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The World of Kamigawa
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Eldritch Evolution has been surprisingly strong. I’m not a huge proponent for card “disadvantage” (as you’re technically spending two cards to get one); but when that card is a combo piece or a card that is a 2-for-1 or more...it is powerful.

    It is interesting because we play up the curve.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Welcome BowAndArrow2 and GreenHedron! I'm so glad you posted. I'm working on upgrading/updating the Primer now; but I'm glad you found us and have found the discussion helpful.


    Quote from BowAndArrow2 »
    Thanks Uegjo, I appreciate your input. I agree that Storm is a bad matchup, but I played it so many time with Genesis Wave and it feel worse. DS is tough, but it's one of the reason I'm using BM main (with Valakut, E-Tron, Tron and Control). I also agree with you that Storm and DS are tier 1 deck currently. So what if we try CoTV in sideboard ? Something like this :

    Sideboard:15
    1 Obstinate Baloth
    1 Hornet Queen
    2 Lightning Bolt
    1 Nature's Claim
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Heroic Intervention
    2 Chalice of the Void
    2 Anger of the Gods
    1 Witchbane Orb
    1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All

    CoTV on 1 is really rough for DS and we can cast it on 2 with a good hand on turn 2 for Storm. For DS since we have around 8 1 drop, I suggest we cut some Arbor Elf after game 1. Do you think it's a viable option ?



    Interesting thought on playing Chalice...it’s interesting to think we could use a card that is actually traditionally brought in against us!

    I think you COULD build your deck around it; but you run into the issue where you need the 1-CMC spells to cast it quickly (so you kinda want a volume of them to see one on turn 1), but you also “turn them off” with Chalice.

    You could do some stuff with Cavern of Souls (play Arbor Elf, Elvish Mystic, Devoted Druid, etc. and name Elf)...and Chalice is definitely good in our bad matchups (and likely not expected by our opponents); but I’m certain it can just be boarded in most Devotion decks...

    Having said that, we do tend to play up the curve more than most; and likely would have already casted a 1-drop prior to playing Chalice...so I could be wrong. I havent tried it; so I can’t be certain about how it works in real play. Just my thoughts in theory would say it can be done; but may be clunky in builds that don’t build around it at least marginally.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Current List



    I haven't decided whether to play Fauna Shaman or a 1-of Eldritch Evolution. Fauna is a creature which is big (and can grab a Ballista); but Evolution may be better (as you don't need a creature card in hand.) What do you guys/gals think?

    Possible Changes

    1. Would like another Whisperwood Elemental somewhere in the 75.

    2. Would like a Nature’s Claim effect in the board (artifact/enchantment destruction not tied to creature).

    3. Would like one more small creature removal in the board (I.e. 1-2 drop removal).

    4. I go back and forth on a 1-of Garruk, Caller of Beasts...the card is amazing. I just have to find the slot that is least useful.

    5. May cut to only 2 Birds...it’s tough though because (a) a 1-drop accelerant is paramount to the deck, and (b) being 3-colors is not easy to ensure access to every color when you need it (every time you need it at the moment you need it).

    It’s just a matter of deciding which board cards aren’t necessary/underpowered.

    I’ve also tinkered with a list that is a bit less Chord-centric (with a few copies of Lead the Stampede, many less 1-if’s, etc.) but I haven’t got enough time in on it to say it is worth it or to develop a different board).

    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Quote from MrTzoulis »
    To be frank I've never found the pre-board matchup to be unfavorable, probably closer to 50-50, 55-45 for us. Although, to be fair a chalice on 1 t2 probably means we're losing that game, but they don't run THAT much removal and their dismembers help us.

    Now, as for sideboarding, I'm bringing in Wear//Tear, my 3 Blood Moons and my 2 Deflecting Palms and it turns out favorable (Mindcensor is a recent addition so and it hasn't been tried against Etron). I'd wager a 60-40, but there aren't that many players of Etron at my store, so be skeptical about my results.

