Most of the interactions start when you've gained access to Academy Ruins. That way you get extra value out of putting artifacts in the grave, but since we frequently run 3+ differently named big things you'll always get something good. You could think of it as a double Fabricate at instant speed. It also fills a role close to Thirst for Knowledge, which is a card we might have played another copy of or two of if we could.
Mindslavering someone and casting Gifts in their turn closes out the game pretty well too.
I'm pretty sure the first Fabricate is better than Treasure Mage, going from one to two effective copies of Batterskull and Oblivion Stone is pretty big. However I wont even try to defend multiple copies. The advantage drops off quickly, and the Mage does his thing well.
Edit: Didn't see lucashungaro's post when I made mine
Look at turn 3 in your example. 3 mana open on turn 3 is highly significant. It sets us up for a Thirst for Knowledge and improves 5 out of our 13 counters (Condescend and Spell Burst). Sure, there are times when you don't activate the bauble for a few turns, but these are the same turns were it was unsafe to cast a talisman. Except with the talisman you were working with less information. Edit3: Repealing something with CMC 2 for counter the following turn is also pretty valuable. If you're planning on remanding you'll even have time to crack the bauble.
Edit2:
As for the tempo loss when you draw the bauble late. How often were you glad to have drawn a Talisman late anyway? The bauble pitches to Thirst just as well.
I don't see how Expedition map does the same as the bauble. The bauble ramps, the map doesn't. I'm replacing Talismans with Baubles, for their rampyness, not because it happens to be a land I'm grabbing.
I agree that the goal of the deck isn't to keep countermagic up all the time, but we play enough countermagic to have hands with multiple pieces of countermagic on hand at the same time. In those cases it would definitively be advantageous if you could keep up a counter each turn if you wanted.
I returned to the deck a while ago, after the pod bannings, and have been doing quite a bit of experimenting with it during the last couple of weeks. I posted a couple of pages back about Conjurer's Bauble, which in the end didn't pan out, but did give some insight into the problems with the deck in general.
The deck doesn't have a good curve. Sure, we can do a lot of powerful stuff, but there are several awkward card sequences. Some lead us to skip turns in protecting ourselves with counterspells, or be forced to live a few turns with dead cards on hand. Neither of those options are particularly desirable. Nonetheless, we need the effects offered by those cards. We're not hitting Wurmcoil Engine mana in a timely manner without some form of acceleration, be it Talisman of Dominance or Tron lands. Playing with Tron lands alone is not an option without becoming a hard control deck, and at that, UWR and Esper is just better. We're a control deck with a combo finish, similar to how UR twin and the late Melira pod decks are midrange decks with combo finishes. For this deck to work at its best we need to either perfect its control-combo tendencies. or to go in a different direction entirely.
Among the discussions in this thread are the one about cutting Talismans, and another about whether to run Fabricate. I believer both of these discussions are based in problems with the mana curve. Talismans are awkward. Either you play them turn two, or risk that they're stuck in your hand for a while. Against some decks we simply take them out after side to avoid the problem, but they've already cost us some value in game one. They even put some pressure on the sideboard to fill the open slots well. We can't afford to not run any ramp though, so we mostly live with it.
Running Fabricate is also something you can partially blame on the mana. Frequently you'll be forced into a situation where you have to cast something board impacting no later than next turn. The 2/2 from a Treasure Mage won't do until you've hit the required 6 mana for a Wurmcoil Engine. Spending 3 mana this turn, and 5 on your next for a Batterskull is far more appealing in many situations. There are several ways to get in this situation, but one of them is not having enough countermagic, or having to tap out for something else during an earlier turn.
I believe I've found the solution to a couple of these problems. Run Wayfarer's Bauble instead of Talisman of Dominance. Even doing a straight replacement, with no other changes I noticed I was curving out better. Despite spending more mana overall, having a one-drop did a lot for the sequencing of the deck.
Consider a couple of sample hands.
-Island
-Tower
-Wayfarer's Bauble or Talisman
-Remand
-Repeal
-Thirst
-Sundering Titan
This is a two lander, not uncommon, in fact it happens about 25% of the time when running 23 lands. More if we account for the inevitable 1 land hands you have to mulligan. So, if you're playing with Talismans there is no turn one play. on turn two you'll draw nonland 60% of the time, and you get a hard choice if you miss. Play the Talisman, or keep up countermana. If you keep up countermana, AND counter/bounce something you've barely passed 55% that you'll hit your third land drop. If they don't cast something, you're likely in bad shape. Having to face the same choice again next turn. On the other hand if you had cast a turn 1 Bauble, you have a real choice. Counter your opponent's 2 drop, or ramp. However this time you get to decide AFTER you've seen what your opponent wants to cast, which can make all the difference in the world.
