I don't want to disregard your other points (honestly I mostly agreed with them) I just want to really focus on this match up discussion. Because BBoV IS actually dead to a lot of this deck. It's not just LBZ. It's the 6 Thragtusks.
4 Restoration Angels, 4 Unburial Rites(which also have flashback), and 3 Angel of Serenitys plus 4 actual copies of Thragtusk. BBoV or not, you will see Thragtusk re-enter the battlefield no less than 6 times, of this I can promise you without a shadow of a doubt. Our BBoV will not enter that many times. It may be twice, maybe 3 times if we run Unburial Rites as well. And that's if it doesn't just get exiled out of our hand. BBoV has nothing to deal with that many Tusks not to mention the numerous Green Beast tokens that can get bigger with Gavony. Also they nonchalantly just gained 30 life.
This isn't something that is far-fetched either. This is exactly what Reanimator does. If that's not on your radar then guess there's really nothing to be gained here.
Mate, idk what to say rather than just play a ton of junk reanimator games with 4 copies of BBoV. It truly is NOT a hard matchup for us. Considering angel of serenity, shadowborn demon, and restoration angel CANNOT touch him no matter what. Beyond that, they have absolutely NO way of removing blood baron from the field unless they block with a thragtusk. Beyond that even more, most times junk reanimator will see may be 3-4 casts of unburial rites. Coupled with the fact that some dega lists we are running are ALSO running LBZ and can take out thragtusk from their hands before they have a chance to even play it. Most strategies against Junk Reanimator also kill the mana dorks so they cannot ramp straight up into thragtusk like the reanimator decks so love to do. Finally, with an unblockable 3/1 and a untargetable 4/4 with lifelink. We have a pretty solid beatdown against junk reanimator. The only time i am really scared of Junk Reanimator is when they pull like a thragtusk and 2 unburial rites off of a mulch and then they have a 3rd one in hand. Then it just gets out of hand. Enough that most decks cannot deal with that sort of value each and every turn.
Just to be clear. Blood baron is becoming more and more a stabilizer than a finisher. Albeit he does an excellent job of being a finisher in many decks that run white or black. Thundermaw hellkites are becoming this decks main finisher of choice up until rotation when we break out the aurelia's again.
I am looking at foils because I have my 2 sets of non foils and I have flash cash. It is more so a question of if I want foil Barons again or $80 for something like a night at the bar.
Well we already have advent of the wurm and kylonian hydra
Both wurm and hydra can be 1-for-1d. The reason thragtusk is mostly a problem for us is couse he almost always forces a 2-for1 from us just to get blood baron through. He is always present as a threat and just generally a difficult creature to deal with. Wurm is about the only creature that's a threat to us. And that just requires you to look at the conditions leading up to combat. They will probably be playing aggro if they play wurm and if they draw-go or leave up 4 mana, then its safe to say they have a wurm and you should play around it. Kalonian hydra im actually happy attacking into because that will probably be their win condition. So they will *probably* not block blood baron and if they do im happy with that trade.
Blood baron is played a LOT in block. And so it might go up as a result. It really just depends on whether green gets a huge creature like thragtusk in theros to be put in blood barons way.
So, with standard season coming to a close and me going off to college in 2 weeks. I am not able to play magic as much as i have been. Pretty much, my version of the deck will not be seeing competitive play till theros comes out (i take only fun versions to fnm couse my fnm isnt super competitive). Been an awesome run with ya'll and i will continue to post in here if ever i feel the need to say somethin or suggest somethin.
Lifebane zombie is good in nearly all matchups. Thats why he's not getting cut. In any dec that runs green or white he 2-for-1s them. Often taking out a big ticket finishwr or just the run of the mill thragtusk. If he is not hit by removal he is eitherr blocking or attacking. He is a 3 power body that most popular creatures in todays standard cannot block. Not only that, he gives information agains control and can even catch a restoration angel. If he catches a counterapell im happy couse they arent using it on baron or thundermaw. Olivia just offers the chance to close out a game and oftentimes just 1-for-1s herself. Thats why lifebane is staying in.
Now im split between wanting to use olivia for jund or reckoner for G/R. Im keeping my sin collectors and lifebane zombies in because of their amazing utility over all matchups.
Meta is changing again. Seems like a surge in a new R/G deck that uses some big ticket creatures like thundermaw/hellrider. They play only big creatures and 4 copies of strangleroot geist for resilience. Might start breaking out the reckoners again. They seem to be punching Jund out of the standings.
High profile players do not scour MTGSalvation for obscure decks.
When going to an open event, why play something new when you can play something proven and stable?
Picking up a new deck is not always the easiest thing or even the most time friendly when you are prepping for an open higher level event.
