This man speaks the truth! Speculation about Theros will have to wait, we have a ton of new toys to play with in the meantime.
Personally, I think the simple potential addition of a 100% consistent set of new mana-dorks is enough to go back to the drawing board. Those are big questions, and it all depends on what the endgame objectives of the deck are, as to how many dorks we want, and which ones. How big the deck optimally wants to go will be largely determined by the rest of the format. There's a lot of merit in some of the newer lists just running 4x Avacyn's Pilgrim and 4x Farseek I think, with just 1x Aetherling + 1x Angel of Serenity along with cutting Garruk, Primal Hunter. The objective here is obvious; to run a lower curve, less bombs, and make the deck more streamlined but faster. But that also places strict limits on your bomb count, and which ones make the cut/stricter evaluations on what pulls the most weight in a given game state.
The short answer here is that there really isn't a correct number at the moment, and the long answer is that we've got a lot of work to do to figure out what the mana framework should look like. I've got a lot more to toss in on critiquing our beloved deck, and what to possibly change in the deck in another post coming up soon!
This...I feel that a lower curve emphasizing more dorks and capitalizing on either gavony or wolf run is a good way to start, by running a lower curve you can stand better chances against hyper aggro, and can also fight other midrange decks without having to be put on your heels until you can resolve an AoS or zegana or sphinx for a ton. Plus with Aetherling a thing now, multiples of AoS can be placed in the side for the midrange mirror while a Game 1 Aetherling or AoS will often be enough to end the game. Incorporating Scavenging Ooze should also be a top priority, i don't own voices and personally I don't see the need for them with control being much less of a thing atm, i believe the ooze probably plays better against aggro and is less restrictive on the mana base, against midrange if i see one late game I know for a fact i'm probably getting a mini thragtusk for 5 or 6 mana
I'm curious as to why the versions splashing red for Kessig Wolf Run have fallen out of favor. Is it just for better mana? Kessig seems very good at ending the game quickly.
I tried Gavony and I didn't like it as much, in the board states where there's 4-5 creatures on both sides it doesn't do anything much for a couple turns and is pretty lackluster if you get sweeped, which admittedly we sort of function as a control deck that's very weak to sweepers. My list originally ran 2 basic forests to help cast Garruk, Primal hunter without hurting the mana, I've since replaced 2 Gavony with 2 Kessig over the last two weeks and threw in 2 stomping grounds over the forests and it's actually IMPROVED my mana becuase not only do I still get two green sources turn 1 to cast a pilgrim off of, but I can also fetch a grounds using farseek to set up kessig meaning I only have to draw into the wolfrun to be able to activate it as you'll usually see at least 1 farseek by turn 5. It's really an up in the air decision though I guess. I'd argue that wolfrun is better in my situation where I've decided to mainboard the 2 faithmenders, and it does a great job of turning that T15 avacyn's pilgrim into the biggest ball lightning you've ever seen.
PS: I hated having a gavony versus any red/naya deck that had a reckoner out. It literally meant I couldn't profitably attack into it unless I wanted to take 5 or 6 damage to the face.
Further to this, someone suggested trackers instinct. Ive cut the cackling and garruks mb for 4 trackers instincts and haven't looked back. It thins your deck (an issue discussed above) and helps you find threats late to mid game. Ive had opponents side in gy hate games 2/3 just to deal with this, slowing thier plays down by a turn which is nice :).
My sideboard isnt optimum (no $60 stags unfortunatly) but so far ive gone 6-2 (3-1 both times) at the local fnm with this deck beating most of the major archetypes, except aristocrats.
Really? In my testing the aristocrats has always been a favorable matchup for myself, garruk relentless will always kill a guy and rarely ever take damage because they'll either sac to the cartel or sac a guy to give him hexproof, and if its the junk version just stick a rest in peace and if they dont answer it, its literally 85-15 your favor
For those who watched andrew shrout's performance this weekend I love the idea of tutoring for your silver bullets using garruk, somethibg ive been doing for a while now, but I don't like the absence of centaur healer in an aggro filled meta, at the best he can come down and trade while blanking an entire combat phase, at worst he gains you 3 life and eats up most of a goreclan rampager pump. The 3 unflinching courage in the side is somethin I'm going to try versus bant hexproof which as he states is a very bad matchup for us, ray of revelation just isn't cutting it at all.
