Ugin, the Spirit Dragon would be a pretty awesome add. I currently only have two copies of Ugin and want to see what the deck looks like without it for the moment.
Hummmmm I will keep those three on my radar. I have issues most of the time where I don't have enough threats so these three were included as great beaters. Imperial Recruiter/Silklash Spider sound like awesome additions if the cards you mentioned end up being issues. For now, I am going to try it as is.
I feel like Lurking Predators/Warstorm Surge are both too greedy. Both have fairly large 'Kill on sight' targets and are too expensive to drop. The part I like about Lurking Predators though, is that even if it gets spot removed it might spit out a creature. I'll have to think about it though.
Introduction
Hello and welcome to the land of the Dinosaurs. I made Gishath shortly after it was released because I thought he was cool. It took a lot of discussion from a friend of mine to determine that he was good enough to make a deck around. The good news is that Dinosaur tribal works and it entirely due to our Dino Lord, Gishath, Sun's Avatar. At first I was skeptical about Gishath's stat line versus cost (compared to Akroma, Angel of Wrath who has more abilities, and only 1 less power), but so far his stat line, evergreen ability combination are amazing when you notice that he puts dinosaurs directly into play. Currently there are not a large array of dinosaurs to choose from but the ones that have been released in Ixalan are solid enough to form a tribal list. So I hope I can make you as excited to play big, beefy, prehistoric monsters as I am.
My name is Donald, I am 25 years old, I live in South Dakota as a Computer Engineer. I started playing Magic when I was 15, but was addicted to World of Warcraft and didn't really start until College in 2011. I never got into Standard due to money and didn't get into Modern due to proximity to a store. When I found a group in college playing Commander however, it clicked. My current play group is roughly 8 players, who get together once a week and play for 4+ hours.
Disclaimer
My meta allows split color cards to be played in any deck where all aspects of the card can be paid for with basic lands.
Example:
RAMP!
Seriously ramping is this deck's primary focus. Top deck manipulation is slightly less important, but is the second most valuable part of the deck. These two pieces allow for the primary game plan to work. Ramp also acts as a form of protection for your commander since he has haste. Top deck manipulation lets you push dinosaurs down and draw lands, responses, tutors, or whatever else you need.
Gishath shines right after a wrath, preferably done by an opponent. So aim to put as little to the board until a wrath occurs. If you don't see one coming, commit and just run people down. Try and spread the commander damage around so people don't get removal happy. You should be able to talk people out of removal against your commander for the following reasons.
Haste
Ramp
Scarier targets
Haste and ramp together just makes you able to replay your commander easily and run the person that removed him last time down. So there isn't large incentive to remove Dino God, because all it does is make him mad. Dino God also doesn't have a lot of chances to end games out of no where, so murdering him doesn't stop the rest of the deck from running you down either. Dino God also doesn't stop people from playing. Overall, people should only remove Gishath if your have them almost dead or they just want to slow you down. The latter of course, will just make him mad. So run them down for trying to even approach Dino God's divinity. As such, the real answer to this deck is theft, repeated wraths, Moat-esque effects. So be wary of these.
Rampaging Ferocidon -> Colossal Dreadmaw: Honestly, Ferocidon ended up hitting me way more often than anyone else. I also ended up wishing it was this Dino, every time I saw it.
Thran Dynamo -> Silklash Spider: I never thought, gosh I need to artifact ramp the entire game. I was more scared to play this and over-extend too far. Silklash should help with fliers.
Lurking Predators -> Ripjaw Raptor: Adding more Dinos should work well with the commander. Currently the deck doesn't have enough creatures so using the commander to dig deeper, with more targets sounds like a good idea.
Survival of the Fittest -> Seize the Day: Digs for Dinos and with the commander removes a player from the game. Survival of the Fittest also seems better for when you have low impact ETB creatures mixed with amazing end game cards.
Overwhelming Stampede -> Savage Beating: So I really like Overwhelming stampede, but savage beating fulfills roughly the same function while also being instant speed.
Mind's Eye -> Whispersilk Cloak: So I like Mind's Eye a lot, but with all of the Ramp, top deck manipulation, and Commander I am not sure I actually need it. Whispersilk Cloak makes my commander connect more, and protects against Mazes
Momentous Fall -> Decimate: I didn't really have a point where momentous fall would have been amazing. Decimate however, is jam packed with value almost all the time.
Omnath, Locus of Rage->Goring Ceratops: Omnath is basically the same mana cost as Gishath because you want to drop a fetchland the same turn you play him. Double strike has been amazing in the deck and hitting Dinosaurs with Gishath is also amazing. I am fairly confident this will do well as it curves with the commander but I am fearful a 3/3 body will be too small. I am going to try it and see.
Thalia's Lancers->Nylea, God of the Hunt: Lancers is just too expensive and sorcery speed. Sadly a lot of the Dinosaurs do not have trample. Nylea also can help Gishath dig deeper.
