Most versions of this deck run multicoloured enough that green mana is not scarce, right? Because Grapple with the Past is strictly better than Corpse Churn unless we genuinely think having one green mana when we want to cast a 2-cost instant is a relevant limitation.
We want to be casting Grisly Salvage or Lotleth Troll by turn 2, so if you play your lands right green mana should not be an issue. I like the interaction with Peatland, and with Traverse the Ulvenwald already in the deck might make some sac-utility lands viable.
In my experience, not many decks can beat a hasty, double-striking, indestructible/hexproof 'Flayer. The strategy is actually pretty resilient to hate because the combo can be pulled off in one turn. Some general notes: spread your keywords out so combo-hate like Surgical Extraction and Slaughter Games doesn't hit a playset of your best soup creature; prioritize hexproof against blue/white decks, indestructible against black/red/green decks, lifelink and/or haste against aggro decks; if their best hope is Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progentius, we can outrace those. We're bigger and faster than midrange, we have maindeck protection against control, maindeck cushions against aggro, and can race combo decks. The goal is consistency (and obviously speed), but the key is redundancy. To that end, there are a few interesting cards I wanted to hear what the community had to say about:
Ashiok, Dream Render - This seems like a nuts sideboard card. Hoses fetches and any opposing graveyard shenanigans...on top of fueling a whole soulflayer on a single activation. Currently testing 2x in the SB.
Sinister Concoction - This has better synergy with our deck than Lightning Axe imo. While it costs one more mana and a life, its a great delirium/soulflayer enabler as its an enchantment and mills a card. I cant think of a downside in modern to replace 5 dmg with a destroy effect either. Going to test 2x replacing my Axe.
Lightning Skelemental - A hard-castable threat I definitely want to try. Can act as a fifth beater while waiting for flayers or in the late game, and puts itself in the graveyard for us. One of the more powerful options if going the Hellspark Elemental etc. route. Going to test 2x replacing 2x Samut.
Corpse Churn / Grapple with the Past / Commune with the Gods / Gather the Pack (Maybe even Tracker's Instincts for builds running Caryatid?) / Cathartic Reunion - Basically I think the deck could benefit from a 9-10th copy of immediate filtering/graveyard fueling. Don't get me wrong, Bomat Courier is awesome, but he's a bit slow and doesn't guarantee anything. Playing two of these spells by turn 2 instead of one allows for a more reliable and powerful turn 3 Soulflayer, which is essentially our best strategy. Since I only play 3 Couriers, I'm thinking of adding a single copy of one of these to get a 12 total copies of filter/gy fuel effects. I don't like Reunion because you discard before you draw. I don't like Incubation // Incongruity because it doesn't fuel the gy. I like the Corpse Churn type effect because lategame it can get back a dead flayer.
Liliana, the Last Hope - The above mentioned effect on a stick. And her +1 is not irrelevant. Can attract hate away from our life total/flayer. Going to test this in place of a Brutality.
The only version of Mono-Blue Stax I ran was Patron of the Moon. It might be 7cmc, but it can be cheated out with Offering (you don't need to run all the Moonfolk to benefit from that, just a couple of decent ones). Its ability combined with Mana Breach and Overburden really hurt opponents while I could be ahead of the rest of the table in land drops. Even though it's not the focus of the deck, Patron is worth considering adding to your deck because if nothing else you can cheat out more lands from your hand that you draw with Primal Tide. Also, Muddle the Mixture and Drift of Phantasms can tutor up some of your pieces.
Sunder is also a powerhouse when you have a lot of mana rocks, and with Patron, you float mana right before casting it to then cheat back your lands into play. Sunder and Patron can make tables scoop with the sheer mana advantage you have over the rest of the table.
Yeah ill have to find room for Muddle the Mixture. Sunder is also great if I want to be that oppressive hahah.
I'm really liking your thought process on this one. Artifacts will make the deck faster but stax/control will help you win with commander damage for when you finally cast Nezahal. It seems like both kinds of builds has lots of potential. You could even add a slight storm theme with the spellslinging stax/control version. So bonus points if you fit Crow Storm in there!
Thanks- after some testing the control element has definitely proven vital, and makes me want to maintain the artifact / spell balance rather than go full artifacts.
