the box thinking. However, I agree with AshtonKutcher on this one.
It looks like it could be a good card. Heck, any card that says "draw a card" at instant speed for less than 3 mana needs to be seriously looked at. However, it just doesn't play out very well (in my experience). Most decks in modern want general answers due to the wide open nature of the decks you might face in a given tournament. I thought this card might work in the sideboard where more situational cards typically live, but I tried it in my sideboard for a week or two and it was still just to conditional and wasn't getting sided in enough to warrant a slot.
You pretty much it every single nail on the head
I have Primal Command in the board now (none main) as it just feels slower than everything else we can do. There are amazing applications (life gain, land "quasi-hate", Shuffling Graveyards back in, etc.) that make the card powerful (as the same card is good against burn, graveyard decks, random mill, etc. but it just doesn't "feel" like a main board card for me in the current meta (although it did well in past metas). MJ seemed to do well with it and Wutness combined.
You are also right about BTL. The applications are seemingly endless :). I've been working on an idea with Grapeshot (given my love of Cloudstone Curio), and it already works to tutor for amazing sideboard options, Harmonize, Eternal Witness, and things like Acidic Slime and even Primal Command! This is not to mention the combo appeal of things like Resto Angel + Kiki-Jiki. For me, however, the trick is making sure to incorporate it flawlessly in the main; as the sideboard you can make it hit I believe potentialy can be the push Green Devktion needed to get to the next level.
And as much as I fool around trying to make a combo deck work in devotion (which I feel I am only a few cards away from); I always advise people to play Tooth and Nail versions of the deck if it fits their play style (as they seem the most powerful currently)...so I think you're in the right spot!
Thanks for posting! Keep us informed on how your deck evolves and how it performs. Everyone here is here for the same reason; we love green devotion and want to make it a viable "tier" deck in as many ways as we can. The more help the better! And it sounds like you have some great thoughts/ideas.
P.S. I've been toying with adding Grapeshot and BTE to my list. The recent discussion of Speed made me think that I should devote a week to trying to find what the "fastest" green devotion cards are. I'm fairly positive that Burning-Tree Emissary is one of them. It's sole goal is to get you to devotion quickly! And to re-trigger Nykthos off a Wave/Hydra, etc. I looked back a Jarvis Woo's Decotion deck (as it also contained Curio) and tried to borrow some ideas from there as well.
Basically, with Curio, if you have 2x BTE you can infinitely bounce/cast them. Grapeshot would be the current finisher (as I can use it with Abundant Growth loops as well); but you can use Purphoros, Impact Tremors, outpost drive, etc. of course, it's also another Bring to Light Target. Since BOTH Grapeshot and BTE are BTL targets; it makes the combo easier to hit. No idea if it works or not; but I'm trying to dedicate this week to trying new ideas and exploring speed and BTL.
I'll post the list shortly.
Sorry it took me so long to get the notes up. I had a busy weekend and the Colts beat the Broncos so we had to celebrate
Jeskai Prowess Tempo vs G/R Tron
Thoughts on the matchup- I actually love this matchup. I have never played a deck that had a generally good matchup against Tron until now. I can't remember the last time I lost to tron. They are very bad against tempo and aggro/control decks so we have an excellent chance against them. Just get an early threat out, protect against Pyroclasm with Boros Charm, Emerge Unscathed, Spell Snare[/c}, Remand, and even Vapor Snag if you have to. We can burn them out most games even if they land a Karn or Ugin.
Game 1 - on the play
Fairly textbook game one against tron. I mulliganed to 6 into a hand of Delver, Swiftspear, a Steam Vents, Bolt, Helix, and Boros Charm. The delver flipped early and I was able to beat him just after he got tron. He ever cast a pyroclasm but my boros charm was at the ready :).
Sideboard-
In- 2x Deflecting Palm, Negate, Jeskai Charm, Spreading Seas, and 2x Wear/Tear
Out- 3x Gitaxian Probe, 2x Lightning Helix, 1x Remand, and 1x Geist of Saint Traft.
Game 2 - on draw
He was able to get tron on turn four so this one was a bit longer. I had early aggression from a Monastery Swiftspear and a Abbot of Keral Keep which got him down to 7 life. However, he landed a turn four Wurmcoil Engine. I was able to Vapor Snag it and Negate the follow up [Ugin, Spirit Dragon[/c] to finish him off.
Round Wrap-up
I don't know if I am just getting lucky against this deck or if the matchup really is heavily in our favor. Having a favorable tron matchup is really a plus when Tron picks up in the meta. Tron has always been fairly cyclical in my opinion because it has a lot of 80/20 and 20/80 matchups (more 80/20's than the latter). All in all there isn't much to say about this matchup. It's pretty straight forward. Go aggro and you should be able to get the victory.
