Bioshift seems like a fantastic example of a do-nothing card. So you moved some counters... your overall power/toughness of the board has changed by nothing. Being able to target two things is cool and all, but I feel like you'd be better off using Triton Tactics to get the christmasland 2-for-1 during combat, or just using Warrior's Lesson to draw two cards. Those both gives actual effects besides trigger heroic. Bioshift is just horrible, and is the closest to a do-nothing card as you can get.
Why would I want to use this deck over a more established aggro deck, like GW or Mono-Blue Devotion? Is it more resilient? Explosive? Consistent? Is it well-positioned in the metagame? What are the matchups like? Why would I want to take this deck to a tournament over another archetype? Sell me on this deck. Make me want to grind with it at FNM, or bring it to an open. Otherwise it doesn't belong in the competitive sub.
I agree with all of this and this is the comment on this thread that seems to belong in the Competitive Forum. Well said on all counts, Barrel Roll.
Ok, first of all there are some things that have been said here which will never be true in even a semi-competitive FNM. Let's do a few quick ones...
* Bioshift- Bad. There are so many wonderful ways we can spend our mana more reliably. Yes, it CAN work. I'd even like it to. But how reliable is this in our meta? How often does it help you win if you arent already winning? This is a win more card at best.
* Artisan of forms- A card that is totally worthless by itself and against a control opponent. Bulky bulk rare is bulk. Fun idea for casual though!
*Take- This card requires 3 counters on a creature in order to be better than divination... and then it makes your guy small again. This does not even boarder on the country adjacent to Competitive-ania. It stings me a bit that it even got mentioned without being laughed at.
* Most of you are using too many enablers and not enough creatures. It will result in far less consistent usable draws.
With the addition of BNG many things have changed.
*We now have up to 12 dual lands to use (I wouldn't use more than 6 Temples/Guild Gates). There's no longer any reason to run islands. This makes the mana that much easier to work with.
I'm pondering assembling my own primer for a competitive W/U Heroic deck that's updated with BNG. My take on the deck is different enough from what is in this thread that it may well be justified.
WW has one big edge over the other aggro decks is resilience. Packing Brave the Elements/boros charm, and possibly rootborn defenses in the board, is the advantage we have IF our play is tight. Yes, if you tap out on all of your turns Control will drop a sweeper on your face and it will connect. However, if they are packing Anger of the Gods and you leave up your Brave mana, the game gets interesting.
Sys- Your list has no way of beating control. You need to make it faster. Cut silly things like Sphynx's Rev, Jace, Omenspeaker, the temples(Why are those in there??????? If you say "for the scry", I may well tear up a little bit). Add 2 more soldier of the pantheon and some lyev skyknight.
There's more that needs changing, but those are the major things.
Cut all copies of Inaction Injunction and Voyage's End. These cards are not good. This is the Competitive forum and those are not cards destined for competitive play.
I'd maindeck 1 more Brave the Elements. If you want a upgrade to your Voyage's end, try Azorius Charm. The lifelink can be randomly game-changing vs other aggro. Otherwise, fill those newly empty slots with a high creature density. Maindecking 2 Heliod would be a great place to start.
* Nykthos is legendary. Do NOT run 4. 2 is correct.
* Soul Tithe is not good or efficient. Cut it for basically anything else. I'd say 4 fiendslayer paladin
* Sundering Growth is a sideboard card, if anything.
* Run a 4th Brave the Elements. It's the best card in most white decks.
* add one soldier of the pantheon and remove between 1 and 4 Hopeful Eidolon
* your curve is far too high for 22 lands. i'd say easily 23 but likely 24.
* imposing sovereign over blind obedience.
* Negate does not counter Supreme Verdict as Supreme Verdict cannot be countered.
All this being said, enchantment themes like this aren't going to slam dunk any FNMs. Best of luck, but know you are going uphill.
Imposing Sovereign is the proper alternative to Daring Skyjek. 1 less power, yes. However, the ability to slow down their board presence makes up for it quickly.
