How would a cycle of dual lands that just had cycling be received?
Red/Green cycle land comes into play tapped. T: Add R or G to your mana pool.
Cycling (Discard this card: draw a card.)
Would those lands be considered better or worse than the scry lands, in general.
Those lands would be pretty solid overall, probably stronger (in their own way) than checklands. Control absolutely loves them. The main issue that stands out to me is that they could very easily demand a Life from the Loam Modern ban.
So for a while not very long ago, both Bolt and Helix were in late development and got art commissions. We could be seeing a standard with both legal if R&D had pulled the trigger. I understand why they didn't, but it would be hilarious if that had happened.
Yes, permanents and spells you own disappear. But if you control permanents that another player owns, they revert to their owner. Likewise, if you own permanents that other players control, they vanish when you lose. Leads to some awkward politics at times.
This may be the Greek mythos coming through, but it seems like all the gods except Erebos have red-leaning personalities, kinda like the majority of Olympians (honestly, Zeus is more red than white). I guess the Heliod-as-Zeus rather than Red Zeus kinda kills my faint hope (insane dream?) that Lightning Bolt might be in this set, but oh well. Also, chill black is something that really hasn't been done before; green and blue often kinda don't care, but black is usually pretty strong-willed. Should be interesting. Wherever the conflict in this block is going to come from, it doesn't look like it's going to be Erebos. Also, I love the trickle-down of the Nyx art effect (can you imagine how much a foil set will end up being?) and overall pretty much everything looks just spectacular. Also liking the hints at a secondary pantheon. I love where this is going!
It's a terrible idea if that's the case. I know Control Magic isn't exactly in black's color pie, but you don't have to be a genius to see why using two cards for one effect is a bad idea.
Well, just because it's on a single card doesn't mean it's a one-card effect. You could make the case that Control Magic-type effects are an auto-2-for-1, as they count both for removal and +1 creature, each of which are full-card effects. In that light, Doom Blade + Grim Return is worse than a single card that does the same thing (hello, Enslave) but they still cannot be made out to be card disadvantage.
Yes, it's probably next year's version of Planechase/Archenemy. Yadda yadda thread closed.
But what if it isn't?
Time Spiral indicates that they can still start a block with a generic name, especially with a return destination. Someone (I think MaRo but don't quote me) has confirmed that the current story arc, i.e. the Apocalypse of Bolas, wraps up in 2017, four blocks from now. Bolas has been absent since m13 and chronology indicates he's a big player in next year's block. What if "Conspiracy" is the first set in the multiplanar Infinite Consortium Block?
Storyline: dissension in the ranks. Bolas has a lot of scoundrels under his employ, and some (coughcoughTezzeret) are notoriously unhappy with their treatment. Conspiracy touches a wide variety of planes the Consortium has influenced, including Rav, NPH, Zendikar, Dominaria, Alara. The theme is Planeswalker Block. Chandra-Ramaz is a theme, as is Tezzeret launching some kind of Phyrexian coup against Bolas. Probably Ajani involved as well. This could be like a Nemesis block, the setup to the final showdown, ending on a major cliffhanger (freed Eldrazi? Phyrexians on Rav/Dominaria/Alara?) All in all, Conspiracy block could be amazing.
Just an idea to contrast the last few pages of the thread, which have been mostly "yup, summer set" over and over. I'm not saying it's likely....
It's funny. I still remember seeing the Mirage lands for the first time and thinking, oh my god these are amazing! You would think that Wizards couldn't keep outdoing themselves, but I find myself still in awe with every new set.
To be fair, the Mirage lands are pretty awesome too, even by today's standards. Gotta love zebras.
-If you are griping about how NWO Magic is teh suxz, complaining about the end of creativity, saying "I'm reconsidering giving them my money", then FREAKING DO IT ALREADY. I AM SICK AND TIRED OF THE WHINERS ON THIS FORUM.
STOP BEING ATTENTION WHORES!!!!!
The solution is quite simple. If you want to complain about quitting the game, ACTUALLY QUIT INSTEAD. Don't insult my intelligence by comparing people who like the current state of Magic to ignorant 12-year-olds. Don't circlejerk for 70 pages about how Magic is ruined.