3-0
Jeskai Prowess Tempo vs Abzan "The Rock"
Thoughts on the matchup- I still haven't decided what I think the worst matchup is for our deck in game one, but Abzan is on the short list. Without a quick start, it is nearly impossible to win game 1 if both decks draw evenly and curve out. I have been trying to find small ways to improve this matchup recently. The creation of Abbot of Keral Keep helped us a lot so we have to thank WOTC for that. As I said earlier, I recently added Ojutai's Command to the maindeck and it has really shined in this matchup. Because it's a one of we can't depend on it, but it definitely helped the matchup. I also switched out Spirit Link from the board and added Jeskai Charm. I have heard good things from other Jeskai players about Jeskai charm so I thought I would give it a try. If it doesn't work out, I'm going to give Valorous Stance a shot.
Game 1 - on draw
This was a really strange game. He had an opening hand with two Inquisition of Kozilek and a Thougthsezie so he pretty much stripped my hand of any action by turn two. However, he wasted most of his hand and took some damage off of lands. I drew a turn three Geist of Saint Traft and had a Distortion Strike left over from the hand massacre. Geist did 14 damage over the ensuing two turns. He cast a Seige Rhino and the game looks a little less favorable at that point. Then we draw our the bees knees Ojutai's Command. I drew a card and reanimate a Abbot of Keral Keep who hits a Serum Visions. I was able to put a Path to Exile on top with the Abbot. We now had an answer for the Rhino, a threat and a fairly stocked hand when compared to his hand. The rest of the game was an abbot beat down over two/three turns.
Sideboard-
In- Rending Volley, 2x Deflecting Palm, Celestial Purge, Chandra, Pyromaster, Engineered Explosives, Wear/Tear.
Out- 3x Gitaxian Probe, 2x Lightning Helix, 1x Remand, and 1x Geist of Saint Traft.
Game 2 - on draw
Like most second/third games against Abzan, this game had 10+ turns. Both decks are fairly heavy on removal post board and we kept casting and removing threats. I wish I had written down more of the first 2-6 turns, but it was just trading back and forth. The ending of the game was super interesting and included an interaction I had never even thought of before it happened. It probably won't happen every again. We reached a stated in the game where I was at 7 life and he was at 5 life. We were both had a single card in hand and I had 7 assorted lands he had 9. My card in hand was a Scalding Tarn which I hadn't played to make him think I had something and because I didn't need the land. I top decked Jace on my turn. I used Slayer's Stronghold to give him haste and tapped him to loot. I drew Lightning Bolt. I cast bolt and flash it back for the win.
Round Wrap-up
I will be the first to admit I got very lucky and drew very well in both games, but the cards are in the deck to cast. This is typically an extremely tough matchup in my experience. The Abzan player just grinds us out and the value takes over. Seige Rhino might be my least favorite card ever followed closely by Kitchen Finks. There aren't any cards that make the matchup a ton easier in my mind. I would love to hear everyone suggestions on cards that help this matchup. The cards that really help the matchup are Path to Exile, Ojutai's Command, Abbot of Keral Keep, Snapcaster Mage, Distortion Strike, and Emerge Unscathed. If we don't draw multiples of these cards we have a very tough time winning. The incidental life gain they get and all of the removal makes it's very tough to tempo them out so we have to resort to trying to keep up with their value or going super aggro to kill them before they gain too much life/value.
4-0
All in all I am very pleased with where the deck is right now. I probably won't be tinkering or changing any cards for the remainder of this month to see how the current list performs over an extended period (unless the meta shifts drastically). I'm eagerly awaiting the UR manland and hope it helps our deck become even more potent. Other than that, the only real addition I could hope for is some type of cheap card advantage/deck manipulation spell (maybe Opt), but that may be a pipe dream.
I will also be working on tuning my more midrange version of the deck so I can utilize my Narset The Transcendent and Monastery Mentors :). I will keep you all posted with this deck as well. Thanks as always for reading and join in the discussion. Let me know what you think of my build, the deck type in general, and what 60 cards you think makes up the best Jeskai Prowess strategy in modern? Also what is your tech to help the midrange matchups like Abzan and Jund?
Ojutai's Command was really impressive in the abzan matchup so I will post the notes today. I too am a growing fan of this card. Thank you for recommending it. It has really been great thus far.
This is on of the best posts I have read in a long time. Very in depth and super informative. I pretty much agree with every point you have made.
- I tried the deck without Monastery Swiftspear and it just didn't have the same power. We really need an early threat for the deck to play out at its best potential. Therefore, I feel that swiftspear is a must for the more aggressive or tempo versions of the deck.