Hey all I've been working on Prime speaker bant for a couple weeks now and have had some great success with the deck at FNM. Here is the list I'm running atm
SB
2 acidic slime
1 progenitor mimic
2 dispel
1 supreme verdict
1 sigarda, host of herons
1 garruk primal, hunter
2 advent of the wurm
1 selesnya charm
2 ray of revelation
2 rest in peace
a couple of notes the Main deck is stacked against aggro and midrange game one, with some help against control coming out of the side. the first thing that I've learned is that progenitor mimic is 9/10 times going to turn the game decidedly in your favor, I've used it to copy angel of serenity, blood baron of vizkopa, thragtusk, reckoner, rhox faithmender and any value creature honestly. He's a powerhouse and if left unchecked will win you the game. the fact that it's restoration angel target is also a huge bonus. I came in second place last FNM with this build only losing one game before the finals to Naya midrange, and then losing to jund in the finals which was mostly due to me being a bad player and not trusting my instincts on what was admittedly a bad hand. I think this deck is very resilient and has the tools to come back from very poor starts or against an overwhelming opposing board position by landing a mimic or an AoS or Zegana. That being said it plays our more like a control deck, that is admittedly very weak against verdicts and terminus. However, the format doesn't have many UWR control builds atm so you don't often find a bad matchup.
This Primer is for the development of a competitive Prime Speaker Bant deck. I will attempt to update the Primer as much as possible, and give feedback on posts. Below I will be listing possible card choices, and decklists, including your own decklists if you so choose. Feel free to post your own decks, results, and strategies below.
Card Choices
Creatures
Loxodon Smiter: Solid uncounterable threat, and great to topdeck late game.
Centaur Healer: Great for the aggro match post side, and a sizable body that can play Defense until you stabilize.
Rhox Faithmender: Double life allows you to outrace almost any aggro deck, but I believe that with 8 sources of EtB lifegain you don't need it
Arbor Elf: The usual mana dork for some lists, I personally don't believe they are needed while the pilgrim is in standard still.
Avacyn's Pilgrim: My go-to choice for mana dorks. Ramps without having to have a ravnica shock and can pseudo mana-fix.
Thragtusk: What's more to say about Mr. Thrag, he's made waves in standard since he was first printed and will be played up until the day he rotates.
Wolfir Silverheart: This guy can make zegana nutty, but until the meta shifts from blitz aggro to a more midrange based meta I'd rather have the Thragtusk as my five-drop.
Restoration Angel: Much of the same reasons above, saves your mana dork from dying in a chump block and allows for the mini-Thrag combo that generates a large amount of card advantage.
Angel of Serenity: A great curve-topper with immediate board impact that can consistently be cast on turns 5 and 6 thanks to our ramp.
Prime Speaker Zegana: The namesake for the deck, comes down with a sizable body and generates enormous amounts of card advantage.
Master Biomancer: Great "value" creature in the midrange matchups, allowing you to severely outclass even the largest threats, and if left unanswered can make bodies big enough to favorably block even craterhoof or Garruk wurms.
Planeswalkers
Garruk, Primal Hunter: The fourth and fifth Zeganas to begin with, otherwise allows you to present an alternate win condition if you are able to ult him, also helps put the breaks on aggro game 1, and has synergy with Biomancer if you curve out right, making 5/5 beasts is nothing to joke about. Overall the only planeswalker I'd ever consider including
Garruk Relentless: Helps to repopulate the board after a wipe and lets you tutor for threats late game. Don't know how I feel about him yet, he seems a little underwhelming when compared to his big brother, but the G instead of GGG makes him very appealing.
Gideon, Champion of Justice: Can be a suitable planeswalker if your meta is full of aggro, but I think he's better reserved for post-rotation when we need a new 4-drop.
Spells
Farseek: Best color fixing ramp in the format, what else is there to say.
Azorius Charm: Let's you gain a tempo boost versus aggro, draw a card late in the game, and is the second half of our sphinx's revelations (lifelink is still a viable mode of this card).
