I ran this list at a local win a box tournament and ended up going 3-1. I was 3-0 against 3 Mono Red decks and was one of 3 undefeated Players at the tournament. Round four comes around and I was the lucky one who got paired down and had to face the fourth mono red deck of the day (I counted 6 mono red decks at the entire tournament of 20 players). I feel a little unlucky for getting paired down and facing 4 mono red decks. But I thought I had a solid chance, with the coursers, ooze and drown in sorrow backing me up. The match ended up going to game 3, but I ended up losing when 2 demons ended up being the only creatures I saw that game. The opponent ended up at 8 life at the end of the round, but considering it was the boss sligh variant, he had too many creatures and lava spikes to deal with. After that tournament, I'm seriously considering replacing the demons with polukranos. He would have been an absolute bomb against the sea of red decks I faced.
The thing I always ask myself when I compare the two is. Demon doesnt catch me up when im behing, he's just win more when im already ahead. Polukranos is capable of catching me up when im behind, and able to push me further ahead when im ahead. Against elspeth control i want Polukranos, againt aggro I want polukranos, against midrange I want polukranos.
The argument I was making isn't as simple as 'don't play creatures because they die to removal'. Playing fewer creatures, beyond Xenagos' tokens, blanks a lot of removal in mono-black devotion decks. Stretching out their Downfalls with all of the planeswalkers seems like a much better alternative to the tempo loss of losing Polukranos, Stormbreath, or Demon to an Ultimate Price. I played the creature version for months with some success, but the deck doesn't play enough creatures to overcome black's removal like Jund Monsters is capable of doing with Domri and so why not blank it all together and play a more controlling grind? Soul seems like a good way around this, but playing Scavenging Ooze as an eight mana gain six life isn't really where I want to be at anymore. The last month that I had played the deck, or basically since the last Invitational, value creatures were either too slow or simply didn't stay around long enough to close out games. I can't tell you how many times I got to that super grindy moment of double Underworld Connections on my side with the mono-black deck topdecking after I Abrupt Decay-ed their Connections, only to lose to a late game topdecked Pack Rat because my creatures couldn't close the deal or I didn't have the Bile Blight or they got out of Mortars range. So far a strictly Planeswalker with eight creatures has been getting around that issue by being better at the grind and being able to close some games out more quickly honestly.
Jund monsters success was due to the fact it attacked from multiple angels, and could in general keep up with MBD's card engine with domri. Xenagos was a house, and the deck had enough speed to keep MBD on tilt. This deck can do the same thing but with more disruption, and flat out doesnt lose to demon. You're still attacking MBD from multiple angels, same for rev decks. The only thing you're changing is you're adding in more disruption making those value creatures more able to stay on board, and generate more CA for everything you play. Why does Soul of Shandalar beat SBD? Simply due to if i tap out and its downfalled I still have a anytime i want dome you for 3 and most likely take a creature with it. If it doesnt eat removal there is practially no creatures in the format that can contend with it on the battlefield.
The statement of scooze perplexes me as well. The reason scooze has seen so much play is solely due to he's CA and a mana dump and life gain all in 1 single little card. He makes your creature removal package all that more valuable. He just doesnt contend well with himself.
I figured I would post my list I've ran into alot of success with since the release of M15. Its a little different than most lists ive seen listed, so feel free to discuss.
Ive piloted this list in 2 big FNM's, a couple of Saturday Night Magics, and a SCG event at out LGS for a free entry into SCG open Indy. Ive went 7-0-1 in the FMNs, and the SCG trial, and 6-0 in both saturdays. I havent made very many changes to the list due to the success ive had with it. Nissa is a all star, and I've won every game I played her. Garruks a beast if you ever drop him, and yes ive lived the dream of answering an elspeth with a garruk!