This deck is incredibly unforgiving. Picking it up and playing it leads to a lot of hard choices to make and making the wrong one pretty much just costs you the game. If there is any flaw in the deck it is this.
I have not been doing much in the way of opens this year, but if I was, I most certainly would not really have had the time to ever play this deck and I would more than likely be playing something like Jund, UWR, GR or Naya Midrange the entire season and I would have never really bat an eye at this deck. Life works in funny ways sometimes.
I definately agree with you. As far as opens go for this deck. It's incredibly unforgiving. Though this deck has contributed to a rise in skill level of my magic-playing in general for me.
Something i noticed though was that this deck isnt so unforgiving to play as it is to sideboard and prepare for certain match ups. I found that once i got used to playing with faithless looting and i had a general game plan for each matchup, the deck would almost play itself on game 1. But games 2 and 3 are where this deck comes alive and is where it can easily fall apart. Sideboarding in or out the wrong card causes huge setbacks within the game. Often leading to a loss. However, with practice, as kamahl said, sideboarding becomes easy. But those sideboarding tricks dont come in until after hours and hours of extensive testing.
An example of this is playing against jund for the first time with my new sideboard
2 duress
2 liliana of the veil
2 ratchet bomb
3 slaughter games
3 RiP
2 barter in blood
1 pithing needle
I had 3 sin collectors and 4 lifebane zombies. I knew i wanted duress and slaughter games but i didnt know what to take out as i had amazing stuff for everything. It turns out i kept in all lifebane zombies and sin collectors and boarded out removal and other stuff i could have used in the matchup. It did not occur to me that i could just replace sin collectors with duress if ever i needed to discard cards from a players hand that wasnt instant or sorcery (such as garruk). So i knew from then on, sin collector can be easily replaced with duress if it was ever needed.
so after some more extensive testing I feel like dega just doesn't have the tools consistently play vs the top decks. the games lose are always the same reason. , not draw the cards the right way. looting can only do so much. the deck is powerful and when it works I feel like I can beat any deck but its such a fine line and its mostly related to how well you can draw your cards.
mindspraker continues to perform well but there are just too many wholes in deck.
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I disagree, in my testing i have been trying a suite of 3 sin collectors and 4 lifebane zombies. I feel like i am winning more matches now because of them.
My aggro matchup is considerably better. With my ability to 2 for 1 them on turn 3 almost all the time. Be it either sin collector taking out a removal spell and chump blocking or lifebane zombie taking out reckoner or ghor-clan rampager and chump blocking. Coupled with my plethora of removal i feel almost unstoppable against aggro. The only reason ill ever lose against aggro is if they play the mana ramp game just to play multiple hellkites and hellriders in a couple of turns. Then it's just a crapshoot. A deck like that loses against control anyday anyways.
My midrange deck is also considerably more streamlined. Against almost any deck that runs green and/or white lifebane zombie destroys. Sin collector is also an all-star in those games with baron oftentimes closing out the games for me. Or thundermaw hellkite haha! My Jund matchup is also a lot easier than it has ever been with the addition of lifebane zombie. I am able to consistantly 2-for-1 them with zombie leading to much better outcomes within the matchup. It's still a crapshoot sometimes just couse they can draw better than us. But blood baron has proven his worth in that matchup. Now, the only cards im really mainly worried of are huntmaster and garruk. Huntmaster couse reckoner is now gone and garruk just couse it draws them cards.
My control matchup believe it or not has gotten better with the addition of lifebane zombie. With 3 sin collectors i am able to consistantly bait out early counterspells. And if not, a look at their hand which provides vital information for how i should play out the match and a choice of a card i get to remove. Oftentimes their card draw. Lifebane zombie takes out the angel in the U/W/R matchup and is also a good unblockable creature that often baits out an answer from them. Sometimes they dont even wanna azorius charm it as it will give another look into their hand. Information is key to winning these matchups. With 2 thundermaws in the mainboard as well as 2 unburial rites i am able to switch into a quick beatdown mode in the late game.
Overall, lifebane zombie AND sin collector are both cards that should be taken into thought for all of your lists. They are amazing in nearly all matchups. Truly amazing.
Vipchicken, i suggest if your running 0 faithless looting to put in bonfire of the damned in your mainboard as it will function about the same as it does for Jund. As for the searing spear call. I suggest switching 2 of it to shock and 2 of it to mizzium mortars. This allows you to have a turn 1 play still as well as a good early game removal spell and late game sweeper.