Selesnya Charm: Gives us a mainboard answer to cards like obzedat, and olivia; the trample boost also let's us roll over token decks that are stalling on the ground.
Oblivion ring: Catch-all removal for problem cards like falkenrath aristocrat, boros reckoner, and other problem permanents such as enchantments and the like. Also can target detention sphere which makes it a plus over it's azorius cousin in my opinon.
Detention Sphere: See oblivion ring above, but with the possible outcome of two-for-one trades on your opponent.
Cyclonic Rift: Definitely a sideboard card but has several great applications in board stalls
Syncopate: A great card versus reanimator and other midrange decks where you're looking to counter their haymakers and protect your own
Blind Obedience: Can be good versus aggro, but I don't think you'll need if with your larger creatures, extort could be nice though.
Supreme Verdict: Good for clearing the board in the aggro matchup and can let your curve right into a Thragtusk
Utility Lands
Alchemist's Refuge: Can be useful allowing you to flash in blockers, or perform cute combat tricks, but otherwise I'd advise against it's inclusion.
Kessig Wolf Run: In the decks that splash red this land can be a huge bonus, allowing you to trample over souls tokens and keep the pressure coming.
Gavony Township: My personal favorite utility land for the colors, allows you to outclass your opponent's creatures in board stalls and has wonderful synergy with biomancer.
Thought I would post my deck-list, after continually using this forum to help my deck. I am usually able to place top 5 in FNM's. I placed 1st at a tcg Bronze event on Sunday. Here's the breakdown:
RD 1 vs Selesyna Populate tokens:
Game 1: I won on turn 5 I believe. T1 - Arbor Elf, T2- Dreg Mangler for 3, T3 Goliath, T4- Rancor on Goliath + Abrupt Decay his Centaur healer, swing for 10, T5- handshake
Game 2: I saw more of his deck in this game. I didn't know exactly what to side in, but sided in a slip and abrupt decay for 2 trackers. He ended up going over me with Restos along with stabilizing with Trostani and centaur healers.
Game 3: I sided in trackers for his restos/trostani. I sided in Ranger's Guile for his Charms, and won with the tracker/Ooze combo.
Win 2-1
Rd 2 vs Naya Human Blitz:
Game 1: He wins die roll, and gets God hand. Handshake on turn 3 I believe.
T1-Champ, T2- BTE, BTE, Mayor, T3, Champion of the Paris, Mayor.
so that game was bad lol
Game 2: Very different game. I side out trackers and shamans, and side in abrupt decay and tragic slips. Was able to flood the field with 2 Ooze's, 1 Goliath, a Silverheart, and he was speechless after his early game stuff getting removed fast. I won btw
Game 3: I trampled over him very fast with 2 ooze's and 2 rancors with a troll blocking.
Along with a Soulbound Wolf to my ooze.
Win 2-1
Rd 3 vs Delver:
This match-up was pretty easy for me
Game 1: Pretty fast flood with Ooze + 2 Geists
Game 2: 1 Ooze and Goliath took it by turn 6 I believe
Win 2-0
RD 4: vs Esper Control
I won die roll
Game 1: T1 - Arbor Elf, T2- ooze, T3, Goliath, T4, geist, T5 - handshake. He didn't do much this game.
Game 2: I had a hard time this one. I sided in Appetite, Duress, Charms, Triumph of ferocity, and took out trackers, 1 slip, 3 goliaths, and a few other things. I had a slow start, along with bad plays, which bit me in the end. I should've played Triumph asap, instead I played an ooze T2, but realized I needed the card advantage. He ended up milling me in the end.
Game 3: This happened much like G1, except for more rancors. I think I took out rancors G2, so i sided in back in for more early damage, which helped me very much. I was able to get an arbor elf, then a Triumph of ferocity T2. I then put 2 rancors on elf, but he dissipated 1. I put 2nd one the next turn. I had 2 Ranger's guiles in hand to stop his charms, but they never came. Arbor Elf with 2 rancors ended winning it for me.
