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The Magic Market Index for Jan 12, 2018
 
Treasure Cruisin' Tempered Steel
 
The Magic Market Index for Jan 5, 2018
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Hey Curdbros, I wouldn't be so hesitant about your walkers list. I think it's pretty strong. I ended up taking a similar version to my FNM on Thursday and took 1st place with it (4-0/8-1 matches). I believe the mixture of big butts with planeswalker backup is a pretty solid plan against a lot of decks, and the ones you can't really deal with you can always sideboard for. Here is what I brought:


    Sideboard was meant to beat Control, Tron, graveyard decks and burn. I think the 4 Courser in the main already help in a lot of aggro matchups, so Finks would just round that out.

    Overall I played against 2 Jeskai Flash decks, a Temur Flash deck, and 8 rack. Nothing super unfair, which I believe is this decks weakness. I ended up bringing in Carnage Tyrant in 3 of the rounds, and he was the nail in the coffin. Against counters, being able to Genesis Hydra into one is just unfair lol.

    Anyway, I do think a superfriends list has merit, as it dodges the problems that Pact deck has with board wipes and spot removal. A lot of the times when playing a lot of little dudes, you feel real bad when they all get wiped, and there's no real way to come back. Luckily with this, you need a hard wipe to really get the same effect (Supreme Verdict/Damnation), your things stick around longer for sure. You sacrifice explosive one-turn wins for a grindy win yes, but it's not really a bad thing. You should win out in the end regardless. Anyway I dig a version like this, I think it can be tinkered with depending on the meta.

    One nice interaction I found was the flip-side of Garruk Relentless being able to tutor up creatures. If I owned more than one, I would definitely like to try him out in a more creature-centric list like Just_Me's Smile

    Next week I'll be throwing together a Ghalta list and bringing that in most likely. Cheers all!



    That’s awesome!! 8-1 to win the whole thing is impressive.

    I have been very happy with the deck. It took me a little while to get used to the speed of the deck (as turns 1,2, and sometimes 3 are very similar to all Green Devotion decks) but it’s turns 4+ that are different)...I do agree it is important to have a few blockers up front to both add Devotion and protect the walkers.

    You become much more of a Control deck this way. I absolutely love it though. You just bury the opponent in value...you may not finish them off until turn 7; but you essentially win on turn 4.

    I like your list (and really like the simplicity of the board)...I would like to get another Ob Nixilis and really want another Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh in the deck as well...Bolas GP is outrageously powerful in a deck like this. I would say if all of the Walkers I tried just to see how they would play, Nicol Bolas GP was the most surprising (as I didn’t think it’s abilities we suited for Modern as well as others)....

    I love the idea of Carnage Tyrant. Genesis Hydra is the death-knell for Control; but even decks heavy with spot removal probably struggle with it.

    P.S. I may have to try a 3/2 split if Birds/Sylvan Caryatid (with no Fertile Ground). Makes it a little less weak to both land destruction as well as Chalice on 1...good call.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    This is the Superfriends list I've been playing the last few days:

    Devoted Friends (Jund)



    I know that Huatli looks out of place, but it has been really good at closing out games (which is needed in this deck as it is VERY controlling).

    _______


    To answer the question against storm...Right now, I side in:

    2x Abrupt Decay
    2x Scavenging Ooze
    1x Grafdiggers Cage
    2x Trinisphere
    1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed

    And Side out:

    1x Huatli, Radiant Champion
    1x Fertile Ground
    2x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
    4x Oath of Nissa

    I take the oaths out because they don't hit Decay, Trinisphere, or Cage...The Nissas and Hautli are taken out because you don't really have the need for filling up/stalling the board.

    ** Edit **

    Trying Blood Moon in the Fulminatir Mage Slots in the board.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from lord_darkview »
    Quote from CurdBros »
    I also forgot to ask...how has your deck been doing? Any recent changes? I know you e been really strong with Primal Command and also played Devoted Druid for a time. I’m sure the community would be really interested in hearing an update about how that archetype has been.

    My life has recently become rather more complicated. MtG is on the backburner for a bit, so I haven't had opportunity to do any substantive testing or updating.