This time we got 3 lands. We can keep up a counterspell turn two and even turn 3! This should work out great! When playing with the talisman you'd play land and pass the first two turns, countering your opponent's two or three drop depending on who is on the play. The scrying from Condescend sets up a good mix of cards on the top of your library. You would normally play your Talisman turn 3 to hold up condescend for 1, rather than risk the talisman is stuck in your hand for longer. but here's where it can go wrong. Your opponent played another one drop or two drop? Cleverly playing around your condescend! this isn't that uncommon really. There are several decks that allow them to know your hand, and there are cases where playing around Condescend has little downside. In the example we don't have anything going ourselves yet, and there's a threat on the table. Not a good situation to be in, but manageable depending on what else you and they have. We can slow them down by repealing stuff, but from now they'll always be one card ahead unless we do something special. Had you played Bauble instead this situation would have been avoided. Bauble turn 1. Counter turn 2, and counter turn 2. Your opponent have no way to get past your countermagic with a two-drop, and as soon as he takes a turn off, or casts something you don't care too much about you can crack the bauble.
Another situation for this same hand. With Talisman in hand you keep up mana turn 2 to counter, he does nothing, except playing another fetch. Turn 3, you cast your Talisman and he counters! Now you're in trouble, he can resolve anything he wants on his next turn. He cycled a remand for value, which is now in the grave for easy use with Snapcaster Mage, and any plans we had goes out the window. On the other hand if we had played a turn 1 Bauble we could have waited until the end of his turn to crack it.
In addition to the situations mentioned above the blue source from Talisman is safer, it can't be destroyed by your opponents' Abrupt Decays, Ancient Grudges and Nature's Claims. Those Abrupt Decays in particular will frequently find their ways to talismans, merely because there are no other targets. These interactions are far more relevant than the few cases where you're prevented from searching your deck by a hatebear. It doesn't even cost life to get colored mana from the basic!
If anyone has any thoughts about the running Wayfarer's Bauble I'd love to hear about it.
-----------------
The following is the deck I'm currently playing online, and I feel like I've had some success with it in dailies. Picture here
I've tuned the deck somewhat to capitalize on the Wayfarer's Bauble, playing two Snapcaster Mages and a Telling Time to keep countermagic up a bit longer. I'm running Fabricate over Treasure Mage because I find myself frequently wanting Oblivion Stone and Batterskull early. Not to mention that I can recast them with Snapcaster Mage when I reach the late-game. I am a bit light on searching, but when playing Bauble, Telling Time, and Snapcaster I find that I can get pretty deep in the library without explicit searching.
Why do people run Minamo, School at Water's Edge? Just curious is all. Are there any even any other legendary permanents? Or is it just another blue, non-island?
As far as I know I'm the only one running it. I figure you picket it up when I played against Shoktroopa on the stream yesterday in round 2.
I have only one reason for running Minamo, School at Water's Edge, and that's to untap Academy Ruins. So far I haven't noticed its inclusion impacting the deck negatively, as it enters untapped, but it has a distinct advantage of allowing me to activate Academy Ruins twice in one turn.
Why is tapping Academy Ruins twice in one turn good? Well, it works with another card I'm testing at the same time, Conjurer's Bauble. The bauble lets me bring back cards from the graveyard into the deck, at an admittedly slow pace. It does however have some utility in protecting cards in the deck. There is no longer a need to run Crucible of Worlds, as lands(notably Academy Ruins) can be put back into the deck by the bauble. However the bauble alone doesn't allow for land destruction with Tectonic Edge each turn. Unless you can put an artifact on top twice in one turn that is. One to put the bauble on top, one for Expedition Map, or other artifact. Also if you consciously put Thirst for Knowledge on the bottom of the deck throughout the game with spare mana the lategame improves a bit. This somewhat emulates the effect of Elixir of Immortality from UW control decks last standard rotation, without being a dead draw.
[..] What's your distribution of Azorius Charm and Disperse and, if you run both, what did you take out to fit Disperse?
My mainboard is pretty close to the list William Jensen ran at GP Dallas. In that list I'm replacing Ratchet Bomb for it. Since both are useful in keeping the Elixir safe.
For reference, here's my current list. I'm not too sure about the sideboard as I'm testing out different things.
Just to make sure I understand this right: You acivate Elixir of Immortality, then with its activated ability on the stack, you Disperse it back to your hand, and then "You gain 5 life. Shuffle Elixir of Immortality and your graveyard into their owner's library." resolves? And then you gain five life and the second part of the effect does not happen? Or you still shuffle the graveyard into your library (but not Elixir of Immortality, obviously).
You play it like that, yeah. I can't remember which rule it was, but whenever something resolves it tries to do as much as possible. Even though the Elixir is not on the table anymore you still shuffle in the graveyard and gain the life. Final results, Elixir in hand, empty graveyard and +5 life. In effect turning the Disperse into a 2nd Elixir.
The same trick works with Trading post, where you can sacrifice the Elixir it in response to it's ability and draw a card off of it.
Agnara, the planeswalker and legendary rule is no longer valid since Theros.
Sure it is, you exile their Thassa/Jace early in the game. When they cast another one you have the option to bounce your Sphere. They now have two of the same permanent on the table and has to chose one of them. You then recast the Sphere on the other (or something else)
Interested in this idea about Disperse, could you elaborate on your experiences with it please?
Well, you could say it does much the same as Azorious Charm, it does plenty of things decently, and it's very rarely going to rot in your hand for long, but when it does, it generally means you're far enough ahead to not need it anyway.