    Now, I played yesterday a 20man TNM in my store and I'm happy to say that I went 5-0! Grin (so close to the 10-0)



    I'm just fine tuning the list but I still want to get a 3rd Spell Pierce in the main, so Brainstorm ideas please! Chart a Course continues to be amazeballs (Foils arrived :D) and helping me keep up with other control decks, haven't managed to play with any GDS or Abzan deck with my revised list though. I know in general you haven't tried Hazoret, the Fervent too much, Curdbro is in love with Bedlam Reveler for example, but she keeps destroying games for me. I think I've got around 90% win ration when I resolve one. Especially with the printing of Chart a Course I don't really think we need the effect of Reveler, because we can now keep up with control decks and recover from a fair amount of discards. Granted, In my list Pyromancers are a massive headache for those decks, but still...

    I faced 2 Bant Knightfall decks where pyromancers were OP, giving me free blocks while I was either clearing the board and/or cantriping away and eventually my reach and flyers got through. I destroyed one esper control deck, admittedly in the first game he had natural mana problems, and in the 2nd because of Blood Moon. :p
    The last couple of matches was against burn, which I'm delighted to say I the 3 helices and the counters help alot and one GW hatebears deck which couldn't keep up with my removal.

    Before the event I playetested with a friend of mine who also plays Esper Control, a much better build than the one I won in the even, and we ended like 4-1 in my favor preboard, and the 1 win he took it because he found the 1 path he needed to deal with my hazoret and then ran away with the game by playing 3 gideons and gaining cards with search for azcanta. I'm dubious on the jeskai tempo/control deck that's been showing up in SCG and GP events, but if previous experience is any indication we should be favored against them as well.


    Congrats on the 5-0!! I have had a lot of good results in a row too. I think the deck is just super well positioned right now. I agree about E Tron as well. In theory it should be a tough matchup, but my results so otherwise. It always seems like Remand just stops their huge threat and I kill them before they can get to the top end. Like you said, a chalice can spell an early ending, but other than that I have had great luck against them.

    That's so crazy that you say that you want a 3rd Spell Pierce. I just added a second copy into my main deck. It is just so good right now and fits in so well with Opt. I totally agree with you on that topic.

    It's true that I have a special place in my heart for Bedlam Reveler. He is just so great in the top end of a more aggressive build. With that said, Chart a Course may give that necessary card advantage to keep up with midrange decks. I did play a split of reveler/hazoret for a little while. Both were great in their own right. I really don't think Reveler is a better choice than Hazoret. They both are great finishers that offer what our deck needs at the top end- reach. Reveler through additional cards and Hazoret through hasty damage and through the discard damage. I will have to test Hazoret again. My main concern is just having too many cards in hand to attack or block with Hazoret. It's rare my hand is empty or at one card unless I know I am going to be casting a Bedlam Reveler.

    Blood Moon has always interested me in the side board. I have a personal hatred for the card because I don't like the type of gameplay it causes so that's probably what has kept me from putting it in my sideboard. Do you just fetch island and plains early and cast it or do you side out a lot of the white cards? I typically need all three colors fairly early in the game so I have never thought of blood moon being a great option, but it obviously is working well for you. This is why I love the boards because you can learn so much from other members and try new things that just might make your deck better.

    I wish there were more bant knightfall players around here. I literally have never played against that deck in an event or anything. It looks like a really fun matchup to play. Young P does sound great in that matchup and works well with Chart a Course because you can just attack with a 1/1 even if it might die to get the 2 additional cards. You have a supply of attackers for chart a course.