- Abbot has been amazing. He truly shines in our toughest matchups (Abzan, Jund, etc) because he provides so much value that we can pick up advantage on them when they typically want to out advantage us. I feel that he is best as a two of in the aggro/contorl tempo versions, but if you lean a bit more midrange because your meta has more abzan, jund, coco, etc I think three would be fine.
- For me, Geist of Saint Traft is one of the pillars of the deck. He is the single best option for a Distortion Strike. With that said, I don't think you want to many of him because he is legendary, because he is a three drop, and because he is really tough for the opponent to remove, . I run two copies. He is best in the blue based matchups (Twin, Grixis, Jeskai midrange/control, etc). He is probably the card they want to see the least on the other side of the board. He is not great in the matchup you played against and I typically side one copy out against Abzan and Zoo because they have so many beaters and Liliana of the Viel. I do think he is a must for my personal version of the deck.
- I'm an really glad to hear you praise Slayer's Stronghold. I have tried to sell people on this card. I actually started playing this because another user just continued to sing it's praises in the WUR delver forums about a year ago. It really helps to sure up our late game and makes every single threat a hasty and large beater. It does stink in your opening hand, but like I always say, it has won me far more games than it has lost me.
- Your comments sound like you have been testing the deck for years, not days. I also tried a fourth color at one point (mine was green), but it just got a little to cute and took away from the stream-lined feel of the deck. I loved having access to cards like Noble Heirarch, Prey Upon, Simic charm, etc, but it made me go crazy with brewing and I diluted the deck way to much.
- I think your final point is partially right. I would suggest cutting one Geist, a snapcaster, and possibly another card or two to get swiftspear into the deck. I only run two snapcasters, but would never fault anyone for running 3-4. I also don't think Jeskai Midrange is a bad choice right now, but there are some metas where the deck can turn into lesser powered midrange option when compared to other midrange options. That's why I lean towards the more tempo based or aggro/control versions of Jeskai Geist. It's a bit more proactive. I have never loved Geist in the Midrange/Control decks because he always seemed like an aggressive card to me, not a late game option because the opponent will have time to get big beefy blockers in the way.
I hope you give the deck another try against a number of the decks in the format and I really hope you keep us posted. It is invaluable to have information like this for other interested players. Let me know where you agree/disagree and I would love to see your entire decklist as well. Thanks so much for posting.
Land destruction sucks :). There are things like Terra Eternal to help along with spreading out the land enchantments (although not sure that would help against Plow Under....); but the problem becomes how much sideboard can you dedicate to anti-land destruction. P.S. I flipped when I first read Trace of Abundance too ;). Damn Shroud. If printed today, it would say Hexproof!
Truly great results! Thanks for posting them. If you could, please re-post your list if you get a chance. It just helps those wanting to play your deck not to have to go back to find it. Once the lists are "set" (as set as they can be); I'll post them to the Primer too; but for now I like the idea of the most updated list being available within only a few pages.
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I also really took what you said about speed to heart. You Are absolutely right that game one should be "plan A"...ramp and pound. For me. That meant moving the Primal Command to the board (where they probably should be anyways) and adding back a little more speed to the deck...the best bet I think is Elvish Visionary. He helps dig, is great with Curio, and is permanent-based advantage. I've got 6 or so hours to test tomorrow; so I'm gonna try the below list and write out what happens. I honestly think you're suggestion made the difference for me to find the final 3-4 cards needed for the "set" list.
4x Arbor Elf
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Elvish Visionary
3x Eternal Witness
3x Genesis Hydra
Enchantment (11)
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Abundant Growth
3x Fertile Ground
Planeswalker (7)
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Nissa, Worldwaker
1x Karn Liberated
3x Cloudstone Curio
Instant/Sorcery (3)
1x Harmonize
1x Bring to Light
Lands (21)
7x Forest
1x Breeding Pool
1x Stomping Ground
1x Murmuring Bosk
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Misty Rainforest
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Kessig Wolf Run
2x Spellskite
2x Primal Command
2x Bring to Light
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Silent Arbiter
1x Slaughter Games
1x Creeping Corrosion
1x Crumble to Dust
1x Thragtusk
1x Kitchen Finks
Great results and thank you for the timely and wise suggestion. Excited to see/hear more about the Eidolon Devotion Build.
I love the Freed from the Real idea. If you are focusing on it; there were a few things in the past I tried with it (although I didn't give it nearly enough time/effort like you have). I don't know if any are useable; but I thought I'd provide them just in case.
1. Sheltered Erie + Dryad Arbor + Freed From the Real is also infinite.
2. The Blue transmute cards (Muddle the Mixture and Drifting Phantasm) are good ways to tutor for the pieces in some cases.
3. Obviously, Bloom Tender is another creature that can "go infinite" with FFTR.
Just a few ideas/thoughts.
