I think Garruk Wildspeaker is good and in certain builds (go wide tokens style) his ult ends the game. (And he ults the turn after he drops.)
Chandra is "better" for a couple reasons. Mainly her +1 that "draws" you a card or shocks your opponent provides inevitability that garruk lacks. Chandra can also minus to remove something. Although it takes longer to ult her, you just need to cast cards to win (unless they have a leyline or something) where garruk needs a board and to attack.
The reason I've been told that we don't already run Crumble to Dust is that it improves matchups that are already really good - our Tron matchup, for example - while being a worse Stone Rain against our difficult matchups.
I would add to that, Crumble to Dust although kind of win-more, also does not prevent the Tron opponent from winning through a moon. For example they get their basic Waste and keep it, so are able to still play Thought-Knot and Reality Smash you to death. Crumble does not help with that at all.
It's all about your turn 2 play. Hands that can go to 3 mana on turn 2 AND have moon, stone rain, or tracker are generally keepable game 1 with no info.
It's risky with just 2 lands and a bird or elf since they are creatures and die easily. (Compared to 2 lands and a utopia sprawl.) but it's still alright.
You just sort of have to practice a bunch and feel out your meta. Sometimes you'll want to keep the slow hand because it's a guaranteed moon turn 3 (which many decks can't win against), but usually you really want it turn 2.
I've always been really skeptical of Reverent Hunter. It dies to any instant speed removal. (You just bolt in response to its trigger.)
Of course they have to have it. Regardless, I'm not sure how it solves any "problems" the deck has. (Probably better use for the slot then a one off generic beater.)
(This wouldn't make the deck more consistent or anything either but I'd be tempted to put a Genesis Wave in there.)
In my way back days of playing green devotion, Genesis Hydra was only really good when you could hit Garruk Wildspeaker (Total cmc of 6) and best when you could grab Primeval Titan (Total cmc of 8).
Turns where you could chain them were really great. (Gen Hydra for x=4 when you have a utopia sprawl on a land and a nykthos out, hit garruk, +1 to untap nykthos and land that taps for 2 and then make 10 mana is not an unreasonable scenario).
When you are able to make from 6 to 8 mana, you are probably winning regardless of what build you are running. Genesis hydra is a sad time when you can only make it a 2/2 or a 3/3.
I think unless you are using hydra to sort of "combo" (Hydra cascading into a haste enabler) or using it as a tool against control (hydra's trigger will resolve even if hydra gets countered), its probably a bit mediocre.
Went 1 win 3 losses and dropped at todays PPTQ. Running Adam Black's (Mostly standard 4 moon 4 stone rain 4 acid moss 4 inferno titan) list.
Game 1 kept a probably not great hand of 4 lands, utopia sprawl, stone rain, and thragtusk. Opponent was on r/w burn/aggro and went guide, swift spear, swift spear, and I drew lands of guide as well as topdecked lands a fair bit (including my one off kessig wolf run). He got me to 2 life but I kept drawing lands and land destruction (3 stone rain) and played thrag to go to 7 and then another to pretty much seal the game with thrag trampling in.
Game 2 actually sided out moons and some land destruction for actual side cards against burn. Didn't matter. Opponent kept a 1 land hand against a land destruction deck, and I ripped one of the couple stone rains I left in post board and took his land. Followed it up with Obstinate Baloth and he scooped. (Actually played around him bolting arbor elf by playing utopia sprawl first to guarantee turn 2 stone rain.)
Round 2 was against kiki combo. Game one or two I got storm breath and monstrous with kessig out and trampled through for lethal (he actually tried to path the stormbreath hoping I "forgot" it had pro white...) Other games could not get enough land to cast titan/anything.
Round 3 was against my friend on bant spirits. Ended up game one having the choice between primal command and thrag tusk. Was one short off casting titan at the time. Went with command putting a land on top (he was tapped out and one card in hand) and tutored stormbreath. This was a mistake.