    I can only hope it has been complicated in a good way (i.e. birth of a child, meeting new partner, new job, etc.). You don't have to spare any details, but if there is anything we as a community can do to help (in the event of difficulties) please let us know (and/or PM me).
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from lord_darkview »
    @Curdbros

    Scavenging Ooze is interactive because it shuts down graveyard dependent plans, which means weakening Tarmogoyf, disrupting Angler or Tsaigur, negating Snapcaster/Rallier/Witness triggers, countering opposing Cranial Extractions, and more.


    I also forgot to ask...how has your deck been doing? Any recent changes? I know you e been really strong with Primal Command and also played Devoted Druid for a time. I’m sure the community would be really interested in hearing an update about how that archetype has been.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Rendroc »
    So it's been apparent to me that since Tony's near top 8 result, more people are brewing with Green Devotion. I've run into a greater number of Devotion decks on Cockkatrice recently.

    One deck someone play an Eldrazi based devotion deck.

    Today I played against a deck running The Chain Veil, a card I forgot about. It's definitely a sweet card and should certainly be considered in Walker decks. I'm definitely going to brew a bit with this when I get a chance.


    That’s awesome!!!

    I thought about the Chain Veil with Garruk and Tezzerret but I think I got too far down the rabbit hole (as I tend to do Smile ). I didn’t give any time to the idea though...it’s really cool that someone made it work. Hopefully they post it here sometime.

    It’s exciting to see Green Devotion get a little more popular. Anthony really helped in a big way (as it could have been bad given Decandio’s difficulties with Devotion in the same tourney...likely just bad matchups). It is such an amazingly fun mechanic that a lot of people will be drawn to it.

    Thanks for posting this. It’s great to hear about Cockatrice and other places where Modern are played.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from lord_darkview »
    @Curdbros

    Scavenging Ooze is interactive because it shuts down graveyard dependent plans, which means weakening Tarmogoyf, disrupting Angler or Tsaigur, negating Snapcaster/Rallier/Witness triggers, countering opposing Cranial Extractions, and more.


    Yes it does...assuming you have the mana (which we often do). I don’t remember saying Scavenging Ooze wasn’t interactive. I’ve had it in a majority of my recent boards (especially creature-based/heavy boards). I think it’s possibly our most versatile “graveyard interaction” card.

    I hadn’t thought of the Cranial Extraction interaction. That’s awesome!
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Random Combos

    So...you guys know I like to brew...I've been focusing on the Walker brew...but a few random things popped into my brain during my testing:

    1. +

    I've done a lot of Curio builds...but this is the first time a creature allowed for an infinite combo with ANY other creature...if you can generate 11 mana, Zacama, Curio, and a Dork will create infinite mana! I've already got a build together (just because of my extensive testing with Curio in the past) but I can't test it until I've finished testing the Superfriends list (which I can't do until this weekend because my buddy and I are working on the Primer now)...

    2. +

    Liliana Vess fixes the issues that Primal Surge presents...(a) you can only play one copy and (b) you can't play a non-permanent way of tutoring for it (as you can't play any other non-permanents if you want max value from Surge). Liliana puts Surge on top of your deck and then you can either use any way to draw of the top or just wait a turn and then cast Primal Surge to play out your entire deck. Primal Surge is a card I get asked about A LOT; so I thought I'd point this out for anyone wanting to play the card.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    I'm pretty sure I will be adding the red back in as I find that Chandra TOD, Chandra Flamecaller, and a 1-of Xenagos are stronger than the cards I replaced them with...
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from dos_rogue »
    that gets me brewing, cards like Ramgang and Liege weren't anywhere on my radar. that would power up some serious fire breathing abilities.


    It is a powerful beatdown deck. With the right sideboard I could see the deck being viable. When I tried it I also had a 1-of Nylea, God of the Hunt (for trample when not overrunning Garruk) but now that Rhonas exists it may be a better choice. Of course, it may not be necessary.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quick question for everyone...

    Do you think 3 Colors of walkers can be played reliably with the following fixing:

    4x Utopia Sprawl
    4x Oath of Nissa
    4x Birds of Paradise
    1x Abundant Growth
    3-4 x Genesis Hydra (as it “fixes” in the sense that it can “Reveal/Play” a walker of any color.

    _____

    I promise I’ll be done bewing Walker decks soon (i will find a tuned list Smile ). I just really want to deeply explore the space again now that another dozen walkers have been printed since I explored walkers before (and 20+ more since the OG walker combo decks...I’m old Frown ). I don’t want to take up all the space with one idea when there are people doing amazing things with Pact Lists, Tooth and Nail lists, Primal Command lists, etc.

