MTG Salvation

Hey Schondetta, still playing this list, still love it, been a ton of fun ^.^

Got a card for you to try if you get a chance: Bitter Ordeal. If you're running the infinite package with Darkest Hour or if you "happen" to get a Guide/'Lark loop it's an infinite creature etb outlet. If not it's still an amazing card that lets you get anywhere from 5-30 threats out of your opponents' decks. I just started playing it when my buddy put together a deck built specifically to abuse Prophet of Kruphix and it's utterly absurd. Last cast I got 13 cards, which consisted of Prophet, Craterhoof, Deadeye, Seedborn, Zegaana and a bunch of other nasty stuff. It's been an absolute house and completely trolls your foes at the same time ^.^ Hope you get a chance to test it!

Pedrin, thanks a ton for getting that list together for sky, that was really kind of you ^.^ Really glad you like it so far!

sky, pedrin's list is a very good place to start. Here's how I'm going to work up a budget list. These are the cards that are in my list, sorted by descending order of median price range:


So, let's take a look at everything that's $7 or more. Keep in mind, these are median price ranges so quite a few of these can be had for under $5, but I'll go by this just to get a work up for you:

1 Tooth and Nail $ 7.18 - This one's pretty vital, and goes in every green deck ever, so if you don't already have it I would pick one up. This is absolutely worth spending a little money on, and you could probably find one for $5-6 that's kind of beat up.

1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All $ 7.32 - Not entirely necessary. If you can find a cheap one go for it, otherwise replace with a basic land/land of your choice.

1 Phyrexian Arena $ 8.28 - One of the staples for every black deck ever. Should be able to find one for $4-6 so I'd invest if you don't already own one.

1 Diabolic Intent $ 8.38 - This is an amazing card, so if you can find one for $5-6 I'd jump on it. Otherwise can be replaced with Diabolic Tutor or Beseech the Queen

1 Strip Mine $ 8.82 - I got these at my LGS for $3 and they mark things up pretty hard, I think you can find these online for $2-3.

1 Maelstrom Pulse $ 8.95 - Not a vital card, just really good to have. Can be replaced by Beast Within in a pinch, and that one's instant speed as well which is nice. That's a pretty even trade in all honesty.

1 Purphoros, God of the Forge $ 9.36 - Can't really go without this guy, so if you don't already have one I'd pick it up.

1 Cabal Coffers $ 9.81 - This is only good if you're willing to buy/already own the Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. I'd highly recommend getting these 2 in a deck, the amount of mana it produces is absurd, but for a budget list I'd just cut for a basic.

1 Overgrown Tomb $ 10.50 - The shocks are pretty vital for fixing in a 3 color deck, but if you can't afford then I'd cut to basics and replace a couple of the more expensive tutors with Cultivate and Kodama's Reach

1 Blood Crypt $ 10.71 - See Overgrown Tomb

1 Ancient Tomb $ 11.55 - I don't think these are $12 online, but if you can't afford the $7-9 it should be then replace with a basic.

1 Sarkhan Vol $ 12.15 - He's really, really nice but can be replaced with Hellrider if you can't find/afford.

1 Xenagos, the Reveler $ 12.19 - This guys' dropped pretty heavily, and it's literally a Gaea's Cradle on a planeswalker. I can't describe how strong he is, and I consider it a must have. If you can't find/afford replace with something like Ranger's Path

1 Stomping Ground $ 12.40 - See Overgrown Tomb

1 Toxic Deluge $ 12.59 - This is an amazing answer to a lot of annoying stuff. Can be replaced by Black Sun's Zenith if necessary.

1 Phyrexian Tower $ 13.11 - I can't recommend this card highly enough. if Prossh gets tucked it's a bad deal, so I try to keep this and the High Market available at all times. I honestly can't get around it, I consider it a must have.

1 Craterhoof Behemoth $ 14.09 - Another must have, should be able to pick one up for $8-9/

1 Sol Ring $ 14.52 - Comes in the pre-cons, I assume you have access to one. if not, can be had for $4-5

1 Xenagos, God of Revels $ 15.81 - I've been loving this guy, but he's not vital. Can be replaed by a Savage Beating or more ramp.

1 Sylvan Library $ 19.68 - Can be replaced with Crystal Ball nto as good, but the ball is an actually amazing alternative. Really solid card.

1 Cavern of Souls $ 19.91 - Not that necessary in all honesty, and I've been considering cutting it. Replace with land of your choice.

