the deck idea was from BNG and currently after JOU release and PT JOU, it seemed that everyone i know is asking me to add 4x courser of kruphix + 4x sylvan caryatid to the formula.
format is much faster on the aggro backend and i find it a valid reason.
Seeing the changes and shifts in card choices, i would say a mid-range with polukranos, courser, with MB bow of nylea seemed to be the way to go.
tested thoughtseize and got into my own conclusion of the cards now in the format.
there is too much quality in the topdecks now like shards block when there js bant mythic, that a thoughtseize will just lose to subsequent topdecks of bombs.
a thrrat is needed to pressure the opponent to overcommit before u could use the right removal on the right creature.
also find myself losing too many games to mutavault. its either me playing 2x mutavault or MB pithing needle should i play games day. also declare the deck unplayable until post rotation with less creature and card quality.
currently my sideboard have 2 copies of bow in SB also. alternatives include courser of kruphix and scavenging ooze. (elixir, which was mentioned earlier, works too.)
They worked also, but im bent to keep my creature count to zero. blanking 4=8 maindeck removal is really powerful. creatures could be a plan B though. but the current top decks and meta doesnt allow as the overflow of creature quality stops alot of deck playing tempo at all.
Went to other shops FNM and saw other iterations of this deck, which includes more jaces, MB thoughtseize which was debatable awesome and aetherling, lastly even underworld connections.
4 thoughtseize to the main, removing 1x syncopate, 1x dimir charm (recent test subject), 2nd ratchet bomb (another test) and 1 opportunity.
Guess it will be the list to be going for a games day.
thirddegree - we would prefer to cast divination reliably instead of screwing the color up, adding more shocks hurts. ditto for psychic strikes. scry 1 more land away is always more powerful than milling 1-2 cards. we dont have snapcaster mages to synergise the mill CA.
1. Keyrune would be kinky stuff. could worth a try. but i dont need color fixing and i dont need ramp into 5 drop since 10 lands come into play tapped. no point ramping
2. Lifebane could replace scavenging ooze in the sides. meta call i would say.
Since this is going to be a grindy game, you will probably need to return a draw spell or a Planeswalker to your hand, or shuffle your removal spells back to your library.
Instead of Thassa, then one Rogue's Passage. Unblockable assassins are winconish.
1. exilir and codex doable, but i would prefer the density of removal on hand immediately. 10 planeswalkers vs 4 hero's downfall. usually some of them stays.
2. i tried 2x mutavault in main but the color intensity cannot support mutavaults in any numbers. also, vraska is more of a vindicate than a wincon.
In your build Dimir Charm would be better than Golgari since you have Bile Blight and abrupt decay. The main enchantment you'd have to worry about is Detention Sphere. Plus Dimir charm destroys Nightveil Specter, gray merchant, etc...
I could see Thassa being AMAZING in this deck. She can make Vraskas Assassin's unblockable and thins your draws. I'd like her better than Ashiok.
I'd also think that you could replace one opportunity with Urban Evolution
1. Have tested whelming wave in the beta of this deck. sorry it doesnt work against any board.
2. have had 8 main board removals against creatures with hero's downfall, abrupt decay dealing with respective threats with a miser bile blight. i might swap bile blight away for dimir charm. thanks
3. Thassa for card fixing is fine, but what i lack of is wincondition or board presence. aggro decks will go for his head on burn spells and attacks instead of me. Thassa will just sit there and devotion will never work on this deck. big issue.
4. glad to hear any suggestions to replace opportunities. 2x is way too much usually. casting 1 is usually enough to seal the CA.
First of all, thanks all that gave me the valuable advices.
have to agree that doom blade and ultimate price trolled me more than they helped me.
Cant find an aetherling by evening and i prefer more far//away than dimir charm, since all that i wanna counter are instants (hero's downfall, the counterspells, sphinx revelation, white fated, etc.) and 2 power creatures i would might as well use far//away for value as kiora or vraska can lead to overcommited boards.