It slows down aggressive opponents, even if they're playing creatures that are hard to deal with like Blood Baron or Stormbreath Dragon. Notably it allows you to tap down to two mana for a draw spell, without risking them resolving anything too dangerous. This makes plays like turn 5 divination, or -2ing a Jace on turn 6 relatively safe.
Against Nykthos it keeps a permanent off the table, disrupting the curve of several Devotion decks. Versus other control decks you can get a bunch of value out of it by bouncing their Detention Spheres and getting your Jace back. You can even bounce your own Sphere to kill one of theirs with the Planeswalker Uniqueness Rule, or a Thassa in Monoblue. Talking about monoblue. Are they attacking you for with everything but their Master of the Waves to avoid Charm? No problem, you had an answer they they can't even play around effectively
So far I can remember coming across the following tricks.
- Bounce a detention Sphere
-- Your own to get additional value out of other cards, or as a kill spell vs planeswalkers or legendaries.
-- An opponent's, allowing you to draw from Jace or activate Elixir. Even if they recast it right away you got a card of value out of that.
--The 'Fiend Hunter' trick effectively makes it a 5 mana Maelstorm Pulse.
- Bounce a planeswalker
-- Your own to make attacking harder, or gain extra value from Jace.
-- An opponent's for temporary value, or for countering when replayed.
- Bounce a creature
-- Tempo
-- Creatures with protection or time sensitivity. Blood Baron, Stormbreath Dragon, Pack Rat.
-- Temporarily deal with creatures with activated abilities or static abilities, like Master of Waves, Erebos, Voyaging Satyr and Xathrid Necromancer.
- Bounce your own Elixir. 5 extra life, which can be a lot. You also gain and the ability to activate it again soon after, for instance if you want to recast a Sphinx's your next turn, and need to do so repeatedly.
- Mess with devotion. Prevent your opponent from curving out, or keep a god active.
- Keep an Ætherling from killing you. 5 bounce spells in the deck plus draw and lifegain makes it really hard to lose if you've put down a decent amount of land.
In short, there is rarely a board state where you can't get any value out of it
I'd never advice to run more than 2 Quicken, though - but I wouldn't want to miss those two copies either (in the end it's also partly just personal taste, I guess).
I've found that it's doable to run more in versions of the deck running 4 Divination, and a single wincon, by cutting a Plains. With that configuration you draw enough to rarely miss a land drop, but forgo the ability to run Celestial Flare comfortably.
About having to run multiple win-cons while running Elixir. I don't think that's necessary as long as you have a way to get your Elixir back from Detention Spheres and such. I've seen people running Ratchet Bombs, but those seem too slow and I've taken to running a single Disperse.
Disperse, as opposed to Cyclonic Rift, has a lot of nice interactions with our deck. Most of them in some way exploiting the stack. For instance you can return a Detention Sphere before playing Verdict, or do the 'Fiend Hunter' trick where you return it before the exiling resolves, which would keep both cards in hand/graveyard for retrieval with Elixir. Cyclonic Rift has the advantage of overload, but at 7 mana I think that comes too late to be worth not being able to target your own permanents.
I've barely done any testing but the card might find a home in decks running heavy discard and miracles. Bonfire of the Damned has a CMC of 1, and Rakdos's Return is at 2. Both of those cards can set up 2 for 1 situations, and you get to play them before your opponent can empty their hand. Heck, even mind rot will help keep their hand empty.
Once you got them to zero cards you could run some combination of Trading Post and Scroll of Griselbrand to keep their hand empty. Scroll of Griselbrand offers instant discard so if your opponent draws something you don't like from the duskmantle you can force him to discard it without a chance to play it, or once you've emptied his hand you can prevent him from drawing anything on his draw step.
Lumberknot isn't as good as you think because it requires far more work to be good. A geist can attack once on turn 4, and even if it's blocked it will get through for 4 damage. The lumberknot on the other hand, comes down a turn later (if you were lucky enough to draw enough land). Can't attack for for relevant amounts of damage right away (1 vs 6 assuming no blocks). Not to mention that the deck isn't good at getting stuff killed, we can tap down stuff and exile, but to kill stuff there are precious few options outside of direct creature combat, something the lumberknot does badly the turns it hits the table.
I don't deny any of the advantages from Strangleroot, the problem is just that that single extra power is far more powerful in this deck than for most decks. The damage output when going for turn 4 kills actually go down, rather than up when factoring in double strike. And if you aren't going for a t4 kill, the value of vigilance is nonzero.
Suppose we have just three cards in hand + whatever mana we need. A Brushstrider a silverblade paladin, and rancor/charm/Slayers' Stronghold/Etheral armor+random enchant. Anything that gives about 2 power.
T2: Brushstrider
T3: Silverblade (48%/52% chance to have available), bonds. Attacks for 6.
T4: Silverblade and Brushstrider deals lethal with ONE or more buffs.
Versus this:
T2: Knight of glory
T3: Silverblade. Attacks for 6.
T4: Silverblade and Knight of Glory Deals lethal With TWO or more buffs
And this:
T2: Strangleroot. Attacks for 2
T3: Silverblade. Attacks for 4.