Win 2-1
I feel my deck packs early punch, along with resilience, as well as coming hard on turn 4 with a fast Soulbound Wolf. Everything is pretty similar to other Golgari aggro decks. Didn't realize how much typing went into this lol. Any questions on card choices, feel free to ask.
I like this a lot, i was recently playing the mono-green list that de tora wrote about a few weeks back and loved it, but i kept getting had by frontline medic without enough interaction so i'm splashing black this week to give it a shot, but i didn't want to give up my wolfirs for the deadbridge goliaths and i think a 3-3 split is a perfect way to go with it, and i'm glad to see that others use triumph of ferocity in the side, but has anyone considered triumph of cruelty in the side vs control instead, keeping them off cards starting on turn 3 seems better than just letting them get what they need off of sphinx's because if we attack each turn and they burn a land and a spell each turn assuming it isn't draw, and we ramp up to a cruelty on turn two following a turn 1 dork, then we can essentially eliminate their hand in about 3 turns by forcing them to be reactive before they even get off the sphinx's
Wow, so bad.
I know Chandra's never had a consistent outfit design across artists like the other walkers, but suddenlyheels? I've always liked her design for the lack of high-heels...
I kinda like her art because I think of her personality as "go anywhere" "don't care about anything" kind of gal and I think they've been trying to throw in more steampunk-esque ques to match her goggles, and the heels kinda go with it I think.
(fire makes steam, she's a redhead with a temper, doesn't care about anything except ticking jace off)
Wow, so bad.
I know Chandra's never had a consistent outfit design across artists like the other walkers, but suddenlyheels? I've always liked her design for the lack of high-heels...
I kinda like her art because I think of her personality as "go anywhere" "don't care about anything" kind of gal and I think they've been trying to throw in more steampunk-esque ques to match her goggles, and the heels kinda go with it I think.
(fire makes steam, she's a redhead with a temper, doesn't care about anything except ticking jace off)
I'm not trying to give you the boot or anything, but I just want to point out that there's actually a dedicated Grixis Midrange thread somewhere on the forum. It seems a lot of people are leaning towards that direction.
Oh no, im not posting my lists here, I'm just taking time off from control atm
Sorry, the thread's been filling up so fast I missed this post.
You can actually see the list I was running a few pages back, but the list was sans-Pillar of Flame maindeck, and I ended up going against the Naya Blitz deck the other day with it. He managed to get me 2-1 with it, and though he had nut draws on the games that he won, that's basically to be expected (with Esper I played a mono-red list that had to topdeck to beat me in 2 games with nut draws). Since my actual problem before was over-the-top decks I wanted to leave the Pillars in the sideboard, which lead me to come up with an entirely different list, which I'll be testing out on Sunday, hopefully. I'll let you know how it works out. I'm probably overreacting, considering I didn't draw a single Magmaquake in 3 games and had to look at his board of 1 toughness creatures and decide which to kill for 2 mana...but I think we can all agree that Grixis in general is lacking so I don't feel bad about scrapping the old list and trying a new direction.
The new list was based off the UB Control lists from Grand Prix Baltimore:
As you can see, that was the "pro" deck of choice that event (Delver was stonewalled by Curse of Death's Hold and everyone wanted to hate it out). This was before Undying creatures took over Standard and you can see a lot of similarities to what Grixis can run currently. Black Sun's Zenith is possibly worse than Magmaquake, especially given the undying and haste creatures, and Nicol Bolas is obnoxiously costed, but far more powerful than Consecrated Sphinx. The 3x Nephalia Drownyard is still present, and I'm hoping will prove to be the inevitable force of the deck if cutting down the curve massively impacts the ability to win.
First thing you (may) notice is that the number of cards costing 4 or more mana is only 8. If you look throughout the history of this game, that number is usually 8-12, with exceptions being the 6x sweeper decks people run these days and superfriends (Mystical Teachings another exception). I try to shoot for 10 with a deck that only runs 4 sweepers, but seeing that the UB lists were on the bottom of this curve with this, I thought I'd give it a shot. Normally you assume that Grixis/Dimir makes up for the lack of white cards with a mass of cool expensive sorceries, but I think being incredibly streamlined may be the better approach. Esper currently is on 15-18 cards over 3 mana, I believe, and a deck like Jund is likely to be on 22-25. By being more streamlined I think we can outplay the decks that theoretically have more power than we do, especially give the fact that Izzet Charm allows us to run the most counterspells maindeck in the format.