What inspired me to make this list is i wanted to take the best of green, and best of mono black and meld it together for a pure value deck. You move away from playing low value cards in place of high impact cards. You have mono blacks control and CA (and yes, pack rat) to smooth out draws, and greens stability, ramp and over all high quality beats. With the inclusion of the walkers we now have late game staying power, and the ability to take control decks by the throat. Mono black, and rev decks have a very tough time dealing with a resolved Nissa, and are constantly put under the gun since you come out faster, and have a higher consistancy rate due to the green splash. A light touch of ramp puts you ahead, and courser keeps you ahead. Forcing Mono black to deal with low value threats to not fall behind, and end up getting thwarted with a real threat.
Any questions feel free to ask, or comment!
Why 4 polukranos? I figured drawing multiples of him would hurt you.
After playign a stretch of Jund monsters, Ive come to learn something about Polukranos. He's a beast of a card, and incurs alot of hate. The reason I feel no harm in jamming 4 into a deck is for several reasons.
1) I always want one
2) He's a house against all aggro decks
3) He dies to nearly all removal in the format
4) You play pack rat, so its not nearly as bad to see extra's when you dont need it.
Thats one of the major reasons I included pack rat into the list. You find sometimes that your hand doesnt mesh well, or you end up with some not so great draws. (Aka mystic off the top on turn 7). Pack rat helped make things alot more consistant, and even if you're dead drawing 1 pack rat can turn everything into live draws.
Another view would be 4 demons instead, or possibly 4 reapers. I've tried both, and in the end Polukranos is the winner in the end. I like him more vs elspeth, I like him more against aggro, and I like him more against devo / midrange decks. Demon keeps you ahead when you're ahead, and never catches you up when behind. Reaper is great against mono black, but average against everything else.
Edit: Side note on Polukranos. I also like to lean more on green to help make Nissa a little better. She is overall the best card in the deck in my honest opinion. Everything else is just gravy over the biscuit.
I really enjoy this list, I feel that this archetype although using a lot of walkers should not forget value creatures.
Value creatures in the Walkers deck beyond the ramp of Caryatid and Courser's filtering ends up having a huge target on its head. Some people might be hesitant to waste removal on a Courser in the first game, but once you start throwing in Scavenging Ooze or Dragon against mono-black they are going to be removed before they can do a thing.
Thats why you play value creatures. You want to ask can this creature generate a very quick clock? Can it take over a game? Do i atleast get some value out of it? If you get 2 out of 3, then you've found a MD worthy creature. Magic is a game of questions and answers. Just because something dies to removal doesnt mean its a bad way of going about making it an inclusion. Polukranos dies to almost all removal, but he's such a house against aggro, control, and MBD that he's still worth including. Facts are facts. In a format filled with thoughtsieze, the best way to play around it is to make everything in your hand worth thoughtseizing.
The list I ran was BG, not Jund but I've built a Jund shell based off my BG list which ill list below. Its pretty much doing the same thing except you have more raw power. The list I chose to run was more consistant, but I feel like the Jund shell is stronger against the meta as a whole since it pairs extreamly well against the Trinity. (For those who dont know, im refering to Mono B, mono U, and Rev decks).
The rant earlier was a comment made about Nissa's playability. Ive played both variants, and she's played the same way. The only drawback, which I stated in a previous comment was that in the Jund shell her ulti is weak. You still have plenty of forest targets for ramp, so her +1's are still very good. Nissa in control type shells lets you expand your board with already in play cards. She generates very nice card advantage, and tremendous value. Not to mention the clock she becomes the moment she hits play. Making pseudo haste 4/4 trample bodies even on a mana flooded board is just bonkers.
Also another note. I know alot of Jund players are so used to having SBD but soul of shandalar is a sleeping giant. The card has done nothing but over preform for me.
I figured I would post my list I've ran into alot of success with since the release of M15. Its a little different than most lists ive seen listed, so feel free to discuss.
Ive piloted this list in 2 big FNM's, a couple of Saturday Night Magics, and a SCG event at out LGS for a free entry into SCG open Indy. Ive went 7-0-1 in the FMNs, and the SCG trial, and 6-0 in both saturdays. I havent made very many changes to the list due to the success ive had with it. Nissa is a all star, and I've won every game I played her. Garruks a beast if you ever drop him, and yes ive lived the dream of answering an elspeth with a garruk!