T4: Silverblade and Strangleroot deals lethal with TWO pr more buffs
Or This:
T1: Dryad
T2: Attacks for 2
T3: Silverblade. Attacks for 4.
T4: Silverblade and Dryad deals lethal with TWO or more buffs
For every creature your opponent has blocking you need an additional card to deal lethal through it, more if you don't gain trample from any of them.
As for counters. The problem isn't that it's bad to put counters on the Strangleroot, it's that the only time it's beneficial to do so (relative to a Brushstrider), is after it has died. If something has stayed long enough on the board to die and become useful again, Vigilance is likely to have had an effect already.
A combination of vigilance and First strike/double strike on a 3 power creature is great, it prevents (almost) all creatures without evasion from attacking back. 2 power on the other hand forces you to trade with for instance Tragtusks, Centaur Healers and Sublime Archangels. For 3 power the jump to 4 is also shorter. A lone Ethereal Armor can then prevent profitable blocks from Restoration Angels and Loxodon Smiters.
My stance is that Strangleroot Geists are awesome against decks that run sweepers, or heavy removal where I simply have to outlast it (rather than rely on The knight's Protection from Black, or The Loxodon's 4 toughness) and/or against decks where haste is needed in the early game where I don't have Slayers' Stronghold. In cases where I want a somewhat reliable early kill Brushstrider wins by frequently requiring a card less to deal lethal. If the Brushstrider needs a card less to win, why would the Strangleroot's ability to survive my opponent expending a card be an improvement?
---
I tried out the wolfbitten captive earlier, it was decent, but I had problems using the ability as the deck likes to tap out in the early turns.
Strangleroot is nice, but it has that big problem of striking for two instead of three the first time it hits the board. Not dealing a couple of extra damage during the first few turns (where I wont always have double green) will surprisingly often prevent me from getting my opponent down to combo-range on turn 3.
It has far less synergy with the rest of the deck than that of the Brushstrider. Ajani can't put counters, no reliable turn 4 kill with Silverblade, trampling into a trade with Rancor yields less damage, and so on. The off chance of a relevant vigilance creature is greater than extra protection against removal, against most decks.
It does however earn its spot in the sideboard by a fair margin, where I side it in against control and pingers.
I've just made a primer for a similar deck here. It's a Naya deck that is far more agressive, but it uses the base enchantment package.The ideas for it may be relevant for the bant version as well.
What is Naya Ethereal Aggro?
Naya Ethereal armor is an aggressive deck that utilizes Rancor, Ethereal armor and double strikers to outrace your opponent. The deck utilizes a large amount of synergies to build up combinations that are both hard to profitably interact with on the board and while at and at the same time creating board states that must be answered quickly.
How does it play?
The early game consists of putting together a large threat as early as possible, and force your opponent to deal with it. When your opponent runs out of removal or taps out, you can use power increasing cards of different sorts to deal damage equal to huge chunks of your opponent's health.
Likely plays include the following:
T2: Brushstrider / knight of glory
T3: Silverblade paladin
T4: Swing for lethal helped by power boosting instants and auras
T2: Fencing ace
T3: <One or more auras> => swing for 6+ (this sequence also has a chance of being a turn 3 kill)
Ethereal Armor should normally not be played, unless playing it threatens lethal, or would guarantees you some amount of extra damage the turn you play it.
Card evaluations:
Brushstrider - The 3/1 body is quite fragile, but it expands the range of likely turn 4 kills by quite a lot. The vigilance is great when you pair it with Silverblade Paladin for Double strike or put Ethereal armor on it for first strike, making it a great defender while still attacking for large amounts every turn.
Fencing Ace - Awesome card for your auras. With a rancor, or even just an Exalted knight of Glory on the table you can deal decent damage starting on turn 3.
Silverblade Paladin - This card is best friends with Brushstrider, it helps the Brushstrider get through for decent damage or increase the damage potential of your other creatures, and by extention the value of the auras attached to them. It's a decent play even when paired with a fencing ace.
Knight of Glory - A decent card that pulls its weight against most decks with its double strike synergy. It hoses any deck running black removal, and can be a safe target for enchantments against said decks.
Nearheath Pilgrim - A lifesafer against many of the aggressive decks. Usually sided out against slower decks, as the lifegain is not always relevant.
Selesnya Charm - All-Star that gives trample and +2/+2 to deal lethal out of the blue, remove big creatures or function as another body. Save creatures, surprise bonding, removal. This card does it all -at instant speed
Faith's Shield - Protection for your enchanted creatures. Most of the cards you worry about aren't white or green, or is dual colored, so little need to worry about detaching your auras.
Ajani, Caller of the Pride - The counters work great on your Fencing Ace or other double strikers, while the -3 ability will help you get through for lethal, worthwhile even if your creature already had double strike.
Slayers' Stronghold - Gives your topdecks haste, and turns your double strikers into monsters. Perfect way to get rid of excess mana
Rancor - you know this card, and none of your creatures will complain if you cast it on them
Ethereal Armor - Potential to increase power and toughness by a lot. buffed by all your auras. Can be used as an aggressive boost, or to stop your opponent from attacking, sometimes both. Combined with trample it can work as a powerful finisher.
