Have you actually considered using the Gatekeeper creatures from Dragon's Maze? They'll roadblock aggro much more effectively than Gatecreeper Vines will, and the 7 points of life that the green one gives you may turn out to be relevant.
The gatecreeper is nice to search for gates you still need.
My opponent drops a turn 5 Master of Cruelties. My turn 5 I play another creature (2 creatues). His turn 6 he puts Deviant Glee on his Master and swings (I don't have enough toughness to block out the trample). I am now sad as it is 20-1 in life totals.
I don't think there is anything I can really do, but then I draw Smelt-ward Gatekeepers and I have 2 gates out! I steal it, and all he has out is a Boros Keyrune without sufficient mana to activate. Now its 1-1. He doesn't topdeck the kill, while I have the kill on the board next turn anyway.
Hahaha, seems like you've persuaded me! What should i take out for him?
How have the Selesnya Charms been treating you? I had them in for a while but recently sided them out since I already have enough trample and not many people aren't running Thundermaw and other huge threats to remove any more... though, I am not sure if it was the right thing to do yet or not.
Also, I am on the fence about Hellrider, since Hellrider loves when you attack with a bunch of little dudes. Even though I have them, I don't run them since I am usually only attacking with 1-2, maybe 3 creatures at a time.
Also, what are everyones thoughts on Silverblade Paladin?
Silveblade has a special place in my heart. If you have the ramp, t1 Pilgrim t2 Smiter/Reckoner t3 Silverblade + Rancor and swing for 12/10.
Though I took the ramp out of my deck, but the double strike works sooo well with trample, so I like him in my deck that runs rancors/ghor-clan rampagers. Ghor-Clan bloodrush on a doublestriker may be my favorite thing in standard, since if I am swinging with a paired Smiter and they chump block a 1/1, you go "JK 8/8 trample doublestrike, you take 15"
Didn't do so hot at the last FNM (1-3). Some nights you just can't seem to draw a hand. Not once did I draw a hand (or even mulligan to a hand) where I thought "Yeah, I can work with this."
What do you guys think of the modified version of my deck posted on the previous page?
I haven't tested it yet, but here is the thought process of my changes.
I took out Avacyn's Pilgrim since it was too inconsistent with only 8 forests, and drawing him late sucked. I figured it was add Arbor Elf and go more midrangey, or take out the Pilgrim and go more aggro. Hence the Stromkirk Noble (who works really well with the double-strike trample theme since double strike gives it 2 +1/+1 counters). I chose Stromkirk as my 1-drop since I'll be adding mountains for the Boar anyway, so I wanted the 1-drop to be red.
Added BTE to chain into boars or spears.
Added 2x Mountain for higher chance of t1 Stromkirk and buffed Boar.
I want to try the Volcanic Strength since most people at my FNM have switched to Naya, Jund, or American Flash, so most people have mountains. Will side them out against non-red.
I moved Boros Charm to the side since I am not seeing a whole lot of Supreme Verdict any more. I am worried since the 4 to the dome and double-strike if I don't have a Silverblade Paladin out... maybe I'll throw them back in. Maybe over the Volcanic Strength and take out 1 other card? Especially with the noble now, more double-strike would be nice.
EDIT: though, thinking about it, I am not 100% sold on BTE with only Boar and Spear to chain in to... any suggestions?
I haven't tested it yet, but here is the thought process of my changes.
I took out Avacyn's Pilgrim since it was too inconsistent with only 8 forests, and drawing him late sucked. I figured it was add Arbor Elf and go more midrangey, or take out the Pilgrim and go more aggro. Hence the Stromkirk Noble (who works really well with the double-strike trample theme since double strike gives it 2 +1/+1 counters).
Added BTE to chain into boars or spears.
Added 2x Mountain for higher chance of t1 Stromkirk and buffed Boar.
I want to try the Volcanic Strength since most people at my FNM have switched to Naya, Jund, or American Flash, so most people have mountains. Will side them out against non-red.