    The matchup I have been grinding lately is UR Storm. That will be next weeks matchup discussion. Anybody else have E-tron analysis?
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Matchup discussion of the week - Eldrazi Tron -

    Eldrazi Tron Matchup-

    Preboard- 40/60 unfavored- This deck is a weird one for sure. I would say we are unfavored by theory. With that said, it seems like I always either win easily or lose easily. It basically comes down to two things- do they have a chalice in their opening hand or do they have tron by turn 3. If both of those answers are no, we are probably winning the game. I have played this deck many times and they either go nuts and win or basically keep playing lands, expedition maps, and mind stones and do nothing. I, for one, could not play this deck and I totally understand why it was the actual worst deck in terms of conversion rate on day 2 in the SCG modern tournament last week.

    Gameplan- My gameplan in game one against them is the basic level 1 game plan of our deck. Land an early threat or a mid game threat and keep the board as clean as possible. Save your removal for the larger threats. Remand is an absolute house in this matchup if they don't draw Cavern of Souls. I would go as far as to say it's the best card in the matchup. Spell Pierce is also extremely good here against an early Chalice of Void. Another very underated play is to spell pierce or wera/tear their early expedition map. They need a ton of mana to implement their gameplan and a bump in the road is sometimes all we need to win. Because they don't play any fliers and don't play a lot of early removal, Delver of Secrets is also very good against them.

    Sideboard cards- Ceremonious Rejection, Blessed Alliance, Wear // Tear, Deflecting Palm, Shattering Spree, Stony Silence

    Post board- 50/50- even

    Gameplan- My gameplan post board is a bit more tempo oriented than in game one although the strategy stays the same for the most part. Deflecting Palm gives us a very cool option if they land a big beater. It's especially great against Wurmcoil Engine and Batterskull because they don't get the life gain. I tend to be more aggressive post board to kill them quickly because I have access to deflecting palm. Ceremonious Rejection is obviously great against them. There are no sure fire sideboard cards against ETron that really flip the matchup, but we have plenty of removal and counter magic to utilize an aggro/control or tempo gameplan to beat them regularly.

    In the end Eldrazi tron is a super weird matchup. It can be a nightmare or sweet dream. I have had very good results against them actually, but based on theory alone and on what other have said, I have to say that this is tough matchup for us. What do you guys/gals think?
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Agree with both of you. I'm not a huge fan of ETB tapped lands (especially Garden) and I'm surprised he didn't add 2x Witnesses. He has the Craterhoof in the board...but I don't really understand why it's not in the main.

    It is nice, however, to see Devotion getting a lot more focus than it used to.

    My brother just informed me that TCGplayer also has an article that also mentions the Devoted Druid/Vizier of Remedies combo in Green Devotion:

    http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=14238&writer=Adam Yurchick&articledate=10-19-2017

    Again, it's just a mention and appears to be Uegjo's deck (or taken from it) but it is still nice to see Devotion getting some more love Smile And he is right...we really are a good shell for the combo.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Man....going back over my notes; I’m surprised by how many games I’ve won with the Vizier Combo. I guess the argument could be made that in many of those games I may have won anyways...but I just am surprised how many games I noted “Hit Combo With X”
    (With X being Chord, Ballista, Duskwatch, Hydra, etc. that was a meams to ending the game on the spot).

    Organizing/editing; but will provide numbers/findings soon for the Devoted list (playing Chord rather than Primal Command)
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Yet another article on a take on Devotion....it looks more and more like pros are starting to try to find ways to make it work as well:

    http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36034_Video-Itlimoc-Genesis-Wave-In-Modern.html

    Funnily enough...I have a little blurb about Carven Caryatid in my current Chord blurb/write up (as I have been playing it in my Chord build over the last 40 or so matches)...so it was interesting to see him using it as well. It actually fits better in his list; but I do think it can be played in other Devotion decks (even though it is somewhat of a "nombo" with Garruk Overrun and Craterhoof.


    Quote from lord_darkview »
    Quote from jaccjacc »
    With a 20 Land Deck Oath makes it possible to decrease the amount of mulligans significantly.
    However there seems to be a cut off, depending on how many non-targets you play.
    It the traditional Devotion I played for a long time, I needed to trim them down because of Primal Commands. This is also the case when I side in Relic of Progenitus, Creeping Corrosion, etc I will cut oaths, since the deck gets filled with cards i cannot hit of oath.
    However if the SB card can be hit by oath i'm leaving them in, since they increase the chance of hitting them.