The other thing is that Curse of Death's hold isn't present, for obvious reasons. I decided to use the Tamiyo, Olivia and Lone Revenant in this slot.
Card that have been underperforming:
1.) Rakdos Keyrune: Still the best card in the deck in the same sense that Lingering Souls is great, but post-Gatecrash Searing Spear is just everywhere and against the Blitz deck not doing anything on turn 3 is never a good play. Turn 4 Keyrune + kill spell is perfectly fine, but the game is likely decided by that point. Even Esper is running up to 8 spot removal spells (Azorius Charm sort of counts). I'm cutting down to 2 copies for the moment, since I still appreciate the fact that it's a farseek and late game win condition.
2.) Lone Revenant: The heavywieght champion against creature decks, but it does little to stablilze you, which is the primary goal of this deck in a configuration like this. I don't need the card to win, basically, and there's better cards to topdeck and stay in the game with. Probably my favorite magic card printed, and I might go back up to 2 if things change (still hoping for a slagstorm style card in Dragon's Maze).
3.) Liliana of the Veil: It's very hard to find cards to discard when you actually need to hit 7-8 lands for Bolas and Forbidden Alchemy. You can discard Think Twice and Forbidden Alchemy, of course, but you still went down a card. There's only 1 matchup where she's insane, and that's Esper, which is already a high percentage matchup.
4.) Dreadbore: Was I really running 2 of this main? If it kills a planewalker it's almost guaranteed to be in a sideboard game. Planewalkers are awful right now; no one runs these maindeck really, and you have Magmaquake...
5.) Mizzium Mortars: I've had this in my list since it came out, and I can count the number of times it's been overloaded. this tells you more about the efficacy of a 2 mana kill spell vs. a 6 mana sweeper than anything, but it still is better served as another Ultimate Price for those Hellriders, in my opinion. I only run a singleton, now.
Card that are doing well:
1.) Victim of Night: Are people seriously running Murder? The :symb::symb: is brutal on my mana base and I even went down 2 basic Islands to try and work this card in, but it's been essentially a doom blade for me. If I had heavier black I'd run 3 or 4.
2.) Magmaquake: I want to fit a 4th in the maindeck, but I'm going to try it another week, since I'd be cutting a win condition for the extra copy. I think if you want to be better against blitz you run more of this. It's crucial on that final turn where they attack for 9 and you blow their board away and untap with an empty battlefield. Their haste creatures only make things worse for them. Also does the job Planar Cleansing was intended to do against Garruks. The fact that it's not dead against Control is invaluable.
3.) Tamiyo, the Moon Sage: There's a lot of weaknesses that this deck has, and non-creature permanents are at the top of that list. This could very well be a sideboard card, replaced by a 4th Magmaquake, but I've like it for Thragtusks, Wolf Runs, Underworld Connections, Drownyards, etc. There's also the hilariousness where your opponent instanly shifts gears and goes on the "keep Tamiyo off ultimate plan". I could care less if she ultimates or not, I just threw her in as a Tumble Magnet +1.
4.) Homicidal Seclusion: I originally moved this to the board, when I went down to 0 Keyrunes and 1 Revenant. I moved the Keyrunes back in, but I still want to try this in the board. The 2 Bolas in the maindeck just shift the focus to the end game. Aside from that, the card is nuts. After board you even have Izzet Staticaster, which can kill 1 toughness creatures and attack for 3 with lifelink while evading Searing Spear. Note this card also makes Olivia immune to a single Spear, which is most likely the only answer for her in aggro decks. This combo is almost better than Lone Revenant + Seclusion.
So I'll let you know how this new list does. I know I'm overreacting to my first 0-2 drop in months (played the auto-lose Esper tokens matchup round 1 and the aforementioned Naya Blitz round 2, both by 2 out of the other 3 best players in the room), but I think this new direction may be a winner.