Abundant Growth - Cheap, fixes mana, cantrips and increases aura count. Paying G to play it is worth it by a fair margin.
Other
I've been tweaking this deck ever since rotation. But recently splashed red making a Naya version to get access to the Slayers' Stronghold, which increased its power by a decent margin. I've been having some success with it against many of the common T1 decks. The style of the deck is somewhat similar to the aggro version of the Bant Enchant deck, but gives up hexproof to gain increased potential for early kills.
I hope you like the deck and I'm open to suggestions for changes.
Mindslavering someone and casting Gifts in their turn closes out the game pretty well too.
Edit: Didn't see lucashungaro's post when I made mine
Look at turn 3 in your example. 3 mana open on turn 3 is highly significant. It sets us up for a Thirst for Knowledge and improves 5 out of our 13 counters (Condescend and Spell Burst). Sure, there are times when you don't activate the bauble for a few turns, but these are the same turns were it was unsafe to cast a talisman. Except with the talisman you were working with less information. Edit3: Repealing something with CMC 2 for counter the following turn is also pretty valuable. If you're planning on remanding you'll even have time to crack the bauble.
Edit2:
As for the tempo loss when you draw the bauble late. How often were you glad to have drawn a Talisman late anyway? The bauble pitches to Thirst just as well.
I agree that the goal of the deck isn't to keep countermagic up all the time, but we play enough countermagic to have hands with multiple pieces of countermagic on hand at the same time. In those cases it would definitively be advantageous if you could keep up a counter each turn if you wanted.
I returned to the deck a while ago, after the pod bannings, and have been doing quite a bit of experimenting with it during the last couple of weeks. I posted a couple of pages back about Conjurer's Bauble, which in the end didn't pan out, but did give some insight into the problems with the deck in general.
The deck doesn't have a good curve. Sure, we can do a lot of powerful stuff, but there are several awkward card sequences. Some lead us to skip turns in protecting ourselves with counterspells, or be forced to live a few turns with dead cards on hand. Neither of those options are particularly desirable. Nonetheless, we need the effects offered by those cards. We're not hitting Wurmcoil Engine mana in a timely manner without some form of acceleration, be it Talisman of Dominance or Tron lands. Playing with Tron lands alone is not an option without becoming a hard control deck, and at that, UWR and Esper is just better. We're a control deck with a combo finish, similar to how UR twin and the late Melira pod decks are midrange decks with combo finishes. For this deck to work at its best we need to either perfect its control-combo tendencies. or to go in a different direction entirely.
Among the discussions in this thread are the one about cutting Talismans, and another about whether to run Fabricate. I believer both of these discussions are based in problems with the mana curve. Talismans are awkward. Either you play them turn two, or risk that they're stuck in your hand for a while. Against some decks we simply take them out after side to avoid the problem, but they've already cost us some value in game one. They even put some pressure on the sideboard to fill the open slots well. We can't afford to not run any ramp though, so we mostly live with it.
Running Fabricate is also something you can partially blame on the mana. Frequently you'll be forced into a situation where you have to cast something board impacting no later than next turn. The 2/2 from a Treasure Mage won't do until you've hit the required 6 mana for a Wurmcoil Engine. Spending 3 mana this turn, and 5 on your next for a Batterskull is far more appealing in many situations. There are several ways to get in this situation, but one of them is not having enough countermagic, or having to tap out for something else during an earlier turn.
I believe I've found the solution to a couple of these problems. Run Wayfarer's Bauble instead of Talisman of Dominance. Even doing a straight replacement, with no other changes I noticed I was curving out better. Despite spending more mana overall, having a one-drop did a lot for the sequencing of the deck.
Consider a couple of sample hands.
-Island
-Tower
-Wayfarer's Bauble or Talisman
-Remand
-Repeal
-Thirst
-Sundering Titan
This is a two lander, not uncommon, in fact it happens about 25% of the time when running 23 lands. More if we account for the inevitable 1 land hands you have to mulligan. So, if you're playing with Talismans there is no turn one play. on turn two you'll draw nonland 60% of the time, and you get a hard choice if you miss. Play the Talisman, or keep up countermana. If you keep up countermana, AND counter/bounce something you've barely passed 55% that you'll hit your third land drop. If they don't cast something, you're likely in bad shape. Having to face the same choice again next turn. On the other hand if you had cast a turn 1 Bauble, you have a real choice. Counter your opponent's 2 drop, or ramp. However this time you get to decide AFTER you've seen what your opponent wants to cast, which can make all the difference in the world.
Another sample hand.
-Island
-Tower
-Mine
-Wayfarer's Bauble/Talisman
-Condescend
-Condescend
-Repeal
This time we got 3 lands. We can keep up a counterspell turn two and even turn 3! This should work out great! When playing with the talisman you'd play land and pass the first two turns, countering your opponent's two or three drop depending on who is on the play. The scrying from Condescend sets up a good mix of cards on the top of your library. You would normally play your Talisman turn 3 to hold up condescend for 1, rather than risk the talisman is stuck in your hand for longer. but here's where it can go wrong. Your opponent played another one drop or two drop? Cleverly playing around your condescend! this isn't that uncommon really. There are several decks that allow them to know your hand, and there are cases where playing around Condescend has little downside. In the example we don't have anything going ourselves yet, and there's a threat on the table. Not a good situation to be in, but manageable depending on what else you and they have. We can slow them down by repealing stuff, but from now they'll always be one card ahead unless we do something special. Had you played Bauble instead this situation would have been avoided. Bauble turn 1. Counter turn 2, and counter turn 2. Your opponent have no way to get past your countermagic with a two-drop, and as soon as he takes a turn off, or casts something you don't care too much about you can crack the bauble.