Eternal Witness->Kozilek, Butcher of Truth: I have never needed Eternal Witness to return a card to hand and need my graveyard to more often get shuffled back in. Kozilek fills three positions: Shuffle, Draw, Alt win con. I think there is enough ramp to validate this inclusion
Starstorm->Crushing Vines: I haven't any issues with tokens lately but there have been some fliers and artifacts that need responses.
Rishkar's Expertise->Crushing Canopy: It draws a lot of cards to hand which means I am more likely to draw dinosaurs. I think this change along with Koziliek will be fine. I also need more answers to fliers.
11/19/2017
Worldly Tutor -> Spidersilk Armor: Worldly has been cute, but not impact-ful enough to matter. The health buff of Spidersilk Armor and the added reach should make the deck better overall. Seize the Day -> Cathartic Reunion: Sieze the day hasn't been pulling enough of its weight. It does add a bit of reach but otherwise it stays dead in hand. Cathartic Reunion should help move through the deck however. Reap and Sow -> Faithless Looting: ISBPathfinder has a point. Adding more filtering. Savage Beating -> Tormenting Voice: Same issue as Seize the Day, more digging. Regisaur Alpha -> Wild Guess: Mass Dinosaur haste is underwhelming when you commander is cheating dinos out after combat. Dragon Broodmother -> Glare of Subdual: Dragon Broodmother is just clunky when I want to play my commander. Glare of Subdual sounds amazing with a vigilante commander. Thanks ISB. Chandra, Flamecaller -> Rishkar's Expertise: I don't need the sweep. Expertise is good. Scavenging Ooze -> Relic of Progenitus: I need a more condemning grave hate option. Sakura-Tribe Elder -> Mwonvuli Acid-Moss: Sakura is just... a 2 mana land ramp. Mwonvuli is ramp and removal.
Thundermaw Hellkite was in this deck at one point, but it was removed because all it does is clear the skies for one turn. Which can be important, but I don't think my meta uses a large amount of fliers. It might be added in later.
Lightning Shrieker is still a card I am mulling over on. The issue is it's only good if you don't want to target anything else, it's a filler dragon for when you want to use Zirilan's activation. I think all of Zirilan's activations should come with strong effects.
Hmm I have a bunch of mana doubling and damage doubling in my set up so I can just have that one big turn where I kill everyone without having to keep Zirilan alive for multiple turns. And with all that mana I can just cast the dragons.
I also really don't like the wheel effects because giving my opponents cards is way worse than me having cards in hand because my cards are uncastable dragons and thiers are removal spells for my dragons. I cut all the wheels. I just try to find lands and recast zirilan over and over.
These are related, I run more cheap, mana rocks. Which means I am emptying my hand more quickly than others, and being red any form of card advantage is welcomed even if it cycles people's hands. Wheels also act as hand disruption and currently we have players running Constant Mists, so having a response to that is desirable.
Instant speed removal is usually better than sorcery speed removal. It's just nice that Spine can be abused with some cute tactics. Otherwise, in terms of a 1 off spell. Scour from Existence seems better as the artifact recovery isn't a theme I want to centralize on, just use as recovery for some important pieces. I will keep an eye on this though.
I don't really think the defensive creatures are really that useful, I understand that you can get run over in the early game but it is 2 cards in 100 you aren't going to have it early anyway. Instead I just mull to 4 every game to find a hand with mana rocks so I can get started quickly.
I will keep an eye on these. If I find they are lacking they will be pulled.
I was going to post a question on the primer Thaumatic compass??? like it seems like a better journeyer's kite which I play but a) I might want to tutor beyond 7 and b) I really really don't want to give my opponents a Spires of Orazca to Vesuva/stage copy.
I'm not sure how I feel about it either, it was a consideration when I was making the list but I decided it was a 'greedy' card, and didn't add enough to defense/offense. It is also something I am going to keep an eye on. Also, you should be aware that the land it flips into isn't legendary. So copying is a real fear.
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Changes: Dropping defensive weenies, adding more tempo and Thundermaw Hellkite (someone made a Ramos, Dragon Engine, so I want to be able to reliably connect and steal it).
I usually play 4 player games, although I guess some 3. Not sure how that factors much into it tbh. The ability to distribute the damage on hellkite is huge. It's just a much more powerful and flexible card than spawn. I don't follow why bogardan would be worse in 4 player compared to spawn - it's just a better card. I'd take distribute 5 over even as much as 7 damage to a single target, and having 7 mountains is quite unlikely unless the game goes crazy long - which your deck isn't particularly prepared for anyway, with few dragons and no recursion.
If you check the decklist, I am now running both. As for why I prefer one over the other, more players means longer games. Which results in more land drops, which results in more mountains. It's got a nice reach for when people are just outside of range.
