I think if you do any kind testing with a high amount of games you will lean away from the pox after a few iterations. It's just too "swingy" of a card for me. When it hits, it hits big, but more often its a dead card in your hand - at least until you can sculpt a game state in which the card nets you some advantage. The main difficulty is the land sacrifice. The deck operates on a shockingly low 3 land cap, but you MUST get those 3 lands or the deck clogs and fumbles.
Use it if you like, many folks here do. I prefer a less risky, less rewardy build.
Same opinion here.
It's all about consistency.
I feel like Pox is truly competitive in a Pox designed deck (I have that BWg and it's a blast)
Just throwing it out there but how would Bloodcheif acension work out in this deck?
Its not the theme of the deck but also adding 1-2 Mindcrank its technically a instawin if u get it online. Throw in a one-of Duskmantle guildmage to enable the combo easier.
Is this all wrong? Just pitch ideas.
Everything you mentioned is very slow and also needs to combo out, which are 2 points that can't fit in this tight deck, which is no combo.
Tried all the nifty things like that 'cos I'm a fan too of weird cards but there's really no place for it here.
e.g. Bloodchief, by the time you ticked 3 times opponent with your killers, it means your lock is stable and ascension would just be unnecessary
e.g. Mindcrank well I don't really see the point in it, it's like an inefficient combo-requiring mill engine
All these add to the already existent inconsistency of the deck.
Here's a couple replays from this weekend. I plan on playing in the Premier Event later today with 8Rack and I will record it. Wish me luck, I usually have terrible luck and tons of misplays in big events.
I've been playing this deck for ages and I always suffered from its inconsistency. Sign in Blood makes us reach what we need faster (and finish opponent in extreme cases), and it's not a problem with Bridge since most of our stuff costs 1 (so we can cast them asap) and the 3 CMC things don't stack, so we can get rid of them most of the time.
The lack of more Dakmor Salvage and Mutavault are to decrease inconsistency [and vulnerability] as well (our turn 1 is CRUCIAL, and the following first turns as well, we want to empty their hands by discarding more than 1 card per turn, and we can't with colorless mana or tapped lands). Also, Muta and Bridge, nope.
The deck NEEDS to be fluent to work, or we'll be dead defenseless in 3 to 4 turns.
So I thought it's better to reach few things faster than more things slower ('cos we die in the process).
I tried every possible tutor many times and they all failed miserably.
The Infernal Tutor clugs us like hell due to Lili/Mists, and we generally don't want a double of what we have ('cos we need the lock+kill which is made by 3 DIFFERENT pieces) Beseech the Queen and any other tutor with 3+ CMC is just too heavy to pay for and increases our 3 CMC count which is already high and very unwelcome in this unexpensive and land-self-destroying deck.
After countless tests I just gave up on the idea.
And that's why drawing instead of tutoring.
Deathrite Shaman is a great card, even if it's to discard their removal [they HAVE to answer it], but I found multiples useless and clugging. The list is too tight to allow secondary things, our most powerful weapon is discarding, period. Dismember is my favorite removal especially in this deck for many reasons (I won't expand now), and they used to be 3 but I couldn't find any other place for Sign in Blood, furthermore, usually only 1 creature gets saved by the discarding, or 1 creature bothers with abilities, and that's as much removal as we need, Ensnaring Bridge will do the rest.
The complete lack of non-targeted removal except for Raven's Crime (that card is AWESOME in this deck) is because we NEED information like hell, and constantly having opponent's hand under sight is too much to give up, even to cards like Wrench Mind or Blackmail.
Never had regrets on that choice.
Sideboard is pretty self explanatory, even though it's still under construction.
Leylines are the best part of it so far, very often they just win the games for you.
I did deep (practical and not theorical) study on the perfect number of discards other than Lili in the deck, and whenever I go under <16, it's a disaster. With >=18, we have lots of dead draws after turn 4.
I'll try to stop writing now, but if you have questions, I have reasoning behind every single thing and will try to explain. [I also have a written log of all the recent games and changes to deck since I took it seriously like one of my mains]
Oh and I also tried Red, Green, and White splash for various reasons, and despite being good, yet again consistency for our main core cards is THE MOST important thing for constant and reliable wins vs any deck, and a not perfect and invulnerable mana base is enemy number one.
This deck is THE identity (and, therefore, cruelty) of Black in MTG, so any step we take away from the color, is a step away from our main target.