Another situation for this same hand. With Talisman in hand you keep up mana turn 2 to counter, he does nothing, except playing another fetch. Turn 3, you cast your Talisman and he counters! Now you're in trouble, he can resolve anything he wants on his next turn. He cycled a remand for value, which is now in the grave for easy use with Snapcaster Mage, and any plans we had goes out the window. On the other hand if we had played a turn 1 Bauble we could have waited until the end of his turn to crack it.
In addition to the situations mentioned above the blue source from Talisman is safer, it can't be destroyed by your opponents' Abrupt Decays, Ancient Grudges and Nature's Claims. Those Abrupt Decays in particular will frequently find their ways to talismans, merely because there are no other targets. These interactions are far more relevant than the few cases where you're prevented from searching your deck by a hatebear. It doesn't even cost life to get colored mana from the basic!
If anyone has any thoughts about the running Wayfarer's Bauble I'd love to hear about it.
-----------------
The following is the deck I'm currently playing online, and I feel like I've had some success with it in dailies. Picture here
7 Island
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Academy Ruins
Interactive spells
4 Condescend
4 Remand
1 Spell Burst
4 Repeal
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Batterskull
1 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Snapcaster Mage
Draw/tutor spells
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Fabricate
1 Telling Time
Artifacts
4 Expedition Map
3 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion Stone
3 Dismember
2 Squelch
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Peace Strider
1 Bottle Gnomes
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Hurkyl's Recall
I've tuned the deck somewhat to capitalize on the Wayfarer's Bauble, playing two Snapcaster Mages and a Telling Time to keep countermagic up a bit longer. I'm running Fabricate over Treasure Mage because I find myself frequently wanting Oblivion Stone and Batterskull early. Not to mention that I can recast them with Snapcaster Mage when I reach the late-game. I am a bit light on searching, but when playing Bauble, Telling Time, and Snapcaster I find that I can get pretty deep in the library without explicit searching.
Edit: Some words were missing.
As far as I know I'm the only one running it. I figure you picket it up when I played against Shoktroopa on the stream yesterday in round 2.
I have only one reason for running Minamo, School at Water's Edge, and that's to untap Academy Ruins. So far I haven't noticed its inclusion impacting the deck negatively, as it enters untapped, but it has a distinct advantage of allowing me to activate Academy Ruins twice in one turn.
Why is tapping Academy Ruins twice in one turn good? Well, it works with another card I'm testing at the same time, Conjurer's Bauble. The bauble lets me bring back cards from the graveyard into the deck, at an admittedly slow pace. It does however have some utility in protecting cards in the deck. There is no longer a need to run Crucible of Worlds, as lands(notably Academy Ruins) can be put back into the deck by the bauble. However the bauble alone doesn't allow for land destruction with Tectonic Edge each turn. Unless you can put an artifact on top twice in one turn that is. One to put the bauble on top, one for Expedition Map, or other artifact. Also if you consciously put Thirst for Knowledge on the bottom of the deck throughout the game with spare mana the lategame improves a bit. This somewhat emulates the effect of Elixir of Immortality from UW control decks last standard rotation, without being a dead draw.
My mainboard is pretty close to the list William Jensen ran at GP Dallas. In that list I'm replacing Ratchet Bomb for it. Since both are useful in keeping the Elixir safe.
For reference, here's my current list. I'm not too sure about the sideboard as I'm testing out different things.
4 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Azorious Charm
4 Divination
3 Quicken
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
Counters/answers
4 Detention Sphere
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Dissolve
2 Syncopate
1 Disperse
1 Elspeth
1 Elixir of Immortality
Lands (25!)
8 Island
7 Plains
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorious Charm
2 Mutavault
3 Last Breath
2 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Gainsay
1 Ætherling
1 Frostburn Weird
1 Codex Shredder
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sundering Growth
1 Time Ebb
You play it like that, yeah. I can't remember which rule it was, but whenever something resolves it tries to do as much as possible. Even though the Elixir is not on the table anymore you still shuffle in the graveyard and gain the life. Final results, Elixir in hand, empty graveyard and +5 life. In effect turning the Disperse into a 2nd Elixir.
The same trick works with Trading post, where you can sacrifice the Elixir it in response to it's ability and draw a card off of it.
Sure it is, you exile their Thassa/Jace early in the game. When they cast another one you have the option to bounce your Sphere. They now have two of the same permanent on the table and has to chose one of them. You then recast the Sphere on the other (or something else)
Well, you could say it does much the same as Azorious Charm, it does plenty of things decently, and it's very rarely going to rot in your hand for long, but when it does, it generally means you're far enough ahead to not need it anyway.