What inspired me to make this list is i wanted to take the best of green, and best of mono black and meld it together for a pure value deck. You move away from playing low value cards in place of high impact cards. You have mono blacks control and CA (and yes, pack rat) to smooth out draws, and greens stability, ramp and over all high quality beats. With the inclusion of the walkers we now have late game staying power, and the ability to take control decks by the throat. Mono black, and rev decks have a very tough time dealing with a resolved Nissa, and are constantly put under the gun since you come out faster, and have a higher consistancy rate due to the green splash. A light touch of ramp puts you ahead, and courser keeps you ahead. Forcing Mono black to deal with low value threats to not fall behind, and end up getting thwarted with a real threat.
Nissa seems awful without at least 15 forests, which at minimum is 7 basics to our deck (after 8 Rav duals). Sounds miserable for something I don't play four of, and I don't think it's particularly close for debating.
I don't know that Demon + Dragon + Ooze is even where we want to be, but it does seem like it works to an extent.
I love the idea of RtB + 1-2 Connections. Makes me glad Bonfire + Connections wasn't a thing.
You really need to have experience with Nissa to even understand what you said. Go back and read the card very very very closely. 9/10 times you arent using her Untap 4 forests ability. She is a monster of a planes walker. You can make almost always a hasted 4/4 with trample. Its card advantage as well due to the fact if you play her, and she gets blown up you're still left with a 4/4 trample body. If you learn the cards weakness and play around them, over extending lands into a verdict or mortars / elspeth -3 you're doing nothing but great things. She shines with Coursers. Why is that? Well every land you play is now another possible 4/4 body.
The only small downside into playing Nissa in a Jund shell is her ultimate is weak. Most Jund lists play next to no basics.But I can contest to the power of nissa, The last 6 events I've played Nissa won me every game she hit the board. Not even a understatement. Nissa is a power house, and just hasnt been fully discovered yet. She is going to see alot of play in the comming months.
Thats 2 FNM's going 7-0-1, 2 SNM going 6-0, and a SCG event at our LGS for a free entry into SCG Open Indy going 7-0-1.
I went a Disappointing (to me at least) 5-4 at SCG Knoxville Open yesterday. I won't go into detail as after 9 rounds, for once, I don't remember much.
Round 1 vs American Control (2-0)
Now I do remember this one a little bit. Junk did it's thing and just played so smooth and my opponent was a good guy. Didn't once get frustrated. Didn't once do anything wrong what so ever. I won the match we were still talking and signed the slip and I turned it in. When time for round two came up I seen I had zero points. But some others were disputing their loss of points despite winning too. We got it all fixed my opponent was honest and told the judges I had won our match and they fixed the points.
Round 2 vs. Junk Hexproof (2-0)
My opponent was a player from our LGS. He's is a very quiet, reserved guy and our games were somewhat close, especially game two. Abrupt decay was excellent here.
Round 3 vs. The Mirror (2-0)
All I can say is Advent of the wurm does a lot of work in the mirror. At least in all my experience with the match.
Round 4 vs. Camden adkins(#12 on SCG player leader board) Esper Control (0-2)
His deck had every answer to what I had. It was control so that happens. I played as best as one should in this match( even the opinion of my opponent) and I started bricking on draws eventually and my opponent continued find answers. It happens. But Camden was a lot of fun to play against. Very Animated. Nice guy.
Round 5 vs. RW Burn (0-2)
The games weren't very fun. My opponent just pretty much ignored what I did and fished the match...(RW Burn, possibly the new boogey man???)
Round 6 vs. B/W Midrange (2-1)
This is a friend of mine. We only see each at events like Opens, PTQs IQs....but the guy is really cool and we get a long great. There was a point I tried to draw a card with Scry trigger on the stack and I thought I had Courser on the field( I had previously)and it was an honest mistake and we both weren't dead certain what should happen. We agreed it was best to call a judge. Game two he thoughtseized me and seen my hand was lands and removal for anything and everything. He thought he was the removal heavy deck. He got this game after we went into topdecking. Game 3 he kept a risky but solid hand if he drew one more white source. He drew it too late in typical MTG fashion.