JUST.
FREAKING.
LEAVE!
I am vaguely disappointed with the direction of the new slivers. I understand the mechanic change, specifically because M14 draft would have been insanity without it. I'm not a fan of the art. Wizards could have done better. That said, I do not feel personally betrayed, nor am I angry at them.
I am angry with the insufferable stuck-up snobs on this forum who insist that every set release should be tailored specifically to them. These are the people who have put up a "This Set Sucks" thread for all but three Magic expansions since Kamigawa block. The people who look down upon stupid creatures and stupid aggro players and the mindless drudgery of the central mechanic in the game. People who think Stasis is a perfectly fair card that makes the game better for everyone. People who are somehow never satisfied yet keep coming back for more. That's not a hobby you enjoy; that's a psychological problem. Somebody earlier in the thread suggested bombarding Wizards with what (knowing you people) will amount to be hate mail regarding these slivers, asking them to get it right. Well, tell me then:
What was the last thing that Wizards got right?
Judging from the tone of this site, with comments about how the game's in the ****ter, I would say many of you don't have a single nice thing to say about the current state of Magic. In the middle of arguably the best Standard season ever, where they finally fixed the power-balance issues, put fairly minimal powercreep, loaded down the format with alternate win-cons, and submitted a Return to Ravnica block that, if you take off the nostalgia-tinted glasses, was better than the original, following on the heels of the best-designed block Magic has ever had in Innistrad. They gave you Modern Masters--a cube draft! in booster packs! They gave you Theros, easily the most "epic" setting for a Magic expansion since Invasion block. And still it's not enough. The successes are taken for granted, and the failures are all that matters.
I'm not expecting too much rarity creep, as the mythic slots are scarce and, with the exceptions of Bob and Goyf, will probably be used to showcase new arts for "mythic worthy" cards from older sets (i.e. symmetrizing the Swords cycle). I expect Kitchen Finks at uncommon, Thoughtseize at rare, nothing truly obnoxious. I'm willing to trust that Wizards put some serious thought into this.
Regardless of whether I'm right, I'm looking forward to it. Hasta la Vegas, Baby!
EDIT: overlooked Dread Return being an uncommon, it will probably stay there. ALSO, overlooked it being banned. Oh well.
Well, MegaMorphling is a near-certain control finisher. Blood Baron is a monster in midrange, immune to most removal and capable of outracing Obzedat, Thragtusk, and every other threat in standard. Exava will be the new Hellrider come rotation. Ral Zarek is an absolute toolbox who fits fairly well into either midrange or control shells running those colors. Voice of Resurgence provides a ton of pressure for aggro; he's no $35 chase mythic, but he's potentially better than Champion of the Parish, which is no laughing matter. Plasm Capture is a wait-and-see; the fact is, Mana Drain is a really powerful effect and someone is going to find a way to make it hurt. Zhur-Taa Shaman is a pressure-applying mana dude that can swing for 2 or ping every turn, and he makes it far easier to reliably get the casting trigger for Rakdos LOR. Renounce the guilds is another piece in the puzzle of a control removal suite. Possibility Storm is an underrated control hoser that completely destroys X-spells and counters and makes removal sketchy at best. Advent of the Wurm is ridiculously efficient even without flash. Council of the Absolute is an enigma card that could really break a control mirror. Deadbridge Chant is a better Staff of Nin for BG decks. Drown in Filth is a great removal spell for reanimator. Gaze of Granite is a nonwhite board wipe that can be tweaked to only hit your opponent. Lavinia is capable of stopping an aggro rush in its tracks, and can't be killed by any of the removal in Naya or Gruul, short of a bloodrush onto a nonred creature. Master of Cruelties has one of the most powerful effects that has ever been printed on a creature. Obzedat's Aid is an effect that has never seen print before, and could very well be incredibly powerful. For Esper, Reap Intellect is an in-color Rakdos' Return on crack. Ruric Thar is incredibly difficult to deal with profitably. Sire of Insanity says to control, "kill me instantly or lose". Viashino Firstblade is a hasty 4/4 for 3, at least on the first turn, which puts it among the best red three-drops that aren't Minotaur Wizards. Warleader's Helix may not be the real Helix, but it is still not bad in a low-removal format. Warped Physique is probably the best kill spell that Esper has in Standard. For those playing the colors, Woodlot Crawler is a strong sideboard option. Beck is modern playable, no questions asked. Armed//Dangerous enables an aggro alpha strike. Catch is Zealous Conscripts on the cheap, and is constructed worthy. Far//Away is one of the most versatile kill cards available; ditto for Turn//Burn. Both could easily see Standard. Wear//Tear is one of the most versatile sideboard cards for RW, and can easily become a two-for-one.