I moved Boros Charm to the side since I am not seeing a whole lot of Supreme Verdict any more. I am worried since the 4 to the dome and double-strike if I don't have a Silverblade Paladin out... maybe I'll throw them back in. Maybe over the Volcanic Strength and take out 1 other card? Especially with the noble now, more double-strike would be nice.
EDIT: though, thinking about it, I am not 100% sold on BTE with only Boar and Spear to chain in to... any suggestions?
It runs well, but there are some changes I want to make (sideboard could use an overhaul as well).
Cards I am on the fence about already in the deck: Garruk Relentless - Most of the time he is a Searing Spear for 3G, very rarely am I using him to search for Sigarda.
Selesnya Charm - The surprise trample is nice for double strikers who don't already have trample, but most of the time it is redundant. I'm thinking of moving to sideboard against fatties for the removal.
Boros Charm - Yes, everything this card does is amazing, but most of the time the double strike mode is redundant, though the reach and indestructibility is nice. Was thinking of moving to SB to side in vs, Supreme Verdict
Avacyn's Pilgrim - I love this card, as it allows for T2 Smiter/Reckoner -> t3 Silveblade/Rancor, but as is he is the only acceleration I have, and I can only t1 him if I draw one of my 8 Forests at the moment, which isn't happening enough.
Cards I am considering to put in: Experiment One - This guy can often turn into a 3/3 most of the time, and a 4/4 with Smiter. Though I would run into the same problem as pilgrim - 8 forests.
Domri Rade - I really want to run Domri as card draw and removal, though I want to add at least 4 more creatures if I do, which begs the question: what do I take out?
Your list is exactly that type that the boys over at the Naya Zoo primer in developing are talking about. Join them over there, im sure they'd be happy to get more members.
Yeah I may try to go there after I get permission to post there..
FNM update
I ran the same deck and had a bit more trouble this week. Overall went 3-2, here is a brief match recap:
1: Win (2-1) vs ramp omniscience deck.
Lost the first game since it was either kill him before he ramps too hard or I lose. I lost. The next two games I mulled till I had a hand I was confident would kill him by turn 5 and was pretty easy.
2: Win (2-0) vs Boros Aggro
It was a deck they threw together that day, it wasn't a very good deck... easy win.
3: Win (2-0) vs American Flash/Control
This matchup was a bit harder. Game 1 I almost lost and only won due to topdecking a boar for the final damage I needed while he was tapped out from verdicting the previous turn. Game 2 Faith's Shield easily kepy my creatures from being Azorius Charmed or Snapcastered.
4: Loss (0-2) vs Jund Midrange/Control
This guy won 5-0 last week and was 3-0 going in to this match. I could have done better if I could get better draws, but he just had far too much removal for me to be able to do much. Thragtusk, Huntmaster, and removal just made work of me..
5: Loss (1-2) vs B/W Zombies
I lost game 1, but would have easily won if I had drawn a trample card or a boros charm within 4 turns. I had Sigarda out and he had 4 tokens from linger souls. When I played sigarda he had 4 life. He was able to chump block 4 turns, but could not draw a charm for the kill or any sort of rancor - I drew 4 lands and lost. Game 2 Silverblade and Reckoner with rancor did work. Game 3 I kept a 2 land 6 card hand (2 land, Boar, Reckoner, Silveblade, Rampager) on the draw. Proceeded to not draw mana for 8 more turns and lost (easy win if I had drawn even 1 more mana within the first couple turns..)
So this week I was mana screwed far more often, even though it was the same deck. Black control/removal is giving me by far the hardest time, and am not sure how to deal with it.
Well, considering the success I had with the deck last week, I don't think I will be changing much, if at all (though I may replace the 2 garruks). Will update how it does again.
Drifting Skies: Thank you for such a comprehensive response!
You make a good point about the Smiter and Experiment One. I have been thinking about trying to add Experiment One, BTE, and a couple Domris but am unsure what to take out.