Round 7 vs U/w Devotion (2-1)
I don't remember much here other than I realized again, after so long, How much I dislike Thassa when she is animated. I found a way around it all to take the match though.
So I'm feeling good here. I'm confident I can go without a loss the last two rounds. My deck is solid and I can do this. Magic had different plans.
Round 8 vs. American Control (0-2)
My opponent was extremely quiet. Didn't communicate well. Half the time I never knew he passed the turn back or anything. Aetherling was the linchpin in this match for him. Just resolve aetherling late. I can't interact. GGs.
Now, I am not raging here when I say this. In no way what so ever am I upset I lost or that my opponent won. No.. I am upset with WOTC. Why?
It seems after we had the highly skill intensive, arguably most powerful control deck in standard history, the dreaded Cawblade. WOTC decided to make control much easier to play, yet oppressive. This is coming from someone who is a Blue player at heart. It seems anybody can pick up a control deck now. Play verdict turn 4. Turn 5 at the latest if your opponent has a slow start. Follow up with Jace. Then Revelation. Play Elspeth. WIN! The control decks are SO easy to play now it's not even funny. The only time I ever lose with a control deck is if I keep the 3 lander with Verdict or the 4 lander with Jace, Dsphere and hoping for that Verdict. Enough of this rant. I am just sad about this because like I said, I am a control player at heart and when the deck because so linear to me and I find playing Midrange decks more intuitive and fulfilling it is saddening. For me atleast. Done.... Moving on....
Round 9 vs. Mono Blue Devotion (1-2)
Yes. It still exists. Game one he clobbered me. Game two was extremely close. Game 3. I controlled the board hard. Everything of his of relevance died. Then he plays Thassa. Begins scrying. Junk is slow. So he had a bit of time to catch up. Suddenly down comes a Tidebinder. Lock down your 5/5 wurm. Down comes NIghtveil. Thassa is alive! Attack!.
Then it was all about unblockable creatures after that. GGs though. Unlike those non-interactive burn decks.
My friend Jamie made it in to top 8 at 3rd place. I congratulate him many times and my night of Magic is over.
Looking ahead with the breakout deck, despite Burn winning it all, being Brave Naya. It may not be so bad to pack a couple of Drown in sorrow now. Just a thought.
Also, how has everyone else been faring against burn? In testing I was excellent. In Knoxville I was just incinerated!
Thats magic sometimes, everyone has to concede to the power of the top deck. In reguards to RW burn, junk is probably its hardest matchup. I know if i played a RW burn deck, i wouldnt want to play again a life gain deck. Courser, scooze, BB, archangel, ramp and ghost dad? Playing in the color of whips? Yea, even though you lost which just happens, you're still in a very different place than most other decks in that matchup.
I can always never tell what you're trying to do with your deck list. Its always random and out in far left field. Why Ruric Main? He's only good in match ups where they cast more spells than creatures. Creature heavy decks or aggro decks he's a very bad card. Why are you playing erebos in the main? You have almost no black devo. If you say card draw then why not more UWC or RTB?
How many sources of each color do we want/need?
I'd estimate 13 green, 14 red and 15 black. In 23 out of 25 sources, before the first Caryatid, and with 2 Mutavaults, which would look like:
These numbers can (and should!) fluctuate based on what spells you're casting.
You plan to make a turn 2 caryatid / t3 courser with 13 green sources in the deck? Let me know how that works out for you, because it isnt a smart idea. Your first few land drops are the most critical. You want them to be green or black, with maybe a red source. Between downfall, caryatid, and courser / scooze green is a very important color. After side you have to worry about drown as well. Thats why you cant get away from Guilgates at the moment. Based on the best cards for Jund you just need the flexability of those gates colors.
I would like to fit in 3 of the Courser of Kruphix, but I don't know what to drop for them...
My meta.
25% Devotion (Mostly RW and Mono Blue, not much black.)