Surprising that you find Zirilan has a target on him. I find he gets ignored most of the time as an older, mono-colored (and mono-red specifically) commander, especially compared to all the atraxas and ur dragons. If he does get taken out of the game, I don't think hedging bets with otherwise-dead 9-mana cards is the way to go. I think you're just boned if that happens. If you're still able to beat people with a mono-red dragons deck with about a dozen threats in the whole deck, then you must be playing some pretty low-powered magic, because I'm pretty sure just about any precon deck can beat zirilan without zirilan. I don't think diluting the deck with alt-wincons is the way to go, just lean into the fragility of the deck and accept that sometimes targeted hate is going to make you lose.
There was a person before me who ran Zirilan. So Zirilan isn't a sleeper commander. There is also a general hate towards tool boxing and love for killing commanders as a general rule. So I wouldn't say that these are Magic power level inclusions. I also would rather be a deck that can play at all stages rather than getting murdered from light removal. These cards are still largely untested. I appreciate your experience, which is why I added Bogardan Hellkite.
Note: I added a card tag in the quote so people can easily refer to the card you are talking about.
I mean I wouldn't cast any dragons from hand unless I had to, and bogardan is a little overpriced, but I'd take the reliability of his 5 over spawn pretty easily, unless I was going 30+ mountains, and probably not even then. And flash is really useful too.
So if I was aiming for killing people as quickly as possible (which is a great game plan in 3 player), I would agree whole heartedly. However, I would rather try to make this deck have better long term play to deal with games with more than 3 players.
Personally I don't see why you'd want to pay 9 for utvara when you could pay 3. Sure, he's "permed", but you have other ways to perm him, and anyway if he lives until combat and you don't get boardwiped before your next turn, it's pretty hard to lose. Same goes for sarkhan's triumph - these are just worse versions of what you get built in to your commander. If Zirilan gets completely shut down (i.e. by pithing needle, or just priced off the field) the deck is fairly screwed anyway, you're not going to beat anyone competent with one dragon.
Which is why I am running redundancy with the commander. I fully expect that Zirilan is going to come with a pretty big target on his back, so I am putting the redundancy in so I don't have to resign myself to losing in the event Zirilan becomes unplayable. I will keep this in mind while play testing though.
So I think Panharmonicon has a lot of potential with Flameshadow Conjuring, I am just worried it doesn't fit the deck if I was denied my commander. With this in mind, I would like to run more ETB effects to include it currently. However, I will consider it after I play test the deck. One of the more reasonable combos with Panharmonicon, results in 842 damage that can be spread across multiple people.
Zirilan tutors for Utvara Hellkite, with Panharmonicon and Flameshadow Conjuring on the battlefield at the end step of the opponent before you.
Make two copies with Flameshadow Conjuring of Utvara Hellkite because Panharmonicon shows two ETB triggers.
Start your turn
Attack with three Utvara Hellkite, put their triggers on the stack where each of them sees three dragons attacking.
Zirilan tutors Scourge of Valkas
Deal 8 damage on Scourge of Valkas ETB trigger
Make two copies with Flameshadow Conjuring of Scourge of Valkas because Panharmonicon shows two ETB triggers.
Deal 24 damage with two new Scourge of Valkas (6 dragons, twice for each one)
Let 9 Dragon tokens enter the battlefield
18 triggers are seen by three Scourge of Valkas resulting in 54 triggers
Deal 810 damage (54 triggers x 15 dragons)
Total Damage: 842
This can be done as early as turn 5.
Turn 1: Mountain, Sol Ring, Grim Monolith
Turn 2: Land, Gilded Lotus, Zirilan of the Claw
Turn 3: Land, Panharmonicon, Flameshadow Conjuring
Your turn 4: Do Nothing
End Step of Person before you: Start the Combo
Turn 5: Win
Requires pretty specific cards to do, but you know kind of cool to think about.
Overall the list looks pretty good, the biggest weaknesses I see are in low-end creatures. aether membrane, wall of stone, and goblin settler all see very subpar.
So I agree with you in terms of Goblin Settler, but I like the defensive-ness of the other two cards (Aether Membrane, Wall of Stone). I plan on at least trying them out before I give them the cut.
I'd recommend bogardan hellkite over spawn of thraxes. It'll usually deal more damage (you only have 20 mountains - you'd need to play 1/4 of them to deal 5!) and being able to distribute it is great, plus i'd rather pay 1 more to give it flash if it were in my hand. scourge of the throne is also an auto-include in zirilan imo.
So I cut those two dragons because Dethrone mechanics are unreliable, and Bogardan Hellkite isn't a card I believe I would cast from hand given the option (though tutoring for it would be reasonable). I can see your point in regards to Spawn of Thraxes, but I think I am just going to include Bogardan Hellkite (to replace Goblin Settler) and remove some utility lands to push for more Mountain Synergy.
I am dubious of dragonstorm being reasonable to get a high storm count on, and for it to be worth it (if you get board wiped I doubt you got much value), but by all means give it a shot.
I'm not really worried about Storm, it is possible of course, but paying 9 mana to tutor a Utvara Hellkite from deck to play makes it feel like a 9 mana version of Utvara Hellkite, which is pretty awesome.
