About to head to my Game day and seriously considering replacing Seeker with 2 Vaporkins and 2 welkin turn. He just gets out classed so quickly i am genuinely expecting to see about 50% Abzan (it was everywhere last night, draft was FNM but every standard game i saw being played usually had siege rhino's in play). Of course no ill just play the mirror and agro decks all day but thats the risk i suppose!
Right off the bat though this deck doesn't need 22 lands i dont think, 20 should be good. you also need to find pace for stoke the flames at least and perhaps some lightning strikes!
Basically said everything i was going to. That Karsten article is my bible!
Congrats on finishing second ixidor! but as that article points out you dont have enough white or blue sources in the deck, id suggest cutting two temples for two monasteries and adding two flooded strand over the narset and stormbreath main
Not sure im a fan of mindswipe, this deck isn't trying to burn people out so its just a bad counter spell then with random upside. Distainful stroke is probably just better i think. its going to counter a lot of the same things by virtue of swipe only countering things when your opponent taps out/or is close
Put in Deflecting Palm it is an extremely powerful card against aggro
How so? maybe im missing something here buts its a worse fog in a control deck since it only stops one thing, yes it does damage to them but you win by establishing control, not burning them out i would think.
Seriously though, add in some hoarding dragons and soul of new Phrexia and well, theres a deck there. needs a few more cards but chuck in a couple of burn spells and Goblin Kaboomist (LANDMIND TOKENS!!!) and its good!
I think its worth testing for sure, i think that whilst Vindicate being able to destroy lands is obviously very powerful. The versatility of Council's Judgement being an answer to anything will prove more powerful.
The obvious use is destroying TNN etc but even just the ability to kill a creature through a resolved mother of runes is going to be pretty big. Its an out to natural order for Progenitus etc.
Im sure theres a bunch of other things im forgetting, and i may still just be wrong but i certainly think its worth testing.
I think the key to splashing Red is actually not playing anger, as you say the mana is too horrific. The splash is usually best for Keranos and other one casting cost red spells that help deal with problems that regular UW can't. Personally thats Izzet charm as it can counter plasnwalkers early and isnt terrible late game *cough* Syncopate *cough* due to its ability to dig for specific things. Turn/Burn to either kill that Obzedat/Dragon when it comes down or burn a one drop. and then Counterflux from the side in the control mirror.
I also like playing a couple of Ral Zarek's but thats mainly for fun at my LGS since its not that competative and full of white weenie decks so its usually at its worst a 4 mana removal spell that fogs a guy
I had him as a one of initially, liked him and upped it to two. Again i need to clarify this choice by pointing our that players at my LGS are either new/play terrible home brews or a couple of PTQ grinders. I lost in the finals of game day M14 with Angel post, for example. I can safely say, without any arrogance that im the best player at the store for standard and the grand sum of my magic experience is two SCG IQ top 8's.
As my LGS is full of newer players its all just either Monsters/something terrible/white weenie. Because of this Zarek was actually good as in most matches (i think last FNM i played 3 orzhov aggro decks) he came down, killed a guy and then soaked up damage. That was the worst case scenario. However, when i played the control mirror (against straight UW) he provided another threat and tax on his detention spheres. In the control Mirror i like to be proactive (or at least have the ability to do so after board) and having 8 plansewalkers MD (plus keranos) as threats which either have to be Sphere'd or countered lets you be more aggressive in your play. I also really, really cant over state how great Zarek is at sniping a jace that ticked down. His ultimate is also just basically unbeatable in the control mirror too.
Ral's + ability also came up more than expected in the contorl mirror. my opponent would play a detention sphere or divination on 6 mana leaving up dissolve, i could then tap down a land main phase one and then resolve something main phase 2.
Again im not sure if he's actually better than what else you can play in the deck but he certainly gives you very small, but noticable edges in close matches
@Tanro, dont post in the competitive threads if you arent going to actually make an effort to build the deck correctly. Saying you didn't put any effort into the mana base doesn't make you seem carefree and cool, it just makes us not pay any attention to your list and not bother trying to help.
Some notes anyway.
1) You aren't a burn deck, you have 4 burn spells in your deck (plus Keranos). If you stop playing it like a burn deck you will see better results against all the Bant decks you are playing with a lot of lifegain. Elspeth tokens + emblem finish games very, very quickly.
2) Counterflux is great and a huge appeal for splashing the red, however against anything other than control dissolve is a vastly superior card, apart from being easy to cast with your horrific mana base it lets you scry. Play a couple MD if you want and then side the rest.