His one card was collected company and he tapped down my dragon with the spirit that etb taps a creature and swung for lethal. (I should have gained 7 and tutored another thrag or something.) Game 2 could not get off 3 land.
Round 4 was against fish. Was able to win game 1 by keeping him off lands which was a surprise. Game 2 and 3 he was able to keep me off sprawl and my arbor elf tapped while I couldn't do much.
Deck list was pretty good despite results. I was told that one of the best cards to help the deck overall is Chalice of the Void. Might give those a spin next time.
I really like a lot of stuff going on in this list. Might run it this weekend myself!
Any reason why you're not running Mwonvuli Acid-Moss? The biggest difference that jumps out at me is you've shaved a couple land destruction cards (-4 Moss +2 Molten Rain) for +2 Courser of Kruphix. Seems like a solid move as courser is good against aggro and burn
and improves the quality of your draws.
I'd be tempted to shave 1 or both Beast Within, how have they been for you?
I think there are good arguments both for and against including Kessig Wolf Run main.
From my own experience playing G/X Devotion (Which runs 5 colourless lands and the same arbor elf/utopia sprawl package) the absolute worst thing is opening a one land hand and the one land cannot make G. Normally one land hands are pretty bad regardless, but at least with elf, birds and sprawl they can get there. (Sometimes).
On the flip side, going down from 5 colourless lands to one (and a basic mountain I guess too) should be an acceptable risk for the upside of the scenario of if you don't get moon (or moon is a dead card) you can turn any creature into a threat. Kessig is also an out against Ensnaring Bridge combined with a 0 power creature like Birds of Paradise.
Perhaps the compromise is to run kessig as a sideboard card against the odd match-ups where moon is dead or kessig is a good out.
Hey all! I just recently sold off some stuff I had lying around and used the $$ to get the Blood Moon's and some other stuff I was missing, and now there is a PPTQ locally for modern next weekend and I want to do my best to prepare.
Right now I have the pretty much stock list put together, but want to make the appropriate changes with the meta in mind.
I have tested the deck out a bit and I am enjoying it, but it seems to need some work.
1) A decent amount of time, I will have the nuts opening of Forest, Mana dork/sprawl, for turn 2 blood moon, and then proceed to just draw all the land destruction and keep them off lands while drawing no threats and just running out of gas.
2) A friend of mine plays Bant Spirits (Company) and that match up is kind of rough. Yes if I can turn 2 moon and land a threat it is ok, but all of my convetional sideboard cards seem just dead. That deck has a lot of tricky lines of play to counter spells or make their board indestructible, which really limits the usefulness of conventional sweepers like Bonfire of the Damned or Anger of the Gods.
Obviously I don't want to skew my sideboard/main too far just to have a better match-up against kind of a rogue deck (spirits), but if I can I'd like to make some reasonable adjustments.
The meta is a bit unknown as our local group for modern is small and up to 30+ people could be coming in for the tournament. I am not super familiar with the match-ups or current meta so any advice would be appreciated. Right now my only tactic is to assume a fair bit of aggro is going to populate the field so I'll need a plan for Affinity, Atarka Red (or whatever).
I am thinking maybe a version running Goblin Dark Dwellers might be the way to go? Just because of the extra interaction and threats? I am not sure though. :/
Eh I know what you mean about burning tree AND tooth and nail free wins. Basically just keep tryin stuff until you find a list you like. Some stuff posted here recently seems pretty cool too me. If your meta is real removal happy and they've got your number so to speak yeah it can be a rough go. Run a lot of resilient stuff or cards that replace themselves. (strangleroot geist, elvish visionary, genesis hydra, thrun, Whisperwood elemental, Thragtusk etc.)
I've never tried making a Chord of Calling version, but with all this fast mana I think Chord could potentially be better than Pact. Pact is only really viable in Prime Time lists with Craterhoof. Question is, is Chord better than Command in non-primetime and Hoof lists. I think not.