It slows down aggressive opponents, even if they're playing creatures that are hard to deal with like Blood Baron or Stormbreath Dragon. Notably it allows you to tap down to two mana for a draw spell, without risking them resolving anything too dangerous. This makes plays like turn 5 divination, or -2ing a Jace on turn 6 relatively safe.
Against Nykthos it keeps a permanent off the table, disrupting the curve of several Devotion decks. Versus other control decks you can get a bunch of value out of it by bouncing their Detention Spheres and getting your Jace back. You can even bounce your own Sphere to kill one of theirs with the Planeswalker Uniqueness Rule, or a Thassa in Monoblue. Talking about monoblue. Are they attacking you for with everything but their Master of the Waves to avoid Charm? No problem, you had an answer they they can't even play around effectively
So far I can remember coming across the following tricks.
- Bounce a detention Sphere
-- Your own to get additional value out of other cards, or as a kill spell vs planeswalkers or legendaries.
-- An opponent's, allowing you to draw from Jace or activate Elixir. Even if they recast it right away you got a card of value out of that.
--The 'Fiend Hunter' trick effectively makes it a 5 mana Maelstorm Pulse.
- Bounce a planeswalker
-- Your own to make attacking harder, or gain extra value from Jace.
-- An opponent's for temporary value, or for countering when replayed.
- Bounce a creature
-- Tempo
-- Creatures with protection or time sensitivity. Blood Baron, Stormbreath Dragon, Pack Rat.
-- Temporarily deal with creatures with activated abilities or static abilities, like Master of Waves, Erebos, Voyaging Satyr and Xathrid Necromancer.
- Bounce your own Elixir. 5 extra life, which can be a lot. You also gain and the ability to activate it again soon after, for instance if you want to recast a Sphinx's your next turn, and need to do so repeatedly.
- Mess with devotion. Prevent your opponent from curving out, or keep a god active.
- Keep an Ætherling from killing you. 5 bounce spells in the deck plus draw and lifegain makes it really hard to lose if you've put down a decent amount of land.
In short, there is rarely a board state where you can't get any value out of it
I've found that it's doable to run more in versions of the deck running 4 Divination, and a single wincon, by cutting a Plains. With that configuration you draw enough to rarely miss a land drop, but forgo the ability to run Celestial Flare comfortably.
About having to run multiple win-cons while running Elixir. I don't think that's necessary as long as you have a way to get your Elixir back from Detention Spheres and such. I've seen people running Ratchet Bombs, but those seem too slow and I've taken to running a single Disperse.
Disperse, as opposed to Cyclonic Rift, has a lot of nice interactions with our deck. Most of them in some way exploiting the stack. For instance you can return a Detention Sphere before playing Verdict, or do the 'Fiend Hunter' trick where you return it before the exiling resolves, which would keep both cards in hand/graveyard for retrieval with Elixir. Cyclonic Rift has the advantage of overload, but at 7 mana I think that comes too late to be worth not being able to target your own permanents.
Once you got them to zero cards you could run some combination of Trading Post and Scroll of Griselbrand to keep their hand empty. Scroll of Griselbrand offers instant discard so if your opponent draws something you don't like from the duskmantle you can force him to discard it without a chance to play it, or once you've emptied his hand you can prevent him from drawing anything on his draw step.
Suppose we have just three cards in hand + whatever mana we need. A Brushstrider a silverblade paladin, and rancor/charm/Slayers' Stronghold/Etheral armor+random enchant. Anything that gives about 2 power.
T2: Brushstrider
T3: Silverblade (48%/52% chance to have available), bonds. Attacks for 6.
T4: Silverblade and Brushstrider deals lethal with ONE or more buffs.
Versus this:
T2: Knight of glory
T3: Silverblade. Attacks for 6.
T4: Silverblade and Knight of Glory Deals lethal With TWO or more buffs
And this:
T2: Strangleroot. Attacks for 2
T3: Silverblade. Attacks for 4.
T4: Silverblade and Strangleroot deals lethal with TWO pr more buffs
Or This:
T1: Dryad
T2: Attacks for 2
T3: Silverblade. Attacks for 4.
T4: Silverblade and Dryad deals lethal with TWO or more buffs
For every creature your opponent has blocking you need an additional card to deal lethal through it, more if you don't gain trample from any of them.
As for counters. The problem isn't that it's bad to put counters on the Strangleroot, it's that the only time it's beneficial to do so (relative to a Brushstrider), is after it has died. If something has stayed long enough on the board to die and become useful again, Vigilance is likely to have had an effect already.
A combination of vigilance and First strike/double strike on a 3 power creature is great, it prevents (almost) all creatures without evasion from attacking back. 2 power on the other hand forces you to trade with for instance Tragtusks, Centaur Healers and Sublime Archangels. For 3 power the jump to 4 is also shorter. A lone Ethereal Armor can then prevent profitable blocks from Restoration Angels and Loxodon Smiters.
My stance is that Strangleroot Geists are awesome against decks that run sweepers, or heavy removal where I simply have to outlast it (rather than rely on The knight's Protection from Black, or The Loxodon's 4 toughness) and/or against decks where haste is needed in the early game where I don't have Slayers' Stronghold. In cases where I want a somewhat reliable early kill Brushstrider wins by frequently requiring a card less to deal lethal. If the Brushstrider needs a card less to win, why would the Strangleroot's ability to survive my opponent expending a card be an improvement?