Thanks. Been fooling around with the list a bit and I think I want a set of Ember Swallowers in there too. Probably by moving Mortars +1 to the board.
Also, 1x Nykthos.
Oh, and a few Anger. I think I could easily play around my own Anger with so many 4+ Toughness dudes.
Hrm... why the full set of Ember Swallowers?
1 Nykthos seems solid.
I very much like the idea of Anger of the Gods in there. With a Reckoner out, it's a bonus 3 to their face or the extra boost you needed to kill an annoying Loxodon Smiter or some such.
And before anyone dismissed Weird out-of-hand, it does exactly what you want it to do in this deck:
Walls Aggro
Can break through opponent's walls
Trades up
Survives Anger
Is a legitimate later-game threat
I think anyone who test is will find it a better alternative to Ash Zealot in that slot against everything that isn't near-creatureless Control.
This list is more focused and less cute than the OP's. It has an effective and attainable plan and provides its own way of getting there. It also isn't weighed down by it's top end.
Loving the Warleader's Helix, Chandra's Phoenix, and also the Frostburn Weirds over Ash Zealot. The list could be a contender.
I honestly sort of feel there isn't a way for slivers to beat all those top tier decks consistently. As you said, I feel being 2 colors is the only thing that lets your version come close. Your best bet is likely to race hexproof and hope for heart-of-the-cards worthy top decks off of path. If I think up any sideboard gems I'll post them.
I'm just worried this will turn out to be Bad Gruul.
As a concept, Ghor-Clan Rampager is Domri friendly, a good combat trick, and you can hardcast in a pinch. I havent pondered if it's actually viable for you.
Callo- Wild Guess is unplayable in limited, let alone standard. It's honestly gut-bustingly awful.
Legions initiative is another highly questionable choice. As is Gruul Warchant. And yes, the popular wisdom is correct, signal the clans is not destined for competitive play. Domri should be at least a 2-of and is far better than Signal. He is also currently the only spot removal in your deck
I honestly don't see how that would stand up to the decks that are coming to define this format.
Here's a short list of examples off the top of my head.
*How do you address/work around Boros Reckoner if you dont draw (and keep in play) a Galerider AND a Cavern/Manaweft?
You can't.
* How do you beat Jund? Slivers cannot exist as a competitive force in a format where a removal heavy deck like Jund owns so much real estate. All it takes is some instant speed removal and any combat can go the complete opposite direction.
* You also have no meaningful way of reliably stopping the highly explosive elf deck that's been making appearances.
I'd like us all to take moment to thank the OP on making the most consistently logical, accurate, and competitive primer I've seen on these forums in a good long while. Usually it's people telling me mono white is "totally viable". Thank you for making me not scratch my eyes out by abusing a topic I care about and have some expertise. I doubt the poor things could withstand another vigorous gouging.
Now some thoughts
I am leaning towards a human Boros with my Caverns in the SB. Reckoner has too much power to leave him out when just the threat of Cavern seems to have scared the counters out of my meta. Sadly, that magnificent reckoning jerk also punishes running slayer's stronghold as a land and not a reusable spell. Looks like I'll be at 24.
I'll be looking to make Blind Obedience work. It'll end up SB if nothing else.
2. I don't think you know what reach is if you think WW has it.
I also don't see any real reason to go Mono W when splashing any other color would bring something to the table and take almost nothing away from your consistency.
Well... I disagree with about 86% of that. But here's the short list
Phase 1
Rancor the best single card in W/g which doesn't rhyme with "pilverblade saladin". It does everything an aggro deck could realistically hope for for 1 mana and THEN gives you some more because it's a bro. You may have heard the phrase "card advantage". This may as well define it. If you are direly paniced about Rancor's target being speared you may feel free to sb it out if you feel that is.... advisable. Summed up: Rancor is an unquestioned 4-Of.
Gavony Township is often used but not required in the strictest sense. I love it. Mana dumps using Avacyn's Pilgrim as quite charming. Btw... Pilgrim ramp is a major asset.
