One ticket? While it might be an interesting thought project, I personally think it would be more feasible to bump it up to 5 tix since the shops I know of won't take a purchase for less than that amount.
If you have a ton of creatures and don't mind toying around with Manifest, Whisperwood Elemental can kind of be card advantage. It also serves as boardwipe insurance.
With the proliferation of fast mana in the Multiplayer banlist (Sol Ring, Ancient Tomb, Mana Crypt, etc.) it must be considered very easy to godhand one's way to victory almost regardless of the deck you're using. I suppose Duel banlist allows for tighter, more skillful play.
I suppose I probably shouldn't worry about control effects either, since I'm running enough land tutors to grab Homeward Path whenever I want. Honestly, with the versatility of lands nowadays and all the tutors, it almost feels like I'm playing B with gimmicky draw and way more mana. Which is impressive because Black gets a ton of mana to begin with.
I feel like Yisan deserves mention just for being a tutor general. He and Freyalise are probably the most flexible for any given MP meta.
Ezuri is extremely dangerous because he is essentially Craterhoof Behemoth in the commander zone for one of the most supported tribes in the game; there is a reason Elves see play in virtually every format. I've been running an aggro-combo list (soon to be adjusted) and I don't even know what the hell I'm doing with him half the time. I still stumble into victories.
I can't count the amount of times I've lost to Azusa. And frankly, Omnath is also quite monstrous.
I think it's clear I need to find room for Elixir and SoD at least.
Quote from Pook and Pie »
Last thing from me, I promise
I appreciate all the posts and don't mind if this conversation goes on for a long time, as these are all very good suggestions. As far as Nullmage Shepherd goes, I think she would do okay as an Acidic Slime replacement. Hits fewer things, but she does come down on the board earlier and I like how the effect is repeatable.
Quote from Bolas, the Mindsculptor »
Yes. Normally with 1v1, using the mutiplayer banlist (duh), Ezuri is enough. Joraga Warcaller is a redundant effect when your general has an in-built Overrun.
I feel like I at least need a backup plan if something happens to Ezuri. I don't know if any recent patches fixed it, but last I checked, MTGO is STILL allowing Generals to be tucked so leaning on Ezuri so hard might be my literal equivalent of "asking for it." So I don't know if I really want to drop Warcaller or Behemoth.
As for Aluren, I have been running into a ton of Alesha players, though I suppose I am technically running better creatures in a oombo plan so maybe this isn't actually a big deal.
I'd be a hypocrite if I said I didn't tolerate foreign language cards. The fact that you can shave a good amount of Mana Crypt's monetary cost by buying a foreign version is the only reason I even bothered to pick one up in the first place.
I'm not a big fan of symmetrical effects, so I think I'll pass on Aluren. Though Concordant Crossroads IS tempting. I've also seen Cloudstone Curio do work in Animar, certainly, but along with the aforementioned pieces plus stuff like Thousand Year Elixir, I kind of wondering if I'm going too far in with Johnny and having too few things that will give me an improved board state on their own. I kind of like having an aggro sub theme with all the Lords.
That said, this is mostly from a 1v1 perspective by someone who is virtually a complete newbie in Elfball, so maybe I don't know what the heck I'm talking about. I expect going full Johnny in MP is surely better, at least.
Seeker of Skybreak and Elvish Moggcatcher look pretty good though. And normally I'd balk at Staff of Domination being heavy on the cost the first time you use it, but with its versatility and in a deck with this much mana, I'm giving it consideration.
All my wife's deck uses for Natural Order is Craterhoof and Vorinclex. I don't really recall her ever getting the latter, but he's in there for some reason (usually because dropping him on the third damn turn hurts all of the other green decks here considerably). As far as Shamanic Revelation vs Regal Force goes, Force wins every time but I was talking about Harmonize's slot with that, lol. I'm pretty sure that getting hit by Cyclonic Rift with Harmonize on the stack sucks almost as much as Force/Revelation, but I get what you mean.
Along with those, I've also seen people use stuff like Tsabo's Decree. I suppose these kinds of instant speed board wipes shouldn't be so annoying to me especially with a commander like Ezuri, but I can't help but think of corner cases like these. Still, I will try to give Shamanic Revelation a spin.
Quote from Pook and Pie »
I forgot a few cards that I initially meant to recommend, those being: Genesis Wave and Eldrazi Monument. I'd actually recommend Genesis Wave over Brass Herald or Sylvan Messenger, and I'll explain why. You're only running 33 Elves. This means that 1 in 3 of your cards would be and Elf, so you'd get 1 or 2 cards off either creature per casting, more if you're extremely lucky, but the chances of throwing away something vital in exchange for a mana baby is pretty high. Throwing away tutors you may have needed to finish the game and only getting a Boreal Druid was what led to that card being removed from my wife's deck, as sometimes she would sit there with more mana than cards and Sylvan Messenger never really helped get the ball rolling again after a failed combat step.[/c]
Considering how monstrous the mana is in this deck at almost all times, I probably should have had Genesis Wave in to begin with. That said, I've already won games off of Messenger and Herald giving me extra gas against sweeper-heavy red decks, though I acknowledge Herald might be a bit overcosted even if it doubles as a Lord. Also, Eldrazi Monument is pretty sweet just for that Indestructible (again, thinking about those sweepers) though the evasion is pretty good too.