Thanks for finally getting back to me, I've been silent on here for about a week cause I've been working on a pet project of mine and am going to be running a mono-green variation of the one de torra wrote about this week, otherwise I really like your list. I had a disappointing 0-3 drop last friday as I completely misinterpreted the metagame in my area and was crushed. I think I may also work on a grixis midrange list, since there are valuable cards we could be using such as frostburn weird to slow down the aggro game and we have access to good late-game finishers.
In the mean-time however, I'll pop in from time to time, but let me know how your new list runs
I thought Fettergeist was good, and it was, against aggro, until Vampire Nighthawk was reprinted, which is just way better. No upkeep cost, costs the same, gains you life and kills everything it blocks!
Exactly, but I still feel like even that's not too worth it against aggro because by the time turn 3 rolls around I'd rather be tapping out for rolling temblor, not to say that he's not great as a recovery creature, but that I can't find room for him in my 75, though I probably should try eventually
I think instead of trying to convince each other of our points, the simplest thing to do would be to have the proponents of Fettergeist test and it and let us know some hard data. Speculation and theory will only get us so far. It could be a sleeper hoser against aggro, I don't think it is, but that's just me. If evidence proves me wrong then I'd happily include it in my list.
I love fettergeist, and would love to use him in a deck, but in my meta personally I can't afford to drop a blocker until turn 3, at elast augur comes in turn two and grabs me some removal on the draw.
This...I feel that a lower curve emphasizing more dorks and capitalizing on either gavony or wolf run is a good way to start, by running a lower curve you can stand better chances against hyper aggro, and can also fight other midrange decks without having to be put on your heels until you can resolve an AoS or zegana or sphinx for a ton. Plus with Aetherling a thing now, multiples of AoS can be placed in the side for the midrange mirror while a Game 1 Aetherling or AoS will often be enough to end the game. Incorporating Scavenging Ooze should also be a top priority, i don't own voices and personally I don't see the need for them with control being much less of a thing atm, i believe the ooze probably plays better against aggro and is less restrictive on the mana base, against midrange if i see one late game I know for a fact i'm probably getting a mini thragtusk for 5 or 6 mana
I tried Gavony and I didn't like it as much, in the board states where there's 4-5 creatures on both sides it doesn't do anything much for a couple turns and is pretty lackluster if you get sweeped, which admittedly we sort of function as a control deck that's very weak to sweepers. My list originally ran 2 basic forests to help cast Garruk, Primal hunter without hurting the mana, I've since replaced 2 Gavony with 2 Kessig over the last two weeks and threw in 2 stomping grounds over the forests and it's actually IMPROVED my mana becuase not only do I still get two green sources turn 1 to cast a pilgrim off of, but I can also fetch a grounds using farseek to set up kessig meaning I only have to draw into the wolfrun to be able to activate it as you'll usually see at least 1 farseek by turn 5. It's really an up in the air decision though I guess. I'd argue that wolfrun is better in my situation where I've decided to mainboard the 2 faithmenders, and it does a great job of turning that T15 avacyn's pilgrim into the biggest ball lightning you've ever seen.
PS: I hated having a gavony versus any red/naya deck that had a reckoner out. It literally meant I couldn't profitably attack into it unless I wanted to take 5 or 6 damage to the face.