1 Grim Monolith $ 22.51 - This is an all star, but pretty expensive. I'd cut for one of the signets (Gruul Signet/Rakdos Signet/Gogari Signet)

1 Sensei's Divining Top $ 23.28 - I knkow a lot of people that just aren't willing to invest in this card because they think that the price tag just isn't worth it. I can't reinforce enough how erroneous that mentality is. This card goes in every single multiplayer EDH deck ever, without question. This is literally the first card I get for every deck, even before Sol Ring. If you're willing to put any money at all in this thing get this card first, it goes in every deck youll ever build.

1 Survival of the Fittest $ 29.39 - Yeah, this is a good card but kinda expensive. Can be replaced by Green Sun's Zenith in a pinch, or just more ramp or removal spells.

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth $ 29.90 - I'd get it, if I could afford it. I only own 1 and I'd love to have a playset, but the Cradle set me back for a bit. if you don't want to put the money in just replace with a Swamp.

1 Vampiric Tutor $ 32.06 - See Diabolic Intent

1 Demonic Tutor $ 35.14 - This one you can probably get online for $10-14 and I'd definitely pick one up. Goes in every black deck you can build and is just too efficient not to have.

1 Maze of Ith $ 40.34 - Not really necessary, easily replaced by any of the other lands that do something similar or by a basic if you prefer.

1 Bloodstained Mire $ 41.64 - Replaced by a basic, or one of the CIPT fetches (Rocky Tar Pit/Mountain Valley/Jund Panorama)

1 Damnation $ 47.12 - Not vital. Good, but not absolutely necessary. Gaze of Granite is a good replacement here.

1 Verdant Catacombs $ 53.80 - See Bloodstained Mire

1 Wooded Foothills $ 60.08 - See Bloodstained Mire

1 Gaea's Cradle $ 152.30 - Amazing card, obviously not vital and a little expensive ^.^ Replace with a land of your choice.

A note on the Lotus Cobra: If you're not running all the fetches I run I wouldn't play it, just replace with another ramp spell or a mana dork.

So, there's the breakdown, hope that helps!

Hey all!

Really sorry I haven't been on the past week, had an emergency that prevented me from getting online and getting all this done these past few days. Things are (mostly) back to normal now, so I'll have matches re-done and posted tomorrow morning.

Hope this didn't shake anyone's confidence in this thing too badly, again really really sorry I haven't been on. thanks for your patience, matches will be up tomorrow.

Quote from batdown

Quote from Feverous

I'm not running the Day in the list any longer, that was for the multiplayer variant. I'm personally not really a fan of the 1 shot effects, they're just screaming for you to get 2 for 1'd, other than the fury. The fury also is only a 1 shot if you sac all your kobolds, and if they kill it in response to the sac you just burned all your kobolds for nothing, which I'm not a fan of. If I had a slot that I really wasn't happy with I might try it, but as is I really can't think of anything that I'd cut that's a little less powerful than those. Test it, though, let me know how it works!

is it really that hard to recast prossh, though? prossh decks have copious ways to make sick amounts of mana, since casting and re-casting prossh is essential to the gameplan. Give it a try and see how it plays. They've been stars for me in my multiplayer version. sure, someone will swords prossh if they can, but he's coming right back the next turn, with even more kobolds in tow. my list does not really focus on doing things with tokens on the board (other than attempting to win the game asap), so with the staxxxy lists and whatnot I could see why you'd not want to include them. In a duel setting especially, and looking at your list, it doesnt look like too many cards benefit from tokens remaining on the board all that long (fleshbag marauder and skullclamp excepted). they make good chump blockers, though. hmm.

They've won several games for me. kobolds come practically for free, so I wouldnt be so hesitant to lose them, especially on a really good chance to end the game on the spot.

maybe try subbing in tainted and psychotic fury for mistcutter hydra and thrun? Those are great anti-blue beaters, but do they really get you there? those cards can win you the game via voltroning, but it doesnt seem like they get any support from the rest of your deck. it seems like in a 1v1 setting, if you're worried about blue, you'd be better off running a couple cards like pyroblast, mages' contest, boil, or curse of marit lage. If I'm up against a blue deck, I'd rather have one of those or one of the cheap one-shotters. if it gets countered, keep your tokens, no big deal. creature removal targeting prossh is a bigger worry, but instant removal is going to be a problem for food chain combo as well; it just seems like the ever-present threat of a well-timed removal instant shouldnt deter you from running, well...anything, really.