Thanks for the nice comment. I will stick to casting live games for now and try to work on keeping my commentary a bit more...complete?
The hardest part about casting games live for me is that I sometimes need all of my concentration focused on actually playing the game itself. I think I will set up some hotkeys to pause the recording when i need time to think. Thanks for the input.
Oh no don't worry about that.
I think it's natural to hear and it's fine, we are all used to live streaming now.
I was talking about the other ones, not the live ones
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Well as Claw is an artifact and red can destroy it that alone makes it worse.
Enough to not consider the disadvantages and the fact that if we don't have it in the starting hand we are without side and dead cards?
Genuine question, I'm not sarcastic.
I love the efficiency of Leyline and always used it myself, but just because I had backup plans to cast it too.
[I still hate the concept of leylines as I don't agree in the existence of uncounterable cards that can kill an entire deck just because it tries to be alternative]
Hi all. As some of you know I create a lot of original decks. My most recent creation is 8Rack and I decided to implement a lot of videos into the stickied Primer for that deck. I found I like making the videos so I plan on using this thread to organize and share my trials and tribulations in the MTG universe. I did not see any specific forum for sharing of streams or replays, and since all of my games are in the Modern format I figured I would just start this thread here. I will organize these replays by date and use the spoiler tags to keep it neat and organized. As I upload new matches I will edit the original post as well as add them to the thread's discussion (if any).
Thoughts? Opinions? Hate? Let me know.
I will start things off with a large batch of replays, mostly from my Primers:
Despite always being a lurker I always followed your deck even before it was a primer and I'm a huge fan of it. [in fact I actually stumbled upon it because I made a home-brew time ago myself and searching for suggestion on MTGS I actually found that you made it already and it was almost identical! xD]
The fact you do videos like these puts the primer ahead of I believe any other primer around here.
The recorded videos are nice for the extensive explanation, and the only critique to it is that maybe you should plan ahead on what to say (more or less) because like this there are many dead moments or many moments in which you take forever to say something very simple
The live videos eliminate this problem obviously and are more exciting to follow, without losing much [but I already commented in detail on YouTube to which you answered me as well].
Another thing maybe is you could add the decklist you used in the video in the video's description (as well as some other key information).
Also, to add to the primer, you could do like you can see in some other primers a Match Up list with chances of winning/losing (more importantly the key cards to keep in mind etc etc) and the SB switch you do.
Ravens Crime comes out when Grafdiggers comes in. DRS comes out for leyline. DRS comes out sometimes for pithing.
Its a crap shoot.
Thx for the answer <3
I'm trying to replace 4 Grafdigger's Cage (Raven is a key in the deck) with 2 Torpor Orb and 2 Pithing Needle.
The hope is to make the SB more versatile, keep the Raven, but still hate Pod in the same way [we still have 4 Leyline of the Void in case we need GY hate].
I'll see also if 3 Needle and 1 Orb is a better combination, but I know how Orb shuts down completely some decks until they answer so I think I'll keep it at 2.
What are your thoughts?
Also why do you keep Leyline of Sanctity?
If it's vs Burn, wouldn't you prefer Dragon's Claw?
Reasons: they stack, they are actually castable, they can be used vs other red based/splashed decks as a bonus and they are cheap
Grand Architect + pili-pala = massive ramp in U decks.
Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! Thx!
Now that I remember I saw once some dude playing that, cool!
Now I can start putting up a decklist, thx everyone!
I want to make a MonoU ramp deck [please don't tell me how it can't be competitive, I'm not trying to make a competitive deck with this one].
I can't find any way to ramp other than Extraplanar Lens with Snow-Covered Islands. For example in my MonoB ramp I use Crypt Ghasts.
Colorless/phyrexian ways to ramp are welcome, even though the plan is to stay away from Tron, I need too many UUUUU and I don't want to be too vulnerable to land hate.
Even very silly ways are welcome, just throw in any card that comes to mind that can ramp for blue. Even stuff like make a green deck to ramp then use this card to transform your green color into U and cast your blue biggies. Oh and I'm aware of Quest for Ula's Temple
Please gief some cards/ideas and I will gief back gratitude in the form of not countering everything you play <3
Predator type of art has been seen and used a gazillion times, while the alien type slivers were unique and very "twisting".
My vote goes for the Aliens, despite liking the quality of predator art more than the other one, but that is just natural becomes of progress through time.