I totally agree that we are super close with many builds. For me, I know my core of Walkers. Lands, and Enchantments are "set". I still have about 6 "card drawing support" cards I am working on setting in stone (I.e. How many Harmonize are needed? Are Elvish Visionary's a better option given their synergy with Curio and being permanent-based drawing?, do Genesis Waves hit enough?, etc. The other 54-56 cards are set; and the board has been such a huge improvement (even with trying differing ideas out, the "core" and board alone win most games.). I feel pretty confident the list will be "set" tomorrow so I can start filming and playing on-line this week.
I also want to start discussing other's builds in depth. The Bant list, the Enchantment List, the Tooth and Nail lists....there are so many awesome ideas/brews on here that I want to make sure we highlight and discuss. I think many readers would gravitate to different lists and would be interested to see the full spectrum of what Green Devotiin can do!
Jeskai Prowess Tempo vs Grixis Control
Thoughts on the matchup- This matchup is highly dependent on the particular person's build of Grixis Control. I have found the matchup to be fairly favorable for our deck. If they have a ton of hand destruction/distruption the matchup becomes a lot harder, but lately all of the grixis decks have been running 4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and have taken a slightly more late game approach rather than landing an early delve creature and protecting. This has actually worked out in my favor as I have been able to get out in front of a lot of these decks. I would say this is most likely a coin flip matchup with Jeskai Prowess tempo favored post board.
Game 1 - on draw
This was a very long and grindy style game. We kept removing each other's threats and passing. A couple of Abbot of Keral Keeps and him flooding a little helped me squeak out a win.
Sideboard-
In- Chandra, Pyromaster, 2x Deflecting Palm, Celestial Purge, Negate, Dispel, Grim Lavamancer, and Wear/Tear
Out- 3x Gitaxian Probe, 2x Lightning Helix, 1x Distortion Strike, 1x Remand, and 1x Geist of Saint Traft.
Game 2 - on draw
I kept a one land hand here and didn't get my second land until turn 3. I did have two delvers and a bolt in my opener so I was able to play the delvers on turns one and two. However, he had answer for both delvers. Abbot was able to hit a land on turn 4 and we had an actual game of magic. However, he out valued me with a Kolaghan's Command, Cryptic Command, and Snapcaster Mage on both Cryptic and Kolaghan's Command on two different turns. I lost another longish game.
Game 3- on play
This one was a very short game. I started with two Monastery Swiftspears and an Abbot of Keral Keep on turn three for a bolt. I was able to protect Swiftspear on turn two with an Emerge Unscathed and basically played the game like burn deck. He was able to land a semi-early Gurmag Angler, but I had the Celestial Purge to remove it and I finished him off with a alpha strike with the remaining Abbot, swiftspear, and Faerie Conclave for the win.
Round Wrap-up
I was happy that I was able to win a slightly more grindy affair in game one and was happy that the deck played out quickly in game three. Game two went as expected if I let the game go too long against this deck because they have the superior top end of the deck. There were no real memorable plays to speak of so we will move on to round two.
1-0
Jeskai Prowess Tempo vs Collected Company Zoo
Thoughts on the matchup- I would consider this one of our more challenging matchups, especially in game 1. Zoo decks can vary greatly, but the collect company version is probably our hardest matchup. They typically can take the aggressive approach or can depend on their value to out grind the opponenet. I typically want to be the aggressor and keep their threats to a minimum in the early game and then finish the game off with reach/burn. I really try to play this matchup as a true tempo matchup. I would call this a 40/60 matchup game one and a 55/45 post board (mainly due to Deflecting Palm.
Game 1 - on draw
This was a very interesting game with a great ending to the game. I was able to bolt and path his early Wild Nactl and Tarmogoyf. I landed a turn three Geist of Saint Traft and he was able to do 14 damage over the next two turns via a Distortion Strike. The turn after I attack with Geist he is wondering why I attacked because that leaves me with a board of Monastery Swiftspear and a tapped Geist of Saint Traft and 10 life. He has no cards in hand but has a board of a 4/5 Tarmogoyf, a 5/5 Knight of the Reliquary, a 3/3 Wild Nactl. He draws a land which lets him attack with Stirring Wildwood as well. He attacks for lethal and I cast Ojutai's Command getting back an Abbot of Keral Keep to block and gaining 4 life. A Geist attack on the following turn finished him off.
Sideboard-
In- Engineered Explosives, 2x Deflecting Palm, Chandra, Pyromaster, Dispel, Rending Volley.
Out- 3x Gitaxian Probe, 1x Emerge Unscathed, 1x Remand, and 1x Boros Charm.