I don't guarantee that all of these cards will see constructed play; if I had to guess, I would say about half if not a bit more than that. However, there are plenty of playable cards in DGM.
@The Last Storm Crow: "The only sets to not have such a thread on this forum were Ravnica, Saviors, and M11, if my memory serves."
Saviors? As in, Saviors of Kamigawa?? As in, The Worst Set Since Prophecy???
By the way, I like DGM a lot better than GTC.
It might not have been Saviors, but I know it was one of the sets in the Kamigawa block.
I'm not sure how I missed this (no one else seems surprised so I'm guessing it was something everyone figured out earlier), but I'm disappointed to not see a second planeswalker in the set. Just one is pretty lame, especially given a set with so many color combos it sucks to have only one of the guilds get a new walker. Idk, it just feels weird to only have one after having two a set for so long.
Small expansions generally tend to have only one Walker. Dark Ascension had Sorin, New Phyrexia had Karn, Besieged had Tezzeret, etc. It's only because there have been so few small expansions lately that this seems weird.
Yes, the Champions got kinda screwed up. Yes, there is a bit too much going on in this set, and not quite enough room for it. Yes, the split cards are generally not constructed playable. I agree, there is plenty of limited fodder, and plenty of cards that are even bad in limited. Hell, Goblin Test Pilot is very likely the single worst card in the Modern format.
So what?
I have been on this site for every preview season since Avacyn Restored, and the unfailing negativity about Every Little Thing is just amazing to me. I recall the "Gatecrash Sucks" thread getting derailed by a guy who didn't say anything of his own, but posted a link to every single "Set X Sucks" thread since Kamigawa. The only sets to not have such a thread on this forum were Ravnica, Saviors, and M11, if my memory serves. Thus, a large portion of this forum considers 90% (27 of the last 30) expert expansions of Magic to be junk. If that's the way you feel, I get it. The game was different back then, there wasn't this "mindless aggro" thing going on (by the way, how about Sligh? Wild Mongrel? Hell, even Psychatog required a creature turning sideways to win.) I am the sort of person you look down upon, one who is perfectly content with creature combat, one who does not enjoy locking his opponents out of the game. I admit that I am new, and I will suggest that this present Standard that so many of you despise is perhaps the greatest in the modern era--at least since Old Rav. I am glad that I am capable of building, completely on my own, a homebrew deck that is competitive on the FNM level and doesn't auto scoop to the people with, for instance, four mainboarded Mind Sculptors. I am happy for the fact that there is not One Deck to Rule them All. I enjoy it, because I enjoy getting to combine Rhox Faithmender with Wolfir Silverheart and Chalice of Life without getting laughed out the building.
You think this set is junk. Okay. You said that about Gatecrash too. Let's see what happened.
-I remember a strong collective "meh" about Burning Tree Emmissary. After all, aggro "wasn't a thing" at the time.
-No reaction whatsoever on Boros Reckoner. The damn thing went for $5 at release day.
-The Aristocrats, one of the most innovative and all-around clever tournament winning decks of recent memory, used largely Gatecrash cards (and Falkenrath, which people weren't playing because it "didn't have a deck") to stomp its way to a GP championship.
Perhaps you are right and Gatecrash and Dragon's Maze are bad. Might I ask what sets you consider to be good? I am sure that they all had their detractors as well. Please kindly consider the fact that you do not know what the interactions of these new cards will be. After all, Tarmogoyf was $.50 for a solid stretch following its release. Who saw Delver of Secrets coming? Squadron Hawk? Even R&D had no clue what Jitte and Skullclamp would do, and they playtested the damn things for several months.