Speaking of testing, here’s the list i’ve been running with quite some success:
I'm currently experimenting with an artifact-based control deck led by Nezahal, Primal Tide. Mana rocks to accelerate, Stax cards to slow down the game, and equipment for the voltron win.
The power level can be adjusted based on the stax elements you want to include, but control and slowing the game down ensures it will always be competitive.
Definitely like Torpor Orb, Teferi, Overburden, and Tanglewire, can't believe I missed Mystic Remora, Dust Bowl, and Strip Mine.
I'd definitely run more countermagic, and more ways to help Nezahl connect for lethal. Running all five swords seems like overkill.
Also agreed. If the deck can reliably generate spell discounts, I want to use higher cost and quality counters like Insidious Will and Rewind. Thinking Artful Dodge, Defy Gravity, and Distortion Strike for the latter. Fair enough, its F&F, F&I, and L&S that have the most synergy with the deck.
You are running several cards that feel a bit casual for a STAX deck, like Arcanis the Omnipotent, so I'd consider some other nastier stuff in its place.
That is kind of my intention due to my playgroup's power level. Arcanis is expensive but works so well with Nezahal's discard hard to avoid being intrigued. I'd have to test to see how often I'd be able to play him.
Also, Disciple of the Ring seems busted in this deck and with a big enough graveyard and voltron support seems like it could win on its own.
This guy is packed with powerful raw abilities that a well-built deck can take advantage of.
I had in mind a control/stax build with a few voltron elements using our commander as the finisher. Due to his discard-protection, the deck should feature blue's best graveyard/discard strategies; abilities like Madness, Flashback, and Delve. Blue is also good at recurring instants/sorceries and artifacts, which we should utilize as well.
This is my first iteration of what I imagine to be the deck's core:
Future Sight / Magus of the Future are good because they allow us to cast spells from our library and allow our hand to remain stocked with cards in case we need to protect Nezahal.
Release to the Wind is an interesting new card i look forward to testing, and can usefully protect Nezahal if we want to keep what's in our hand.
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From here, I see two possibilities. The deck could go almost full artifact theme, with cards like:
I like the approach that if we focus on controlling the board, we dont need to control hands; Tar Fiend and Thoughtpicker Witch haven't done much for me and are probably going to get cut soon. That being said, Sadistic Hypnotist is too broken with Endrek to not include, imo.
How has Druidic Satchel been working for you? Seems like an interesting utility card I want to try out.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this combo only produce infinite blue mana? Because you can only choose to create a mana of one color from Food Chain, and you will need blue every time to recast Griffin...
I don't run any Dredge Shenanigans, just pure beefy Soulflayer. I have a few Jund-control elements to protect the combo. The card that is giving me the most grief is Blood Moon, but I added a few more basics so hopefully the match up will be better. Thoughts?
We want to be casting Grisly Salvage or Lotleth Troll by turn 2, so if you play your lands right green mana should not be an issue. I like the interaction with Peatland, and with Traverse the Ulvenwald already in the deck might make some sac-utility lands viable.
4x Soulflayer
3x Bomat Courier
3x Lotleth Troll
4x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Samut, Voice of Dissent
1x Lightning Skelemental
2x Drogskol Reaver
3x Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
2x Chromanticore
1x Hazoret the Fervent
Spells 16
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
4x Faithless Looting
4x Grisly Salvage
2x Collective Brutality
2x Lightning Axe
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Nurturing Peatland
1x Blooming Marsh
1x Dragonskull Summit
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Blood Crypt
1x Stomping Ground
1x Forest
1x Swamp
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Damping Sphere
2x Assassin's Trophy
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Force of Vigor
1x Lightning Axe
1x Anger of the Gods
2x Ashiok, Dream Render
1x Spark Trooper
1x Nightveil Predator
In my experience, not many decks can beat a hasty, double-striking, indestructible/hexproof 'Flayer. The strategy is actually pretty resilient to hate because the combo can be pulled off in one turn. Some general notes: spread your keywords out so combo-hate like Surgical Extraction and Slaughter Games doesn't hit a playset of your best soup creature; prioritize hexproof against blue/white decks, indestructible against black/red/green decks, lifelink and/or haste against aggro decks; if their best hope is Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progentius, we can outrace those. We're bigger and faster than midrange, we have maindeck protection against control, maindeck cushions against aggro, and can race combo decks. The goal is consistency (and obviously speed), but the key is redundancy. To that end, there are a few interesting cards I wanted to hear what the community had to say about:
Ashiok, Dream Render - This seems like a nuts sideboard card. Hoses fetches and any opposing graveyard shenanigans...on top of fueling a whole soulflayer on a single activation. Currently testing 2x in the SB.
