I've been having problems lately against jeskai aggro (I'm playing abzan control). Does anyone have any tips/suggestions for this match up? It seems like once they drop Jace they just win unless I get rid of him before he flips and even that is no guarantee because of ojutai's command.
As for the sideboard, I just trimmed a Thoughtseize for 2 Duress so that I'm still able to sideboard smoothly against Mono-Red, but mostly I need answers for Ojutai's Command. That card is a beating, and it's the best card against you. You need to kill Jace early, usually with an Ultimate Price, and then whenever they counter one of your creatures and get back their planeswalker you're so far behind that you can never recover.
On turn 7 in the 6-0 bracket I played against a good player from Rome. In game 3 I had 2 Rhinos, 2 Den Protectors, and a Wingmate Roc in my hand but didn't cast any of them, I just kept drawing and playing lands, waiting for a discard spell. He was doing nothing as well, waiting for me to tap out.
Why odds to get a early Thoughtsize(in metalcrafter's example) aren't for 4 twice the odds when you play 2 ?
Basically each Thoughtseize occurs equally often, but the more you have, the more often they double, triple or quadruple up. A hand with 3 thoughtseizes uses up more instances of Thoughtseize. With a single 'seize, every 'seize drawn adds one to the number of hands with 'seizes.
Thanks alot for your help man, super informative and useful
I was thinking maybe on doubling up my pain lands (going 4x shivan reef) and looking for some stomping grounds. Wooded foothills are definitely out of my budget right now though.
Fetches are expensive, but represent just about the best value. Stormbreath is irreplaceable, but in 6 weeks: toast. With only 4 taplands currently, my value advice would be to get even a pair of fetches and a pair of the gainlands (rugged Highlands?) if your budget permits.
so rejigger around my lands so i have access to more red mana?
thanks!
That's one solution. You want G on turn 1, so you need ~11 untapped G sources. You want RR or GG on t3, so that's ~16 of each. Mystics count for a few G. You want U on t2, so that's about 11 U sources. A challenge without using fetches.
Could anyone do a quick critique of my deck? i'm a fairly casual player, and this is a somewhat budget build so i didn't purchase any expensive fetch/dual lands.
Orbs of Warding seems good in a narrow sort of way against Tutelage (although it helps against burn, also). How many enchantments do they run? If Dromoka's Command "sac an enchantment" gets the Tutelage, it would be cheaper and more general purpose. Bow of Nylea from the side is an enchantment that can also help against mill, burn and thopters.
As I've been running GW recently, I can say that I like relegating the mystics as upping your enchantments makes most of your cards bettter. Silkwrap should help against heroic and R aggro. Without the Mystics, it may make sense to put some Rams in the main to help against aggro.
If you think you are weak to aggro, you may want to move some Eidolons and/or Insight to the side.
Dromoka's Command seems helpful against all three of the problematic matchups you mention. I have lost matches due to forgetting the first mode and how it defeats Anger. I would add some to your 75.
I like all your cards, so I can't strongly recommend any cuts. The Thoughtseize don't seem as synergistic and the Unraveler seems narrow in application.
So we really don't have any answers to these cards ? It just sucks. It really does. This deck is SUPER fun to play and really good as well.
So wait. We have a deck that can get you up a 75% win rate that is fun to play? It is weak to a few cards. This is a problem? It doesn't really get any better than this.
Sure, you can put on your brewer hat and add B for some of the cards Darksteel_Eye mentioned or U for Stubborn Denial.
But what if you don't? If the deck was an auto-win, I would probably stop playing it. I have won through Ugin and Back to Nature (even Back to Nature cast and returned with Den Protector). I have drawn matches where multiple Tragic Arrogances were cast. This is Magic. I don't know of any decks with no bad matchups. Playing a sweet deck that wins a lot, but can be challenging is all that I think we can expect.
Since I can't find a GW constellation topic I may ask my question here. What tools does a standard GW constellation deck have against Perilous Vault/Tragic Arrogance (both cards mean "game over" if they resolve against any kind of constellation deck). Black gives you Thoughtseize, Duress and Infinite Obliteration. Is there anything a standard G/W constellation do against these cards ?
I did propose that the title of the thread be changed, but got no response. If there are enough of us playing GW, I suppose we could start another thread, but given current activity levels, I'd rather see a single Gxx Constellation thread.
The answers I've seen aren't so good, particularly against Arrogance. Banishing Light, Ainok Survivalist and Reclamation Sage can hit Vault if it's cast without activation mana up. Starfield can help to rebuild after Arrogance. The time honored way to deal with sweepers is to minimize overcommitment, but that is sort of the point of the deck. Being so linear, we do have a weakness to wipes.
I've proxied a Bant Megamorph Constellation list that can answer Vault, Arrogance, Ugin and Back to Nature. In my local meta, I doubt it is better than the stock GW, with which I am currently at 13-2-2. If Aggro subsides and control creeps back into the meta, I will put more effort into testing it.
Welcome! Good work on formatting the deck and using the tags properly.