I think you should play those cards in a 1v1 setting, then come back and let me know how they do ^.^ There are a ton of cards that are very viable in multiplayer that literally aren't playable in a competitive 1v1 setting, and truest me when I tell you that those 1 shot effects are not. The basic idea is that if a cute 1 shot effect is going to work, then you've already got the game in the bag, therefore there's not too much of a point to playing them in the first place. The problem is that against a control match, those cards are going to either A: get countered or B: get you 2 for 1'd. Sure, there might be 1 game in 10 that it gets you there, but I know for a fact that I would much rather see an uncounterable threat like Thrun or Mistcutter than a 1 shot that just burns my own resources just to see it get countered. I don't even play Xenagos in my list, and he's a repeatable effect that's also indestructible.

Again, test it out and see how it goes. Multiplayer advice really isn't viable here in 1v1 though. I appreciate that you're participating and I hope you continue to do so, but until you have some actual data and matches in a competitive 1v1 setting to back up these ideas I think you should save them for the multiplayer side I have literally thousands of matches under my belt with this deck and my Skullbriar list, and while I'm certainly not the end-all be-all expert on the format, I do know there are certain types of cards that just don't work. very few, if any 1 shot effects that aren't repeatable and/or use your own resources without replacing those resources are viable. Bottom line :/

The reason that I'm not playing the specific hate cards is that they're uselss in any non-U mathchup, of which there are many. I also don't have a discard effect to make them even a little bit useful. Things like Thrun and the Hydra are still insane even against non-U decks. they just get that much better against U.

I'm not running the Day in the list any longer, that was for the multiplayer variant. I'm personally not really a fan of the 1 shot effects, they're just screaming for you to get 2 for 1'd, other than the fury. The fury also is only a 1 shot if you sac all your kobolds, and if they kill it in response to the sac you just burned all your kobolds for nothing, which I'm not a fan of. If I had a slot that I really wasn't happy with I might try it, but as is I really can't think of anything that I'd cut that's a little less powerful than those. Test it, though, let me know how it works!

I really don't want to extend the deadline for a single participant, there's more than 1 person in here that are waiting on the next round. I'm hoping he can make it to a place with internet access while on vacation and get the match done. I'll wait til the 5th to make a decision though, hopefully he'll get it done and I won't have to actually think about it ^.^

I think I got all the matches updated, let me know if I missed anyone. Those of you that haven't finished your matches, y'all have about 2 days to get it done.

I was scared there for a sec, I thought he was leaving!

Gals, thanks for all the work you've put in around here. Please stay around, even if you're not an admin!

The best route that I've found to beating blue is with massive amounts of card draw, coupled with dropping threats almost every turn. The hand destruction is absolutely an amazing tool in this matchup, but it won't win the game. Generally I find that just straight out-resourcing them is the best way to go though. Things like Skullmulcher, Disciple of Bolas, Skullclamp, Phyrexian Arena, Dark Tutelage, Sylvan Library, Dark Confidant are your best friends in this matchup.

Also, Mistcutter Hydra. That thing is just a house against blue.

Generally, my solution is to go ifinite and kill the prophet player, but leave the other players. That way they're gotten rid of and the game can continue at a more normal pace.

I'm with you though, it's now my #1 most hated card in EDH. Anyone playing any type of U/G is now target number 1 at all times. I"m actually putting Bitter Ordeal in my 2 black decks just to get the prophet out of other people's decks. My friend that runs it though is now also running Riftsweeper, so I need 2 copies at least.

Oh well. Kill them until they don't come back, or take it out of their deck is what I say ^.^

I love that card! It's an instant too, which is sick. Let me know how it works out ^.^

Quote from Donald

Just got back from SCG Atlanta. Traded all day and now I can mark Mishra's Workshop, Gauntlet of Might and Mox Jet off the to get list

Grats! <-- Jealous ^.^

My buddies came up with a deckbuilding challenge for me. For whatever reason all my "casual" decks end up being hyper-competitive lists that tend to just stomp the table. Therefore they spent about 2 weeks trying to figure out the one deck build that I couldn't break.

They came up with Goat Tribal. I haven't built it yet, but it looks fun ^.^

I did end up putting Polakranos in the deck for the tournie and it's been a house, really glad it's in there. Good call on that one ^.^

I will completely support cutting avenger. I just don't think the deck needs more token producers, Prossh just does that all on his own. If it guaranteed a kill with a tooth and nail/Purphoros/avenger, I'd be all in for it, but it doesn't so I don't think it's worth the slot. I would probably recommend Nature's Claim over the fracture. The fracture is nice, but Claim is 2 mana cheaper which can make a huge difference. ANother one to look at is Hull Breach or Destructive Revelry.

Quote from Galspanic

Low supply and someone seems to have made a run on them. Moxnix? Was that you?

Liliana's Caress? I wouldn't have thought that would be A) Sold out, and B) $2.

You can blame Nekruszar Wheels for that one. Everyone and their mother made that deck :/