Only played one match so fa and it was vs U/W control and I won 2-1. The fact that Chord is instant speed gives it a lot of appeal. Game 3 I had a fast start so he was forced to cryptic on my turn to tap down, so I chord for whisperwood and he can't beat it. Verdict won't do it, even trying to Path Whisperwood then Verdicting won't do it. His only out at at that point was Cryptic to buy some time but he still wasn't going to win that game. Whisperoood is green devotion's version of Selfless Spirit but better.
I'm running the Nissa and Finks suite because Walking Ballista is also great with Nissa. Plus all the tokens are bodies for Chord. I definitely think this list has potential.
This list looks pretty sweet. I am down 2 Walking Ballista so I am thinking of just a courser of kruphix and a Primeval Titan to fill in for now. (Maybe there should be a craterhoof in there somewhere? Might be win more but it certainly does win the game.)
Chandra is "better" for a couple reasons. Mainly her +1 that "draws" you a card or shocks your opponent provides inevitability that garruk lacks. Chandra can also minus to remove something. Although it takes longer to ult her, you just need to cast cards to win (unless they have a leyline or something) where garruk needs a board and to attack.
(Pro tip: Don't do this.)
I would add to that, Crumble to Dust although kind of win-more, also does not prevent the Tron opponent from winning through a moon. For example they get their basic Waste and keep it, so are able to still play Thought-Knot and Reality Smash you to death. Crumble does not help with that at all.
It's risky with just 2 lands and a bird or elf since they are creatures and die easily. (Compared to 2 lands and a utopia sprawl.) but it's still alright.
You just sort of have to practice a bunch and feel out your meta. Sometimes you'll want to keep the slow hand because it's a guaranteed moon turn 3 (which many decks can't win against), but usually you really want it turn 2.
Of course they have to have it. Regardless, I'm not sure how it solves any "problems" the deck has. (Probably better use for the slot then a one off generic beater.)
(This wouldn't make the deck more consistent or anything either but I'd be tempted to put a Genesis Wave in there.)
Turns where you could chain them were really great. (Gen Hydra for x=4 when you have a utopia sprawl on a land and a nykthos out, hit garruk, +1 to untap nykthos and land that taps for 2 and then make 10 mana is not an unreasonable scenario).
When you are able to make from 6 to 8 mana, you are probably winning regardless of what build you are running. Genesis hydra is a sad time when you can only make it a 2/2 or a 3/3.
I think unless you are using hydra to sort of "combo" (Hydra cascading into a haste enabler) or using it as a tool against control (hydra's trigger will resolve even if hydra gets countered), its probably a bit mediocre.
(It is also one of my very favourite cards.)
Game 1 kept a probably not great hand of 4 lands, utopia sprawl, stone rain, and thragtusk. Opponent was on r/w burn/aggro and went guide, swift spear, swift spear, and I drew lands of guide as well as topdecked lands a fair bit (including my one off kessig wolf run). He got me to 2 life but I kept drawing lands and land destruction (3 stone rain) and played thrag to go to 7 and then another to pretty much seal the game with thrag trampling in.
Game 2 actually sided out moons and some land destruction for actual side cards against burn. Didn't matter. Opponent kept a 1 land hand against a land destruction deck, and I ripped one of the couple stone rains I left in post board and took his land. Followed it up with Obstinate Baloth and he scooped. (Actually played around him bolting arbor elf by playing utopia sprawl first to guarantee turn 2 stone rain.)
Round 2 was against kiki combo. Game one or two I got storm breath and monstrous with kessig out and trampled through for lethal (he actually tried to path the stormbreath hoping I "forgot" it had pro white...) Other games could not get enough land to cast titan/anything.
Round 3 was against my friend on bant spirits. Ended up game one having the choice between primal command and thrag tusk. Was one short off casting titan at the time. Went with command putting a land on top (he was tapped out and one card in hand) and tutored stormbreath. This was a mistake.