30% Control (Esper, UW and a bit of UWR)
25% Aggro
20% Midrange (Naya, Jund, Rakdos, BW)
I would drop read the bones, or angers. Anger of the gods was a required evil, but it hurt us at times which isnt a great thing. If it was me i'd drop read the bones for Coursers, and anger for more drowns. Drown is just light years better for us its not even funny. The other thing you have to remember about Drown in Sorrow is you 1) get to scry, and 2) it can not be blanked by anything. You cant regenerate, you cant boros charm, you cant brave the elements. Its just a your weenie creatures die!
Also if you're wanting to rock a god, other than maybe vs control I think Xenagos is just leaps better. He's an annoying threat that makes any creature in your deck (aside caryatid) a real threat.
The only thing I don't like about Drown is...
-Doesn't Perma kill Voice
-Does't kill x/3s
-Doesn't have an exile clause
So I don't know if I want to remove angers.
EDIT: I decided that Coursers have PSUEDO card advantage. Plus it does attack and put pressure on control so it's not horrid. Plus it fuels Rakdos Returns or helps me ramp faster to my bombs.
Still not convinced on Anger < Drown.
Its all about the meta my man. To be totally forthright, the only hyper aggro decks ive seen anyone play is variants of rakdos aggro, and aside from exava, there are all x2's. The next on the list is none other than W/X decks. The big issue you have with any white / X deck is they all pack a play set of brave the elements. I'd probably still go as far to say boros weenie is still the strongest of the W/X variants, and have access to boros charm. Naya is starting to see play, as i knew it would. You still have other removal to get rid of the x/3's and higher. The only thing you're really worried about falling behind on is to hyper aggro, not just aggro. Between courser, our 4 drops, and caryatid if you run them is pretty hard for the go bigger type of aggro decks around.
Like i said, its all a meta call depending on what you're expecting to face. Nothing kills white weenie better than drown right now, its a big middle finger to those decks. Especially after all the new toys its gotten out of the new set.
Edit, running downfalls you already have to pack alot of black, its alot easier on the mana balancing to keep your early drops all the same 2 colors, trying to have 2 red by turn 3 and 2 black is alot harder than having 2 black and 2 red on turn 5+. One last thing, anger is also a "nonbo" with scooze. You cant eat exiled creatures.
It's a bit of an earlier threat that fills in the 3 slot for those draws without a Carytid, and is a good hasty topdeck on an empty board (and sometimes has cute interactions with Kalonian). It does compete with courser at the 3 slot, but I haven't played with either so I'm not sure how good they are.
edit: Also, on the topic of 3cmc, why isn't Witchstalker seen at least in SB? Seems like it's really good against mono-black / mono-blue.
He's okay, but if you ask me in the current meta if i was going to make a more aggro shell of jund, i'd definately go with Dreg Mangler, because with the removal floating around, him having scavenge is just much more valuable, and he always has haste.
I would like to fit in 3 of the Courser of Kruphix, but I don't know what to drop for them...
My meta.
25% Devotion (Mostly RW and Mono Blue, not much black.)
30% Control (Esper, UW and a bit of UWR)
25% Aggro
20% Midrange (Naya, Jund, Rakdos, BW)
I would drop read the bones, or angers. Anger of the gods was a required evil, but it hurt us at times which isnt a great thing. If it was me i'd drop read the bones for Coursers, and anger for more drowns. Drown is just light years better for us its not even funny. The other thing you have to remember about Drown in Sorrow is you 1) get to scry, and 2) it can not be blanked by anything. You cant regenerate, you cant boros charm, you cant brave the elements. Its just a your weenie creatures die!
Also if you're wanting to rock a god, other than maybe vs control I think Xenagos is just leaps better. He's an annoying threat that makes any creature in your deck (aside caryatid) a real threat.
This list is really solid. I must admit, I dislike the absence of Stormbreath Dragon. As you said Jund is your pet, mine is the Dragon. Do you feel you miss it at all? Also, what does your sideboard look like with this list?
Rakdos's Return Such a huge fan of this card, if you land it at the right time it just ends the game against almost all midrange / control decks. And its a big middle finger to mono black.