Still quite skeptical about mainboarding creatures as full control decks tend to edge out against typical decks due to the blanking of 4-8 removals mainboarded typically in T2 decks. as long as game 1 they draw 2 creature removals, is as good as me thoughtseizing them twice.
i wouldnt up bile blight as it is the sole card that cannot deal with brimaz which is in 50% of the meta, be it sideboard or mainboard.
Drown in sorrow is cut 1 and replace 1 by far//away or syncopate. i decided to take the risk that hoping my opponent wouldnt turn 1 1-drop and curve out from there. there is too much scrylands going around.
ROUND 1 - AGAINST UW DEVOTION (EPHARA, ELSPETH, HELIOD)
Game 1
Usually i play a long game, proceed with first few turns scryland and opponent doing the same. he started laying threats and i started decaying, downfall the threats at end step and sticking planeswalkers thereafter. elspeth did came out but end step golgari charm follow by vraksa cleared the way. ashiok milled opponent out and kiora reaching ulti, opponent conceded.
Game 2
he drew smoothly and im unable to deal with elspeth and brimaz on turn 3 and 6 respectively, scooped up early.
Game 3
Draw go on both sides till turn 4 and he laid brimaz, countered and turn 5 lay boarded in jace, activate for zero loyalty. he responds on his main phase with pithing needle. end step decay away the needle and mill another 10. he followed up 2 consecutive main phase with detention sphere. i had 1 decay and 1 golgari charm in hand. 40 cards milled in total.
Game 1
He had no 1 drop, which effectively made me advantageous with a handful of decay, far//away, and downfall. turn 2 endstep killed a 2 drop and turn 3 ashiok. subsequent threat all dealt with and i stick both kiora and vraksa. opponent conceded.
Game 2
He started furiously with turn 1 cackler and turn 2 ash zealot. i took both on turn 2 and he titan strength 1 of them. he casted a 1 drop on 2nd main phase. 3rd turn i swept with boarded in drown in sorrow and procede to lay planeswalkers by planeswalkers. all threat dealt with by the removals and i got burn to left 7 life. eventually refilled my hand via divination and opportunity and opponent conceded with me having 2 dissolve, 1 syncopate in hand.
Opponent is the boss of the LGS and once a national champion.
Game 1
i curved out with turn 2 removal to precinct captain and turn 3 ashiok, turn 4 kiora, turn 5 vraska and am on a unbeatable board position.
but made a grave mistake. i casted a obzedat via ashiok and proceed to exile it on the end step. it came back UNDER OPPONENTS CONTROL...
Proceed to demolish my board of planeswalkers. its like stabbing myself on a deathmatch.
Game 2
I curved out again, thought i got thoughtseize twice and got kiora and far//away out of my hand. scrylands help to fix threats back. removal endstep follow by planeswalkers seal the deal.
Game 3
Tight one with both sides draw-go for first few turns. opponent proceed to cast spear of heliod on 3rd, imposing sovereign on the 4th. with me a ashiok on the 3rd, kiora on my 4th. i dealt with imposing sovereign and spear with the removals and eventually kiora got beat down by blood baron . i have only gaze of granite in hand. proceed to clear the board with me and opponent topdecking. he topdecked a blood baron and me 1 swamp and forest.
i spend 4-5 years, to built 43-lands from scratch. it all started with 4 manabonds, i still vividly remember. its was before the boom and i wasnt quite affected by that and finished the deck within a thousand.
3 temple of mystery
2 temple of abandon
4 wooded foothills
2 forest
2 mountain
4 yavimaya coast
2 shivan reef
4 heir of the wilds
2 rattleclaw mystic
4 boon satyr
4 savage knuckleblade
4 ashcloud pheonix
4 goblin rabblemaster
4 temur charm
3 lightning strike
3 crater's claw
1 magma jet
1 sarkhan, dragonspeaker
2 mindswipe
3 destructive revelry
3 disdainful stroke
1 sarkhan, dragonspeaker
3 magma spray
1 arc lightning
1 magma jet
1 surrak, dragonclaw
holding multiple 3-0s at fnms and top 4 splits at GPTs.