My experience with cold storage and other expensive "perm" tools is that they're not worth it. closet, coffin, and endless sands are the only ones I'd include.
I believe Cold Storage is the only other expensive "perm" I run (Sundial of the Infinite is pretty cheap to use with the only downside is it is sorcery speed). I am currently running Cold Storage, because it curves well with Zirilan of the Claw. Turn 4: Cold Storage, Turn 5: Zirilan, Turn 6: Dragon and Storage use.
For a non-recursion (many sac outlets + hoarding dragon + reito lantern) build you're pretty light on dragons, I'd probably throw in a few more, or add the sac/recursion pieces. If you do one of those things, you'll probably have more luck with illusionist's bracers/rings/elixir and put those back in. If you're running out of dragons, that's a sign you need to get a better late-game plan for the deck, not remove your burst.
I am not super fond of sac based builds, and if this build works without interacting with the graveyard it will make it more reliable against graveyard hate. However, I will be adding another dragon in and after play testing will consider adding/cutting cards as needed.
Training Grounds has a lot of synergy with your commander. Have you considered it? I would maybe consider dropping Mystic Remora, as your commander should give you plenty of draw which means remora is in so that you can get a big influx of cards in a turn, whereas this deck looks like it wants to keep a full hand often. So I imagine long term draw is better than burst for you.
Also, your commander lets you do some land abuse, by giving you draw and the option to bounce lands. Stuff like Vesuva could really shine with lands that give either a ton of mana, or utility lands that let you do minor stuff.
I would also look into more effects that let you look at the top two cards of your deck. Knowing if you can bounce lands without getting mana flooded seems pretty valuable here. Stuff like Crystal Ball or Sensei's Divining Top could be good.
Cold Storage -> Synod Sanctum: Cold Storage was actually fine, Synod Sanctum just seems like it is better the turn it comes out. Cold Storage is just better if there are two dragons I want to make permanent but it is super greedy and needs to be played ahead of time. Wall of Stone -> Thundermaw Hellkite: There was a sudden influx of flying commanders, which has made this more valuable. Aether Membrane -> Worldgorger Dragon: I know I am going to get a lot of flak for this, but Worldgorger can be good as a hail mary, counter wrath. I understand if this gets spot removed with it's ability on the stack, you are just going to lose. It's being included to get around wraths, combat tricks, etc. Ancient Tomb -> Snow-Covered Mountain Kher Keep -> Snow-Covered Mountain Temple of the False God -> Snow-Covered Mountain High Market -> Snow-Covered Mountain Miren, the Moaning Well -> Snow-Covered Mountain
I ended up wanting more red mana symbols and mountain synergy, so I am cutting some utility lands. Ancient Tomb/Temple of the False God are more aggressive cuts, but I always wanted a Mountain whenever I got these. High Market/Miren are being cut, because I run no recursion. Kher Keep was just a value add, so it is also being cut.
The above cards, all make the deck a lot more aggressive, however you can only find so many dragons before you run out of steam. Which means tricks when you spit out two dragons are a lot more condemning. This deck is more oriented for using Zirilan as a tool box when needed, otherwise. Just playing dragons is fine. If you expect to be in three player games often, I would say include these cards, however I find myself in 3-5 player games often so I design for 5 player games that transition to 3 player easily.
I think there should be some consideration towards running the deck not as a five color deck, but potentially a three mana deck. Red and Green seem like mandatory colors for dragons just due to Red having the most good dragons, and even with -1 mana cost, dragons are very expensive. From here you can look at picking up another color. I would argue black or blue would be the two strong colors you can choose from, but white has some pretty decent dragons/effects as well. I would go towards jund however, just for the draw/dragon combination.
You can also run stuff that mana fixes for you so that you can play your commander without actually needing the specific lands (for example, Chromatic Lantern). Running less colors also opens up land slots for the good green ramp effects that search for basics (Cultivate).
TBH fogs work the same way in this scenario too. Whenever an opponent has a lethal attack and I have I fog I just reveal the card and ask nicely to not attack me. Works 100% of the time.
Eventually people need to chew through the fog though. It seems weird to me that people let you get away with that. The people that get hit in your place, should want to either stop the thing that is hitting them or open you up to get hit instead. Assuming you are the attacker you should try to force them to use the fog early, over later. Later, your threats should be bigger and much more lethal plus if fog deflection works efficiently the person who holds one will feel a lot less pressure which should result in them having more resources.
In regards to deck building, how would you go about gaining experience quickly. I have a couple people in my group that are very good deck builders and while I think I am adequate, I have a hard time matching them correctly. I either make decks that players have a hard time interacting with, or decks that fall short in terms of being able to play my deck as intended.
Hummmmm I will keep those three on my radar. I have issues most of the time where I don't have enough threats so these three were included as great beaters. Imperial Recruiter/Silklash Spider sound like awesome additions if the cards you mentioned end up being issues. For now, I am going to try it as is.
