In regards to Peer Through Depths, I've been playing with Peer Through Depths in the current iteration of Storm for more than a year, and I like it quite a bit. TheChucklingAtom is right when they say that the card plays similarly to a tutor. It's very good at finding you that one Manamorphose, Past in Flames, or Grapeshot when you need it, and it's nice post-sideboard to help you nab cards like Shatterstorm against Affinity or Echoing Truth to fight hate. I've also found myself splicing with it quite a bit, though more often than not you won't need to. I've cut 1 Thought Scour and 1 Desperate Ravings from my list to make room for 2 Depths.
However, and this may be a big "however", running Peer over Scour and Ravings definitely cuts into your consistency at activating Pyromancer Ascension early. Sure, you can often use it to grab a card that's already in your graveyard, but you're almost always better off milling yourself instead. On the flip side, I've found that Peer Through Depths makes kills off of Goblin Electromancer much, much easier, since all you really need is a ritual, Manamorphose, and a Past, and it can find you what you need very quickly. There are times where Peer Through Depths has whiffed, but they happen very, very, infrequently.
I've also tried 3 Peer Through Depths alongside 4 Thought Scour, which didn't cut into Ascension activations nearly as much, but then the Peer Through Depths would tend to gum up my hand. I never wanted to see that many of them, and I really, really missed Desperate Ravings' ability to refuel your hand in the grindy matches.
Somehow, I've never gotten around to trying a list with 4 Scour, 2 Ravings, and 1 Peer, but that just doesn't feel quite right to me. I really like being able to have access to 2 Peers, though it could be that I've just become accustomed to that amount after playing like that for more than a year. And I like having duplicates so there's always a chance you can activate your Ascensions.
Overall, I can't say that Peer Through Depths will make you win any more or any less than the standard configuration, but I enjoy everything it has to offer.
has anyone considered mixing with a scapeshift deck? I saw one of the writers say he was going to try it, it looked like it may work, but like any new deck, get the baseline numbers right(wouldn't need 4xscapeshift in a meld). I just thought this might be kind of fun, and an additional wincon.
I tried the Stormshift deck after reading this article and it was awful. Like, unplayably awful. The two combos have no synergy with one another.
so, now that there has been some play since the DRS got banned, any thoughts on our best/worst MU's? The only couple I trouble with consistently are MRB(we do half the work for them) and Twin decks, mainly bc they can win on the same turn we do, so it's more/less who gets to go first game 1. Anyone have any other decks they feel storm is just terrible both pre- and post-board? Also, anyone tried Hurkyl's Recall in SB for affinity? I play it as a one of with shatterstorm, and it works well.
The best and worst matchups are still pretty similar, even with Deathrite Shaman gone. We're even better against post-Shaman Melira Pod, and that match-up almost feels like a bye when I play it. Living End is also really favorable. As you said, Burn and Twin are coinflip matchups, but that makes me see them as even rather than bad. In fact, Storm better positioned against Tempo-Twin than All-In Twin because the Tempo versions are a little slower on average and don't run Boomerang. I've also found that UWR Control is more of an even matchup than a bad one since they have no clock and we can play around their counterspells if given enough time. The deck I like to see least is UR Delver, since they usually have a fast clock and loads of disruption. Jund is pretty rough too because of all their hand disruption, but at least Scavenging Ooze isn't nearly as bad as Deathrite Shaman was. I also hate Infect because we have few ways of stopping them pre-board, and they're really fast.
I guess it's been a little while since there's been a discussion here, but did anyone see Earlder1's list? He took 3rd place at an MTGO Premier event on 6/2/14.
I think adding Death's Shadow was really clever, but the lack of basic lands feels a little sketchy to me, even if the full set of shocks are to supercharge Shadow faster.
i haven't seen anyone talking about the pyromancer's swath version is quite sometime. looking at online lists i don't see much difference between swath and pyromancer ascension lists other than both enchantments, also the addition of goblin electromancer in place of where seething song would be. leaving me to wonder whats the flaw in playing swath version of the deck?
most of the lists i've seen are from way back in 2012, are there any current swath lists?
The biggest thing Swath had going for it was that you could cast Seething Song, then Swath and Grapeshot with the 5 mana it made. With Song gone, we have no spell that makes 5 mana with at least two of that mana being Red. So if we were to try a current Swath list, it would probably need Electromancer, 2 Rituals, Pyromancer's Swath, and Grapeshot. That's 5 cards instead of 3, which is a huge difference in terms of consistency. Or we could splash Green for Channel the Suns, in which case we would need that, Manamorphose, Swath, and Grapeshot. That's 4 cards, and a significantly less stable manabase.