Quote from Pook and Pie »
Also, quick unrelated question: Do you have a Ghoulcaller Gisa list anywhere? I've been wanting to make that deck but there are way too many, "Oh, this would be good" cards to add in, so I've got a stack of 150+ cards and am too indecisive to round out an actual list. Would you mind sharing for someone also trying to make a decent-but-not-busted Monoblack EDH Gisa?
Oh man, I'm actually embarrassed about my list, it's pretty bad. Trying to do too many things at once while being too light on the zombies.
If you do add Umbral Mantle, consider also adding Viridian Joiner. He's pretty good on his own (netting you an almost free second Ezuri activation) and he's a two card infinite combo with the Mantle (Turn 1 Sol Ring, Turn 2 Viridian Joiner, Turn 3 Umbral Mantle into Ezuri = Kill one opponent on Turn 3 (and the other two on Turn 4 in MP)) .
In addition to Craterhoof, Akroma's Memorial is pretty backbreaking and easy to cast T4 or so. Not really on-theme but eh whatever it's a good card haha.
I like Craterhoof since it's a bomb with legs, but you know, any game where I cast Akroma's Memorial would probably end next turn at the very least, and that's good enough for me, I'll squeeze it in somewhere.
I have found Chameleon Colossus to be a real beast of a finisher/mana sink. He'll get trample from Ezuri's overrun, and then almost trivially become a one-hit KO on his own with just a little bit of mana.
Survival of the Fittest is beyond amazing, lets you parctically become a control deck alongside Yeva, Nature's Herald and can keep going on and on an on with Masked Admirers. With Admirers in hand and Survival in play, I have kept my board alive in response to Elesh Norn+Crackling Counterpart (pitch Admirers to tutor Yeva, flash Yeva getting back Admirers, pitch Admirers to tutor a lord, flash lord getting back Admirers, pitch Admirers to get Warcaller, flash Warcaller getting back Admirers), which is not something a deck full of small creature is generally good at doing.
I already have Quirion Ranger, Scryb Ranger, and Wirewood Symbiote. It's funny, because those EXACT three are the reason I even got interested in Elfball in the first place. It's one thing to see them in every EDH, Legacy, and Vintage Elf decklist, but it's another thing entirely to watch the three of them to actually do their work. In person. On you. I actually got my butt kicked by an Elf player who had these three out plus a few dorks and an Elf Lord, and only like one or two Forests. It was actually kind of inspiring to watch myself lose to someone who was so badly landlocked, and pushed me to go try this archetype.
I feel like I need more evasion (like the aforementioned Eldrazi Monument) to make good use of Chameleon Colossus, even though Ezuri's sitting in the CZ. Though Colossus DOES look pretty amazing for 4 CMC and I have lost before because of him.
That Masked Admirers-Survival of the Fittest engine is something else, it kind of reminds me of Squeeengines. As a primarily mono-red player I'm a huge fan of Squee engines, plus the self-recur on Admirers provides some lasting board presence. I'll definitely think about it.
Probably going to throw out a land for Immaculate Magistrate, I even have one already. I'm kind of surprised I didn't include it already.
I despise getting land screwed and I have no cash for real fetches which is why I'm running Expanse and Wilds, but I will admit it has been a pain. I might just throw out both, get Windswept Heath and replace the other with a regular Snow-Covered Forest and then call it a day. Either that or maybe Blighted Woodland or Myriad Landscape since I hardly ever see Stifle.
I think I had Viridian Shaman for the extra toughness but honestly Reclamation Sage is probably better for the versatility. I'll do a replacement.
I have been hit by Cyclonic Rift and Evacuation in response to Shamanic Revelation and Regal Force before. If I'm going to run a board-dependent piece of draw, I'd rather it be the one that provides the 5/5 body (and will therefore at least self-replace as a result). Slate of Ancestry and Soul of the Harvest are pretty cool though, I'm definitely using those in MP.
Currently running Elf tribal with Ezuri, Renegade Leader. Current decklist is in my signature and I play 1v1 on MTGO almost predominantly, where half the players are extremely degenerate.
Any particular staples I'm missing? Or cool stuff that I could do, and haven't considered? Heck, feel free to suggest stuff that would work well in MP or DC formats too since I might pick up the deck physically and find people, or try MP at some point. Though I don't imagine it'll change too much, all things considered.
Also, a Selvala Top 8'd, that's awesome. As someone trying to cook up a new deck for her, I thought it's pretty cool to see.
Bolas, do you have a list anywhere?
Also, what do you guys think about Skullclamp and Devoted Druid?
Ezuri is extremely dangerous because he is essentially Craterhoof Behemoth in the commander zone for one of the most supported tribes in the game; there is a reason Elves see play in virtually every format. I've been running an aggro-combo list (soon to be adjusted) and I don't even know what the hell I'm doing with him half the time. I still stumble into victories.