I feel like Lurking Predators/Warstorm Surge are both too greedy. Both have fairly large 'Kill on sight' targets and are too expensive to drop. The part I like about Lurking Predators though, is that even if it gets spot removed it might spit out a creature. I'll have to think about it though.
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I ended up dropping Selvala, Heart of the Wilds for Lurking Predators. She just seemed odd in the list, whereas top deck manipulation with Lurking Predators can be gross.
1x Purphoros, God of the Forge
Creature (25)
1x Norin the Wary
1x Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
1x Mogg War Marshal
1x Arms Dealer
1x Burnished Hart
1x Goblin Matron
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Anger
1x Beetleback Chief
1x Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
1x Moggcatcher
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Emrakul's Hatcher
1x Flamerush Rider
1x Goblin Assassin
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Warchief Giant
1x Zealous Conscripts
1x Godo, Bandit Warlord
1x Rapacious One
1x Myr Battlesphere
1x Expedition Map
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Scrabbling Claws
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
1x Blade of Selves
1x Mind Stone
1x Sword of the Animist
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Gauntlet of Might
1x Panharmonicon
1x Seer's Sundial
1x Gauntlet of Power
1x Mind's Eye
1x Caged Sun
1x Myr Incubator
Enchantment (5)
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Blood Moon
1x Goblin Warrens
1x Sulfuric Vortex
1x Flameshadow Conjuring
Instant (5)
1x Brand
1x Abrade
1x Chaos Warp
1x Smash
1x Divergent Transformations
1x Tempt with Vengeance
1x Firecat Blitz
1x Twinflame
1x Indomitable Creativity
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Fiery Confluence
1x Mogg Infestation
1x Descent of the Dragons
Planeswalker (1)
1x Chandra, Flamecaller
Land (38)
1x High Market
1x Kher Keep
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Spinerock Knoll
1x Strip Mine
1x Temple of the False God
1x Thawing Glaciers
1x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
29x Mountain
As such the list should be updated to remove the Muse in the USA, South Dakota, Pierre as they no longer exist.
Introduction
Hello and welcome to the land of the Dinosaurs. I made Gishath shortly after it was released because I thought he was cool. It took a lot of discussion from a friend of mine to determine that he was good enough to make a deck around. The good news is that Dinosaur tribal works and it entirely due to our Dino Lord, Gishath, Sun's Avatar. At first I was skeptical about Gishath's stat line versus cost (compared to Akroma, Angel of Wrath who has more abilities, and only 1 less power), but so far his stat line, evergreen ability combination are amazing when you notice that he puts dinosaurs directly into play. Currently there are not a large array of dinosaurs to choose from but the ones that have been released in Ixalan are solid enough to form a tribal list. So I hope I can make you as excited to play big, beefy, prehistoric monsters as I am.
About the Author
My name is Donald, I am 25 years old, I live in South Dakota as a Computer Engineer. I started playing Magic when I was 15, but was addicted to World of Warcraft and didn't really start until College in 2011. I never got into Standard due to money and didn't get into Modern due to proximity to a store. When I found a group in college playing Commander however, it clicked. My current play group is roughly 8 players, who get together once a week and play for 4+ hours.
Disclaimer
My meta allows split color cards to be played in any deck where all aspects of the card can be paid for with basic lands.
Example:
Why play Gishath
Pros:
Deck List
1x Gishath, Sun's Avatar
Creature (20)
1x Wall of Blossoms
1x Wall of Omens
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Ripjaw Raptor
1x Nylea, God of the Hunt
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Raging Swordtooth
1x Silklash Spider
1x Xenagos, God of Revels
1x Bane of Progress
1x Burning Sun's Avatar
1x Carnage Tyrant
1x Colossal Dreadmaw
1x Goring Ceratops
1x Verdant Sun's Avatar
1x Ancient Brontodon
1x Wakening Sun's Avatar
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Artifact (5)
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Scroll Rack
1x Whispersilk Cloak
Enchantment (6)
1x Mirri's Guile
1x Sylvan Library
1x Spidersilk Armor
1x Glare of Subdual
1x Greater Good
1x True Conviction
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Eladamri's Call
1x Beast Within
1x Chaos Warp
1x Chord of Calling
1x Crushing Canopy
1x Crushing Vines
1x Naya Charm
1x Congregation at Dawn
Sorcery (19)
1x Faithless Looting
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Cathartic Reunion
1x Explore
1x Tormenting Voice
1x Wild Guess
1x Cultivate
1x Idyllic Tutor
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Decimate
1x Explosive Vegetation
1x Fiery Confluence
1x Harmonize
1x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
1x Ranger's Path
1x Skyshroud Claim
1x Tragic Arrogance
1x Austere Command
1x Rishkar's Expertise
Planeswalker (2)
1x Garruk, Primal Hunter
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Arid Mesa
1x Blighted Woodland
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Command Tower
1x Flooded Strand
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Krosan Verge
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Plateau
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Savannah
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Stomping Ground
1x Strip Mine
1x Taiga
1x Temple Garden
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Yavimaya Hollow
7x Forest
4x Mountain
4x Plains
Strategy
RAMP!
