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The Magic Market Index for Jan 12, 2018
 
Treasure Cruisin' Tempered Steel
 
The Magic Market Index for Jan 5, 2018
  • posted a message on Sidisi, Brood Tyrant: Zombie horde and shenanigans! (Competitive, Budget, and Zombie Tribal - 3 versions!)
    Quote from DementedKirby »
    The Obzedat player was locked out of using his commander when the Damia player cast Trickbind in response to Obzedat returning from exile. So Obzedat stayed in exile. Without ever changing zones, it couldn't return to the command zone. Once that happened, I knew my threat was going to be Damia.


    Pretty sure Obzedat is like Norin where when you exile him you can instead send him to the command zone and his trigger will put him back in play as long as he doesn't change zones again.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Turn 0 kills with Leyline
    Similar to what someone else posted:

    Leyline
    Lotus Petal
    Mana Crypt
    Show and Tell
    Omniscience
    Any 'to hand' tutor.

    Use the rocks to fuel Show and Tell.
    Show and Tell into Omniscience
    Cast the tutor searching for another 'to hand' tutor.
    Use the second tutor to grab Seasons Past.
    Use Seasons Past to grab the tutors.
    Use one tutor to fetch Praetor's Grasp and the other to get Seasons Past again.
    Then each loop of Tutor -> Seasons Past lets you exile one card from an opponents library while searching for one in your own. Deck everyone out while storming off.


    But as also mentioned above, a lot easier, albeit still very unlikely, with P.Hulk.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Idea for a modular banlist
    Quote from Onering »
    I'm not sure what changes cEDH players would be looking for beyond perhaps the fast mana. My regular playgroup is more casual, and when you play online you rarely get a mix where everyone is running 100% decks, so I don't have enough experience actually playing at that level to have any suggestions, and I mostly follow ban list discussions from a casual perspective or 1v1 sub formats (which don't really translate well into multiplayer). What ideas do you have?


    Banning fast mana would probably be a bad idea for cEDH as it would push decks into green even more. Their style of play seems pretty healthy using the RCs banlist as a variety of decks and gameplans exist (except pure Agro which is bad even in casual because 90-120 life is a lot).
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from Zygous »

    I'm entertaining a though experiement in which the color identity rules are reverted, but rule 4 remains gone. Basically, you could only play cards that shared a color with your commander, so that G/W cat tribal deck can now play Mtenda Lion and your mono white equipment deck can play Bringer of the White Dawn, while at the same time the very cards that the color identity rules change sought to bring into the format can still exist as playable generals, because their decks can still add the colored mana needed to activate their generals, which is going to be a burden born by the crazy amount of good manarocks and lands we've gotten since 2010.

    I don't see this change being universally popular, since it would only strip extra color identities from cards, but it also doesn't add 1-4 extra color identities to cards that could be played a monocolor deck either. In theory, the majority of commander decks feel nothing based on this rule change and a few cards win while a few lose, but the losers are still legal cards and can function in games, the decks just need to be adjusted.




    So legendaries like Tasigur, Alesha, ect would now be mono colored? Lol.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Paradox Engine
    Quote from Carthage »

    From a competitive standpoint, paradox engine has been much much stronger than the green big stuffs cards we've seen banned in the past. Paradox engine created entire archetypes that are designed to just get paradox engine out as fast as possible and win on the spot.

    Paradox engine can and will absolutely make the entire game about paradox engine if your deck can draw cards well. You are almost certainly about to take the next 10 minutes playing out your turn when this happens. To pull this off, you need the same mana rocks you are probably running anyways, and the same card draw you are probably running anyways.

    Your definition of regular card isn't consistent. POK requires you to have creatures to cast every turn and that it isn't removed. Leovold requires you to have wheels. Primeval and Sylvan require the game to proceed at a slower pace to be valuable. All of these cards have power that can vary depending on both the deck they are in and the current board state, which is the same definition you used to shoot down paradox engine.


    Competitive standpoints don't matter to the RC, and even if it did most real cEDH decks don't run it. The fact that there are decks literally built to play with it is another good reason why it should stay, format diversity.