His one card was collected company and he tapped down my dragon with the spirit that etb taps a creature and swung for lethal. (I should have gained 7 and tutored another thrag or something.) Game 2 could not get off 3 land.
Round 4 was against fish. Was able to win game 1 by keeping him off lands which was a surprise. Game 2 and 3 he was able to keep me off sprawl and my arbor elf tapped while I couldn't do much.
Deck list was pretty good despite results. I was told that one of the best cards to help the deck overall is Chalice of the Void. Might give those a spin next time.
Formatted it up for ya.
3 Stomping ground
4 Wooded foothills
3 Windswept heath
1 Mountain
4 utopia sprawl
4 arbor elf
2 birds of paradise
4 blood moon
4 stone rain
2 Molten rain
3 Lightning bolt
3 courser of kruphix
2 Chandra, torch of defiance
1 primal command
3 goblin dark dwellers
2 Beast within
3 stormbreath dragon
2 bonfire of the damned
-----------
3 Feed the clan
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 ancient grudge
2 destructive revelry
2 anger of the gods
1 Thrun, the last troll
1 scavenging ooze
1 Arlinn Kord
I really like a lot of stuff going on in this list. Might run it this weekend myself!
Any reason why you're not running Mwonvuli Acid-Moss? The biggest difference that jumps out at me is you've shaved a couple land destruction cards (-4 Moss +2 Molten Rain) for +2 Courser of Kruphix. Seems like a solid move as courser is good against aggro and burn
and improves the quality of your draws.
I'd be tempted to shave 1 or both Beast Within, how have they been for you?
From my own experience playing G/X Devotion (Which runs 5 colourless lands and the same arbor elf/utopia sprawl package) the absolute worst thing is opening a one land hand and the one land cannot make G. Normally one land hands are pretty bad regardless, but at least with elf, birds and sprawl they can get there. (Sometimes).
On the flip side, going down from 5 colourless lands to one (and a basic mountain I guess too) should be an acceptable risk for the upside of the scenario of if you don't get moon (or moon is a dead card) you can turn any creature into a threat. Kessig is also an out against Ensnaring Bridge combined with a 0 power creature like Birds of Paradise.
Perhaps the compromise is to run kessig as a sideboard card against the odd match-ups where moon is dead or kessig is a good out.
Right now I have the pretty much stock list put together, but want to make the appropriate changes with the meta in mind.
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Acidic Slime
2 Thragtusk
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Inferno Titan
3 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Stone Rain
4 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
2 Primal Command
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Blood Moon
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
I have tested the deck out a bit and I am enjoying it, but it seems to need some work.
1) A decent amount of time, I will have the nuts opening of Forest, Mana dork/sprawl, for turn 2 blood moon, and then proceed to just draw all the land destruction and keep them off lands while drawing no threats and just running out of gas.
2) A friend of mine plays Bant Spirits (Company) and that match up is kind of rough. Yes if I can turn 2 moon and land a threat it is ok, but all of my convetional sideboard cards seem just dead. That deck has a lot of tricky lines of play to counter spells or make their board indestructible, which really limits the usefulness of conventional sweepers like Bonfire of the Damned or Anger of the Gods.
Obviously I don't want to skew my sideboard/main too far just to have a better match-up against kind of a rogue deck (spirits), but if I can I'd like to make some reasonable adjustments.
The meta is a bit unknown as our local group for modern is small and up to 30+ people could be coming in for the tournament. I am not super familiar with the match-ups or current meta so any advice would be appreciated. Right now my only tactic is to assume a fair bit of aggro is going to populate the field so I'll need a plan for Affinity, Atarka Red (or whatever).
I am thinking maybe a version running Goblin Dark Dwellers might be the way to go? Just because of the extra interaction and threats? I am not sure though. :/
Thanks for your help!
This list looks pretty sweet. I am down 2 Walking Ballista so I am thinking of just a courser of kruphix and a Primeval Titan to fill in for now. (Maybe there should be a craterhoof in there somewhere? Might be win more but it certainly does win the game.)