Artists do get better <3
Any space for Boros Reckoner?
Its cost is like colorless 3, it survives our Pyroclasms, if they want to take it out with Lightning Bolt or anything of the like they are going to get hurt, which we like since we don't output great damage with this deck, it comes with all the plus of creatures and it beats any >=3/<=3 with FS, it can also be pumped by Elspeth or Boros Charm
Can't find a spot however.
Same opinion here.
It's all about consistency.
I feel like Pox is truly competitive in a Pox designed deck (I have that BWg and it's a blast)
Interesting deck, I always wanted to do a MUC that is not Fairy/Merfolk but I somehow always forget I have to
I like that we have such similar ideas and I'd say an identical ideal approach to MTG.
Do you have a thread for that deck?
Where can I post my thoughts?
Everything you mentioned is very slow and also needs to combo out, which are 2 points that can't fit in this tight deck, which is no combo.
Tried all the nifty things like that 'cos I'm a fan too of weird cards but there's really no place for it here.
e.g. Bloodchief, by the time you ticked 3 times opponent with your killers, it means your lock is stable and ascension would just be unnecessary
e.g. Mindcrank well I don't really see the point in it, it's like an inefficient combo-requiring mill engine
All these add to the already existent inconsistency of the deck.
Good Luck!!!
Bring positive energy, don't expect bad luck, don't say "usually" followed by bad stuff
I'm sure you'll do great, as the power of the Swamps is with you!
On a side note, this is my current interpretation of the deck.
[with the name I gave it before you were around! XD]
4 The Rack
4 Shrieking Affliction
1 Deathrite Shaman
Anti-Creatures
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Dismember
Discard
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Necrogen Mists
4 Raven's Crime
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
1 Despise
4 Sign in Blood
Lands
21 Swamp
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Pithing Needle
2 Torpor Orb
1 Darkblast
1 Infest
Sign in Blood is a new addition (in the place of 1 Necrogen Mists, 1 Blackmail, 2 Dismember) and I still have to test properly, but so far it's been great.
I've been playing this deck for ages and I always suffered from its inconsistency.
Sign in Blood makes us reach what we need faster (and finish opponent in extreme cases), and it's not a problem with Bridge since most of our stuff costs 1 (so we can cast them asap) and the 3 CMC things don't stack, so we can get rid of them most of the time.
The lack of more Dakmor Salvage and Mutavault are to decrease inconsistency [and vulnerability] as well (our turn 1 is CRUCIAL, and the following first turns as well, we want to empty their hands by discarding more than 1 card per turn, and we can't with colorless mana or tapped lands). Also, Muta and Bridge, nope.
The deck NEEDS to be fluent to work, or we'll be dead defenseless in 3 to 4 turns.
So I thought it's better to reach few things faster than more things slower ('cos we die in the process).
I tried every possible tutor many times and they all failed miserably.
The Infernal Tutor clugs us like hell due to Lili/Mists, and we generally don't want a double of what we have ('cos we need the lock+kill which is made by 3 DIFFERENT pieces)
Beseech the Queen and any other tutor with 3+ CMC is just too heavy to pay for and increases our 3 CMC count which is already high and very unwelcome in this unexpensive and land-self-destroying deck.
After countless tests I just gave up on the idea.
And that's why drawing instead of tutoring.
Deathrite Shaman is a great card, even if it's to discard their removal [they HAVE to answer it], but I found multiples useless and clugging. The list is too tight to allow secondary things, our most powerful weapon is discarding, period.
Dismember is my favorite removal especially in this deck for many reasons (I won't expand now), and they used to be 3 but I couldn't find any other place for Sign in Blood, furthermore, usually only 1 creature gets saved by the discarding, or 1 creature bothers with abilities, and that's as much removal as we need, Ensnaring Bridge will do the rest.
The complete lack of non-targeted removal except for Raven's Crime (that card is AWESOME in this deck) is because we NEED information like hell, and constantly having opponent's hand under sight is too much to give up, even to cards like Wrench Mind or Blackmail.
Never had regrets on that choice.
Sideboard is pretty self explanatory, even though it's still under construction.
Leylines are the best part of it so far, very often they just win the games for you.
I did deep (practical and not theorical) study on the perfect number of discards other than Lili in the deck, and whenever I go under <16, it's a disaster. With >=18, we have lots of dead draws after turn 4.