Alternatively, we could just use Pyromancer Ascension to get the necessary mana, but if you have an active Ascension you can win with just about anything anyway, so why waste slots on a superfluous enchantment?
In addition, the lack of Ponder and Preordain make finding Swath a lot harder. I love Pyromancer's Swath, since my first Storm deck ever was built around it, but the current options in the Modern format don't seem to accommodate a Swath shell. Of course, there could be a viable Swath deck no one has found yet, but it just doesn't seem likely at the moment.
Can any of you guys give me a run down on the infect matchup? Like is it possible to race them more often than not or do you take the control-role, post board at least?
Infect is a pretty bad matchup for us, unfortunately. They are difficult to race since they can consistently kill Turn 3 without being disrupted. As such, we usually end up playing the Control role post-board. The plan is to kill anything they drop with Lightning Bolts or Grapeshots until you can build up enough storm to either take them out the old fashioned way or clog the board with goblins and race. Goblin Electromancer is an all-star, since Infect has very little removal. He can really take over a game, if you're safe enough to stick him. Infect is just a pretty bad matchup for us though, since they can kill faster and attack past most of our guys thanks to Trample, unblockability, or Protection.
I absolutely hate the idea of being soft against control. So, I do like the idea of Desperate Ravings instead of Faithless Looting. I do agree that both are good and useful and that Looting is faster.
I also have more experience against aggro. So, I'd rather be weaker to that because I'll be better off if those are my close matches.
Fair. The electromancers and ascensions would be useless in hand on that turn and we probably would need more rituals to pull it off. I still want to play around with it.
Any thoughts on the differences in the Finkel and Shrout lists?
I personally hate Shrout's list, but that's based on my own personal playstyle rather than the success of his deck. In my own experience I have never wanted more than 16 lands, have found Electromancer to be the best card in the deck, and have been hurt more by Faithless Looting than by Desperate Ravings. I also agree with everything izzetmage just said.
In terms of comparison, both Shrout's deck and Finkel's deck have pretty similar matchups against the field from what I've been able to tell, with good matchups against Pod, Living End, Tokens, etc. As Shrout loved to say in his articles, his version of Storm is more based on a "shootout." As such, I'd guess that his version may be slightly more favored against fast decks, and could potentially have the ability to go under Control decks if they stumble. However, his all-or-nothing approach would likely leave him dead on board against any deck that could answer his threats. His sideboard also seemed much more hedged against Zoo, Twin, and Pod, with Anger of the Gods and Torpor Orb really standing out. Shrout also runs a whopping 3 Defense Grids, which demonstrates how weak his list is to countermagic.
Finkel's list is a lot sturdier than Shrout's, so it probably has more even matchups all-around. Finkel has also claimed that his version is actually favored against decks like Faeries, though I've never come across that matchup. Due to the Finkel list's consistency and card advantage, though, I have found it surprisingly easy to fight through Control decks. Finkel's sideboard is balanced against an open meta, with bounce for hate and Blood Moons to steal random matches. Finkel also gives a lot more respect to Affinity, which Shrout would probably just try to race.
Hell yeah! I've been tinkering around with some Enchantress ideas myself, and I found that Peace of Mind has been a lot better than I would have expected. You can draw so many cards of off your Enchantresses that the card disadvantage doesn't matter much, and the lifegain really helps against Aggro. Phyrexian Unlife hasn't been too shabby either. I've also been digging Blind Obedience.
I've also seen some lists in Legacy that run Blood Moon, and since that's all the rage these days, it may be worth a look. It's probably not worth the splash though. At the very least, it needs fetches which conflict with Suppression Field, which may be worth maindecking in and of itself.
Round 1: Naya Zoo. My opponent had never played Modern before, but he was a pretty strong player who both played and topdecked well. I lost game three on a game rules violation (drew an extra card) but I'm pretty sure he had the match anyways.
Round 2: Bye
Round 3: UWR control. I stormed off in Game one, he had all the answers game two, and I stuck a turn 2 Blood Moon in game three and beat down with a squad of goblins.
Round 4: GB Obliterator. Game one was uneventful: he stuck a Bob and a Liliana forcing me to blow an early Grapeshot to slow his development, then I went off turn 5. Game two he went Tomb into filterland and made a Scavenging Ooze, then I stuck a turn 2 Blood Moon and beat him in the face with a pile of 1/1s.