This is my second pet card. This card is SO powerful right now. I simply run it main.
EDIT: Strange, it says it's my deck when I quoted it....
[/quoteI havent settled, which is why i was reaching out. Its back and forth at this point I cant decide. The best way to put it is being a meta call. Without dragon our control matchups are just super hard. His evasion makes him really good. Though if fw or naya take off because of their new toys, then that greatly increases the value of dragon.\
Rak return has always been amazing!
Side note though, I am feeling on a serious level that 25 lands is too much in a 4 caryatid and 4 courser deck. At this point im really just wanting gas, and im really not having mana problems at all, courser brings home the bacon on that frontline. Anyone else have thoughts on this subject?
I don't know if I want 6 spells that all say "destroy target creature or PWer", even if they cost different amounts. The truly varied removal spells available allows us to remain flexible without giving up consistency.
That said... I feel like we want Anger of the Gods or Drown in Sorrow in our MD, mostly because I feel that with the addition of a new set, most of the decks will be aggressive-natured (or midrange-y... think Gruul/Golgari) and that control will be muted for the first few weeks, so we need to be prepared for that. Have a strong sideboard plan for control (or powerful mize cards to put the sleeper hold on quickly ;D ) and be skewed to beat aggressive strategies.
There you get into meta calling. Obviously if at your LGS or tourny is crawling with aggro, i'd switch dreadbore with bile blight, and probably thoughtseize for 3 drown in sorrow. The reason i was leaning on this list is because its fair against all, and giving you a better game 1. Game 2-3 your side board is there to tune more to your current matchup. You cant be biased like you're mentioning, because you're putting too much faith that you can pull 2 straight games against control after game 1. Because your game 1 is a miracle to win, considering 50% of your deck are dead cards, leaving any control player with decent skill and draw to easily hold you until he can rev the game away.
The thing I always ask myself when I compare the two is. Demon doesnt catch me up when im behing, he's just win more when im already ahead. Polukranos is capable of catching me up when im behind, and able to push me further ahead when im ahead. Against elspeth control i want Polukranos, againt aggro I want polukranos, against midrange I want polukranos.
Jund monsters success was due to the fact it attacked from multiple angels, and could in general keep up with MBD's card engine with domri. Xenagos was a house, and the deck had enough speed to keep MBD on tilt. This deck can do the same thing but with more disruption, and flat out doesnt lose to demon. You're still attacking MBD from multiple angels, same for rev decks. The only thing you're changing is you're adding in more disruption making those value creatures more able to stay on board, and generate more CA for everything you play. Why does Soul of Shandalar beat SBD? Simply due to if i tap out and its downfalled I still have a anytime i want dome you for 3 and most likely take a creature with it. If it doesnt eat removal there is practially no creatures in the format that can contend with it on the battlefield.
The statement of scooze perplexes me as well. The reason scooze has seen so much play is solely due to he's CA and a mana dump and life gain all in 1 single little card. He makes your creature removal package all that more valuable. He just doesnt contend well with himself.
After playign a stretch of Jund monsters, Ive come to learn something about Polukranos. He's a beast of a card, and incurs alot of hate. The reason I feel no harm in jamming 4 into a deck is for several reasons.
1) I always want one
2) He's a house against all aggro decks
3) He dies to nearly all removal in the format
4) You play pack rat, so its not nearly as bad to see extra's when you dont need it.
Thats one of the major reasons I included pack rat into the list. You find sometimes that your hand doesnt mesh well, or you end up with some not so great draws. (Aka mystic off the top on turn 7). Pack rat helped make things alot more consistant, and even if you're dead drawing 1 pack rat can turn everything into live draws.
Another view would be 4 demons instead, or possibly 4 reapers. I've tried both, and in the end Polukranos is the winner in the end. I like him more vs elspeth, I like him more against aggro, and I like him more against devo / midrange decks. Demon keeps you ahead when you're ahead, and never catches you up when behind. Reaper is great against mono black, but average against everything else.