Obviously, -2 garruck. The selesnya charms have actually been fairly helpful most of the time. It gives instant speed trample (if I don't have rampager in hand) for my double strikers, it gives me instant speed pairing with silverblade or instant speed blockers, and is helpful for removing thrags/hellkites/other threats (or any 3+ power creature if I throw a rancor on them for just a G more), but could arguably be taken out if say Experiment One or BTE would make the deck more consistent.
If I run BTE the only two drops I can spawn off them is the Boar and other BTEs. Should I be adding Searing Spear for spot removal/BTE chaining?
And I am not sure whether to call this blitz or midrange, since it is a mix of both. I like the mix, since I don't like pure midrange (since I don't want to buy thrags/restos/huntmasters/etc), and pure blitz has too many small creatures for my taste so I like where the deck stands, but I like the fact that E1 can get to be a 4/4 fairly quickly and the BTE is a free creature most of the time.
G1: Win
t1 pilgrim, t2 Reckoner, t3 rancor + silveblade paladin for 10. Killed him t4.
G2: Win
This one was closer, but he had an odd assortment of cards and my deck was just more consistent.
Match 4 (Win 2-0): vs Naya Aggro/Midrange
G1: Win
He gets mana screwed, I just play my cards and win.
G2: Win
Three rampagers as tricks in my hand with silveblade and loxodon smiter out. Another somewhat quick win (slowed slightly by a Thragtusk
Match 5 (Win 2-1): vs Naya Huntmaster/Bonfire/Resto/Reckoner
G1: Win
He kept a 1 land hand and paid for it.
G2: Loss
Him playing first just let him get out Huntmaster of the Fells and other cards before I could deal with them.
G3: Win
He keeps another 1 land hand but actually draws 3 more mana int he next three turns. This was a close game but ultimately came down to using many combat ricks (Ghor-Clan Rampager, Boros Charm, [and CARD]Selsnya Charm[/CARD] were all played on the same turn once).
The deck plays better with the boars instead of the strangleroots since 1G is much easier to handle than GG. Cards I am flirting with are Searing Spear, Experiment One, Aurelia, the Warleader, Restoration Angel. I am not sure how to get these in though since I don't know what to take out. At the very least I am thinking of maybe doing:
since most of the time Garruk is just a 3G Searing Spear.
Since I only have 8 mountains and 8 forests for the boar and pilgrim, I am trying to figure out how to add more to the deck while keeping consistent mana. Also, I'd like to add either Kessig Wolf Run or Gavony Township, but am unsure how to reallocate mana.
1UR
Creature - Chimera
Flying, trample
Spellheart Chimera's power is equal to the number of instant and sorcery cards in your graveyard.
*/3
What do you guys think of this guy in an izzet blitz/control deck, along with our friend Young Pyromancer?
The gatecreeper is nice to search for gates you still need.
My opponent drops a turn 5 Master of Cruelties. My turn 5 I play another creature (2 creatues). His turn 6 he puts Deviant Glee on his Master and swings (I don't have enough toughness to block out the trample). I am now sad as it is 20-1 in life totals.
I don't think there is anything I can really do, but then I draw Smelt-ward Gatekeepers and I have 2 gates out! I steal it, and all he has out is a Boros Keyrune without sufficient mana to activate. Now its 1-1. He doesn't topdeck the kill, while I have the kill on the board next turn anyway.
It felt dirty, but oh so good.
How have the Selesnya Charms been treating you? I had them in for a while but recently sided them out since I already have enough trample and not many people aren't running Thundermaw and other huge threats to remove any more... though, I am not sure if it was the right thing to do yet or not.
Also, I am on the fence about Hellrider, since Hellrider loves when you attack with a bunch of little dudes. Even though I have them, I don't run them since I am usually only attacking with 1-2, maybe 3 creatures at a time.
You seem to be forgetting Loxodon Smiter will evolve him most of the time as well!
Silveblade has a special place in my heart. If you have the ramp, t1 Pilgrim t2 Smiter/Reckoner t3 Silverblade + Rancor and swing for 12/10.