Game 2 - on draw
This game was not as close as the first game. He had a hand full of 3 and 4 mana spells and I had 1 and 2 mana answers. He only cast a Loxodon Smiter and a Collected Company (netting him a Knight of Reliquary and Kor Firewalker) in the first 4 turns. I cast Path to Exile on a Knight of Reliquary and a Vapor Snag on a Loxodon Smiter for tempo. A Jace, Telepath Unbound was able to -2/0 the Kor Firewalker so that Geist could attack freely to do some damage. That's the first time that interaction has come up. A Snapcaster Mage for Path to Exile cleaned up the Smiter that he re-cast and Geist finished him off.
Round Wrap-up
I was extremely pleased with the decks performance against this deck. The opponent did falter a little to start the game which let my slower hand of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Geist of Saint Traft take over the game, but I am always happy to beat one of these decks. I was really excited to see the interaction of Jace, Telepath Unbound and Kor Firewalker. The firewalker is a thorn in our side so any help we can get is welcome. This interaction may never come up again, but at least we know it can happen.
2-0
The Tron and Abzan notes will be added if anyone wants to see them. I have no problem posting the notes, but don't want to post too many separate posts in a row and I don't want to post a super long post taking up the whole page. If any does want to see the notes please comment/post and let me know and I will post them as well. Thanks for reading and for your help with the deck!
I mentioned you a while back as you were the creator/chamption of the "Silver Bullet" version a while back; and Bring to the Light seems like a harken back to the deck (and potentially a way to reinvigorate it given its ability to tutor for both peices of the "combo" and many of the peices already in the deck (not to mention the sideboard implications). The Curio is actually there for a few reasons:
1. The "Walker Combo" - The first is to facilitate the "Walker Combo". If you have a Garruk Wildspeaker and a Cloudstone Curio and you play a Nissa, Wolrdwaker...as long as you have either a single Uotpia Sprawl, Fertile Ground, or Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (basically anything that allows you to create a total amount of mana that is 1-mana greater than the casting cost of the two walkers (in the case of Garruk and Nissa you would need to create 10 mana) AFTER you have utilized both of their mana abilities.
That was probably not the easiest way to explain it; but basically a Curio + two planeswalkers that can create mana = Infinite Mana. It can be done with Xenagos, the Reveler and very interestingly Kiora, the Crashing Wave as well; but I've utilized Nissa, Worldwaker and really not seen a reason to change yet.
The real interesting part is that once you've created infinite mana, you can keep bouncing and triggering the walker...so they act as the infinite mana AND the win-con. With Xenagos, you create infnite 2/2 hasty creatures. With Garruk you create infinite 3/3 tokens...With Karn you exile their entire board...With Kiora you can draw out your deck, etc. In honesty, 90% of the time you hit the combo; you will also have a way to infinitely draw (all it takes is either an Abundant Growth, a Genesis Hydra, an Eternal Witness in most cases, a Harmonize, a Primal Command, a Primeval Titan, or a Bring to the Light). Also (and I'm getting down the rabbit hole here, but I can't help myself), with Garruk and Nissa, if you have a Kessig Wolf Run in play you can infinitely boost every creature on board (including an un-summoning sick land made and untapped by Nissa) to kill on the same turn as well....pretty much once you've hit the combo, 99% of the time you've won that turn.
I have had multiple times (due due Nykthos) where the combo worked with just Garruk and Karn (as Garruk re-triggering Nykthos would make 12+ mana by himself); but I would still advise utilizing another mana-walker for the ease of hitting the combo.
2. The Abundant Growth Loop - With a Clodustone Curio in play, you can bounce any non-artifact permanent. This includes enchantments. In the case of Abundant Growth; it gives us a cheap way to use extra mana to draw extra cards. While it's best with two copies of Abundant Growth, any other enchantment will do; and you can continue bouncing and drawing with Abundant Growth at a cost of G per card! It gets a little complex with Utopia Sprawls (as you want to leave Forests untapped to utilize the same Utopia Sprawls over and over again to make the cost per draw still only 1-mana; but it is not that complicated once you've done it a couple times. It simply allows you to use the cards you are already playing in a devotion deck to increase your devotion/ramp to also draw cards. I could write a ton more about it; but I know you and your level of play; so I have no doubt you already know how it works.
3. Bouncing Witness, Hydra, Finks, Thragtusk, etc. - As you've already stated, anything with an "Enters the Battlefield" effect can be abused with Curio.
The really interesting one is Genesis Hydra. Because of the way Genesis Hydra is worded, the Cloudstone Curio actually enters the battlefield BEFORE the hydra (that's why if the Hydra is countered you still get your revealed permanent)...so Genesis Hydra BOTH finds the Curio AND triggers it
You are absolutely right that the most un-interactive game plans are the worst match ups (Infect, Tron to some extent, Twin, etc.). The deck is actually pretty darn fast. Suprisingly faster than I had expected. Despite this, however, it is still a turn 4-5 deck on average (where the best uninteractive decks are 3-4)...so you've win plenty of game ones in reality; but on average they are favored.