You keep on calling this set bad. I will be busy combining Possibility Storm, Master of Cruelties, Ruric Thar, and Sire of Insanity to see if I can make control decks cry uncle. It might work, it might not, but these are fun cards if nothing else and I want to give it a shot.
Think this set is bad? Give Blood Baron a shot and see how he handles Obzedat. Top your curve with Exava and give your unleashed minions a whirl. Combo off with a Beck and some Progenitor shenanigans. Steal someone's win with a Plasm Capture. Use Zhur-Taa Druid to get your opponents very personal with a turn-four Rancored Rakdos. Drop Council of the Absolute naming Revelation and enjoy a well-earned maniacal cackle. Restorate Lavinia to ruin some Blitz player's day. Find out what Ral Zarek's +1 can really do. Or, if you like mindless aggro, make everyone hate you and your Little Voice of Resurgence that Could.
Seriously. Chill out, relax, and enjoy the set. There are a lot of things in here that Wizards has NEVER done before, and a lot that have been proven very strong in the past. Just try it. You might even like it. I know most of this forum disliked Innistrad when it was coming out, that set that is now practically a gold standard of R&D Getting It Right.
And if you still find yourself disliking 90% of all Magic expansions, I would suggest you pack up, leave this forum, and find a different game that you actually want to play.
This thing makes Esper cry. The boardwipes, D-Spheres, walkers, and Drownyards are mostly still there, but virtually everything else in that deck is instants. Revelations become dead weight, counterspells are a liability (and Syncopate just becomes useless), kill spells are wildly unpredictable, Restoflickers no longer happen on demand, basically everything malfunctions wildly. Basically, the opposing midrange or aggro deck needs to be able to win before turn 15 with a random gaggle of creatures against a guy who can basically only play boardwipes to any real effect. Seems like nuts, especially if you can somehow get a Sire of Insanity down.
Edit: I didn't say "basically" nearly enough there.
This guy is good. Is he Hellrider? No. But he does basically say that Batallion=You Win, and he is very difficult to remove. Sometimes good design is expressed in simple badassedry. He is designed far better than several other champions, at least, and anyone who thinks this is not Standard playable is kidding himself.
Those lands would be pretty solid overall, probably stronger (in their own way) than checklands. Control absolutely loves them. The main issue that stands out to me is that they could very easily demand a Life from the Loam Modern ban.
Well, just because it's on a single card doesn't mean it's a one-card effect. You could make the case that Control Magic-type effects are an auto-2-for-1, as they count both for removal and +1 creature, each of which are full-card effects. In that light, Doom Blade + Grim Return is worse than a single card that does the same thing (hello, Enslave) but they still cannot be made out to be card disadvantage.
But what if it isn't?
Time Spiral indicates that they can still start a block with a generic name, especially with a return destination. Someone (I think MaRo but don't quote me) has confirmed that the current story arc, i.e. the Apocalypse of Bolas, wraps up in 2017, four blocks from now. Bolas has been absent since m13 and chronology indicates he's a big player in next year's block. What if "Conspiracy" is the first set in the multiplanar Infinite Consortium Block?
Storyline: dissension in the ranks. Bolas has a lot of scoundrels under his employ, and some (coughcoughTezzeret) are notoriously unhappy with their treatment. Conspiracy touches a wide variety of planes the Consortium has influenced, including Rav, NPH, Zendikar, Dominaria, Alara. The theme is Planeswalker Block. Chandra-Ramaz is a theme, as is Tezzeret launching some kind of Phyrexian coup against Bolas. Probably Ajani involved as well. This could be like a Nemesis block, the setup to the final showdown, ending on a major cliffhanger (freed Eldrazi? Phyrexians on Rav/Dominaria/Alara?) All in all, Conspiracy block could be amazing.
Just an idea to contrast the last few pages of the thread, which have been mostly "yup, summer set" over and over. I'm not saying it's likely....
BUT WHAT IF IT IS
To be fair, the Mirage lands are pretty awesome too, even by today's standards. Gotta love zebras.
Seriously, guys, get over yourselves.