    P.S. The Primer will be up tomorrow. My buddy is coming over to see where I’ve screwed up the formatting (he’s a computer/coding wiz). He’ll fix whatever I’ve screwed up!




    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Just_Me »
    Hi all,

    For a ´Walker deck, when does it become a deck with that nickname? I am a little surprised that the GR is fairly controlling. Mine version is more agressive, getting really strong synergy and speed across (4/4 satyrs for example!). Here is a rough list.



    I tend to call things a walker deck when they have 10+ walkers...I have seen some “Superfriends” decks (like MtgGoldfish’s Mardu Superfriends) with only 8-9 walkers too.

    Boattusk Liege and Xenagos tokens are a lot of fun together:)
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    When I've played walking ballista, it never really does enough. At most, I can get 4 counters on it, but then why not play an 8-drop in that case? It feels terrible to pay 4 mana to kill a 2/2 early game too. I think you would need to play in a meta with a lot of affinity/elves/infect for it to really make a difference.


    That’s kinda what I was talking about. I love the card for many reasons; but creature removal (especially outside of 1-2 toughness) is relatively low on the list. I don’t personally consider it super “interactive” until later in the game (when you start generating 10+ Mana
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Rendroc »
    It's also has a much higher curve and isn't so much more disruptive than any of my Walker decks. Hornet Queen adds disruption and so does Scooze. I think Karn is perhaps just worse than a bunch of other options. You could even play LotV. If you want disruption I'd rather have Mastermind's Acquisition able to get the best hoser for the moment.


    I would say they only list that would be considered comparatively as "interactive" as my list would be your black list. And the curves look pretty similar:

    My List:

    1 - 16
    2 - 2
    3 - 6
    4 - 5
    5 - 2
    6 - 2
    7+ - 3
    V = 4

    Your List:

    1 - 15
    2 - 1
    3 - 7
    4 - 6
    5 - 2
    6 - 2
    7+ - 2
    V = 4

    These are extremely similar curves...nearly identical.

    I do see how Scavenging Ooze could be considered an "interactive" card (and it is a card I like)...I'm not certain i would replace Leyline of the Void with them...but its actually quite close!) I wouldn't, however, consider Hornet Queen an "interactive" card. It can block amazingly; but that is the sum of its interaction (outside of playing other cards like fight effects...but then the fight card is the actual interactive card).

    I’m a big fan of Walking Ballista. It is the star of my +1/+1 Counters Matter deck and it is essentially a 4-of in every non-Walker deck I play (and I would love to get another one or more in this 75)...I think it opened up a world of possibilities for Devotion (and expanded the type of decks we can play by giving us direct damage). On top of this, it absolutely gives us some form of creature removal in a pinch (especially in the later turns). Having said this, it is often not fast enough to be considered tried and true creature removal. I know Anthony S. already discussed this a few pages back, but I'll add a little where I can to help discuss why I don't consider it pure "creature removal" even in the lists where I play it in the current Metagame.

    Baral has 3-toughness, so it requires 6-mana to kill it (and that will also "kill" your Ballista...where things like Garruk Relentless, Ob Nixilis, and Chandra will stick around after the kill)...even Vraska (which costs the same amount of mana) still also sticks around and gives you a treasure. The same is true of Gurmag Angler, Tasigur, Deaths Shadow, Master of Etherium, a single pumped Mantis Rider/Human, Wurmcoil Engine, Worldbreaker, Reality Smasher, Thought-Knot Seer, Primeval Titan, Bedlam Reveler, Deceiver Exarch, Tarmogoyf, etc (this list came from my looking at the creatures from the top 12 decks per MTGGoldfish's Modern Metagame of main-deck creatures only and does not include many from G/R Ponza). Like I said, I do see Walking Ballista as an interactive card and an amazing mana-sink....just not a great form of consistent creature removal.

    So you don’t get the efficiency of a pure removal spell nor the universal power of walkers that say “destroy/exile” target creature...Ballista makes up for this in its versatility...but it does have its constraints.