    This is exactly the situation I'm in. This is what convinced me to try a non-Oath build. It also leaves me free to experiment with Pact.

    Quote from CurdBros »
    Blast from the WAY past...Ross Merriam wrote an article about my very first deck in Devotion (Elf Devotion). I don't mean to suggest his article has anything to do with my past lists, etc. it doesn’t. I was just saying it was fun to see him mention the power of Nykthos in an Elf build as that is how I got my start in Devotion when it was first released(I.e. when Nykthos was spoiled).

    I quit Elf Devotion because it didn’t seem any better (or terribly different outside of Wave) from the “regular” elves lists. To be honest, Merriams List is EXTREMELY similar to other Wlves lists (and less like my “Devoted Elves” lists of the past; but he does discuss Nykthos so I thought it was worth posting.

    Maybe now there is more too it (with Devoted Druid being a Combo with Ezuri too...I mentioned it last week that I was fooling around with Elves; but in all honesty I’ve spent the last two weeks really focused on my Chord list. It is gong GREAT! I will play around with Elf Devotion again; but it likely will just look a ton like my current Chord list.

    I’m currently 41-17 in matches with my Chord list (although there were small changes within this spread to the board and my 3-drop slot). I have a big write up outlining choices and match ups I’ll post tonight. I wasn’t going to post until then; but Ross Merriam’s article was exciting to read and I thought I should let everyone know about it.

    http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36015_My-Three-Options-For-SCG-Cincinnati.html

    Lead the stampeded is such a cool card...if I played a list with less Walkers and Enchantments(or 30+ creatures) I would consider it.

    ______

    Quote from Rendroc »
    I run have only 2 Pacts in my Garruk Green deck, but Oath hits everything else. Oath is fantastic. Adds mana with Nykthos, finds a key land, or or spell, reveals a new top card for Courser, and it's effect is strictly better than Sleight of Hand in the deck.


    This is true. It is great in decks with high Walker/Creature/Land counts. As I said, it was a HUGE boon to the walker decks I had played prior to Oath's printing (made them viable). I tried to play Garruk Green BEFORE the rule because I loved Oath so much Smile

    Having said that, I don't think it is for every Devotion deck. More importantly, or at least more common is the fact that some Devotion decks just shouldn't play more than 2 copies of Oath. I would have said that was blasphemy 6 months ago...but I do think that some decks just don't get the same "bang for the buck" that other Devotion decks do.

    In my years with devotion, I've found that Devotion decks are VERY fickle. What works in one is not guaranteed to work in another.

    Put the rest in a Spoiler because it gets deep into "philosophy" of Devotion deck:

    The main components I've found that effect the "nature" and/or success of a devotion deck are:

    1. The amount of card draw/digging is available in the deck. (i.e. Card Draw)
    2. The curve of the deck (especially in the 2-4 drop portion of the deck) (i.e. Curve)
    3. The Chosen Win-conditions (i.e. Win-Con Choice)

    All devotion decks in one way or another are "big mana" decks. The decks are generally broken into "Ramp", "Support", and "Win-Conditions". Ramp cards (generally 1-2 drops) are what we play first, "Support" cards (generally 2-4) often play dual roles; but really "bridge" the deck between the early ramp and big-mana win-cons. The support cards tend to smooth out the deck; because every game isn't going to be as easy as playing a few ramp cards and then immediately casting 8-drops. The Win-Conditions are the cards that end the game and often tend to be our big mana cards. The amount and style of each of the above cards, however, is dependent on the above three elements (card draw, curve, and win-con choice).