Mate, idk what to say rather than just play a ton of junk reanimator games with 4 copies of BBoV. It truly is NOT a hard matchup for us. Considering angel of serenity, shadowborn demon, and restoration angel CANNOT touch him no matter what. Beyond that, they have absolutely NO way of removing blood baron from the field unless they block with a thragtusk. Beyond that even more, most times junk reanimator will see may be 3-4 casts of unburial rites. Coupled with the fact that some dega lists we are running are ALSO running LBZ and can take out thragtusk from their hands before they have a chance to even play it. Most strategies against Junk Reanimator also kill the mana dorks so they cannot ramp straight up into thragtusk like the reanimator decks so love to do. Finally, with an unblockable 3/1 and a untargetable 4/4 with lifelink. We have a pretty solid beatdown against junk reanimator. The only time i am really scared of Junk Reanimator is when they pull like a thragtusk and 2 unburial rites off of a mulch and then they have a 3rd one in hand. Then it just gets out of hand. Enough that most decks cannot deal with that sort of value each and every turn.
to back this up, its teh same reason why most green decks are not dropping thragtusk either just because of LBZ
Or a nice date
Both wurm and hydra can be 1-for-1d. The reason thragtusk is mostly a problem for us is couse he almost always forces a 2-for1 from us just to get blood baron through. He is always present as a threat and just generally a difficult creature to deal with. Wurm is about the only creature that's a threat to us. And that just requires you to look at the conditions leading up to combat. They will probably be playing aggro if they play wurm and if they draw-go or leave up 4 mana, then its safe to say they have a wurm and you should play around it. Kalonian hydra im actually happy attacking into because that will probably be their win condition. So they will *probably* not block blood baron and if they do im happy with that trade.
I definately agree with you. As far as opens go for this deck. It's incredibly unforgiving. Though this deck has contributed to a rise in skill level of my magic-playing in general for me.
Something i noticed though was that this deck isnt so unforgiving to play as it is to sideboard and prepare for certain match ups. I found that once i got used to playing with faithless looting and i had a general game plan for each matchup, the deck would almost play itself on game 1. But games 2 and 3 are where this deck comes alive and is where it can easily fall apart. Sideboarding in or out the wrong card causes huge setbacks within the game. Often leading to a loss. However, with practice, as kamahl said, sideboarding becomes easy. But those sideboarding tricks dont come in until after hours and hours of extensive testing.
An example of this is playing against jund for the first time with my new sideboard
2 duress
2 liliana of the veil
2 ratchet bomb
3 slaughter games
3 RiP
2 barter in blood
1 pithing needle
I had 3 sin collectors and 4 lifebane zombies. I knew i wanted duress and slaughter games but i didnt know what to take out as i had amazing stuff for everything. It turns out i kept in all lifebane zombies and sin collectors and boarded out removal and other stuff i could have used in the matchup. It did not occur to me that i could just replace sin collectors with duress if ever i needed to discard cards from a players hand that wasnt instant or sorcery (such as garruk). So i knew from then on, sin collector can be easily replaced with duress if it was ever needed.
I disagree, in my testing i have been trying a suite of 3 sin collectors and 4 lifebane zombies. I feel like i am winning more matches now because of them.
My aggro matchup is considerably better. With my ability to 2 for 1 them on turn 3 almost all the time. Be it either sin collector taking out a removal spell and chump blocking or lifebane zombie taking out reckoner or ghor-clan rampager and chump blocking. Coupled with my plethora of removal i feel almost unstoppable against aggro. The only reason ill ever lose against aggro is if they play the mana ramp game just to play multiple hellkites and hellriders in a couple of turns. Then it's just a crapshoot. A deck like that loses against control anyday anyways.
My midrange deck is also considerably more streamlined. Against almost any deck that runs green and/or white lifebane zombie destroys. Sin collector is also an all-star in those games with baron oftentimes closing out the games for me. Or thundermaw hellkite haha! My Jund matchup is also a lot easier than it has ever been with the addition of lifebane zombie. I am able to consistantly 2-for-1 them with zombie leading to much better outcomes within the matchup. It's still a crapshoot sometimes just couse they can draw better than us. But blood baron has proven his worth in that matchup. Now, the only cards im really mainly worried of are huntmaster and garruk. Huntmaster couse reckoner is now gone and garruk just couse it draws them cards.
My control matchup believe it or not has gotten better with the addition of lifebane zombie. With 3 sin collectors i am able to consistantly bait out early counterspells. And if not, a look at their hand which provides vital information for how i should play out the match and a choice of a card i get to remove. Oftentimes their card draw. Lifebane zombie takes out the angel in the U/W/R matchup and is also a good unblockable creature that often baits out an answer from them. Sometimes they dont even wanna azorius charm it as it will give another look into their hand. Information is key to winning these matchups. With 2 thundermaws in the mainboard as well as 2 unburial rites i am able to switch into a quick beatdown mode in the late game.
Overall, lifebane zombie AND sin collector are both cards that should be taken into thought for all of your lists. They are amazing in nearly all matchups. Truly amazing.