Round 5: ID into eighth place
Quarterfinals: Affinity. We both mulled to six while we discussed which deck mulls better (neither). He had a decent six, making three x/1s and a Signal Pest which forced me to spend my resources early to Grapeshot his board. I recovered first and went off a couple turns later. Game 2 he thoughtseized my Shatterstorm and made a bunch of dudes, including two Ravagers to blank the Bolt in my hand. I misplayed by not bolting his Pest before attackers to save two life and he had me dead on board when I was finally able to flashback the Shatterstorm with a PiF, leaving him with two lands and an empty hand.
Semifinals: Bogles. I took Game one, and Bogles did their boggly thing in Game two. Game three I managed to get a Blood Moon down early enough to stop his development, Echoing Truth his Coronet and grind him down from 27 with (surprise!) more goblins.
Finals: Tribal Zoo. Game one he killed me the turn before I could go off. Game two I kept a ridiculously speculative seven and topdecked the blue source I needed to stick a turn two Blood Moon. I eventually killed him while he flooded out pretty badly. Game three he fetched around blood moon and managed to knock me down to one with his Goyf after I forked a Bolt off of an active Ascension to clear his Nacatl and Loam Lion, buying one more turn. The next turn I ripped a rit to go with the Past in Flames I had in hand for the win.
Congrats, dude! Are there any changes you would've liked to have had for your deck (not that there are many)?
In regards to Peer Through Depths, I've been playing with Peer Through Depths in the current iteration of Storm for more than a year, and I like it quite a bit. TheChucklingAtom is right when they say that the card plays similarly to a tutor. It's very good at finding you that one Manamorphose, Past in Flames, or Grapeshot when you need it, and it's nice post-sideboard to help you nab cards like Shatterstorm against Affinity or Echoing Truth to fight hate. I've also found myself splicing with it quite a bit, though more often than not you won't need to. I've cut 1 Thought Scour and 1 Desperate Ravings from my list to make room for 2 Depths.
However, and this may be a big "however", running Peer over Scour and Ravings definitely cuts into your consistency at activating Pyromancer Ascension early. Sure, you can often use it to grab a card that's already in your graveyard, but you're almost always better off milling yourself instead. On the flip side, I've found that Peer Through Depths makes kills off of Goblin Electromancer much, much easier, since all you really need is a ritual, Manamorphose, and a Past, and it can find you what you need very quickly. There are times where Peer Through Depths has whiffed, but they happen very, very, infrequently.
I've also tried 3 Peer Through Depths alongside 4 Thought Scour, which didn't cut into Ascension activations nearly as much, but then the Peer Through Depths would tend to gum up my hand. I never wanted to see that many of them, and I really, really missed Desperate Ravings' ability to refuel your hand in the grindy matches.
Somehow, I've never gotten around to trying a list with 4 Scour, 2 Ravings, and 1 Peer, but that just doesn't feel quite right to me. I really like being able to have access to 2 Peers, though it could be that I've just become accustomed to that amount after playing like that for more than a year. And I like having duplicates so there's always a chance you can activate your Ascensions.
Overall, I can't say that Peer Through Depths will make you win any more or any less than the standard configuration, but I enjoy everything it has to offer.
3 Treasure Cruise
2 Grapeshot
3 Past in Flames
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Manamorphose
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Thought Scour
4 Pyromancer Ascension
2 Shivan Reef
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
3 Island
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Empty the Warrens
3 Wear & Tear
2 Dispel
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Shatterstorm
1 Meddling Mage
3 Treasure Cruise
2 Grapeshot
3 Past in Flames
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Manamorphose
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Thought Scour
2 Shivan Reef
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
3 Island
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Empty the Warrens
3 Wear & Tear
2 Dispel
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Shatterstorm
1 Meddling Mage
I tried the Stormshift deck after reading this article and it was awful. Like, unplayably awful. The two combos have no synergy with one another.
The best and worst matchups are still pretty similar, even with Deathrite Shaman gone. We're even better against post-Shaman Melira Pod, and that match-up almost feels like a bye when I play it. Living End is also really favorable. As you said, Burn and Twin are coinflip matchups, but that makes me see them as even rather than bad. In fact, Storm better positioned against Tempo-Twin than All-In Twin because the Tempo versions are a little slower on average and don't run Boomerang. I've also found that UWR Control is more of an even matchup than a bad one since they have no clock and we can play around their counterspells if given enough time. The deck I like to see least is UR Delver, since they usually have a fast clock and loads of disruption. Jund is pretty rough too because of all their hand disruption, but at least Scavenging Ooze isn't nearly as bad as Deathrite Shaman was. I also hate Infect because we have few ways of stopping them pre-board, and they're really fast.