3) Steam Augury is bad, very, very, very bad. It is a punisher mechanic so you always get what is worse for you. Jace is beyond 10 times the card that SA is. Yes in the control mirror he bites D-Sphere's early but he at least replaced himself and they had to detention sphere him, leaving one less for your Elspeth. Also, he gives you time to find an answer to opposing Elspeths.
4) Niv mizit is fun, and i play one in my deck when i go to FNM, becasue frankly he is cool but i do so knowing its not correct.
5) Your sideboard is all reactive cards (bar two dragons). I think you can afford to be more proactive, the beauty of UWR is that in the control mirror you are able to be much more assertive and tax their counters/spheres.
On another note, what do people think of Ral Zerak, i tried two of him yesturday and was actually happy with how he performed. Against aggro he killed things and against control he killed Jace's and i even ultimated him once, taking two extra turns. I want to avoid being too results oriented thinking here (as my LGS is not very competitive) but i think he may have some place in the deck. Also makes turning Keranos on much easier
From my limited experience with the deck Wasteland is either the best card in the deck, or terrible. the deck isn't Death and Taxes, trying to limit mana. Yes it comes up especially against the BUG decks etc that play no basics but it is less likely to win you games and is more of an insurance policy. I've seen some lists cutting one or two.
Due to this i wouldn't play a bad wasteland and dilute the other parts of the deck to make it work (arbiter). Instead i'd add some basics and make the deck even better against wasteland and just accept that if he plays against depths hes probably just dead, and wont get any free wins
I see what you're saying but Mana Bloom fixing mana is still going to cost 2 for just one time, Font will get the land permanently. Also late in the game, unless you have the Eidolon in play (again, if we're untapping and getting to cast enchantments for free Mana Bloom can probably be any other enchantment at this point, the CA will snowball very quickly) it does literally nothing. At least Font does have other uses, i hate the argument generally but it does thin your deck and the interaction with courser is probably going to come up more than people think.
That being said i could be totally wrong and Bloom is insane. Though i'd argue if we want a late game draw engine that Kruphix's insight is probably still better, as it makes sure we hit relevant spells (unless digging for removal)
I've been tinkering with building a deck like this for fun and then after having read this thread it looks like there might actually be *something* here.
I like idea of Fated Intervention, it seems like its worth considering at least. Having access the that and Boon Satyr at least gives you an angle to beat UW/X control, that and theres obvious bonkers synergy with Giant/Eidolon etc
If people are looking to mana ramp, is Font of Fertility not worth testing? we are doing little to nothing T1 (only thoughtsieze) so the extra mana isnt much of a cost, it also has synergy with Courser being able to shuffle your deck which is not irrelevant.
Mana Bloom, whilst it also has obvious synergy with Eidolon and Giant seems a bit 'too cute' its not a good ramp spell early as it goes away and you have to reinvest it, and if late in the game you're 'going off' with it and Eidolon you got to untap with Eidolon and play an enchantment and start drawing cards. Feels like it would probably 'win more' than actually get you ahead, with virtually any other card in our deck doing the same thing but actually putting something on the board. I think Font is probably better overall.
As my new nickname says my favorite card magic card is Blood Artist, partially because im a relatively new player and the Aristocrats from last standard was the first deck i fell in love with, partially because it was a nightmare for people to play against, but mainly because great art can never be created without great suffering
Right off the bat though this deck doesn't need 22 lands i dont think, 20 should be good. you also need to find pace for stoke the flames at least and perhaps some lightning strikes!
Basically said everything i was going to. That Karsten article is my bible!
Congrats on finishing second ixidor! but as that article points out you dont have enough white or blue sources in the deck, id suggest cutting two temples for two monasteries and adding two flooded strand over the narset and stormbreath main
4 of card draw with delve also seems a little high.
Once thing i want to test in the side is quiet contemplation. it seems like that card could do some serious work against the green devotion decks
How so? maybe im missing something here buts its a worse fog in a control deck since it only stops one thing, yes it does damage to them but you win by establishing control, not burning them out i would think.
Seriously though, add in some hoarding dragons and soul of new Phrexia and well, theres a deck there. needs a few more cards but chuck in a couple of burn spells and Goblin Kaboomist (LANDMIND TOKENS!!!) and its good!
The obvious use is destroying TNN etc but even just the ability to kill a creature through a resolved mother of runes is going to be pretty big. Its an out to natural order for Progenitus etc.