Ok. Major point here. The fact that you MAY draw 2 of 4 sunpetal/glacials in your opening hand is not a reason to go mono. That isn't math. If you draw literally any other combo of lands your opponent is going to need answers fast. And at 23 lands, that will be the overwhelming majority of the time.
Mayor is great before and post flip and has silly synergy with anything else you could be doing outside of a War Falcon. He's also MUCH better late game than Champion of the Parish etc.
If W/g weren't "definitely better" than mono white it wouldnt have a half biggillion mtgo/major tourney top cuts to mono white's current zero in this format. Wait.... I take that back. My bad, mate. One top 4'd in the Yukon. It placed 1 above "Dragon Control" and a few ahead of "Mono Green Toolbox". Rough format up there in the Yukon.
Phase 2
Skyknight can lock down Planeswalkers, btw. Maybe 4 arent required, but the card sees as much competitive play as it does in W/u aggro for a reason. I have it on good authority that your attackers making contact with your opponent's life total is favorable. This lil' uncommon gets it done starting from the turn he hits.
Mooreland Haunt is nice but it's not a "reason" to play the deck. Many use it as a One-Of.
Geist works with exalted PERFECTLY actually.....
Phase 3
You will not get more "aggro heavy" than either of these builds. That's why ww mono isn't a force in the meta.
W/g > W/u (from someone who plays W/u as a meta choice)
I agree with all of this and this is the comment on this thread that seems to belong in the Competitive Forum. Well said on all counts, Barrel Roll.
Ok, first of all there are some things that have been said here which will never be true in even a semi-competitive FNM. Let's do a few quick ones...
* Bioshift- Bad. There are so many wonderful ways we can spend our mana more reliably. Yes, it CAN work. I'd even like it to. But how reliable is this in our meta? How often does it help you win if you arent already winning? This is a win more card at best.
* Artisan of forms- A card that is totally worthless by itself and against a control opponent. Bulky bulk rare is bulk. Fun idea for casual though!
*Take- This card requires 3 counters on a creature in order to be better than divination... and then it makes your guy small again. This does not even boarder on the country adjacent to Competitive-ania. It stings me a bit that it even got mentioned without being laughed at.
* Most of you are using too many enablers and not enough creatures. It will result in far less consistent usable draws.
With the addition of BNG many things have changed.
*We now have up to 12 dual lands to use (I wouldn't use more than 6 Temples/Guild Gates). There's no longer any reason to run islands. This makes the mana that much easier to work with.
* We get a ton of super playables. Ephara's Enlightenment is one that stands out.
I'm pondering assembling my own primer for a competitive W/U Heroic deck that's updated with BNG. My take on the deck is different enough from what is in this thread that it may well be justified.
Sys- Your list has no way of beating control. You need to make it faster. Cut silly things like Sphynx's Rev, Jace, Omenspeaker, the temples(Why are those in there??????? If you say "for the scry", I may well tear up a little bit). Add 2 more soldier of the pantheon and some lyev skyknight.
There's more that needs changing, but those are the major things.
I'd maindeck 1 more Brave the Elements. If you want a upgrade to your Voyage's end, try Azorius Charm. The lifelink can be randomly game-changing vs other aggro. Otherwise, fill those newly empty slots with a high creature density. Maindecking 2 Heliod would be a great place to start.
* Soul Tithe is not good or efficient. Cut it for basically anything else. I'd say 4 fiendslayer paladin
* Sundering Growth is a sideboard card, if anything.
* Run a 4th Brave the Elements. It's the best card in most white decks.
* add one soldier of the pantheon and remove between 1 and 4 Hopeful Eidolon
* your curve is far too high for 22 lands. i'd say easily 23 but likely 24.
* imposing sovereign over blind obedience.
* Negate does not counter Supreme Verdict as Supreme Verdict cannot be countered.
All this being said, enchantment themes like this aren't going to slam dunk any FNMs. Best of luck, but know you are going uphill.
Hrm... why the full set of Ember Swallowers?