    I would be super interested, however, to know what "bunch of other options" would be better than Karn though. Any better card is well worth testing. I have found that a turn 3 (and in most cases a turn 4) Karn ends up winning the game 90%+ of the time. That being said, the same could be true of the card(s) that replace Karn as well (I'm always open to trying different cards/ideas). The use of Karn gets back to the theory of "Ramp Deck Purpose" and "The Best X Deck" philosophy's I've talked about in the past. I will post what I mean in the following post in spoilers (so I'm not wasting a bunch of space here).

    Having said all of this...I will absolutely try some Walking ballista's in place of the Karns (and maybe drop to 3 Hydras with the Addition of Ballista's main given they are somewhat of a "nombo"). Anything that can improve the deck is well worth testing! Please do let me know of the other options you were speaking of and I will try them too.

    P.S. Let me know if you try out Masrerminds Acquisition. My concern with the card was that we didn’t play Diabolic Edict before; so I’d the addition of a sideboard card in game one for 4 additional mana worth it? It may be. I can’t say without testing. If you do test it; I’d love to hear about it.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from dos_rogue »
    we really need wizards to print a Vizier of the Menagerie for planeswalkers.

    @Curdbros

    that deck feels too heavy on the dork end of things. 4 arbor elf is always a must, but after that 4 birds of paradise usually the best pick, or anythign else that mana dorks! but after the 8th dork I feel it gets excessive. Like the sylvan caryatids and carven caryatid should all be utility slots. go full Carven over the sylvans in my opinion.

    those 4 spots maybe should be beast within/pyroclasm/maelstrom pulse. something that deals with what the walkers couldn't handle.

    i like the list though, I feel like that is almost where my Garruk's list should be. though in those 4 random slots. I think i want to run a crazy card called reap and sow this would be utility against tron and some others, but also fetches when needed, lands that tool box match ups, its not quite primeval titan, but would do some serious work.



    Wouldn’t that be awesome. I think the closest we are gonna get is Oath of Nissa :). Not that I’m complaining about Oath...

    I do see what you’re saying about the Caryatids...initially I based the mana suite partially off of “Doubling Stevens” a planeswaker combo deck by Todd Stevens. He actually plays four Sylvan Caryatid on top of a full set of Elves, Sprawls, and Birds. It is vitally important that the deck get to at least four mana by turn 3 and at least five mana by turn 4 that although I’ve cut a few...I’m weary to cut them all.

    You are absolutely right about dorks though. In a traditional Devotion deck, I would never advise anything more than the fourth Bird (most times I only play 3)...but traditional Devotion tends to play a slightly different curve with more 2-3 drops (with things like Pact to smooth out the situations where they would only play anything above 4-cmc to essentially win the game).

    Having said this; I should 100% at least test without the Sylvan Caryatids. Theory like mine above is all well and good...but in my experience theory is 1/100th as useful as actual testing against actual opponents. I certainly will try it though (as if the deck can perform as consistently with a utility card in the place of a dork than that’s a great improvement!).

    P.S. Small random side note...you don't need to have answers to every possible thing in the main board. I don't know if board wipes or necessary in the main or things like that. That is what the board is for. 2 of of 3 games will be played with sideboards...so it is important to make sure your main deck is a sold, focused game plan (while of course still having answers to most common items if you are planning on interacting with the opponent)...and things that you may otherwise struggle with can be sided in.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    @Rendroc

    I think the White list is the overall "best" list because I think the Ballista/Finks/Nissa +1 counter synergies are the best (Ajani really does work in that list). As you said though, this makes sense given the time we put into it. I do think it can vary with different metas though. I currently am in more of a "Interactive" place; which is why I brought up Red/Black Walkers recently. I do think you and Dos Rogue are right to focus more on a single color. As I outlined a few days ago; I moved to a "black" list (rather than a Jund list) and have been testing it. Here is where I am currently at:


    Golagari Walker Devotion V1.0


    I noted the discussion on the difficulties of Walker lists with Aggro and Combo...and thus far I’ve actually had the opposite hold true (at least in terms of the black walkers). The interaction has given me the ability to keep the opponents off their plan while still building my board...and the tokens and butts have made Aggro pretty beatable.

    It’s possible I haven’t played enough games though (as I’ve only played about 40 thus far with this version)...if I begin to notice more issues with Aggro, Go Wide, and/or Combo; I will post it here (and us comparison to other Devotion decks).
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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