Really? In my testing the aristocrats has always been a favorable matchup for myself, garruk relentless will always kill a guy and rarely ever take damage because they'll either sac to the cartel or sac a guy to give him hexproof, and if its the junk version just stick a rest in peace and if they dont answer it, its literally 85-15 your favor
3 hallowed fountain
4 hinterland harbor
3 breeding pool
3 sunpetal grove
2 glacial fortress
2 stomping ground
2 kessig wolf run
2 cavern of souls
2 prime speaker zegana
2 angel of serenity
1 progenitor mimic
3 restoration angel
3 centaur healer
2 rhox faithmender
4 loxodon smiter
3 avacyn's pilgrim
2 garruk relentless
2 selesnya charm
2 jace, memory adept
4 farseek
SB
2 acidic slime
1 progenitor mimic
2 dispel
1 supreme verdict
1 sigarda, host of herons
1 garruk primal, hunter
2 advent of the wurm
1 selesnya charm
2 ray of revelation
2 rest in peace
a couple of notes the Main deck is stacked against aggro and midrange game one, with some help against control coming out of the side. the first thing that I've learned is that progenitor mimic is 9/10 times going to turn the game decidedly in your favor, I've used it to copy angel of serenity, blood baron of vizkopa, thragtusk, reckoner, rhox faithmender and any value creature honestly. He's a powerhouse and if left unchecked will win you the game. the fact that it's restoration angel target is also a huge bonus. I came in second place last FNM with this build only losing one game before the finals to Naya midrange, and then losing to jund in the finals which was mostly due to me being a bad player and not trusting my instincts on what was admittedly a bad hand. I think this deck is very resilient and has the tools to come back from very poor starts or against an overwhelming opposing board position by landing a mimic or an AoS or Zegana. That being said it plays our more like a control deck, that is admittedly very weak against verdicts and terminus. However, the format doesn't have many UWR control builds atm so you don't often find a bad matchup.
This Primer is for the development of a competitive Prime Speaker Bant deck. I will attempt to update the Primer as much as possible, and give feedback on posts. Below I will be listing possible card choices, and decklists, including your own decklists if you so choose. Feel free to post your own decks, results, and strategies below.
Card Choices
Creatures
Loxodon Smiter: Solid uncounterable threat, and great to topdeck late game.
Centaur Healer: Great for the aggro match post side, and a sizable body that can play Defense until you stabilize.
Rhox Faithmender: Double life allows you to outrace almost any aggro deck, but I believe that with 8 sources of EtB lifegain you don't need it
Arbor Elf: The usual mana dork for some lists, I personally don't believe they are needed while the pilgrim is in standard still.
Avacyn's Pilgrim: My go-to choice for mana dorks. Ramps without having to have a ravnica shock and can pseudo mana-fix.
Thragtusk: What's more to say about Mr. Thrag, he's made waves in standard since he was first printed and will be played up until the day he rotates.
Wolfir Silverheart: This guy can make zegana nutty, but until the meta shifts from blitz aggro to a more midrange based meta I'd rather have the Thragtusk as my five-drop.
Restoration Angel: Much of the same reasons above, saves your mana dork from dying in a chump block and allows for the mini-Thrag combo that generates a large amount of card advantage.
Angel of Serenity: A great curve-topper with immediate board impact that can consistently be cast on turns 5 and 6 thanks to our ramp.
Prime Speaker Zegana: The namesake for the deck, comes down with a sizable body and generates enormous amounts of card advantage.
Master Biomancer: Great "value" creature in the midrange matchups, allowing you to severely outclass even the largest threats, and if left unanswered can make bodies big enough to favorably block even craterhoof or Garruk wurms.
Planeswalkers
Garruk, Primal Hunter: The fourth and fifth Zeganas to begin with, otherwise allows you to present an alternate win condition if you are able to ult him, also helps put the breaks on aggro game 1, and has synergy with Biomancer if you curve out right, making 5/5 beasts is nothing to joke about. Overall the only planeswalker I'd ever consider including
Garruk Relentless: Helps to repopulate the board after a wipe and lets you tutor for threats late game. Don't know how I feel about him yet, he seems a little underwhelming when compared to his big brother, but the G instead of GGG makes him very appealing.
Gideon, Champion of Justice: Can be a suitable planeswalker if your meta is full of aggro, but I think he's better reserved for post-rotation when we need a new 4-drop.
Spells
Farseek: Best color fixing ramp in the format, what else is there to say.
Azorius Charm: Let's you gain a tempo boost versus aggro, draw a card late in the game, and is the second half of our sphinx's revelations (lifelink is still a viable mode of this card).
Selesnya Charm: Gives us a mainboard answer to cards like obzedat, and olivia; the trample boost also let's us roll over token decks that are stalling on the ground.
Oblivion ring: Catch-all removal for problem cards like falkenrath aristocrat, boros reckoner, and other problem permanents such as enchantments and the like. Also can target detention sphere which makes it a plus over it's azorius cousin in my opinon.