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Blood Crypt
1 City of Brass
1 Marsh Flats
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Death's Shadow
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Nivmagus Elemental
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Apostle's Blessing
3 Assault Strobe
3 Dismember
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ground Rift
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Tainted Strike
4 Thoughtseize
1 Assault Strobe
1 Dismember
2 Duress
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Postmortem Lunge
4 Pyroclasm
2 Shattering Spree
1 Slaughter Pact
I think adding Death's Shadow was really clever, but the lack of basic lands feels a little sketchy to me, even if the full set of shocks are to supercharge Shadow faster.
Ravnica Island #294, Time Spiral Island #289, Time Spiral Island #286, Ravnica Mountain #302.
I've got one of each in my Modern Storm deck.
For real. I should lock up my Krark-Clan Ironworks while I can.
Watching that Eggs match brought a little glimmer of hope back to my soul. God, I love that deck.
The biggest thing Swath had going for it was that you could cast Seething Song, then Swath and Grapeshot with the 5 mana it made. With Song gone, we have no spell that makes 5 mana with at least two of that mana being Red. So if we were to try a current Swath list, it would probably need Electromancer, 2 Rituals, Pyromancer's Swath, and Grapeshot. That's 5 cards instead of 3, which is a huge difference in terms of consistency. Or we could splash Green for Channel the Suns, in which case we would need that, Manamorphose, Swath, and Grapeshot. That's 4 cards, and a significantly less stable manabase.
Alternatively, we could just use Pyromancer Ascension to get the necessary mana, but if you have an active Ascension you can win with just about anything anyway, so why waste slots on a superfluous enchantment?
In addition, the lack of Ponder and Preordain make finding Swath a lot harder. I love Pyromancer's Swath, since my first Storm deck ever was built around it, but the current options in the Modern format don't seem to accommodate a Swath shell. Of course, there could be a viable Swath deck no one has found yet, but it just doesn't seem likely at the moment.
Infect is a pretty bad matchup for us, unfortunately. They are difficult to race since they can consistently kill Turn 3 without being disrupted. As such, we usually end up playing the Control role post-board. The plan is to kill anything they drop with Lightning Bolts or Grapeshots until you can build up enough storm to either take them out the old fashioned way or clog the board with goblins and race. Goblin Electromancer is an all-star, since Infect has very little removal. He can really take over a game, if you're safe enough to stick him. Infect is just a pretty bad matchup for us though, since they can kill faster and attack past most of our guys thanks to Trample, unblockability, or Protection.
My pleasure, dude.
I personally hate Shrout's list, but that's based on my own personal playstyle rather than the success of his deck. In my own experience I have never wanted more than 16 lands, have found Electromancer to be the best card in the deck, and have been hurt more by Faithless Looting than by Desperate Ravings. I also agree with everything izzetmage just said.
In terms of comparison, both Shrout's deck and Finkel's deck have pretty similar matchups against the field from what I've been able to tell, with good matchups against Pod, Living End, Tokens, etc. As Shrout loved to say in his articles, his version of Storm is more based on a "shootout." As such, I'd guess that his version may be slightly more favored against fast decks, and could potentially have the ability to go under Control decks if they stumble. However, his all-or-nothing approach would likely leave him dead on board against any deck that could answer his threats. His sideboard also seemed much more hedged against Zoo, Twin, and Pod, with Anger of the Gods and Torpor Orb really standing out. Shrout also runs a whopping 3 Defense Grids, which demonstrates how weak his list is to countermagic.
Finkel's list is a lot sturdier than Shrout's, so it probably has more even matchups all-around. Finkel has also claimed that his version is actually favored against decks like Faeries, though I've never come across that matchup. Due to the Finkel list's consistency and card advantage, though, I have found it surprisingly easy to fight through Control decks. Finkel's sideboard is balanced against an open meta, with bounce for hate and Blood Moons to steal random matches. Finkel also gives a lot more respect to Affinity, which Shrout would probably just try to race.
I've also seen some lists in Legacy that run Blood Moon, and since that's all the rage these days, it may be worth a look. It's probably not worth the splash though. At the very least, it needs fetches which conflict with Suppression Field, which may be worth maindecking in and of itself.
Congrats, dude! Are there any changes you would've liked to have had for your deck (not that there are many)?