    1. The more cards you draw and the faster/further you dig through your deck; the greater the likelihood you will have a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in play. Of course, certain cards will not "hit" a Nykthos, but in general the faster you "draw" through the deck, the greater the chance to hit a specific card. This changes the "average" math you factor in to turns 3-6.

    2. As far as the curve is concerned...I tend to play decks with a lot of 1-2 drops and far less 3-drops (with a few more variable cards). This isn't necessarily "better" (in some match ups it is, in others it is not); but it does change a few important factors. The most important of these is that the deck can generally (on average) play well on only 1 Land between turns 1-3 and less lands in general. Of course it is ideal to hit 1 and exactly 1 land drop each turn; but the deck can function on very few lands. Decks with a heavy focus on 3-5 drops will often really need to hit their first two land drops on turns one and two (and three to some extent). I think Oath of Nissa performs very will in such decks as it can really help ensure land drops are hit.

    3. The choice of win-con greatly effects the way the ramp and support cards are chosen. Tooth and Nail Decks often will want to hit 7-9 mana quickly. Other devotion decks may not need to hit quite that high a number, hit the Devoted Druid combo, etc. Also, some utilize means of reduction to more quickly get to their "high drops" and/or utilize more mana-sinks. This changes whether you choose Courser of Overgrowth at 3-CMC.

    I generally start with the win-conditions and build the deck from there...but the above gets into stuff we could write literal pages and pages about (and is what the Primer needs to partially do)...but the above is just a long-winded way of saying that Oath doesn't necessarily fit in every single devotion deck. Smile




    I was thinking it might be time for a primer update. I remember I did a lot of the early Oath math, and my perspective has matured a bit. We also have Druid and other splashes that are receiving serious consideration.

    Quote from Worldsaverinc »
    Looks like he is just relying on being faster or more resilant than burn ie. forcing burn to react to him than the other way around.

    Burn was always somewhat favorable (though never a guarantee). This is especially true if you play some number of Command and Courser. If they don't have a Skullcrack for Command, they lose. If Courser lands, they likely lose unless they can remove it economically (eg: you block Swiftspear, and they have a Searing Blaze/Blood. In your SB, you have life gain cards that are incidentally good versus everyone else.



    Looking back to these classic builds does have me missing my Coursers. Helping ensure land drops, adding devotion, a life trickle, and land drops was nice all in one card. Unfortunately, I don't think it's a sufficient blocker anymore: Affinity flies, Elves trample, Merfolk islandwalk, and Eldrazi are just too big.


    -----


    I'm looking at two builds for the tourney, and would appreciate some comments and thoughts.

    The A build is much closer to what I'm playing now, and is very classic in a lot of ways. It has the few elements that red adds, at a cost of taking potentially a bunch more pain damage (which is not irrelevant). Cards are singlehandedly powerful to the point of overwhelming, but more mana-intensive. The only cards that I'd need to pick up beforehand are the Bonfires in the SB.

    The B build is something that I threw together in reaction to the amount of pain I was taking from lands, and a few occasions where my mana producers got killed and I stalled out below the Titan threshold. The costs mostly cap out at 4 mana, but the inclusion of Wolfbriars, Gods, and Polukranos gives a lot of upside for excess. I lack Bonfire for the SB, and could probably use something better to deal with other green decks. I'd need to pick up the 2nd Thrun, 2x Wolfbriar, Nylea, and Rhonas.





    Any suggestion as to which way I should lean, and any tweaks you'd advise?



    Ugh...this is tough. My heart wants the one with Nylea, God of the Hunt to work (as I REALLY want her to work in Devotion decks as the go-to mana-sink) but Primeval Titan is SOOOO powerful in a Command deck that it makes the decision terribly difficult. I think I would honestly have to play both to figure it out.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Sam Black wrote a great article on sideboarding today on StarCity Games if you have a subscription. Here is a link.

    http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36029_Sideboarding-In-Modern.html

    I can't share it all since it is paid content, but I wanted to post something I totally agree with. He said the following- "Your sideboard shouldn't just be a collection of bullets; it should be a compilation of hidden gameplans to level your opponents." This is something I really have a hard time explaining to newer players. This is also why cards like Deflecting Palm are so valuable. They switch the dynamic of the game by utilizing our strategy and utilizing the opponents strategy for our benefit. This is also the reason I cut Stoney Silence from my board and added Search for Azcanta. My tron and affinity matchups were already good, but I needed something to change the dynamic of the grindy matchups. This is a topic we will discuss more in depth.