Sinister Concoction - This has better synergy with our deck than Lightning Axe imo. While it costs one more mana and a life, its a great delirium/soulflayer enabler as its an enchantment and mills a card. I cant think of a downside in modern to replace 5 dmg with a destroy effect either. Going to test 2x replacing my Axe.
Lightning Skelemental - A hard-castable threat I definitely want to try. Can act as a fifth beater while waiting for flayers or in the late game, and puts itself in the graveyard for us. One of the more powerful options if going the Hellspark Elemental etc. route. Going to test 2x replacing 2x Samut.
Corpse Churn / Grapple with the Past / Commune with the Gods / Gather the Pack (Maybe even Tracker's Instincts for builds running Caryatid?) / Cathartic Reunion - Basically I think the deck could benefit from a 9-10th copy of immediate filtering/graveyard fueling. Don't get me wrong, Bomat Courier is awesome, but he's a bit slow and doesn't guarantee anything. Playing two of these spells by turn 2 instead of one allows for a more reliable and powerful turn 3 Soulflayer, which is essentially our best strategy. Since I only play 3 Couriers, I'm thinking of adding a single copy of one of these to get a 12 total copies of filter/gy fuel effects. I don't like Reunion because you discard before you draw. I don't like Incubation // Incongruity because it doesn't fuel the gy. I like the Corpse Churn type effect because lategame it can get back a dead flayer.
Liliana, the Last Hope - The above mentioned effect on a stick. And her +1 is not irrelevant. Can attract hate away from our life total/flayer. Going to test this in place of a Brutality.
Yeah ill have to find room for Muddle the Mixture. Sunder is also great if I want to be that oppressive hahah.
Thanks- after some testing the control element has definitely proven vital, and makes me want to maintain the artifact / spell balance rather than go full artifacts.
Speaking of testing, here’s the list i’ve been running with quite some success:
Artifacts (19)
1 Sol Ring
2 Howling Mine
2 Sapphire Medallion
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Torpor Orb
2 Winter Orb
3 Static Orb
3 Inspiring Statuary
3 Crawlspace
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Worn Powerstone
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Whispersilk Cloak
3 Tangle Wire
4 Thran Dynamo
4 Vedalken Orrery
5 Mind’s Eye
5 Gilded Lotus
Creatures (8)
3 Trophy Mage
4 Silent Arbiter
4 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
4 Wonder
4 Whirler Rogue
4 Vizier of Many Faces
4 Voidmage Husher
5 Disciple of the Ring
1 Swan Song
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Defy Gravity
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Just the Wind
2 Think Twice
2 Whir of Invention
2 Pull from Tomorrow
3 Blue Sun’s Zenith
3 Disallow
3 Metallic Rebuke
4 Insidious Will
4 Commit / Memory
4 Rewind
4 AEtherize
4 Cryptic Command
4 Paradoxical Outcome
5 Spell Swindle
5 Evacuation
5 Mystic Confluence
8 Dig Through Time
Sorceries (7)
1 Artful Dodge
3 Fabricate
4 Welcome to the Fold
4 Argivian Restoration
5 Reverse Engineer
5 Baral’s Expertise
8 Treasure Cruise
1 Mystic Remora
2 Overburden
3 Rhystic Study
3 Propaganda
4 Frozen AEther
Walkers (2)
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
8 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Lands (37)
22 Islands
0 Academy Ruins
0 Buried Ruin
0 Tolaria West
0 Arcane Lighthouse
0 Blighted Cataract
0 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
0 Cathedral of War
0 Terrain Generator
0 Strip Mine
0 Tectonic Edge
0 Rogue’s Passage
0 Maze of Ith
0 Seat of the Synod
0 Scavenger Grounds
0 Inventors’ Fair
I want to lower the artifact count, throw in some more counterspells. Might replace Voidmage Husher with Lunar Mystic.