1 Nykthos seems solid.
I very much like the idea of Anger of the Gods in there. With a Reckoner out, it's a bonus 3 to their face or the extra boost you needed to kill an annoying Loxodon Smiter or some such.
This list is more focused and less cute than the OP's. It has an effective and attainable plan and provides its own way of getting there. It also isn't weighed down by it's top end.
Loving the Warleader's Helix, Chandra's Phoenix, and also the Frostburn Weirds over Ash Zealot. The list could be a contender.
Additionally, I think Favored Hoplite is better than Akroan Crusader.
I'm just worried this will turn out to be Bad Gruul.
As a concept, Ghor-Clan Rampager is Domri friendly, a good combat trick, and you can hardcast in a pinch. I havent pondered if it's actually viable for you.
Wild Guess is unplayable in limited, let alone standard. It's honestly gut-bustingly awful.
Legions initiative is another highly questionable choice. As is Gruul Warchant. And yes, the popular wisdom is correct, signal the clans is not destined for competitive play. Domri should be at least a 2-of and is far better than Signal. He is also currently the only spot removal in your deck
I honestly don't see how that would stand up to the decks that are coming to define this format.
Here's a short list of examples off the top of my head.
*How do you address/work around Boros Reckoner if you dont draw (and keep in play) a Galerider AND a Cavern/Manaweft?
You can't.
* How do you beat Jund? Slivers cannot exist as a competitive force in a format where a removal heavy deck like Jund owns so much real estate. All it takes is some instant speed removal and any combat can go the complete opposite direction.
* You also have no meaningful way of reliably stopping the highly explosive elf deck that's been making appearances.
Again; short version.
Now some thoughts
I am leaning towards a human Boros with my Caverns in the SB. Reckoner has too much power to leave him out when just the threat of Cavern seems to have scared the counters out of my meta. Sadly, that magnificent reckoning jerk also punishes running slayer's stronghold as a land and not a reusable spell. Looks like I'll be at 24.
I'll be looking to make Blind Obedience work. It'll end up SB if nothing else.
Whew... I'm glad some one else is on top of this.
Phase 1
Rancor the best single card in W/g which doesn't rhyme with "pilverblade saladin". It does everything an aggro deck could realistically hope for for 1 mana and THEN gives you some more because it's a bro. You may have heard the phrase "card advantage". This may as well define it. If you are direly paniced about Rancor's target being speared you may feel free to sb it out if you feel that is.... advisable. Summed up: Rancor is an unquestioned 4-Of.
Gavony Township is often used but not required in the strictest sense. I love it. Mana dumps using Avacyn's Pilgrim as quite charming. Btw... Pilgrim ramp is a major asset.
Ok. Major point here. The fact that you MAY draw 2 of 4 sunpetal/glacials in your opening hand is not a reason to go mono. That isn't math. If you draw literally any other combo of lands your opponent is going to need answers fast. And at 23 lands, that will be the overwhelming majority of the time.
Mayor is great before and post flip and has silly synergy with anything else you could be doing outside of a War Falcon. He's also MUCH better late game than Champion of the Parish etc.
If W/g weren't "definitely better" than mono white it wouldnt have a half biggillion mtgo/major tourney top cuts to mono white's current zero in this format. Wait.... I take that back. My bad, mate. One top 4'd in the Yukon. It placed 1 above "Dragon Control" and a few ahead of "Mono Green Toolbox". Rough format up there in the Yukon.
Phase 2
Skyknight can lock down Planeswalkers, btw. Maybe 4 arent required, but the card sees as much competitive play as it does in W/u aggro for a reason. I have it on good authority that your attackers making contact with your opponent's life total is favorable. This lil' uncommon gets it done starting from the turn he hits.
Mooreland Haunt is nice but it's not a "reason" to play the deck. Many use it as a One-Of.
Geist works with exalted PERFECTLY actually.....
Phase 3
You will not get more "aggro heavy" than either of these builds. That's why ww mono isn't a force in the meta.
W/g > W/u (from someone who plays W/u as a meta choice)