I had built multiple sideboards with the express purpose of beating unfair decks (with Damping Matrix, Spellskite, Silent Arbiter, etc.) but it was not until a member on here suggested and discussed Bring to Light that I felt truly confident that I can actively beat unfair decks with certainty (as much certainty as one can have in a game of variance). It was a big leap for the deck. I don't meant to sound like I'm taking credit for it (it was not my idea); but it was a great help to the deck. Being able to have multiple "copies" of cards like Supreme Verdict, Crumble to Dust, Spellskite, Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Silent Arbiter, Creeping Corrosion etc. really does allow us to have the strongest hate possible against the most unfair and uninteractive decks in the meta without (and this is the most important part....) without drastically changing the tempo/synergy of the deck. If I draw a second copy of Bring to Light after I've already cast the hate card, I can either fetch a Witness to recur the hate card, or simply cast a Harmonize or Primal Command.
I still have a TON of testing to do. The crappy part about Green Devotion now is that there are too many tools! Something has to give
I think our biggest trick right now is actually possibly "toning down" the crazy nature of the deck. We (a majority of Green Devotion decks) are SO good against fair decks that it honestly feels like they can't beat us...but this comes at the possible cost of unfair match ups. We have all been tuning like crazy to find a way to still be massively favored against fair decks, while finding ways to be favored post-board against unfair decks. I personally believe it is just a matter of slowing the unfair opponent down by a turn or two (as if we have 5+ turns we are probably going to win) rather than completely shutting them down. If we can do this with consistency, we have a Tier deck. This can be done with Bring to Light, a Glittering Wish board, or any number of ways.
I'm blabbering now...
Like I said, we are making huge leaps in competitiveness; but we still have lots of testing/tuning to go. I've never been so excited about Green Devotion's potential as I am now. We finally have the core, win cons, and board options to compete! So glad to have you back! Even if it is just checking in
** EDIT **
Trying out a 1-of Wargate in place of the third Curio. Not sure if that's too many tutors; but there are many interesting uses for the card as it can tutor for land (Nykthos or Wolf Run) any part of the combo (Walker or Curio), or even an Abundanr Growth if we want to start a loop. Here's the list:
4x Arbor Elf
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Eternal Witness
3x Genesis Hydra
Enchantment (11)
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Abundant Growth
3x Fertile Ground
Planeswalker (7)
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Nissa, Worldwaker
1x Karn Liberated
Artifact (3)
3x Cloudstone Curio
3x Harmonize
1x Bring to Light
1x Primal Command
Lands (21)
7x Forest
1x Breeding Pool
1x Stomping Ground
1x Murmuring Bosk
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Misty Rainforest
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Kessig Wolf Run
2x Spellskite
2x Bring to Light
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Silent Arbiter
1x Slaughter Games
1x Creeping Corrosion
1x Crumble to Dust
1x Thragtusk
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Primal Command
** UPDATE** I tried playing a copy of Wargate for a few hours...made for some awesome plays...but it felt super complicated and a little slow. It is a very powerful tool that may fit well in the Bant list that GM13p, SwaggyLobster and others are playing/tuning (simply because you already at the colors). In my build, it just felt to complicated to be with it. Currently I'm just running another Harmonize in my main board "flex spot.
That is awesome!!! I can't wait to see your results and hear more about your games. It's a pain in the butt to post play-by-play matches (in most cases its better/easier just to give a match summary plus any interesting interactions you found); but the more detail the better! It goes such a long way in helping all of us get better with the archetype! Can't wait to hear more.
Update on Testing Bring to Light in Walker Build
I was able to spend a large portion of yesterday and today testing the ideas/interactions I was most interested in (in particular those with Bring to Light). I found a few things I expected and a few things I didn't'; but it did leave to where I am at now. The most important things I found were the following:
1. You really don't have to dilute the main-board much. 1-2 Copies of BTL is more than enough...and I actually only run one copy of Bring to Light main (leaving the other two in the board). It actually is better than having none (as it represents an additional possible "copy" of Harmonize, Command, Witness, or even a dork if need be.
2. Harmonize is an outstanding card. I honestly can say I have never tested with it (maybe once a while back). I have always been a big proponent of utilizing permanent-based card draw/card advantage. Devotion is a permanent-based mechanic; so it seemed pretty self explanatory that you would prefer to play a creature that states "draw a card when enters the battlefield" than an instant/sorcery that states "draw two cards". For that reason, I pretty much have always poo-poo'd Harmonize. I only tried it here because I felt it was a potential target for BTL.