-If you are griping about how NWO Magic is teh suxz, complaining about the end of creativity, saying "I'm reconsidering giving them my money", then FREAKING DO IT ALREADY. I AM SICK AND TIRED OF THE WHINERS ON THIS FORUM.
STOP BEING ATTENTION WHORES!!!!!
The solution is quite simple. If you want to complain about quitting the game, ACTUALLY QUIT INSTEAD. Don't insult my intelligence by comparing people who like the current state of Magic to ignorant 12-year-olds. Don't circlejerk for 70 pages about how Magic is ruined.
JUST.
FREAKING.
LEAVE!
I am vaguely disappointed with the direction of the new slivers. I understand the mechanic change, specifically because M14 draft would have been insanity without it. I'm not a fan of the art. Wizards could have done better. That said, I do not feel personally betrayed, nor am I angry at them.
I am angry with the insufferable stuck-up snobs on this forum who insist that every set release should be tailored specifically to them. These are the people who have put up a "This Set Sucks" thread for all but three Magic expansions since Kamigawa block. The people who look down upon stupid creatures and stupid aggro players and the mindless drudgery of the central mechanic in the game. People who think Stasis is a perfectly fair card that makes the game better for everyone. People who are somehow never satisfied yet keep coming back for more. That's not a hobby you enjoy; that's a psychological problem. Somebody earlier in the thread suggested bombarding Wizards with what (knowing you people) will amount to be hate mail regarding these slivers, asking them to get it right. Well, tell me then:
What was the last thing that Wizards got right?
Judging from the tone of this site, with comments about how the game's in the ****ter, I would say many of you don't have a single nice thing to say about the current state of Magic. In the middle of arguably the best Standard season ever, where they finally fixed the power-balance issues, put fairly minimal powercreep, loaded down the format with alternate win-cons, and submitted a Return to Ravnica block that, if you take off the nostalgia-tinted glasses, was better than the original, following on the heels of the best-designed block Magic has ever had in Innistrad. They gave you Modern Masters--a cube draft! in booster packs! They gave you Theros, easily the most "epic" setting for a Magic expansion since Invasion block. And still it's not enough. The successes are taken for granted, and the failures are all that matters.
Grow the **** up.
Tarmogoyf
Dark Confidant
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Sword of Light and Shadow
Sword of Fire and Ice
Progenitus
Beyond that, it becomes a matter of plugging holes. These cards look like the best fits for the remaining slots:
Kokusho, the Evening Star (black #2, could also be Damnation)
Dragonstorm (red #2, potentially Akroma, Angel of Fury)
AEther Vial and Knight of the Reliquary (remaining two "other" slots, although I could see Arcbound Ravager or maybe Zur the Enchanter or Rafiq of the Many for another gold legend, or Ajani Vengeant or Sarkhan Vol for more Planeswalkers)
Akroma, Angel of Wrath (white #2, few other options are obvious as I'm not honestly expecting two white 'walkers)
Tezzeret the Seeker and Vendilion Clique (blue slots; other potentials are Meloku the Clouded Mirror, Cryptic Command, or Master Transmuter although Tezzy and Vendi seem most likely)
Garruk Wildspeaker (green #2--there aren't too many great options, but I'm still not expecting to see Doubling Season at more than rare)
I'm expecting Shadowmoor/Eventide duals at rare (Graven Cairns etc.) as well as Mutavault, Reflecting Pool, Grove of the Burnwillows, Horizon Canopy, and Dark Depths; perhaps not all of these, but a good number.
Legacy-playable cards that don't see Modern, as well as casual and EDH all-stars, are likely in, i.e. Dread Return, Goblin Charbelcher, Bridge from Below, Mangara of Corondor, Gaddock Teeg, Doran, the Siege Tower, Rhys the Redeemed, Sliver Legion, and Memnarch.
I'm not expecting too much rarity creep, as the mythic slots are scarce and, with the exceptions of Bob and Goyf, will probably be used to showcase new arts for "mythic worthy" cards from older sets (i.e. symmetrizing the Swords cycle). I expect Kitchen Finks at uncommon, Thoughtseize at rare, nothing truly obnoxious. I'm willing to trust that Wizards put some serious thought into this.
Regardless of whether I'm right, I'm looking forward to it. Hasta la Vegas, Baby!