    It's not the same thing. Titan and Primordial made EVERYONE's game about them. Everyone would start trying to steal, clone, kill, or revive them for value. Sure, decks wouldn't change much by just adding a Dox Engine to it, but that's not a guarantee that it'd actually be good in the deck, if that was the case everyone would be running it.

    PoK doesn't require anything. Just being able to untap is good enough, the flash is what pushes it over the top. (You also always have access to your commander so theres that too). It also tended to centralize games similarly to Titan and Primordial. And those last two don't require a slower game at all, they just need the deck to have green, if it was legal again almost every green deck would rejam them in because of the tempo swing and abusability they provide at any point of the game.

    Again, if your playgroup doesn't like it just talk to the person playing it. The only box this card should be maybe be ticked for the RC on this card is "Creates Undesirable Game States (Losing is not an undesirable game state)", because of the potential durdling. But when you look at the amount of cards that are currently legal that extend the game by over half an hour in casual decks, it's utterly ridiculous to ban Dox Engine for that.

    As a side note, it's pretty amusing how some people say that running more removal isn't an answer when across their listed decks theres a grand total of only 4 instant speed removals. How do you expect cards to not beat you if you can't interact on the stack at all?
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Paradox Engine
    They're nothing alike with the exception that they untap things. For Dox Engine to win on the spot the person needs: at least 3~4 mana rocks on board, and one or more cards in play or in hand that let him continue to draw or some kind of reusable tutor like Yisan or maybe Pod or lots of cards in hand, a boardstate like that should be causing people to be casting worried glances in that direction anyways. PoK, on the other hand, only requires you to have her in play in order to start letting you take turns during everyone elses turns.

    Sure Dox Engine can cause turns to durdle a bit even if the person doesn't end up winning, but if your group does't like it then just talk to the player, thats what the "social contract" aspect of the format is supposed to be?

    Like honestly, if cards are going to start getting banned because they win with "things you're already running" then you may as well ban Createrhoof Behemoth, as he can win 'out of nowhere' with just a couple of creatures out, or either Isochron Scepter or Dramatic Reversal as they're far stronger than Dox Engine, albeit its two cards.

    Other people have already mentioned that they haven't had issued with Dox Engine. Why that is who knows, but t's not Primeval Titan or Sylvan Primordial which degenerate the entire flow of the game around them, it's not PoK which lets you essentially take 4 turns to everyone elses single turn, it's not the overly costed spells that invalidate the rest of the game, or Braids or Leovold which can easily turn the entire game into a long durdle or lock people out of playing. It's a regular card whose power can vary depending on both the deck it's in and the current boardstate.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Paradox Engine
    Quote from Pokken »
    Omniscience costs 10 mana, paradox engine costs 5 and lets you float mana for activations and x-spells. At the low low cost of playing good mana rocks. Paradox engine is about 1000% better than omniscience in EDH.


    Wrong. To do Season's Past loops I'd need around 6 mana from rocks/dorks vs just omniscence. Six mana from rocks/dorks + 5 opening mana for the Dox Engine is also more than the three I'd need for Isochron Scepter x Dramatic Reversal, which also needs 3 mana less to get into play. So not only is Dox Engine not always better than Omniscience, it's not even always better than it's more similar equivalents. (As a side note dox engine with isochron scepter is probably fun as sh*t)
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Paradox Engine
    People already play Tooth and Nail, Omniscience, DEN, Craterhoof Behemoth, Insurrection, Sepulchral Primordial, Mikaeus x sac outlet x ballista. This is just more of the same. At worst it does absolutely nothing, normally it reduces your spells by X, where X is the amount of mana you can produce from non-land sources, and at best it can carry your deck to victory. If you don't like it cut it from your deck (like how someone else said they did above), talk to the person using it, or answer it or the cards it needs to win.

    Also with that example of yours, if you actually drew a god hand like that, because thats 4 cards + the dox engine + something that you can chain to win, you honestly deserve to win, lol.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Paradox Engine
    The other banned cards that you mentioned, except Painter's, can be easily slotted into any decks in their colors and do work. Paradox engine shouldn't be banned precisely because not every deck can support it.
    And again, a player can spend around 7-8 mana uninterrupted, he should be winning anyways. If they're casting a Dox engine and it survives a whole round... That's on you, lol.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Paradox Engine
    Quote from Pokken »

    Yeah, paradox engine is not very good if your goal is to combo out on turn 3 every game like a pro.