Harmonize was crazy good. I had games where I was able to cast Harmonize, grab it back with Witness, and cast it again. I began favoring casting BTL for Harmonize rather than Primal Command in many match ups because it was a faster and more potent form of card advantage. There are obvious match ups where Command was preferrable; but more and more I was casting Harmonize (as an aside, this is part of what makes BTL awesome...you get to pick which card you prefer to cast..)
I do think that decks focusing on Genesis Wave may not wish to dabble with Harmonize...but it is absolutely a card that can and should be played in some Green Devotion builds.
After testing the interactions I wanted to test, I went back to the "roots" of the Walker Combo Deck. Here is the list I've tested for the last 8 or so hours (and the one I will be testing the rest of the weekend):
4x Arbor Elf
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Eternal Witness
4x Genesis Hydra
Enchantment (11)
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Abundant Growth
3x Fertile Ground
Artifact (3)
3x Cloudstone Curio
Planeswalker (7)
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Nissa, Worldwaker
1x Karn Liberated
2x Harmonize
1x Primal Command
1x Bring to Light
Lands (21)
7x Forest
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Breeding Pool
1x Stomping Grounds
1x Murmuring Bosk
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Kessig Wolf Run
2x Spellskkite
2x Bring to Light
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Crumble to Dust
1x Creeping Corrosion
1x Thragtusk
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Slaughter Games
1x Silent Arbiter
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Flex (Currently Primal Command)
* I'm currently trying out a 1-of either Time Warp or Primeval Titan and only 3x Genesis Hydra but I don't know if either is really any better. See below for more discussion on these ideas *
** I'm also not entirely sold on Magus of the Moon and may replace him in the board...I just don't know what with yet
I went back to 3x Cloudstone Curio due to a few interactions I am getting much better at:
1. I've begun casting Genesis Hydra for 5-6 instead of 10+ leaving mana available in order to hit a Cloudstone Curio if I have a dork on board. You can then bounce the dork, cast it, bounce the Hydra, cast it for X=max mana you have left in hopes of hitting either Garruk or Nissa who in turn will untap the lands to do it all over again! I can't tell you how many games I've one doing this. I was playing against Tron this evening and literally went from a completely open board (well, lands and enchantments) to infinite combo in the same turn. The guy playing me said, "I wonder if Tron could play Green for this..."
2. The Abundant Growth Loops are still a crazy powerful tool. Even if you don't completely combo off (although most times you will because you will hit a Garruk, Nissa, and/or Nykthos during the loop to keep it going) you will often set yourself up for a guaranteed win the next turn. It's just way to many cards drawn for most opponents to deal with it. I've gotten better about looping only one Abundant Growth (i.e. if I'm looping it with a Utopia Sprawl). By keeping multiple Forest's untapped, you can tap a Forest enchanted with one or more Sprawls, then move them over to an untapped land so you can utilize the Sprawl 2,3,4, 5, etc. times in the same turn...as many open Forests as you have means that Abundant Growth and Utopia Sprawl is still one card for G! Took me a while to figure that out.
3. I've sincerely thought about squeezing a Time Warp into the deck (possibly sideboard). It was very interesting to play with it, because once you hit the right mana (a total of 9 with 2x Blue available)...if you have Eternal Witness + Time Warp + Cloudstone Curio + Mana Dork; you have infinite turns. You just play the Time Warp, cast Witness recuring the Time Warp, then cast the dork to recur Witness...repeat the process the next turn. Technically you want a little extra mana or something else on the board (an attacker, a walker, etc.) so you can do something on all of those turns; but it certainly is a way of allowing us to keep building why our opponent literally doesn't have the time to build their own plan. It is something I'm still working on.
I can't say for certain that you want three Curios; but it is so important to so many aspects of this deck that I thought I'd play three for the time being and see just how many games I have it and don't want it vs. games I want it and don't have it.
----
I've been writing out as much as I can on each match up, interaction, etc.. I'll keep you all posted on how this list and these new ideas perform. I'm excited to hear everyone else's experiences with the archetype as well! From Enchantress to Tooth and Nail...there's so much we can do!
I also went back up to 19 lands. The 18 land deck was nice, but I felt that I was missing white mana too often and even in my wins I would have a card or two left over that I could play with extra land. Because I am also running one four drop now I think the additional land will be necessary. I still run the deck at 61 cards (I know some of you hate that, but's it a thing I do) so it's really more like 18.7 lands. After all of my tinkering around I think I may finally be very close to my ideal 61.
Here is the current list:
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Abbot of Keral Keep
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Instant/Sorcery
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Distortion Strike
2 Emerge Unscathed
3 Path to Exile
2 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Ojutai's Command
1 Boros Charm
2 Vapor Snag
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Seachrome Coast
1 Slayer’s Stronghold
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Faerie Conclave
I have my notes from FNM this week that I will detail tomorrow. The opponents were Grixis Control, Collected Company Zoo, Tron, and Abzan and we 4-0!