EDIT: overlooked Dread Return being an uncommon, it will probably stay there. ALSO, overlooked it being banned. Oh well.
I don't guarantee that all of these cards will see constructed play; if I had to guess, I would say about half if not a bit more than that. However, there are plenty of playable cards in DGM.
It might not have been Saviors, but I know it was one of the sets in the Kamigawa block.
Small expansions generally tend to have only one Walker. Dark Ascension had Sorin, New Phyrexia had Karn, Besieged had Tezzeret, etc. It's only because there have been so few small expansions lately that this seems weird.
So what?
I have been on this site for every preview season since Avacyn Restored, and the unfailing negativity about Every Little Thing is just amazing to me. I recall the "Gatecrash Sucks" thread getting derailed by a guy who didn't say anything of his own, but posted a link to every single "Set X Sucks" thread since Kamigawa. The only sets to not have such a thread on this forum were Ravnica, Saviors, and M11, if my memory serves. Thus, a large portion of this forum considers 90% (27 of the last 30) expert expansions of Magic to be junk. If that's the way you feel, I get it. The game was different back then, there wasn't this "mindless aggro" thing going on (by the way, how about Sligh? Wild Mongrel? Hell, even Psychatog required a creature turning sideways to win.) I am the sort of person you look down upon, one who is perfectly content with creature combat, one who does not enjoy locking his opponents out of the game. I admit that I am new, and I will suggest that this present Standard that so many of you despise is perhaps the greatest in the modern era--at least since Old Rav. I am glad that I am capable of building, completely on my own, a homebrew deck that is competitive on the FNM level and doesn't auto scoop to the people with, for instance, four mainboarded Mind Sculptors. I am happy for the fact that there is not One Deck to Rule them All. I enjoy it, because I enjoy getting to combine Rhox Faithmender with Wolfir Silverheart and Chalice of Life without getting laughed out the building.
You think this set is junk. Okay. You said that about Gatecrash too. Let's see what happened.
-I remember a strong collective "meh" about Burning Tree Emmissary. After all, aggro "wasn't a thing" at the time.
-No reaction whatsoever on Boros Reckoner. The damn thing went for $5 at release day.
-The Aristocrats, one of the most innovative and all-around clever tournament winning decks of recent memory, used largely Gatecrash cards (and Falkenrath, which people weren't playing because it "didn't have a deck") to stomp its way to a GP championship.
Perhaps you are right and Gatecrash and Dragon's Maze are bad. Might I ask what sets you consider to be good? I am sure that they all had their detractors as well. Please kindly consider the fact that you do not know what the interactions of these new cards will be. After all, Tarmogoyf was $.50 for a solid stretch following its release. Who saw Delver of Secrets coming? Squadron Hawk? Even R&D had no clue what Jitte and Skullclamp would do, and they playtested the damn things for several months.
You keep on calling this set bad. I will be busy combining Possibility Storm, Master of Cruelties, Ruric Thar, and Sire of Insanity to see if I can make control decks cry uncle. It might work, it might not, but these are fun cards if nothing else and I want to give it a shot.
Think this set is bad? Give Blood Baron a shot and see how he handles Obzedat. Top your curve with Exava and give your unleashed minions a whirl. Combo off with a Beck and some Progenitor shenanigans. Steal someone's win with a Plasm Capture. Use Zhur-Taa Druid to get your opponents very personal with a turn-four Rancored Rakdos. Drop Council of the Absolute naming Revelation and enjoy a well-earned maniacal cackle. Restorate Lavinia to ruin some Blitz player's day. Find out what Ral Zarek's +1 can really do. Or, if you like mindless aggro, make everyone hate you and your Little Voice of Resurgence that Could.
Seriously. Chill out, relax, and enjoy the set. There are a lot of things in here that Wizards has NEVER done before, and a lot that have been proven very strong in the past. Just try it. You might even like it. I know most of this forum disliked Innistrad when it was coming out, that set that is now practically a gold standard of R&D Getting It Right.
And if you still find yourself disliking 90% of all Magic expansions, I would suggest you pack up, leave this forum, and find a different game that you actually want to play.
Edit: I didn't say "basically" nearly enough there.