Seriously ramping is this deck's primary focus. Top deck manipulation is slightly less important, but is the second most valuable part of the deck. These two pieces allow for the primary game plan to work. Ramp also acts as a form of protection for your commander since he has haste. Top deck manipulation lets you push dinosaurs down and draw lands, responses, tutors, or whatever else you need.
Gishath shines right after a wrath, preferably done by an opponent. So aim to put as little to the board until a wrath occurs. If you don't see one coming, commit and just run people down. Try and spread the commander damage around so people don't get removal happy. You should be able to talk people out of removal against your commander for the following reasons.
Opening Hands:
Under construction
Piloting
Game Reports
Changelog
Rampaging Ferocidon -> Colossal Dreadmaw: Honestly, Ferocidon ended up hitting me way more often than anyone else. I also ended up wishing it was this Dino, every time I saw it.
Rings of Brighthearth -> Imperial Recruiter: More toolbox sounds awesome and I misunderstood how Rings works with the commander. Oracle of Mul Daya or Courser of Kruphix are awesome targets.
Thran Dynamo -> Silklash Spider: I never thought, gosh I need to artifact ramp the entire game. I was more scared to play this and over-extend too far. Silklash should help with fliers.
Lurking Predators -> Ripjaw Raptor: Adding more Dinos should work well with the commander. Currently the deck doesn't have enough creatures so using the commander to dig deeper, with more targets sounds like a good idea.
Survival of the Fittest -> Seize the Day: Digs for Dinos and with the commander removes a player from the game. Survival of the Fittest also seems better for when you have low impact ETB creatures mixed with amazing end game cards.
Overwhelming Stampede -> Savage Beating: So I really like Overwhelming stampede, but savage beating fulfills roughly the same function while also being instant speed.
Ulvenwald Hydra -> Ancient Brontodon: Free 9/9 beater sounds tremendous. Even more so than Ulvenwald with it's abilities
Mind's Eye -> Whispersilk Cloak: So I like Mind's Eye a lot, but with all of the Ramp, top deck manipulation, and Commander I am not sure I actually need it. Whispersilk Cloak makes my commander connect more, and protects against Mazes
Rampaging Baloths -> Thalia's Lancers: Decent creature, that tutors planeswalkers now.
Iroas, God of Victory -> Ugin, the Spirit Dragon: Awesome planeswalker that can pretty much never hit my Commander
Momentous Fall -> Decimate: I didn't really have a point where momentous fall would have been amazing. Decimate however, is jam packed with value almost all the time.
Omnath, Locus of Rage->Goring Ceratops: Omnath is basically the same mana cost as Gishath because you want to drop a fetchland the same turn you play him. Double strike has been amazing in the deck and hitting Dinosaurs with Gishath is also amazing. I am fairly confident this will do well as it curves with the commander but I am fearful a 3/3 body will be too small. I am going to try it and see.
Thalia's Lancers->Nylea, God of the Hunt: Lancers is just too expensive and sorcery speed. Sadly a lot of the Dinosaurs do not have trample. Nylea also can help Gishath dig deeper.
Eternal Witness->Kozilek, Butcher of Truth: I have never needed Eternal Witness to return a card to hand and need my graveyard to more often get shuffled back in. Kozilek fills three positions: Shuffle, Draw, Alt win con. I think there is enough ramp to validate this inclusion
Starstorm->Crushing Vines: I haven't any issues with tokens lately but there have been some fliers and artifacts that need responses.
Rishkar's Expertise->Crushing Canopy: It draws a lot of cards to hand which means I am more likely to draw dinosaurs. I think this change along with Koziliek will be fine. I also need more answers to fliers.
11/19/2017
Worldly Tutor -> Spidersilk Armor: Worldly has been cute, but not impact-ful enough to matter. The health buff of Spidersilk Armor and the added reach should make the deck better overall.
Seize the Day -> Cathartic Reunion: Sieze the day hasn't been pulling enough of its weight. It does add a bit of reach but otherwise it stays dead in hand. Cathartic Reunion should help move through the deck however.
Reap and Sow -> Faithless Looting: ISBPathfinder has a point. Adding more filtering.
Savage Beating -> Tormenting Voice: Same issue as Seize the Day, more digging.
Regisaur Alpha -> Wild Guess: Mass Dinosaur haste is underwhelming when you commander is cheating dinos out after combat.
Dragon Broodmother -> Glare of Subdual: Dragon Broodmother is just clunky when I want to play my commander. Glare of Subdual sounds amazing with a vigilante commander. Thanks ISB.
Chandra, Flamecaller -> Rishkar's Expertise: I don't need the sweep. Expertise is good.