Im sure theres a bunch of other things im forgetting, and i may still just be wrong but i certainly think its worth testing.
I also like playing a couple of Ral Zarek's but thats mainly for fun at my LGS since its not that competative and full of white weenie decks so its usually at its worst a 4 mana removal spell that fogs a guy
I had him as a one of initially, liked him and upped it to two. Again i need to clarify this choice by pointing our that players at my LGS are either new/play terrible home brews or a couple of PTQ grinders. I lost in the finals of game day M14 with Angel post, for example. I can safely say, without any arrogance that im the best player at the store for standard and the grand sum of my magic experience is two SCG IQ top 8's.
As my LGS is full of newer players its all just either Monsters/something terrible/white weenie. Because of this Zarek was actually good as in most matches (i think last FNM i played 3 orzhov aggro decks) he came down, killed a guy and then soaked up damage. That was the worst case scenario. However, when i played the control mirror (against straight UW) he provided another threat and tax on his detention spheres. In the control Mirror i like to be proactive (or at least have the ability to do so after board) and having 8 plansewalkers MD (plus keranos) as threats which either have to be Sphere'd or countered lets you be more aggressive in your play. I also really, really cant over state how great Zarek is at sniping a jace that ticked down. His ultimate is also just basically unbeatable in the control mirror too.
Ral's + ability also came up more than expected in the contorl mirror. my opponent would play a detention sphere or divination on 6 mana leaving up dissolve, i could then tap down a land main phase one and then resolve something main phase 2.
Again im not sure if he's actually better than what else you can play in the deck but he certainly gives you very small, but noticable edges in close matches
Some notes anyway.
1) You aren't a burn deck, you have 4 burn spells in your deck (plus Keranos). If you stop playing it like a burn deck you will see better results against all the Bant decks you are playing with a lot of lifegain. Elspeth tokens + emblem finish games very, very quickly.
2) Counterflux is great and a huge appeal for splashing the red, however against anything other than control dissolve is a vastly superior card, apart from being easy to cast with your horrific mana base it lets you scry. Play a couple MD if you want and then side the rest.
3) Steam Augury is bad, very, very, very bad. It is a punisher mechanic so you always get what is worse for you. Jace is beyond 10 times the card that SA is. Yes in the control mirror he bites D-Sphere's early but he at least replaced himself and they had to detention sphere him, leaving one less for your Elspeth. Also, he gives you time to find an answer to opposing Elspeths.
4) Niv mizit is fun, and i play one in my deck when i go to FNM, becasue frankly he is cool but i do so knowing its not correct.
5) Your sideboard is all reactive cards (bar two dragons). I think you can afford to be more proactive, the beauty of UWR is that in the control mirror you are able to be much more assertive and tax their counters/spheres.
On another note, what do people think of Ral Zerak, i tried two of him yesturday and was actually happy with how he performed. Against aggro he killed things and against control he killed Jace's and i even ultimated him once, taking two extra turns. I want to avoid being too results oriented thinking here (as my LGS is not very competitive) but i think he may have some place in the deck. Also makes turning Keranos on much easier
Due to this i wouldn't play a bad wasteland and dilute the other parts of the deck to make it work (arbiter). Instead i'd add some basics and make the deck even better against wasteland and just accept that if he plays against depths hes probably just dead, and wont get any free wins
That being said i could be totally wrong and Bloom is insane. Though i'd argue if we want a late game draw engine that Kruphix's insight is probably still better, as it makes sure we hit relevant spells (unless digging for removal)
I like idea of Fated Intervention, it seems like its worth considering at least. Having access the that and Boon Satyr at least gives you an angle to beat UW/X control, that and theres obvious bonkers synergy with Giant/Eidolon etc
If people are looking to mana ramp, is Font of Fertility not worth testing? we are doing little to nothing T1 (only thoughtsieze) so the extra mana isnt much of a cost, it also has synergy with Courser being able to shuffle your deck which is not irrelevant.
Mana Bloom, whilst it also has obvious synergy with Eidolon and Giant seems a bit 'too cute' its not a good ramp spell early as it goes away and you have to reinvest it, and if late in the game you're 'going off' with it and Eidolon you got to untap with Eidolon and play an enchantment and start drawing cards. Feels like it would probably 'win more' than actually get you ahead, with virtually any other card in our deck doing the same thing but actually putting something on the board. I think Font is probably better overall.