Edit: Side note on Polukranos. I also like to lean more on green to help make Nissa a little better. She is overall the best card in the deck in my honest opinion. Everything else is just gravy over the biscuit.
Thats why you play value creatures. You want to ask can this creature generate a very quick clock? Can it take over a game? Do i atleast get some value out of it? If you get 2 out of 3, then you've found a MD worthy creature. Magic is a game of questions and answers. Just because something dies to removal doesnt mean its a bad way of going about making it an inclusion. Polukranos dies to almost all removal, but he's such a house against aggro, control, and MBD that he's still worth including. Facts are facts. In a format filled with thoughtsieze, the best way to play around it is to make everything in your hand worth thoughtseizing.
The rant earlier was a comment made about Nissa's playability. Ive played both variants, and she's played the same way. The only drawback, which I stated in a previous comment was that in the Jund shell her ulti is weak. You still have plenty of forest targets for ramp, so her +1's are still very good. Nissa in control type shells lets you expand your board with already in play cards. She generates very nice card advantage, and tremendous value. Not to mention the clock she becomes the moment she hits play. Making pseudo haste 4/4 trample bodies even on a mana flooded board is just bonkers.
Also another note. I know alot of Jund players are so used to having SBD but soul of shandalar is a sleeping giant. The card has done nothing but over preform for me.
3 Forest
4 Stomping Ground
4 Blood Crypt
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Abandon
2 Llanowar Wastes
2 Mutavault
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Soul of Shandalar
3 Polukranos, World Eater
Planeswalkers 6
3 Xenagos, The Reveler
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Thoughtseize
2 Dreadbore
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Read the Bones
6 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple of Malady
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Mutavault
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creature 18
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Pack Rat
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Polukranos, World Eater
3 Nissa, Worldwaker
2 Garruk, Apex Predator
Spells 13
3 Underworld Connections
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Thoughtseize
3 Doom blade
2 Golgari Charm
2 Liliana Vess
1 Vraska the Unseen
2 Drown in Sorrow
3 Duress
2 Setessan Tactics
Ive piloted this list in 2 big FNM's, a couple of Saturday Night Magics, and a SCG event at out LGS for a free entry into SCG open Indy. Ive went 7-0-1 in the FMNs, and the SCG trial, and 6-0 in both saturdays. I havent made very many changes to the list due to the success ive had with it. Nissa is a all star, and I've won every game I played her. Garruks a beast if you ever drop him, and yes ive lived the dream of answering an elspeth with a garruk!
What inspired me to make this list is i wanted to take the best of green, and best of mono black and meld it together for a pure value deck. You move away from playing low value cards in place of high impact cards. You have mono blacks control and CA (and yes, pack rat) to smooth out draws, and greens stability, ramp and over all high quality beats. With the inclusion of the walkers we now have late game staying power, and the ability to take control decks by the throat. Mono black, and rev decks have a very tough time dealing with a resolved Nissa, and are constantly put under the gun since you come out faster, and have a higher consistancy rate due to the green splash. A light touch of ramp puts you ahead, and courser keeps you ahead. Forcing Mono black to deal with low value threats to not fall behind, and end up getting thwarted with a real threat.
Any questions feel free to ask, or comment!
You really need to have experience with Nissa to even understand what you said. Go back and read the card very very very closely. 9/10 times you arent using her Untap 4 forests ability. She is a monster of a planes walker. You can make almost always a hasted 4/4 with trample. Its card advantage as well due to the fact if you play her, and she gets blown up you're still left with a 4/4 trample body. If you learn the cards weakness and play around them, over extending lands into a verdict or mortars / elspeth -3 you're doing nothing but great things. She shines with Coursers. Why is that? Well every land you play is now another possible 4/4 body.
The only small downside into playing Nissa in a Jund shell is her ultimate is weak. Most Jund lists play next to no basics.But I can contest to the power of nissa, The last 6 events I've played Nissa won me every game she hit the board. Not even a understatement. Nissa is a power house, and just hasnt been fully discovered yet. She is going to see alot of play in the comming months.