While I am not an expert on R aggressive decks, I can see that you have many excellent cards that fit well together. I am referring to the mountains, Zurgo, Chandra, Firecraft, Abbott, Thunderbreak. These other cards seem strange and possibly suboptimal to me: Prism Ring, Stormwing Dragon, Kolaghan Stormsinger. I would also recommend that you either cut your 5 drops or add more land. I would also look at the R aggro thread in the competitive section to get ideas from real R aggro players.
I prefer Cleric over the Ram because in the matchups where you'd side it in, it being an enchantment is rarely relevant anyway. And if you treat it as a regular 0/5 that gains 1 life per turn, Cleric is just better.
...
The point is that in a Constellation deck Ram is not an 0/5 that gains a life per turn. It also casts for W and gains another life with Herald out, draws a card with Eidolon out, creates an angel with Sigil out, gets returned for free by Starfield, causes a Doomwake Giant trigger with Doomwake out, gets added to your hand by Kruphix's Insight. None of these are nothing. All together they add up to a lot. The Insights of the GW deck get an average of 2.7 enchantments. Yours get 2.3 Enchantments. Even with none of these, it can be better than Cleric. It takes two spells to burn out and can block an Abbott safely. It survives Languish, blocks Rhino and blocks Tasigur.
Andrea Mengucci discusses this among other things on ChannelFireball.
the article includes this:
Basically each Thoughtseize occurs equally often, but the more you have, the more often they double, triple or quadruple up. A hand with 3 thoughtseizes uses up more instances of Thoughtseize. With a single 'seize, every 'seize drawn adds one to the number of hands with 'seizes.
Fetches are expensive, but represent just about the best value. Stormbreath is irreplaceable, but in 6 weeks: toast. With only 4 taplands currently, my value advice would be to get even a pair of fetches and a pair of the gainlands (rugged Highlands?) if your budget permits.
That's one solution. You want G on turn 1, so you need ~11 untapped G sources. You want RR or GG on t3, so that's ~16 of each. Mystics count for a few G. You want U on t2, so that's about 11 U sources. A challenge without using fetches.
With 10 R sources, I foresee trouble casting Ashcloud or Stormbreath.
If you think you are weak to aggro, you may want to move some Eidolons and/or Insight to the side.
Dromoka's Command seems helpful against all three of the problematic matchups you mention. I have lost matches due to forgetting the first mode and how it defeats Anger. I would add some to your 75.
I like all your cards, so I can't strongly recommend any cuts. The Thoughtseize don't seem as synergistic and the Unraveler seems narrow in application.
Given the splash, I find myself thinking about Narset or flip-Jace.
I am also thinking about Phalanx Leader and Defiant Strike.
Basically, just beat it with card advantage. They don't have it G1, it doesn't hit angels or the Herald. Take your beats, then just run them over.
Edit: Frank Lepore tries out Abzan Constellation and discusses the GW version.
So wait. We have a deck that can get you up a 75% win rate that is fun to play? It is weak to a few cards. This is a problem? It doesn't really get any better than this.
Sure, you can put on your brewer hat and add B for some of the cards Darksteel_Eye mentioned or U for Stubborn Denial.
But what if you don't? If the deck was an auto-win, I would probably stop playing it. I have won through Ugin and Back to Nature (even Back to Nature cast and returned with Den Protector). I have drawn matches where multiple Tragic Arrogances were cast. This is Magic. I don't know of any decks with no bad matchups. Playing a sweet deck that wins a lot, but can be challenging is all that I think we can expect.
I did propose that the title of the thread be changed, but got no response. If there are enough of us playing GW, I suppose we could start another thread, but given current activity levels, I'd rather see a single Gxx Constellation thread.
The answers I've seen aren't so good, particularly against Arrogance. Banishing Light, Ainok Survivalist and Reclamation Sage can hit Vault if it's cast without activation mana up. Starfield can help to rebuild after Arrogance. The time honored way to deal with sweepers is to minimize overcommitment, but that is sort of the point of the deck. Being so linear, we do have a weakness to wipes.
I've proxied a Bant Megamorph Constellation list that can answer Vault, Arrogance, Ugin and Back to Nature. In my local meta, I doubt it is better than the stock GW, with which I am currently at 13-2-2. If Aggro subsides and control creeps back into the meta, I will put more effort into testing it.
While I am not an expert on R aggressive decks, I can see that you have many excellent cards that fit well together. I am referring to the mountains, Zurgo, Chandra, Firecraft, Abbott, Thunderbreak. These other cards seem strange and possibly suboptimal to me: Prism Ring, Stormwing Dragon, Kolaghan Stormsinger. I would also recommend that you either cut your 5 drops or add more land. I would also look at the R aggro thread in the competitive section to get ideas from real R aggro players.
The point is that in a Constellation deck Ram is not an 0/5 that gains a life per turn. It also casts for W and gains another life with Herald out, draws a card with Eidolon out, creates an angel with Sigil out, gets returned for free by Starfield, causes a Doomwake Giant trigger with Doomwake out, gets added to your hand by Kruphix's Insight. None of these are nothing. All together they add up to a lot. The Insights of the GW deck get an average of 2.7 enchantments. Yours get 2.3 Enchantments. Even with none of these, it can be better than Cleric. It takes two spells to burn out and can block an Abbott safely. It survives Languish, blocks Rhino and blocks Tasigur.