It has some really neat interactions such as Inspiring Statuary and Whirler Rogue with Howling Mine, Winter Orb, Static Orb, and the equipment package.
Also features some great graveyard interactions and mechanics like Disciple of the Ring, Vizier of Many Faces, Dig Through Time, and Artful Dodge to make use of spells discarded to protected Nezahal.
The power level can be adjusted based on the stax elements you want to include, but control and slowing the game down ensures it will always be competitive.
Definitely like Torpor Orb, Teferi, Overburden, and Tanglewire, can't believe I missed Mystic Remora, Dust Bowl, and Strip Mine.
Also agreed. If the deck can reliably generate spell discounts, I want to use higher cost and quality counters like Insidious Will and Rewind. Thinking Artful Dodge, Defy Gravity, and Distortion Strike for the latter. Fair enough, its F&F, F&I, and L&S that have the most synergy with the deck.
That is kind of my intention due to my playgroup's power level. Arcanis is expensive but works so well with Nezahal's discard hard to avoid being intrigued. I'd have to test to see how often I'd be able to play him.
Also, Disciple of the Ring seems busted in this deck and with a big enough graveyard and voltron support seems like it could win on its own.
I like Glyph Keeper and Drake Haven to get value from discarding with Nezahal.
This guy is packed with powerful raw abilities that a well-built deck can take advantage of.
I had in mind a control/stax build with a few voltron elements using our commander as the finisher. Due to his discard-protection, the deck should feature blue's best graveyard/discard strategies; abilities like Madness, Flashback, and Delve. Blue is also good at recurring instants/sorceries and artifacts, which we should utilize as well.
This is my first iteration of what I imagine to be the deck's core:
1 Think Twice
1 Chart a Course
1 Howling Mine
1 Rhystic Study
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Font of Mythos
1 Kumena's Awakening
1 Mind's Eye
1 Reverse Engineer
1 Thoughtcast
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Dig Through Time
1 Arcanis the Omnipotent
Stax
1 Winter Orb
1 Static Orb
1 Crawlspace
1 Propaganda
1 Frozen AEther
1 Silent Arbiter
1 The Immortal Sun
1 Ward of Bones
Control
1 Just the Wind
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Commit // Memory
1 Metallic Rebuke
1 Stoic Rebuttal
1 Cryptic Command
1 Welcome to the Fold
1 Baral's Expertise
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Spell Swindle
1 Evacuation
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Wonder
5 Sword of X & Y
Recurrence
1 Myr Retriever
1 Workshop Assistant
1 Archeomancer
1 Scarecrone
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Argivian Restoration
Ramp
1 Sol Ring
1 Sapphire Medallion
1 Inspiring Statuary
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Gilded Lotus
Utility
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Fabricate
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Trophy Mage
1 Release to the Wind
1 Whir of Invention
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Vizier of Many Faces
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Future Sight
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Cathedral of War
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Maze of Ith
1 Scavenger Grounds
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Buried Ruin
1 Academy Ruins
Inspiring Statuary appears to be an all star in the deck. It has great synergy with Winter Orb, Static Orb, Howling Mine, equipment, and many other artifacts.
Future Sight / Magus of the Future are good because they allow us to cast spells from our library and allow our hand to remain stocked with cards in case we need to protect Nezahal.
Release to the Wind is an interesting new card i look forward to testing, and can usefully protect Nezahal if we want to keep what's in our hand.
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From here, I see two possibilities. The deck could go almost full artifact theme, with cards like:
Or, it could maintain a control theme with cards like:
With more counterspells and such.
------
(Disclaimer: I don't usually play stax or artifact-based decks, so I may have left out some no-brainers)
Other potential inclusions could be Talrand, Sky Summoner, Dictate of Kruphix, Kami of the Crescent Moon, Kefnet the Mindful, Elite Arcanist, Isochron Scepter, Empyrial Plate, Argentum Armor, Sword of Vengeance, Alhammarret's Archive, Champion of Wits... lots of possibilities.