For all's review. =)
the deck idea was from BNG and currently after JOU release and PT JOU, it seemed that everyone i know is asking me to add 4x courser of kruphix + 4x sylvan caryatid to the formula.
format is much faster on the aggro backend and i find it a valid reason.
Seeing the changes and shifts in card choices, i would say a mid-range with polukranos, courser, with MB bow of nylea seemed to be the way to go.
discussion, everyone?
Regards,
T1manabond
turn 2 bramblewood paragon
turn 3 conspire this.
there is too much quality in the topdecks now like shards block when there js bant mythic, that a thoughtseize will just lose to subsequent topdecks of bombs.
a thrrat is needed to pressure the opponent to overcommit before u could use the right removal on the right creature.
also find myself losing too many games to mutavault. its either me playing 2x mutavault or MB pithing needle should i play games day. also declare the deck unplayable until post rotation with less creature and card quality.
They worked also, but im bent to keep my creature count to zero. blanking 4=8 maindeck removal is really powerful. creatures could be a plan B though. but the current top decks and meta doesnt allow as the overflow of creature quality stops alot of deck playing tempo at all.
Went to other shops FNM and saw other iterations of this deck, which includes more jaces, MB thoughtseize which was debatable awesome and aetherling, lastly even underworld connections.
4 thoughtseize to the main, removing 1x syncopate, 1x dimir charm (recent test subject), 2nd ratchet bomb (another test) and 1 opportunity.
Guess it will be the list to be going for a games day.
thirddegree - we would prefer to cast divination reliably instead of screwing the color up, adding more shocks hurts. ditto for psychic strikes. scry 1 more land away is always more powerful than milling 1-2 cards. we dont have snapcaster mages to synergise the mill CA.
discards dont hold much power as it doesnt change board position at all. my removals can deal with 80% of the stuffs.
yup, planeswalkers are the only wincon and currently they are not letting me down at all. all of them had won me a game before.
Game 1 - URW control - won 2-1
Game 2 - UW Heroic - Won 2-0
Game 3 - BW midrange - lost 1-2
Game 4 - RW burn - lost 0-2
1. Keyrune would be kinky stuff. could worth a try. but i dont need color fixing and i dont need ramp into 5 drop since 10 lands come into play tapped. no point ramping
2. Lifebane could replace scavenging ooze in the sides. meta call i would say.
1. exilir and codex doable, but i would prefer the density of removal on hand immediately. 10 planeswalkers vs 4 hero's downfall. usually some of them stays.
2. i tried 2x mutavault in main but the color intensity cannot support mutavaults in any numbers. also, vraska is more of a vindicate than a wincon.
1. Have tested whelming wave in the beta of this deck. sorry it doesnt work against any board.
2. have had 8 main board removals against creatures with hero's downfall, abrupt decay dealing with respective threats with a miser bile blight. i might swap bile blight away for dimir charm. thanks
3. Thassa for card fixing is fine, but what i lack of is wincondition or board presence. aggro decks will go for his head on burn spells and attacks instead of me. Thassa will just sit there and devotion will never work on this deck. big issue.
4. glad to hear any suggestions to replace opportunities. 2x is way too much usually. casting 1 is usually enough to seal the CA.
will report again should i get legit results.
Thank you for your time here. =)
have to agree that doom blade and ultimate price trolled me more than they helped me.
Cant find an aetherling by evening and i prefer more far//away than dimir charm, since all that i wanna counter are instants (hero's downfall, the counterspells, sphinx revelation, white fated, etc.) and 2 power creatures i would might as well use far//away for value as kiora or vraska can lead to overcommited boards.
Still quite skeptical about mainboarding creatures as full control decks tend to edge out against typical decks due to the blanking of 4-8 removals mainboarded typically in T2 decks. as long as game 1 they draw 2 creature removals, is as good as me thoughtseizing them twice.
i wouldnt up bile blight as it is the sole card that cannot deal with brimaz which is in 50% of the meta, be it sideboard or mainboard.