    On another note, This weeks matchup discussion is Eldrazi Tron. I will post my thoughts on the matchup soon, but feel free to post what you think of the matchup and how you sideboard. Thanks guys/gals!
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Tempo /Delver/Prowess ("The Jeskai Way" )
    Very interesting idea WickedApp. I had never thought of that. You are probably right that it may be a bit too cut, but in a deck that has Geist of Saint Traft, Young Pyromancer, and/or Monastery Mentor it actually may be worth it. Also, I recommend building the deck. There is no deck that is more fun to play than jeskai delver/prowess/tempo.

    EncaliburMTG- My brother plays devotion to green (as you can see in our signature and we share an account on here). Big mana decks are really tough matchups, especially for the more midrange version of jeskai tempo. Stormbreath Dragon lives in the same town as Thrun, the Last Troll, and now Carnage Tyrant. They are just an absolute beating against us. There is not a ton that can be done beyond Deflecting Palm and Blessed Alliance for those type of creatures. Vapor Snag is great against the pro white creatures like Stormbreath Dragon and pro red creatures like Master of Waves. I have had a lot of success lately against the GRx Titan/Ponza decks with Shadow of Doubt stifling their mana ramp all while attacking with swiftspear, delver, or giest.

    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Quote from Rendroc »
    That's why Caller of Beasts is good, his plus 1 is a Lead the Stampede.


    You're preaching to the choir! I was the first person to post a Garruk COB list given his awesomeness Smile (I'm sure many people had the same idea at the same time with the Legend Rule change...I don't pretend to be novel or to have any particular ownership over COB...I only say I posted first to let you know I totally agree with you without any preempting). I think you and I, however, like it a little more than most Smile

    3-CMC is a lot different than 6-CMC...but Garruk COB can do it over and over AND can put a huge Green Creature into play. Such an awesome card. I even play it in my Chord list!
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    You are right. The Elf list is missing an Elvish Visionary. I will fix it.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    The Primer Absolutely needs an update. I had started a new Primer and we've since seen 5 more different archetypes/splashes....I was HOPING we would end up narrowing down "Devotion" to a half dozen decks or so (with of course a card or two different here or there) but it looks more like it will have to be more about particular cards and which cards play well with one another. Of course I will provide multiple deck examples...I just didn't want to overwhelm a reader interested in Devotion but also didn't want to leave anyone out.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Green Nykthos Devotion (includes Tooth & Nail)
    Blast from the WAY past...Ross Merriam wrote an article about my very first deck in Devotion (Elf Devotion). I don't mean to suggest his article has anything to do with my past lists, etc. it doesn’t. I was just saying it was fun to see him mention the power of Nykthos in an Elf build as that is how I got my start in Devotion when it was first released(I.e. when Nykthos was spoiled).

    I quit Elf Devotion because it didn’t seem any better (or terribly different outside of Wave) from the “regular” elves lists. To be honest, Merriams List is EXTREMELY similar to other Wlves lists (and less like my “Devoted Elves” lists of the past; but he does discuss Nykthos so I thought it was worth posting.

    Maybe now there is more too it (with Devoted Druid being a Combo with Ezuri too...I mentioned it last week that I was fooling around with Elves; but in all honesty I’ve spent the last two weeks really focused on my Chord list. It is gong GREAT! I will play around with Elf Devotion again; but it likely will just look a ton like my current Chord list.