What do you all think- is this the way to go? What other cards can take advantage of Nezahal's abilities?
Genesis - 4 power, and with the amount of creatures you are running this guy can be very useful to bring back your utility creatures late game.
Temur Sabertooth - 4 power 4 drop, allows for some board wipe insurance and re-using ETB effects.
No Savage Punch?
I dont like Ravenous Baloth in the deck because you only run 4 beasts total- how has he been working out for you?
1 Thoughtpicker Witch
2 Zulaport Cutthroat
2 Blood Artist
3 Burnished Hart
3 Flesh Carver
3 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Crypt Ghast
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Smothering Abomination
5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
5 Sadistic Hypnotist
5 Fallen Angel
5 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
5 Phyrexian Plaguelord
6 Reaper from the Abyss
6 Harvester of Souls
6 Grave Titan
6 Tar Fiend
6 Kokusho, the Evening Star
6 Massacre Wurm
7 Butcher of Malakir
7 Sepulchral Primordial
12 It That Betrays
Enhantments - 8
2 Animate Dead
3 Mind Slash
3 Attrition
3 Fallen Ideal
3 Necropotence
4 Grave Pact
5 Black Market
5 Dictate of Erebos
1 Sol Ring
1 Skullclamp
2 Nim Deathmantle
2 Jet Medallion
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Extraplanar Lens
3 Mirage Mirror
3 Unstable Obelisk
4 Helm of Possession
5 Eldrazi Monument
6 Caged Sun
Walkers - 3
4 Liliana of the Dark Realms
5 Ob Nixilis Reignited
7 Karn Liberated
Spells - 17
1 Tragic Slip
2 Malicious Affliction
2 Soul Exchange
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Exsanguinate
2 Torment of Hailfire
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Victimize
4 Dread Return
4 Temporal Extortion
4 Snuff Out
5 Wretched Confluence
5 Eliminate the Competition
5 Syphon Flesh
6 Reign of the Pit
9 Rise of the Dark Realms
0 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
0 Myriad Landscape
0 Bojuka Bog
0 Cabal Coffers
0 High Market
0 Strip Mine
0 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
0 Volrath's Stronghold
0 Westvale Abbey
0 Phyrexian Tower
27 Swamp
I have recently added:
Mirage Mirror: seems like a powerful utility card and I'm excited to see what it can do.
Nim Deathmantle: Mainly for the Ashnod's Altar and Grave Titan combo as an additional wincon.
Temporal Extortion: Another utility card that I want to test out.
I'm currently looking to include Razaketh, the Foulblooded, Phyrexian Arena, Magus of the Coffers and Ashes to Ashes.
I like the approach that if we focus on controlling the board, we dont need to control hands; Tar Fiend and Thoughtpicker Witch haven't done much for me and are probably going to get cut soon. That being said, Sadistic Hypnotist is too broken with Endrek to not include, imo.
How has Druidic Satchel been working for you? Seems like an interesting utility card I want to try out.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this combo only produce infinite blue mana? Because you can only choose to create a mana of one color from Food Chain, and you will need blue every time to recast Griffin...
Thanks.
1x Fauna Shaman
2x Lotleth Troll
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
4x Aven Fleetwing
1x Ascended Lawmage
2x Drogskol Reaver
2x Spark Trooper
1x Chromanticore
4x Lightning Axe
3x Liliana of the Veil
3x Duress
4x Faithless Looting
1x Gather the Pack
2x Pick the Brain
I don't run any Dredge Shenanigans, just pure beefy Soulflayer. I have a few Jund-control elements to protect the combo. The card that is giving me the most grief is Blood Moon, but I added a few more basics so hopefully the match up will be better. Thoughts?
1x Fauna Shaman
2x Lotleth Troll
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
4x Aven Fleetwing
1x Ascended Lawmage
2x Drogskol Reaver
2x Spark Trooper
1x Chromanticore
4x Lightning Axe
3x Liliana of the Veil
3x Duress
4x Faithless Looting
1x Gather the Pack
2x Pick the Brain
I was wondering if anyone else was building something similar, and if they have seen any primers/threads regarding this deck idea. Thanks.