Detention Sphere: See oblivion ring above, but with the possible outcome of two-for-one trades on your opponent.
Cyclonic Rift: Definitely a sideboard card but has several great applications in board stalls
Syncopate: A great card versus reanimator and other midrange decks where you're looking to counter their haymakers and protect your own
Rest in peace: Great reanimator and control hate
Blind Obedience: Can be good versus aggro, but I don't think you'll need if with your larger creatures, extort could be nice though.
Supreme Verdict: Good for clearing the board in the aggro matchup and can let your curve right into a Thragtusk
Utility Lands
Alchemist's Refuge: Can be useful allowing you to flash in blockers, or perform cute combat tricks, but otherwise I'd advise against it's inclusion.
Kessig Wolf Run: In the decks that splash red this land can be a huge bonus, allowing you to trample over souls tokens and keep the pressure coming.
Gavony Township: My personal favorite utility land for the colors, allows you to outclass your opponent's creatures in board stalls and has wonderful synergy with biomancer.
2x Gavony Township
4x Breeding Pool
3x Hinterland harbor
4x Temple Garden
3x Sunpetal Grove
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Cavern of Souls
4x Forest
Creatures-24
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Thragtusk
4x Restoration Angel
3x Angel of serenity
3x Prime Speaker Zegana
2x Master Biomancer
2x Garruk, Primal Hunter
3x Azorius Charm
2x Selesnya Charm
1x Oblivion Ring
4x Farseek
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Garruk Relentlesss
4x Centaur Healer
1x Selesnya Charm
1x Cyclonic Rift
3x Rest in Peace
1x Jace, Memory Adept
2x Syncopate
4 Arbor Elf
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Restoration Angel
3 Strangleroot Geist
4 Thragtusk
3 Prime Speaker Zegana
5 Forest
4 Breeding Pool
3 Gavony Township
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Hinterland Harbor
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
3 Centaur Healer
1 Silklash Spider
2 Detention Sphere
3 Rest in Peace
3 Syncopate
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Jace, Memory Adept
I like this a lot, i was recently playing the mono-green list that de tora wrote about a few weeks back and loved it, but i kept getting had by frontline medic without enough interaction so i'm splashing black this week to give it a shot, but i didn't want to give up my wolfirs for the deadbridge goliaths and i think a 3-3 split is a perfect way to go with it, and i'm glad to see that others use triumph of ferocity in the side, but has anyone considered triumph of cruelty in the side vs control instead, keeping them off cards starting on turn 3 seems better than just letting them get what they need off of sphinx's because if we attack each turn and they burn a land and a spell each turn assuming it isn't draw, and we ramp up to a cruelty on turn two following a turn 1 dork, then we can essentially eliminate their hand in about 3 turns by forcing them to be reactive before they even get off the sphinx's
I kinda like her art because I think of her personality as "go anywhere" "don't care about anything" kind of gal and I think they've been trying to throw in more steampunk-esque ques to match her goggles, and the heels kinda go with it I think.
(fire makes steam, she's a redhead with a temper, doesn't care about anything except ticking jace off)
I kinda like her art because I think of her personality as "go anywhere" "don't care about anything" kind of gal and I think they've been trying to throw in more steampunk-esque ques to match her goggles, and the heels kinda go with it I think.
(fire makes steam, she's a redhead with a temper, doesn't care about anything except ticking jace off)
Oh no, im not posting my lists here, I'm just taking time off from control atm
Thanks for finally getting back to me, I've been silent on here for about a week cause I've been working on a pet project of mine and am going to be running a mono-green variation of the one de torra wrote about this week, otherwise I really like your list. I had a disappointing 0-3 drop last friday as I completely misinterpreted the metagame in my area and was crushed. I think I may also work on a grixis midrange list, since there are valuable cards we could be using such as frostburn weird to slow down the aggro game and we have access to good late-game finishers.
In the mean-time however, I'll pop in from time to time, but let me know how your new list runs
Exactly, but I still feel like even that's not too worth it against aggro because by the time turn 3 rolls around I'd rather be tapping out for rolling temblor, not to say that he's not great as a recovery creature, but that I can't find room for him in my 75, though I probably should try eventually