    I’m currently 41-17 in matches with my Chord list (although there were small changes within this spread to the board and my 3-drop slot). I have a big write up outlining choices and match ups I’ll post tonight. I wasn’t going to post until then; but Ross Merriam’s article was exciting to read and I thought I should let everyone know about it.

    http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36015_My-Three-Options-For-SCG-Cincinnati.html

    Lead the stampeded is such a cool card...if I played a list with less Walkers and Enchantments(or 30+ creatures) I would consider it.

    ______

    Quote from Rendroc »
    I run have only 2 Pacts in my Garruk Green deck, but Oath hits everything else. Oath is fantastic. Adds mana with Nykthos, finds a key land, or or spell, reveals a new top card for Courser, and it's effect is strictly better than Sleight of Hand in the deck.


    This is true. It is great in decks with high Walker/Creature/Land counts. As I said, it was a HUGE boon to the walker decks I had played prior to Oath's printing (made them viable). I tried to play Garruk Green BEFORE the rule because I loved Oath so much Smile

    Having said that, I don't think it is for every Devotion deck. More importantly, or at least more common is the fact that some Devotion decks just shouldn't play more than 2 copies of Oath. I would have said that was blasphemy 6 months ago...but I do think that some decks just don't get the same "bang for the buck" that other Devotion decks do.

    In my years with devotion, I've found that Devotion decks are VERY fickle. What works in one is not guaranteed to work in another.

    Put the rest in a Spoiler because it gets deep into "philosophy" of Devotion deck:

    The main components I've found that effect the "nature" and/or success of a devotion deck are:

    1. The amount of card draw/digging is available in the deck. (i.e. Card Draw)
    2. The curve of the deck (especially in the 2-4 drop portion of the deck) (i.e. Curve)
    3. The Chosen Win-conditions (i.e. Win-Con Choice)

    All devotion decks in one way or another are "big mana" decks. The decks are generally broken into "Ramp", "Support", and "Win-Conditions". Ramp cards (generally 1-2 drops) are what we play first, "Support" cards (generally 2-4) often play dual roles; but really "bridge" the deck between the early ramp and big-mana win-cons. The support cards tend to smooth out the deck; because every game isn't going to be as easy as playing a few ramp cards and then immediately casting 8-drops. The Win-Conditions are the cards that end the game and often tend to be our big mana cards. The amount and style of each of the above cards, however, is dependent on the above three elements (card draw, curve, and win-con choice).

    1. The more cards you draw and the faster/further you dig through your deck; the greater the likelihood you will have a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in play. Of course, certain cards will not "hit" a Nykthos, but in general the faster you "draw" through the deck, the greater the chance to hit a specific card. This changes the "average" math you factor in to turns 3-6.

    2. As far as the curve is concerned...I tend to play decks with a lot of 1-2 drops and far less 3-drops (with a few more variable cards). This isn't necessarily "better" (in some match ups it is, in others it is not); but it does change a few important factors. The most important of these is that the deck can generally (on average) play well on only 1 Land between turns 1-3 and less lands in general. Of course it is ideal to hit 1 and exactly 1 land drop each turn; but the deck can function on very few lands. Decks with a heavy focus on 3-5 drops will often really need to hit their first two land drops on turns one and two (and three to some extent). I think Oath of Nissa performs very will in such decks as it can really help ensure land drops are hit.

    3. The choice of win-con greatly effects the way the ramp and support cards are chosen. Tooth and Nail Decks often will want to hit 7-9 mana quickly. Other devotion decks may not need to hit quite that high a number, hit the Devoted Druid combo, etc. Also, some utilize means of reduction to more quickly get to their "high drops" and/or utilize more mana-sinks. This changes whether you choose Courser of Overgrowth at 3-CMC.

    I generally start with the win-conditions and build the deck from there...but the above gets into stuff we could write literal pages and pages about (and is what the Primer needs to partially do)...but the above is just a long-winded way of saying that Oath doesn't necessarily fit in every single devotion deck. Smile


    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
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