Scavenging Ooze -> Relic of Progenitus: I need a more condemning grave hate option.
Sakura-Tribe Elder -> Mwonvuli Acid-Moss: Sakura is just... a 2 mana land ramp. Mwonvuli is ramp and removal.
Card Explanations
Under Construction
Wishlist
Ghalta, Primal Hunger - Ohh my god. This is getting added so fast. It is crazy.
Thanks!
Thundermaw Hellkite was in this deck at one point, but it was removed because all it does is clear the skies for one turn. Which can be important, but I don't think my meta uses a large amount of fliers. It might be added in later.
Lightning Shrieker is still a card I am mulling over on. The issue is it's only good if you don't want to target anything else, it's a filler dragon for when you want to use Zirilan's activation. I think all of Zirilan's activations should come with strong effects.
These are related, I run more cheap, mana rocks. Which means I am emptying my hand more quickly than others, and being red any form of card advantage is welcomed even if it cycles people's hands. Wheels also act as hand disruption and currently we have players running Constant Mists, so having a response to that is desirable.
Instant speed removal is usually better than sorcery speed removal. It's just nice that Spine can be abused with some cute tactics. Otherwise, in terms of a 1 off spell. Scour from Existence seems better as the artifact recovery isn't a theme I want to centralize on, just use as recovery for some important pieces. I will keep an eye on this though.
I will keep an eye on these. If I find they are lacking they will be pulled.
I'm not sure how I feel about it either, it was a consideration when I was making the list but I decided it was a 'greedy' card, and didn't add enough to defense/offense. It is also something I am going to keep an eye on. Also, you should be aware that the land it flips into isn't legendary. So copying is a real fear.
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Changes: Dropping defensive weenies, adding more tempo and Thundermaw Hellkite (someone made a Ramos, Dragon Engine, so I want to be able to reliably connect and steal it).
If you check the decklist, I am now running both. As for why I prefer one over the other, more players means longer games. Which results in more land drops, which results in more mountains. It's got a nice reach for when people are just outside of range.
There was a person before me who ran Zirilan. So Zirilan isn't a sleeper commander. There is also a general hate towards tool boxing and love for killing commanders as a general rule. So I wouldn't say that these are Magic power level inclusions. I also would rather be a deck that can play at all stages rather than getting murdered from light removal. These cards are still largely untested. I appreciate your experience, which is why I added Bogardan Hellkite.
Note: I added a card tag in the quote so people can easily refer to the card you are talking about.
So if I was aiming for killing people as quickly as possible (which is a great game plan in 3 player), I would agree whole heartedly. However, I would rather try to make this deck have better long term play to deal with games with more than 3 players.
Which is why I am running redundancy with the commander. I fully expect that Zirilan is going to come with a pretty big target on his back, so I am putting the redundancy in so I don't have to resign myself to losing in the event Zirilan becomes unplayable. I will keep this in mind while play testing though.
So I think Panharmonicon has a lot of potential with Flameshadow Conjuring, I am just worried it doesn't fit the deck if I was denied my commander. With this in mind, I would like to run more ETB effects to include it currently. However, I will consider it after I play test the deck. One of the more reasonable combos with Panharmonicon, results in 842 damage that can be spread across multiple people.
Cards:
Scourge of Valkas, Utvara Hellkite, Panharmonicon, Zirilan of the Claw, and Flameshadow Conjuring
Board State:
Panharmonicon, Zirilan of the Claw, and Flameshadow Conjuring
Mana Requirements:
4 Red Mana, 1 colorless.
Steps:
Total Damage:
842
This can be done as early as turn 5.
Turn 1: Mountain, Sol Ring, Grim Monolith
Turn 2: Land, Gilded Lotus, Zirilan of the Claw
Turn 3: Land, Panharmonicon, Flameshadow Conjuring
Your turn 4: Do Nothing
End Step of Person before you: Start the Combo
Turn 5: Win
Requires pretty specific cards to do, but you know kind of cool to think about.
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So I agree with you in terms of Goblin Settler, but I like the defensive-ness of the other two cards (Aether Membrane, Wall of Stone). I plan on at least trying them out before I give them the cut.
So I cut those two dragons because Dethrone mechanics are unreliable, and Bogardan Hellkite isn't a card I believe I would cast from hand given the option (though tutoring for it would be reasonable). I can see your point in regards to Spawn of Thraxes, but I think I am just going to include Bogardan Hellkite (to replace Goblin Settler) and remove some utility lands to push for more Mountain Synergy.
I'm not really worried about Storm, it is possible of course, but paying 9 mana to tutor a Utvara Hellkite from deck to play makes it feel like a 9 mana version of Utvara Hellkite, which is pretty awesome.
I believe Cold Storage is the only other expensive "perm" I run (Sundial of the Infinite is pretty cheap to use with the only downside is it is sorcery speed). I am currently running Cold Storage, because it curves well with Zirilan of the Claw. Turn 4: Cold Storage, Turn 5: Zirilan, Turn 6: Dragon and Storage use.