I will also be testing with my test group tomorrow evening so please let me know if there are any matchups you would like me to test against and take notes or if there are any cards you would like me to test out.
We can now consistently beat unfair decks at very little cost to our fair match-ups.
With fine tuning; this archetype is certainly Tier 2.0 at minimum. It can beat all of the top Tier decks (and BTL increases the win percentage quite a lot!).
Harmonize has been surprisingly strong. To be honest, I never used it that much in the past; but I have been very happy with it. I'm up to Two copies (four if you count both BTL's
That's really cool! Eidolon is something that has come up a couple times in here and so far it's pretty much agreed upon that (a) it is a great card and (b) none of us have made it work yet
There are just so many interactions and cool things we can do. I just played a game that reminded me of the infinite combo I may not have mentioned in the past (two Garruks, an Eternal Witness, a Curio, and another creature). In this case, the "other creature" was a bird. Used this loop to "go infinite" and make infinite 3/3 tokens. The archetype certainly is powerful enough. The trick is just striking the balance between power, speed, and consistency...
Please keep us informed of how the deck performs and other cool interactions you find in your playing/testing.
I've been going crazy with all of the ideas/synergies/interactions we have. Not to mention the tutors! I know I may look a little crazy; but here's what I've been testing recently;
4x Arbor Elf
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Eternal Witness
4x Genesis Hydra
1x Primeval Titan
Enchantment (12)
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Fertile Ground
4x Abundant Growth
Artifact (2)
2x Cloudstone Curio
Instant/Sorcery (4)
2x Bring to Light
1x Primal Command
1x Harmonize
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Nissa, Worldwaker
Land (21)
7x Forest
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Stomping Ground
1x Breeding Pool
1x Murmuring Bosk
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Kessig Wolf Run
2x Spellskite
1x Bring to Light
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Silent Arbiter
1x Thragtusk
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Slaughter Games
1x Creeping Corrosion
1x Crumble to Dust
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Karn Liberated
1x Primal Command
** EDIT - Added a 1-of Primeval Titan **
It's not necessarily meant to be a "final" deck. I really am just trying to explore what I can do with Bring to Light in the build. I also tried a 1-of Time Warp but it got pretty complex (as you could Witness back the warp over and over with Curio...just seemed like the deck was getting too complex at that point.
I'm really just looking at what Bring to Light can mean for Green Devotion after so many great ideas (and its original suggestion by other community members on our forum). It's been so good in the board, that I wanted to explore its main-board use as well (as many of us are). Thus far, I like it as an additional copy of Harmonize, Witness, or Command.
There are issues, however. Mainly simply because we know have too many great options!
It's very difficult to get any better than Genesis Wave, Witness, Tooth and Nail, Command, and/or Primeval Titan. New cards have to be REALLY good to take up slots where these cards would go. I'm not certain which of the "newer" cards do this (Genesis Hydra, Bring to Light, etc.) but I'm tearing my brain apart to see what they can do. As always, I'll let you know what I find. I'll also write out the old Merfolk/other match ups just in case (to keep up to date).
I really would just like to get to a "set" list for each archetype (or at least a set "core" for each Walker, Tooth and Nail, Traditional, Silver Bullet, and Stompy Ddvotion decks).
The main problem now is we have too many interesting options...especially when it comes to "tutor" cards. There are great synergies between all of these cards:
1. Primal Command can tutor for any creature (including Eternal Witness and Genesis Hydra
2. Genesis Hydra can hit any non-land permanent (including Witness, walkers, etc.)
3. Genesis Wave hits all legal permanents it reveals of course.
4. Bring to Light can tutor for any creature, instant, or sorcery of 5-CMC or less (depending on mana).
There are issues thought:
1. Genesis Wave can't hit Genesis Hydra, Bring to Light, or Primal Command
2. Genesis Hydra can't hit Bring to Light, Genesis Wave, or Primal Command.
3. Bring to Light can't tutor for Genesis Wave (it can for Hydra via Command, but not directly).
So basically, you have to hit the right tutors in the right order (or build the deck to take the most advantage of some assortment of only a few of them).
** More being Typed (on Phone)**
I love the outside the box thinking. However, I agree with AshtonKutcher on this one.
It looks like it could be a good card. Heck, any card that says "draw a card" at instant speed for less than 3 mana needs to be seriously looked at. However, it just doesn't play out very well (in my experience). Most decks in modern want general answers due to the wide open nature of the decks you might face in a given tournament. I thought this card might work in the sideboard where more situational cards typically live, but I tried it in my sideboard for a week or two and it was still just to conditional and wasn't getting sided in enough to warrant a slot.