Though I took the ramp out of my deck, but the double strike works sooo well with trample, so I like him in my deck that runs rancors/ghor-clan rampagers. Ghor-Clan bloodrush on a doublestriker may be my favorite thing in standard, since if I am swinging with a paired Smiter and they chump block a 1/1, you go "JK 8/8 trample doublestrike, you take 15"
What do you guys think of the modified version of my deck posted on the previous page?
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Flinthoof Boar
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Silverblade Paladin
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
Spells: 8
3x Rancor
3x Searing Spear
2x Volcanic Strength
2x Mountain
3x Clifftop Retreat
3x Rootbound Crag
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Stomping Ground
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Boros Charm
4x Faith's Shield
2x Rest in Peace
2x Blasphemous Act
I haven't tested it yet, but here is the thought process of my changes.
I took out Avacyn's Pilgrim since it was too inconsistent with only 8 forests, and drawing him late sucked. I figured it was add Arbor Elf and go more midrangey, or take out the Pilgrim and go more aggro. Hence the Stromkirk Noble (who works really well with the double-strike trample theme since double strike gives it 2 +1/+1 counters). I chose Stromkirk as my 1-drop since I'll be adding mountains for the Boar anyway, so I wanted the 1-drop to be red.
Added BTE to chain into boars or spears.
Added 2x Mountain for higher chance of t1 Stromkirk and buffed Boar.
I want to try the Volcanic Strength since most people at my FNM have switched to Naya, Jund, or American Flash, so most people have mountains. Will side them out against non-red.
I moved Boros Charm to the side since I am not seeing a whole lot of Supreme Verdict any more. I am worried since the 4 to the dome and double-strike if I don't have a Silverblade Paladin out... maybe I'll throw them back in. Maybe over the Volcanic Strength and take out 1 other card? Especially with the noble now, more double-strike would be nice.
EDIT: though, thinking about it, I am not 100% sold on BTE with only Boar and Spear to chain in to... any suggestions?
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Flinthoof Boar
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Silverblade Paladin
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
Spells: 8
3x Rancor
3x Searing Spear
2x Volcanic Strength
2x Mountain
3x Clifftop Retreat
3x Rootbound Crag
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Stomping Ground
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Boros Charm
4x Faith's Shield
2x Rest in Peace
2x Blasphemous Act
I haven't tested it yet, but here is the thought process of my changes.
I took out Avacyn's Pilgrim since it was too inconsistent with only 8 forests, and drawing him late sucked. I figured it was add Arbor Elf and go more midrangey, or take out the Pilgrim and go more aggro. Hence the Stromkirk Noble (who works really well with the double-strike trample theme since double strike gives it 2 +1/+1 counters).
Added BTE to chain into boars or spears.
Added 2x Mountain for higher chance of t1 Stromkirk and buffed Boar.
I want to try the Volcanic Strength since most people at my FNM have switched to Naya, Jund, or American Flash, so most people have mountains. Will side them out against non-red.
I moved Boros Charm to the side since I am not seeing a whole lot of Supreme Verdict any more. I am worried since the 4 to the dome and double-strike if I don't have a Silverblade Paladin out... maybe I'll throw them back in. Maybe over the Volcanic Strength and take out 1 other card? Especially with the noble now, more double-strike would be nice.
EDIT: though, thinking about it, I am not 100% sold on BTE with only Boar and Spear to chain in to... any suggestions?
Discussion about it can be seen in this thread http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=488153&page=2
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Flinthoof Boar
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Silverblade Paladin
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
Spells: 12
4x Rancor
3x Boros Charm
3x Selesnya Charm
2x Garruk Relentless
4x Clifftop Retreat
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Stomping Ground
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden
1x Frontline Medic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Boros Charm
4x Faith's Shield
3x Purify the Grave
2x Blasphemous Act
It runs well, but there are some changes I want to make (sideboard could use an overhaul as well).
Cards I am on the fence about already in the deck:
Garruk Relentless - Most of the time he is a Searing Spear for 3G, very rarely am I using him to search for Sigarda.