I'll try to stop writing now, but if you have questions, I have reasoning behind every single thing and will try to explain. [I also have a written log of all the recent games and changes to deck since I took it seriously like one of my mains]
Oh and I also tried Red, Green, and White splash for various reasons, and despite being good, yet again consistency for our main core cards is THE MOST important thing for constant and reliable wins vs any deck, and a not perfect and invulnerable mana base is enemy number one.
This deck is THE identity (and, therefore, cruelty) of Black in MTG, so any step we take away from the color, is a step away from our main target.
Oh no don't worry about that.
I think it's natural to hear and it's fine, we are all used to live streaming now.
I was talking about the other ones, not the live ones
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Enough to not consider the disadvantages and the fact that if we don't have it in the starting hand we are without side and dead cards?
Genuine question, I'm not sarcastic.
I love the efficiency of Leyline and always used it myself, but just because I had backup plans to cast it too.
[I still hate the concept of leylines as I don't agree in the existence of uncounterable cards that can kill an entire deck just because it tries to be alternative]
Despite always being a lurker I always followed your deck even before it was a primer and I'm a huge fan of it. [in fact I actually stumbled upon it because I made a home-brew time ago myself and searching for suggestion on MTGS I actually found that you made it already and it was almost identical! xD]
The fact you do videos like these puts the primer ahead of I believe any other primer around here.
The recorded videos are nice for the extensive explanation, and the only critique to it is that maybe you should plan ahead on what to say (more or less) because like this there are many dead moments or many moments in which you take forever to say something very simple
The live videos eliminate this problem obviously and are more exciting to follow, without losing much [but I already commented in detail on YouTube to which you answered me as well].
Another thing maybe is you could add the decklist you used in the video in the video's description (as well as some other key information).
Also, to add to the primer, you could do like you can see in some other primers a Match Up list with chances of winning/losing (more importantly the key cards to keep in mind etc etc) and the SB switch you do.
Keep up the good work!
Thx for the answer <3
I'm trying to replace 4 Grafdigger's Cage (Raven is a key in the deck) with 2 Torpor Orb and 2 Pithing Needle.
The hope is to make the SB more versatile, keep the Raven, but still hate Pod in the same way [we still have 4 Leyline of the Void in case we need GY hate].
I'll see also if 3 Needle and 1 Orb is a better combination, but I know how Orb shuts down completely some decks until they answer so I think I'll keep it at 2.
What are your thoughts?
Also why do you keep Leyline of Sanctity?
If it's vs Burn, wouldn't you prefer Dragon's Claw?
Reasons: they stack, they are actually castable, they can be used vs other red based/splashed decks as a bonus and they are cheap
Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! Thx!
Now that I remember I saw once some dude playing that, cool!
Now I can start putting up a decklist, thx everyone!
I can't find any way to ramp other than Extraplanar Lens with Snow-Covered Islands. For example in my MonoB ramp I use Crypt Ghasts.
Colorless/phyrexian ways to ramp are welcome, even though the plan is to stay away from Tron, I need too many UUUUU and I don't want to be too vulnerable to land hate.
Even very silly ways are welcome, just throw in any card that comes to mind that can ramp for blue. Even stuff like make a green deck to ramp then use this card to transform your green color into U and cast your blue biggies. Oh and I'm aware of Quest for Ula's Temple
Please gief some cards/ideas and I will gief back gratitude in the form of not countering everything you play <3
My vote goes for the Aliens, despite liking the quality of predator art more than the other one, but that is just natural becomes of progress through time.
Artists do get better <3
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Trading Post
Creatures:
4 Spellskite
Spells:
4 Lightning Helix
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Blood Moon
4 Pyroclasm
4 Boros Charm
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Ajani Vengeant
1 Gideon Jura
Lands:
3 Tectonic Edge
3 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Arid Mesa
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Plains
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Rugged Prairie
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Defense Grid
2 Blood Moon
4 Pithing Needle
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Lightning Bolt
Any space for Boros Reckoner?
Its cost is like colorless 3, it survives our Pyroclasms, if they want to take it out with Lightning Bolt or anything of the like they are going to get hurt, which we like since we don't output great damage with this deck, it comes with all the plus of creatures
Can't find a spot however.
However apparently you found a way to counter those nasty burn decks.
Few questions:
Main & SB Related:
Gameplay Related: