MTG Salvation

chalice is a 4 of in a 60 card deck , the chances of you being able to disrupt/counter it on turn 2 are higher than them having it out. The 16 land version with pyro wound up just being really good in grindy MU. The 14 land version was fine though. I'm personally on a 16 land version in UB with 4 basics 8 fetches and 4 watery graves. It seems really good. My issue with stock shadow is people you are playing against know the entire decklist at this point , and I feel like innovating is a huge part of modern that people are quick to dismiss, I like the stock list and I think it's good , 18 lands 1 sleight is what I would take to a larger event at this point in time, possibly one LOTV main. it's less the eldrazi matchups and the mana denial strategies you lose to than the burn MU with so many cantrips you wind up spinning wheels while they just hit you every turn. I never personally had an issue playing against UW/Taxes, their plans are just generically good against ours since we are essentially cheating on mana by using life and the graveyard , I feel like instead of trying to beat those guys you just try to play optimally and hope to navigate the MU into a winning scenario. Chalice on 1 is going to screw all variants of shadow , especially now that kommand is commonly a 1 of. The games are best of 3 , when you have answers in your board to chalice and 20 ways to dig for them, it becomes a way less scary card. By force is very good and playing multiples in the sideboard is decent. I'm personally more worried about Rest In Peace decks because grixis always has a hard time dealing with enchantments. Perilous voyage seems very good though

100+ games , you only need one mana in your opening hand to function (14 land version with wraiths) I have 4x sleight 4x opt 4x wraith 4x serum 4x thought scour 8 fetches 6 non fetch. I've done zero testing with a wraithless version outside of a random decklist I threw together and played a few matches with, the idea is to take your first few turns finding the lands you need and playing out your disruption , then finding specific cards to tilt the MU in your favor. The hands with multiple lands feel broken , and imo your midgame is much stronger due to the amount of cantrips. This is the wraith version , wraithless I feel like would be similar in theory , just not aggressively killing yourself early on.

I've also been playing the ari lax 4x sleight version for awhile now , I think it's just the better deck when compared to the stock 18-19 land versions.

So how do you guys feel about a street wraithless shadow? I've been thinking about playing a 16 land variant with young pyromancer and more cantrips over some number of fetches and street wraiths. I feel like street wraith has gotten worse now that most decks are equipped to handle our fast deaths shadow. Most of the time it feels bad when you don't actively have some number of shadow and I instantly board them out first in most matchups , I've been on grixis deaths shadow for about 8 months now. With the release of opt I've been testing it in a 14 land shell (currently with wraith) and adding two pyromancer cutting 1 snap , with 20 cantrips including street wraith and the deck just churns and finds whatever you need. I feel like street wraith is just a mediocre card at this point and I'm wondering if anyone else has cut them in favor of other cards. Opinions ?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-01-17-WjM-esper-control/

comments/thoughts?

torrential seems insane.

Quote from TheAnnihilator0798 »

Quote from TooFourWon »

thoughts / comments on this list?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-01-17-WjM-esper-control/

Get those Ancestral Visions and Mana Leaks outta here! /s

But for real, Leak and AV are not best suited for Esper Draw-Go, for numerous reasons discussed at length throughout the thread. Here's the main points: Leak is super dead late game and only marginally worse than Knot early game, and AV is a worse version of a draw spell for this deck since we need the cards immediately and already snowball into card advantage so well with Think Twice, ECharm, and Cryptic with late game Sphinx's Rev for maximum gas. AV is a dud for us because it doesn't come off suspend in time and is a terribad topdeck. Finally, the 4th Snappy is unecessary even with 4 Pushes and Paths. At least you can still hit Snare too, so maybe with your list it'd be fine, but I would at least test it and see if 3 doesn't feel better. That could be the spot for your 26th land. ;D

Thus, I would suggest -4x Leak --> +3x Logic Knot +1x Negate and -3x AV --> +3x Think Twice (at least)

If you prefer to play those cards, however, a more midrangey approach akin to what Cody posted above may suit you best. However, such a midrange deck is discussed in other forums, not in this Draw-Go forum. Not trying to kick you out, but trying to point you in the right direction. =D

Edit: I will say that the Nihil Spellbombs in the board don't seem very necessary with 3 Surges already. Not sure how I feel abou Fulminator Mages either, I feel like playing a Ghost Quarter somewhere would be better (we can't capitalize on their short-term mana loss).

my main reasoning for av is it's another turn 1 play, while i agree that think twice is good I just feel like with fatal push I'm able to go turn 1 AV into multiple turn 2 plays like mana leak. While i understand path with leak is a nonbo , i feel like leak is just strictly better against the faster decks through early and mid game. During testing mana leak just performs better when you have access to options (push, blessed alliance) than just the 4 path. Mana leak is relatively dead late game against decks trying to go late game, but i think countering turns 2 - 5 plays are pretty decent, especially since that is where the deck actually struggles. The fulms were mostly a nod to tron and could easily be something else, but fulm , surgical are mostly for tron or valakut. While i haven't played a ton of esper , i have played leak+path before, i feel like this is still a draw-go deck you just have cards like AV to play and keep up, i don't think dismissing it as an option is where i want to be really. Being able to exhaust resources early to stay in the game and have an AV come off of suspend feelsgoodman. The 1x rev is a flex spot and could be something else, but I have no idea what that would even turn into. While i like logic knot as a card, the double blue early on can sometimes be an issue against certain decks when I need 3 colors on turn 3. snap mana leak is pretty good while also throwing a threat down, i feel like path is mostly to get rid of a "must answer". Where fatal push gives you that early game removal against small creature decks and jund.

thoughts / comments on this list?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-01-17-WjM-esper-control/

Quote from smoresnbacon »

@TooFourWon Relic can sit there for multiple turns, but that will be WAY too slow vs Dredge, especially since they choose which card to exile. By the time they've dredged Golgari Grave-Troll or Stinkweed Imp, the first ability on Relic has basically become useless. At some point, you're going to have to nuke their yard, but you're going to hurt yourself way too much in the process imho.

I understand what you're saying but I feel like the multiple uses relic has against other matchups is just better than spell bomb , if I'm against dredge and they are dredging it hurts them more than it hurts me since I can repeatedly dump things in the yard with all of my low CMC spells , if I was worried about playing against strictly dredge i would run leyline instead , but those matchups aren't as bad as you would think , goyf stone walls a lot of their threats and flayer gets large quick. They lose a ton of life from their lands and since my curve is so low I can capitalize on this with aggressive two drops , I think the sideboard can be tuned more for graveyard strategies , but it just doesn't feel right. I think having versatile answers is more important than having silver bullets in BGx decks. Being able to race with grim flayer , tasigur , and Tarmogoyf while disrupting is very powerful.

I feel like instant speed works better even though it's less versatile , I'm playing relic mostly because it can sit there just eating the grave over and over again without exiling both graves. Gftt is just the best two drop hard removal i can play in these colors , I feel like affinity isn't super hard to beat if I focus on killing the right threats.

So this is the deck I've been testing, I've noticed that sultai is very good against the other fair decks of the format and with discard and quick clocks not awful against combo, I feel like we're in a place where you can make a deck in BUG that has game against everything main deck excluding the obvious bad matchups like big mana.deck. I really like ancestral vision in these lists , I feel like since our answers aren't as great as jund or abzan , a turn 1 ancestral lets us trade off resources in the early game to refill for the mid. Snapcaster is also a great way to buy back spells on the fly , like abrupt decay. Since we don't have access to bolt I am using a 2 of disfigure main and a 3rd in the side. I really hate this kill spell , but it kills guide on turn one and steel overseer without burning a decay. I've play tested about 100 games so far and attended an IQ going 3-3 , my losses being to bushwhacker zoo, which was extremely close and in game 3 I kept a loose mulligan to 6, Emeria Control ( my answers were just not good enough) , and bogles. My wins being Bogles , Grixis control , And Brad nelsons jund list from worlds. The only matchup where I felt unable to do anything was against bogles , luckily I saw my far // away both games against my second bogles opponent. New lili is extremely powerful in this deck , running 13 creatures you will need to buy them back, Snapcaster is also pretty nuts off of a lili -2. I decided against running veil because I'd rather not be forced to +1 when I'd rather sit on a few cards in hand , although I believe she could see some play from the board. Creeping tar pit is extremely good , cheap to activate and deals with Liliana of the veil quickly. I felt like counter spells were awkward in a deck that had so many aggressive threats and I found myself holding them in a lot of matchups. I picked discard to always have something to do on turn one, being it a discard spell or a visions. I think 23 lands is almost perfect , the mana base sometimes feels shakey with all of the green black spells. My sideboard is pretty much just a pile of good cards that I thought had applications against a lot of different decks. Like random life gain , more discard , better creatures for specific matchups , engineered explosives for zoo , relic for Snapcaster decks , dredge , and any other graveyard type. I'd appreciate some comments on this list if anyone can give me a good suggestion , thanks.

Thanks

opinions? havoc festival+curse of bloodletting seemed really funny to me, kraken hatching of course to be the 0/4 1 drop, hover barriers 0/6 3 drops, invisible stalkers for the hands of binding izzet charms/jace to draw cyclonic rift to bounce mizzium mortar for a quick burn, sleep or Aetherize for a little board control until the curse of blood letting gets a 5th turn drop, 6th turn havoc festival. izzet charm can also be used to counter a little removal towards the havoc festival or curse of bloodletting

So I was going through some gatecrash cards today and saw a ton of really awesome battalion cards, was just curious if anyone was running sublime archangel in them and what your boros decks looked/played like.

see i like the idea of both decks , i just see the vampire nighthawk adding what is truly needed. Snapcaster - i've had some thoughts about it and i decided it isn't really worth putting in. A lot of my spells are more of a one time thing to blow my phantasms and consuming aberration / wights up. Nightveil specter i looked at kinda like im looking at vampire nighthawk, its a 2/3 for 3 with flying. The nightveil i do like as a card and i will probably keep 2 of them just because the effect seems too good to pass up. Do either of you play competitively and play these types of decks? I'm more concerned about how it fairs against aggro/burn. Thanks for the advice!

so do you think i should get rid of the Crypt Ghast entirely? Add any more planeswalkers?