I can't count the amount of times I've lost to Azusa. And frankly, Omnath is also quite monstrous.
I appreciate all the posts and don't mind if this conversation goes on for a long time, as these are all very good suggestions. As far as Nullmage Shepherd goes, I think she would do okay as an Acidic Slime replacement. Hits fewer things, but she does come down on the board earlier and I like how the effect is repeatable.
I feel like I at least need a backup plan if something happens to Ezuri. I don't know if any recent patches fixed it, but last I checked, MTGO is STILL allowing Generals to be tucked so leaning on Ezuri so hard might be my literal equivalent of "asking for it." So I don't know if I really want to drop Warcaller or Behemoth.
As for Aluren, I have been running into a ton of Alesha players, though I suppose I am technically running better creatures in a oombo plan so maybe this isn't actually a big deal.
Regarding Cloudstone Curio; should I run Multani's Acolyte as a duplicate Elvish Visionary effect?
No lie, Collected Company is cool.
That said, this is mostly from a 1v1 perspective by someone who is virtually a complete newbie in Elfball, so maybe I don't know what the heck I'm talking about. I expect going full Johnny in MP is surely better, at least.
Seeker of Skybreak and Elvish Moggcatcher look pretty good though. And normally I'd balk at Staff of Domination being heavy on the cost the first time you use it, but with its versatility and in a deck with this much mana, I'm giving it consideration.
Along with those, I've also seen people use stuff like Tsabo's Decree. I suppose these kinds of instant speed board wipes shouldn't be so annoying to me especially with a commander like Ezuri, but I can't help but think of corner cases like these. Still, I will try to give Shamanic Revelation a spin.
Considering how monstrous the mana is in this deck at almost all times, I probably should have had Genesis Wave in to begin with. That said, I've already won games off of Messenger and Herald giving me extra gas against sweeper-heavy red decks, though I acknowledge Herald might be a bit overcosted even if it doubles as a Lord. Also, Eldrazi Monument is pretty sweet just for that Indestructible (again, thinking about those sweepers) though the evasion is pretty good too.
Oh man, I'm actually embarrassed about my list, it's pretty bad. Trying to do too many things at once while being too light on the zombies.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/forum-1-vs-1-commander-decklists/630386-traditional-commander-making-a-gisa-deck-for-mtgo
I can say with absolute certainty that Liliana's Reaver, Noxious Ghoul, Lashwrithe, and Nightmare Lash are pretty incredible, though.
Ok, I'm definitely finding a slot for Joiner.
I like Craterhoof since it's a bomb with legs, but you know, any game where I cast Akroma's Memorial would probably end next turn at the very least, and that's good enough for me, I'll squeeze it in somewhere.
I already have Quirion Ranger, Scryb Ranger, and Wirewood Symbiote. It's funny, because those EXACT three are the reason I even got interested in Elfball in the first place. It's one thing to see them in every EDH, Legacy, and Vintage Elf decklist, but it's another thing entirely to watch the three of them to actually do their work. In person. On you. I actually got my butt kicked by an Elf player who had these three out plus a few dorks and an Elf Lord, and only like one or two Forests. It was actually kind of inspiring to watch myself lose to someone who was so badly landlocked, and pushed me to go try this archetype.
I feel like I need more evasion (like the aforementioned Eldrazi Monument) to make good use of Chameleon Colossus, even though Ezuri's sitting in the CZ. Though Colossus DOES look pretty amazing for 4 CMC and I have lost before because of him.
That Masked Admirers-Survival of the Fittest engine is something else, it kind of reminds me of Squee engines. As a primarily mono-red player I'm a huge fan of Squee engines, plus the self-recur on Admirers provides some lasting board presence. I'll definitely think about it.
Probably going to throw out a land for Immaculate Magistrate, I even have one already. I'm kind of surprised I didn't include it already.
I despise getting land screwed and I have no cash for real fetches which is why I'm running Expanse and Wilds, but I will admit it has been a pain. I might just throw out both, get Windswept Heath and replace the other with a regular Snow-Covered Forest and then call it a day. Either that or maybe Blighted Woodland or Myriad Landscape since I hardly ever see Stifle.
I think I had Viridian Shaman for the extra toughness but honestly Reclamation Sage is probably better for the versatility. I'll do a replacement.
I have been hit by Cyclonic Rift and Evacuation in response to Shamanic Revelation and Regal Force before. If I'm going to run a board-dependent piece of draw, I'd rather it be the one that provides the 5/5 body (and will therefore at least self-replace as a result). Slate of Ancestry and Soul of the Harvest are pretty cool though, I'm definitely using those in MP.
Problem with Natural Order is that I think my only serious target with it would be Craterhoof Behemoth. Same issue with Tooth and Nail. Feel like I need more bombs for either.
Any particular staples I'm missing? Or cool stuff that I could do, and haven't considered? Heck, feel free to suggest stuff that would work well in MP or DC formats too since I might pick up the deck physically and find people, or try MP at some point. Though I don't imagine it'll change too much, all things considered.