Drown in sorrow is cut 1 and replace 1 by far//away or syncopate. i decided to take the risk that hoping my opponent wouldnt turn 1 1-drop and curve out from there. there is too much scrylands going around.
Revised list on my LGS 8-mans today.
LANDS (25)
SORCERIES (3)
3x divination
INSTANTS (21)
ARTIFACTS (1)
1x ratchet bomb
PLANESWALKERS (10)
SIDEBOARD (15)
3 ROUND SWISS
ROUND 1 - AGAINST UW DEVOTION (EPHARA, ELSPETH, HELIOD)
Game 1
Usually i play a long game, proceed with first few turns scryland and opponent doing the same. he started laying threats and i started decaying, downfall the threats at end step and sticking planeswalkers thereafter. elspeth did came out but end step golgari charm follow by vraksa cleared the way. ashiok milled opponent out and kiora reaching ulti, opponent conceded.
Game 2
he drew smoothly and im unable to deal with elspeth and brimaz on turn 3 and 6 respectively, scooped up early.
Game 3
Draw go on both sides till turn 4 and he laid brimaz, countered and turn 5 lay boarded in jace, activate for zero loyalty. he responds on his main phase with pithing needle. end step decay away the needle and mill another 10. he followed up 2 consecutive main phase with detention sphere. i had 1 decay and 1 golgari charm in hand. 40 cards milled in total.
2-1 WIN
ROUND 2 - AGAINST MONO-RED BEATS (ALL 1-2 DROPS, MADCAP SKILLS, TITAN STRENGTH, BURNS)
Game 1
He had no 1 drop, which effectively made me advantageous with a handful of decay, far//away, and downfall. turn 2 endstep killed a 2 drop and turn 3 ashiok. subsequent threat all dealt with and i stick both kiora and vraksa. opponent conceded.
Game 2
He started furiously with turn 1 cackler and turn 2 ash zealot. i took both on turn 2 and he titan strength 1 of them. he casted a 1 drop on 2nd main phase. 3rd turn i swept with boarded in drown in sorrow and procede to lay planeswalkers by planeswalkers. all threat dealt with by the removals and i got burn to left 7 life. eventually refilled my hand via divination and opportunity and opponent conceded with me having 2 dissolve, 1 syncopate in hand.
2-0 WIN
ROUND 3 - AGAINST ESPER MIDRANGE (OBZEDAT, EPHARA, LYEV SKYKNIGHT, ETC.)
Opponent is the boss of the LGS and once a national champion.
Game 1
i curved out with turn 2 removal to precinct captain and turn 3 ashiok, turn 4 kiora, turn 5 vraska and am on a unbeatable board position.
but made a grave mistake. i casted a obzedat via ashiok and proceed to exile it on the end step. it came back UNDER OPPONENTS CONTROL...
Proceed to demolish my board of planeswalkers. its like stabbing myself on a deathmatch.
Game 2
I curved out again, thought i got thoughtseize twice and got kiora and far//away out of my hand. scrylands help to fix threats back. removal endstep follow by planeswalkers seal the deal.
Game 3
Tight one with both sides draw-go for first few turns. opponent proceed to cast spear of heliod on 3rd, imposing sovereign on the 4th. with me a ashiok on the 3rd, kiora on my 4th. i dealt with imposing sovereign and spear with the removals and eventually kiora got beat down by blood baron . i have only gaze of granite in hand. proceed to clear the board with me and opponent topdecking. he topdecked a blood baron and me 1 swamp and forest.
1-2 LOST
Field Report of the day
tested against mostly control decks. only problem is a resolved elspeth.
need more time against aggro decks.
first time playing standard, please assist to comment
LANDS (25)
SORCERIES (3)
3x divination
INSTANTS (22)
ARTIFACTS (1)
1x ratchet bomb
PLANESWALKERS (10)