Thats 2 FNM's going 7-0-1, 2 SNM going 6-0, and a SCG event at our LGS for a free entry into SCG Open Indy going 7-0-1.
I can always never tell what you're trying to do with your deck list. Its always random and out in far left field. Why Ruric Main? He's only good in match ups where they cast more spells than creatures. Creature heavy decks or aggro decks he's a very bad card. Why are you playing erebos in the main? You have almost no black devo. If you say card draw then why not more UWC or RTB?
You plan to make a turn 2 caryatid / t3 courser with 13 green sources in the deck? Let me know how that works out for you, because it isnt a smart idea. Your first few land drops are the most critical. You want them to be green or black, with maybe a red source. Between downfall, caryatid, and courser / scooze green is a very important color. After side you have to worry about drown as well. Thats why you cant get away from Guilgates at the moment. Based on the best cards for Jund you just need the flexability of those gates colors.
Its all about the meta my man. To be totally forthright, the only hyper aggro decks ive seen anyone play is variants of rakdos aggro, and aside from exava, there are all x2's. The next on the list is none other than W/X decks. The big issue you have with any white / X deck is they all pack a play set of brave the elements. I'd probably still go as far to say boros weenie is still the strongest of the W/X variants, and have access to boros charm. Naya is starting to see play, as i knew it would. You still have other removal to get rid of the x/3's and higher. The only thing you're really worried about falling behind on is to hyper aggro, not just aggro. Between courser, our 4 drops, and caryatid if you run them is pretty hard for the go bigger type of aggro decks around.
Like i said, its all a meta call depending on what you're expecting to face. Nothing kills white weenie better than drown right now, its a big middle finger to those decks. Especially after all the new toys its gotten out of the new set.
Edit, running downfalls you already have to pack alot of black, its alot easier on the mana balancing to keep your early drops all the same 2 colors, trying to have 2 red by turn 3 and 2 black is alot harder than having 2 black and 2 red on turn 5+. One last thing, anger is also a "nonbo" with scooze. You cant eat exiled creatures.
He's okay, but if you ask me in the current meta if i was going to make a more aggro shell of jund, i'd definately go with Dreg Mangler, because with the removal floating around, him having scavenge is just much more valuable, and he always has haste.
I would drop read the bones, or angers. Anger of the gods was a required evil, but it hurt us at times which isnt a great thing. If it was me i'd drop read the bones for Coursers, and anger for more drowns. Drown is just light years better for us its not even funny. The other thing you have to remember about Drown in Sorrow is you 1) get to scry, and 2) it can not be blanked by anything. You cant regenerate, you cant boros charm, you cant brave the elements. Its just a your weenie creatures die!
Also if you're wanting to rock a god, other than maybe vs control I think Xenagos is just leaps better. He's an annoying threat that makes any creature in your deck (aside caryatid) a real threat.
This is my second pet card. This card is SO powerful right now. I simply run it main.
EDIT: Strange, it says it's my deck when I quoted it....
[/quoteI havent settled, which is why i was reaching out. Its back and forth at this point I cant decide. The best way to put it is being a meta call. Without dragon our control matchups are just super hard. His evasion makes him really good. Though if fw or naya take off because of their new toys, then that greatly increases the value of dragon.\
Rak return has always been amazing!
Side note though, I am feeling on a serious level that 25 lands is too much in a 4 caryatid and 4 courser deck. At this point im really just wanting gas, and im really not having mana problems at all, courser brings home the bacon on that frontline. Anyone else have thoughts on this subject?
There you get into meta calling. Obviously if at your LGS or tourny is crawling with aggro, i'd switch dreadbore with bile blight, and probably thoughtseize for 3 drown in sorrow. The reason i was leaning on this list is because its fair against all, and giving you a better game 1. Game 2-3 your side board is there to tune more to your current matchup. You cant be biased like you're mentioning, because you're putting too much faith that you can pull 2 straight games against control after game 1. Because your game 1 is a miracle to win, considering 50% of your deck are dead cards, leaving any control player with decent skill and draw to easily hold you until he can rev the game away.