I am not super fond of sac based builds, and if this build works without interacting with the graveyard it will make it more reliable against graveyard hate. However, I will be adding another dragon in and after play testing will consider adding/cutting cards as needed.
I didn't see that there was a Primer for Zirilan of the Claw. I looked but evidently I missed it.
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Thanks for the awesome feedback guys! I will do some updating to reflect your comments.
Also, your commander lets you do some land abuse, by giving you draw and the option to bounce lands. Stuff like Vesuva could really shine with lands that give either a ton of mana, or utility lands that let you do minor stuff.
I would also look into more effects that let you look at the top two cards of your deck. Knowing if you can bounce lands without getting mana flooded seems pretty valuable here. Stuff like Crystal Ball or Sensei's Divining Top could be good.
1x Zirilan of the Claw
Creature (21)
1x Dragonmaster Outcast
1x Goblin Welder
1x Burnished Hart
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Changeling Berserker
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Hoarding Dragon
1x Scourge of Valkas
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
1x Hellkite Tyrant
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Balefire Dragon
1x Dragon Mage
1x Knollspine Dragon
1x Skyline Despot
1x Worldgorger Dragon
1x Spawn of Thraxes
1x Thunder Dragon
1x Bogardan Hellkite
1x Utvara Hellkite
1x Dragon Tyrant
Artifact (24)
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Expedition Map
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Synod Sanctum
1x Tel-Jilad Stylus
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
1x Grim Monolith
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mind Stone
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sundial of the Infinite
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Staff of Domination
1x Unstable Obelisk
1x Worn Powerstone
1x Gauntlet of Might
1x Tawnos's Coffin
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Conjurer's Closet
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Dragon Tempest
1x Flameshadow Conjuring
1x Sneak Attack
Instant (7)
1x Skred
1x Abrade
1x Starstorm
1x Chaos Warp
1x Sarkhan's Triumph
1x Divergent Transformations
1x Scour from Existence
Sorcery (5)
1x Shattering Spree
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Fiery Confluence
1x All is Dust
1x Dragonstorm
Planeswalker (1)
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Land (38)
1x Buried Ruin
1x Dust Bowl
1x Endless Sands
1x Flamekin Village
1x Hanweir Battlements
1x Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1x Mouth of Ronom
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Spinerock Knoll
1x Strip Mine
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Thawing Glaciers
1x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
25x Snow-Covered Mountain
Cold Storage -> Synod Sanctum: Cold Storage was actually fine, Synod Sanctum just seems like it is better the turn it comes out. Cold Storage is just better if there are two dragons I want to make permanent but it is super greedy and needs to be played ahead of time.
Wall of Stone -> Thundermaw Hellkite: There was a sudden influx of flying commanders, which has made this more valuable.
Aether Membrane -> Worldgorger Dragon: I know I am going to get a lot of flak for this, but Worldgorger can be good as a hail mary, counter wrath. I understand if this gets spot removed with it's ability on the stack, you are just going to lose. It's being included to get around wraths, combat tricks, etc.
Ancient Tomb -> Snow-Covered Mountain
Kher Keep -> Snow-Covered Mountain
Temple of the False God -> Snow-Covered Mountain
High Market -> Snow-Covered Mountain
Miren, the Moaning Well -> Snow-Covered Mountain
I ended up wanting more red mana symbols and mountain synergy, so I am cutting some utility lands. Ancient Tomb/Temple of the False God are more aggressive cuts, but I always wanted a Mountain whenever I got these. High Market/Miren are being cut, because I run no recursion. Kher Keep was just a value add, so it is also being cut.
Rings of Brighthearth
Illusionist's Bracers
Magewright's Stone
Thousand-Year Elixir
The above cards, all make the deck a lot more aggressive, however you can only find so many dragons before you run out of steam. Which means tricks when you spit out two dragons are a lot more condemning. This deck is more oriented for using Zirilan as a tool box when needed, otherwise. Just playing dragons is fine. If you expect to be in three player games often, I would say include these cards, however I find myself in 3-5 player games often so I design for 5 player games that transition to 3 player easily.
Panharmonicon
Any feedback is welcome!
You can also run stuff that mana fixes for you so that you can play your commander without actually needing the specific lands (for example, Chromatic Lantern). Running less colors also opens up land slots for the good green ramp effects that search for basics (Cultivate).
Eventually people need to chew through the fog though. It seems weird to me that people let you get away with that. The people that get hit in your place, should want to either stop the thing that is hitting them or open you up to get hit instead. Assuming you are the attacker you should try to force them to use the fog early, over later. Later, your threats should be bigger and much more lethal plus if fog deflection works efficiently the person who holds one will feel a lot less pressure which should result in them having more resources.
Can Eternal Witness recur a Tooth and Nail that was used to retrieve the Eternal Witness from the deck and play for Tooth and Nail's entwine cost.