Selesnya Charm - The surprise trample is nice for double strikers who don't already have trample, but most of the time it is redundant. I'm thinking of moving to sideboard against fatties for the removal.
Boros Charm - Yes, everything this card does is amazing, but most of the time the double strike mode is redundant, though the reach and indestructibility is nice. Was thinking of moving to SB to side in vs, Supreme Verdict
Avacyn's Pilgrim - I love this card, as it allows for T2 Smiter/Reckoner -> t3 Silveblade/Rancor, but as is he is the only acceleration I have, and I can only t1 him if I draw one of my 8 Forests at the moment, which isn't happening enough.
Cards I am considering to put in:
Experiment One - This guy can often turn into a 3/3 most of the time, and a 4/4 with Smiter. Though I would run into the same problem as pilgrim - 8 forests.
Domri Rade - I really want to run Domri as card draw and removal, though I want to add at least 4 more creatures if I do, which begs the question: what do I take out?
Burning-Tree Emissary - Chain into boar... what's not to love?
Searing Spear abd/or Mizzium Mortars - Clear the way for the double strikers/remove annoying things.
Aurelia, The Warleader - As a 1 or 2 of, as a finisher late game.
For now, I really want to add 4x Domri and 4 more creatures, which would probably replace 2x Garruk, 3x Selesnya Charm... and I don't know what else.
I don't want to go pure blitz, or pure midrange, hence why I am posting in the zoo forum.
Any help is appreciated, thanks!
Yeah I may try to go there after I get permission to post there..
FNM update
I ran the same deck and had a bit more trouble this week. Overall went 3-2, here is a brief match recap:
1: Win (2-1) vs ramp omniscience deck.
Lost the first game since it was either kill him before he ramps too hard or I lose. I lost. The next two games I mulled till I had a hand I was confident would kill him by turn 5 and was pretty easy.
2: Win (2-0) vs Boros Aggro
It was a deck they threw together that day, it wasn't a very good deck... easy win.
3: Win (2-0) vs American Flash/Control
This matchup was a bit harder. Game 1 I almost lost and only won due to topdecking a boar for the final damage I needed while he was tapped out from verdicting the previous turn. Game 2 Faith's Shield easily kepy my creatures from being Azorius Charmed or Snapcastered.
4: Loss (0-2) vs Jund Midrange/Control
This guy won 5-0 last week and was 3-0 going in to this match. I could have done better if I could get better draws, but he just had far too much removal for me to be able to do much. Thragtusk, Huntmaster, and removal just made work of me..
5: Loss (1-2) vs B/W Zombies
I lost game 1, but would have easily won if I had drawn a trample card or a boros charm within 4 turns. I had Sigarda out and he had 4 tokens from linger souls. When I played sigarda he had 4 life. He was able to chump block 4 turns, but could not draw a charm for the kill or any sort of rancor - I drew 4 lands and lost. Game 2 Silverblade and Reckoner with rancor did work. Game 3 I kept a 2 land 6 card hand (2 land, Boar, Reckoner, Silveblade, Rampager) on the draw. Proceeded to not draw mana for 8 more turns and lost (easy win if I had drawn even 1 more mana within the first couple turns..)
So this week I was mana screwed far more often, even though it was the same deck. Black control/removal is giving me by far the hardest time, and am not sure how to deal with it.
I really like Eric Froehlich's deck at http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptgtc13/Top_8_Decks (the last deck on the page) and may try to emulate something like it. Right now losing card advantage is a problem and Domri Rade could help with that I think, provided i make room for at least 28 creatures.
Any suggestions based on my previous post?
You make a good point about the Smiter and Experiment One. I have been thinking about trying to add Experiment One, BTE, and a couple Domris but am unsure what to take out.
Obviously, -2 garruck. The selesnya charms have actually been fairly helpful most of the time. It gives instant speed trample (if I don't have rampager in hand) for my double strikers, it gives me instant speed pairing with silverblade or instant speed blockers, and is helpful for removing thrags/hellkites/other threats (or any 3+ power creature if I throw a rancor on them for just a G more), but could arguably be taken out if say Experiment One or BTE would make the deck more consistent.