    Paradox Engine in Arcum Dagson is very good if your goal is to combo out on turn 3 every game like a pro.

    Dox Engine is a decent card that shouldn't really be an issue unless you're playing crawwurm.dec with no removal. Any play that wins with it requires at least 7 mana in a single turn to pull off, if not more. That much mana should in fact be netting you a win or a huge swing in advantage.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Banlist
    Quote from Dunharrow »
    Quote from Taleran »
    Quote from Dunharrow »
    So what's the deal with Ad Nauseum?

    It always wins the game on the spot. No casual decks play it, unless they have Phyrexian Unlife (or similar) as part of their combo. Was with competitive players last night. If someone ramps and plays it on turn 2, they win.

    Doomsday is similar, but they need to draw into the pile.

    I just don't see a situation where it is used "fairly". It always wins the game when it is cast.

    It's not ubiquitous enough to be banned, but it seems like Yawgmoth's Bargain. Why should it be in the format?


    You are describing specific decks that cards are not banned around


    I have only ever seen it cast to draw an entire deck and win the game. I have never seen it played by non-competitive players.

    The examples above are interesting. Happy to hear people are using it in other ways.


    Bolded why it isn't banned or a problem for the RC.



    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Instantly ban-hammer worthy?
    Fingers crossed that it was just sarcasm.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [POLL] Planeswalkers as playable generals
    Quote from Carthage »


    I'll use dimir as an example:
    Phenax, God of Deception - Good general. Strong, mostly unique effect that is worth building around.
    Gisa and Geralf - Boring general. Just put zombies in your deck. Effect is weak. Would never play.
    Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Another boring general. Rules text is weak.
    Grimgrin, Corpse-Born - Good general, worth building around, much more interesting stuff you can do compared to gisa and geralf for example.
    Oona, Queen of the Fae - Boring general, mostly serves as a mana sink for infinite combos in goodstuffs or a canned weak faerie deck.
    Vela the Night-Clad - Good general. The leaves the battlefield trigger is the interesting one here.
    Dralnu, Lich Lord - Boring general. The downside on him is much too severe for anything other than degenerate use, and he's not good compared to similar combo generals.
    Wrexial, the Risen Deep - Boring goodstuffs general. Nothing to build around here.
    Sygg, River Cutthroat - Would be interesting if the payoff was more than drawing a single card.
    Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker - Boring general. Worse than phenax.
    Dragonlord Silumgar - Boring goodstuffs general. Nothing to build around here.
    The Scarab God - Good general, stuff you can build around here.
    Wydwen, the Biting Gale - Boring general with nothing to build around
    Skeleton Ship - Boring general. Weak and useless.
    Circu, Dimir Lobotomist - Boring general. Weak and useless. Worse than phenax.
    Silumgar, the Drifting Death - Boring general. Nothing to build around.
    Szadek, Lord of Secrets - Boring general. Overcosted, worse than phenax.
    Ramirez DePietro - Boring general, vanilla
    Nebuchadnezzar - Boring general, effect is too weak.
    Silas Renn, Seeker Adept - Boring general, nothing to build around.
    Ramses Overdark - Boring general, effect is too weak.
    Sivitri Scarzam - Boring general, vanilla.
    Princess Lucrezia - Boring general, effect is too weak.
    Riven Turnbull - Boring general, effect is too weak.
    Ur-Drago - Boring general, effect is too weak.


    This sounds like a very personal problem and not one that will be fixed with the maybe 20 worth while planeswalkers, assuming none of those ~20 got banned lol.

    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [POLL] Planeswalkers as playable generals
    Personally my main issue with PW as commanders is that BaaC doesn't exist anymore, so we'd just be culling cards from the pool without much benefit.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on The Official Color Identity Discussion Thread
    The current restrictions are fine because mechanically and functionally hybrid cards aren't mono colored. The only thing that's inconsistent is the "intent". Beseech the queen is quite clearly mono-black as it's 'hybrid' isn't even a color, lol. Point is intent doesn't matter, rules and mechanics do.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
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