---
I tried out the wolfbitten captive earlier, it was decent, but I had problems using the ability as the deck likes to tap out in the early turns.
It has far less synergy with the rest of the deck than that of the Brushstrider. Ajani can't put counters, no reliable turn 4 kill with Silverblade, trampling into a trade with Rancor yields less damage, and so on. The off chance of a relevant vigilance creature is greater than extra protection against removal, against most decks.
It does however earn its spot in the sideboard by a fair margin, where I side it in against control and pingers.
Thanks for the interest =)
What is Naya Ethereal Aggro?
Naya Ethereal armor is an aggressive deck that utilizes Rancor, Ethereal armor and double strikers to outrace your opponent. The deck utilizes a large amount of synergies to build up combinations that are both hard to profitably interact with on the board and while at and at the same time creating board states that must be answered quickly.
Current deck (as of March 11th 2013)
3x Brushstrider
3x Fencing Ace
4x Silverblade Paladin
4x Knight of Glory
3x Nearheath Pilgrim
Spells (8)
4x Selesnya Charm
2x Faith's Shield
2x Boros Charm
Planeswalkers (2)
2x Ajani, Caller of the Pride
3x Plains
2x Rootbound Crag
2x Slayers' Stronghold
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden
2x Sacred Foundry
4x Stomping Ground
Enchantments (12)
4x Rancor
4x Ethereal Armor
4x Abundant Growth
3x Ground Seal
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Sigarda, Host of Herons
3x Boros Reckoner
1x Boros Charm
1x Ray of Revelation
Older versions:
Current deck (as of December 8th)
3x Brushstrider
4x Fencing Ace
4x Silverblade Paladin
3x Knight of Glory
3x Nearheath Pilgrim
Spells (6)
4x Selesnya Charm
2x Faith's Shield
Planeswalkers (3)
3x Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Lands (22)
2x Clifftop Retreat
3x Forest
3x Plains
3x Rootbound Crag
3x Slayers' Stronghold
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden
4x Rancor
4x Ethereal Armor
4x Abundant Growth
2x Ground Seal
4x Loxodon Smiter
2x Sigarda, Host of Herons
4x Strangleroot Geist
3x Triumph of Ferocity
How does it play?
The early game consists of putting together a large threat as early as possible, and force your opponent to deal with it. When your opponent runs out of removal or taps out, you can use power increasing cards of different sorts to deal damage equal to huge chunks of your opponent's health.
Likely plays include the following:
T2: Brushstrider / knight of glory
T3: Silverblade paladin
T4: Swing for lethal helped by power boosting instants and auras
T2: Fencing ace
T3: <One or more auras> => swing for 6+ (this sequence also has a chance of being a turn 3 kill)
Ethereal Armor should normally not be played, unless playing it threatens lethal, or would guarantees you some amount of extra damage the turn you play it.
Card evaluations:
Fencing Ace - Awesome card for your auras. With a rancor, or even just an Exalted knight of Glory on the table you can deal decent damage starting on turn 3.
Silverblade Paladin - This card is best friends with Brushstrider, it helps the Brushstrider get through for decent damage or increase the damage potential of your other creatures, and by extention the value of the auras attached to them. It's a decent play even when paired with a fencing ace.
Knight of Glory - A decent card that pulls its weight against most decks with its double strike synergy. It hoses any deck running black removal, and can be a safe target for enchantments against said decks.
Nearheath Pilgrim - A lifesafer against many of the aggressive decks. Usually sided out against slower decks, as the lifegain is not always relevant.
Selesnya Charm - All-Star that gives trample and +2/+2 to deal lethal out of the blue, remove big creatures or function as another body. Save creatures, surprise bonding, removal. This card does it all -at instant speed
Faith's Shield - Protection for your enchanted creatures. Most of the cards you worry about aren't white or green, or is dual colored, so little need to worry about detaching your auras.
Ajani, Caller of the Pride - The counters work great on your Fencing Ace or other double strikers, while the -3 ability will help you get through for lethal, worthwhile even if your creature already had double strike.
Slayers' Stronghold - Gives your topdecks haste, and turns your double strikers into monsters. Perfect way to get rid of excess mana
Rancor - you know this card, and none of your creatures will complain if you cast it on them
Ethereal Armor - Potential to increase power and toughness by a lot. buffed by all your auras. Can be used as an aggressive boost, or to stop your opponent from attacking, sometimes both. Combined with trample it can work as a powerful finisher.
Abundant Growth - Cheap, fixes mana, cantrips and increases aura count. Paying G to play it is worth it by a fair margin.
Other
I've been tweaking this deck ever since rotation. But recently splashed red making a Naya version to get access to the Slayers' Stronghold, which increased its power by a decent margin. I've been having some success with it against many of the common T1 decks. The style of the deck is somewhat similar to the aggro version of the Bant Enchant deck, but gives up hexproof to gain increased potential for early kills.
I hope you like the deck and I'm open to suggestions for changes.
Leeched images removed. ~parinoid