If I run BTE the only two drops I can spawn off them is the Boar and other BTEs. Should I be adding Searing Spear for spot removal/BTE chaining?
And I am not sure whether to call this blitz or midrange, since it is a mix of both. I like the mix, since I don't like pure midrange (since I don't want to buy thrags/restos/huntmasters/etc), and pure blitz has too many small creatures for my taste so I like where the deck stands, but I like the fact that E1 can get to be a 4/4 fairly quickly and the BTE is a free creature most of the time.
I went 5-0-0 and and came in 2nd out of 34 people (lost 1st to tie breaker since I got paired down for my last match =\)
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Flinthoof Boar
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Silverblade Paladin
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
Spells: 12
4x Rancor
3x Boros Charm
3x Selesnya Charm
2x Garruk Relentless
4x Clifftop Retreat
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Stomping Ground
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden
1x Frontline Medic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Boros Charm
4x Faith's Shield
3x Purify the Grave
2x Blasphemous Act
Match 1 (Win 2-1): vs Naya Human Aggro
G1: Win
I didn't lose in the first few turns so my bigger mid game crushed.
G2: Loss
His Mayor of Avabruck got to flip and make too many wolves, paired with his Frontline Medic he had too many blockers.
G3: Win
t1 Avacyn's Pilgrim, t2 Boros Reckoner, t3 Boros Reckoner, t4 Blasphemous Act for 26 to his face (he also had 3 creatures, making the act cost 3).
Match 2 (Win 2-1): vs U/W/G ramp/control
G1: Win
He got mana screwed, I won.
G2: Loss
Too much control for me to handle, especially with him playing first.
G3: Win
Sigarda, Host of Herons with two Rancor on her swung for 9. They play Thragtusk to go back to 16. He has no blockers and I swing and pump with 2x Ghor-Clan Rampager for the kill.
Match 3 (Win 2-0): vs R/W aggro/control
G1: Win
t1 pilgrim, t2 Reckoner, t3 rancor + silveblade paladin for 10. Killed him t4.
G2: Win
This one was closer, but he had an odd assortment of cards and my deck was just more consistent.
Match 4 (Win 2-0): vs Naya Aggro/Midrange
G1: Win
He gets mana screwed, I just play my cards and win.
G2: Win
Three rampagers as tricks in my hand with silveblade and loxodon smiter out. Another somewhat quick win (slowed slightly by a Thragtusk
Match 5 (Win 2-1): vs Naya Huntmaster/Bonfire/Resto/Reckoner
G1: Win
He kept a 1 land hand and paid for it.
G2: Loss
Him playing first just let him get out Huntmaster of the Fells and other cards before I could deal with them.
G3: Win
He keeps another 1 land hand but actually draws 3 more mana int he next three turns. This was a close game but ultimately came down to using many combat ricks (Ghor-Clan Rampager, Boros Charm, [and CARD]Selsnya Charm[/CARD] were all played on the same turn once).
The deck plays better with the boars instead of the strangleroots since 1G is much easier to handle than GG. Cards I am flirting with are Searing Spear, Experiment One, Aurelia, the Warleader, Restoration Angel. I am not sure how to get these in though since I don't know what to take out. At the very least I am thinking of maybe doing:
-2x Garruk Relentless
+2x Restoration Angel
since most of the time Garruk is just a 3G Searing Spear.
Since I only have 8 mountains and 8 forests for the boar and pilgrim, I am trying to figure out how to add more to the deck while keeping consistent mana. Also, I'd like to add either Kessig Wolf Run or Gavony Township, but am unsure how to reallocate mana.
Thoughts?
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Flinthoof Boar
4x Gyre Sage
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Silverblade Paladin
2x Aurelia, the Warleader
4x Rancor
4x Boros Charm
3x Selesnya Charm
Land: 24
4x Clifftop Retreat
2x Mountain
3x Rootbound Crag
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Stomping Ground
3x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden