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    posted a message on BG counters
    Quote from Aberfoyle »
    Quote from hoser2 »
    Strap on the seatbelts, guys! I think we are in for a wild ride.

    Here is what I have proxied and ready to test with in between prerelease matches tonight. Feedback always appreciated!
    For the sideboard my primary concerrns are Marvel, which I expect to just adopt Ulamog, Kozilek and World Breaker, Copycat Combo and control. I like having 8 answers to Copycat Combo postboard, but I wonder if Walking Ballista is maindeckable.
    How did playtesting go? Is the energy shell better than running Sylvan Advocate and Drana, Liberator of Malakir and Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet in the MB?

    Also how did Grim Flayer work out considering this is not delirium? He looks good in the build on paper and counters + trample work with me.

    I really want to start testing GB/GBx but I am missing Flayer and am still on the fence whether to invest.
    I played against my own updated decks: an updated Naya Humans that is better than you think and updated Naya Marvel
    The deck held it's own against Humans, but wanted more card advantage. Siphoner was really good in the matchup, as we traded a lot, and card advantage was pretty much the main issue. I didn't get enough games in against Marvel to get a sense of the matchup. Flayer felt like a good card, but not essential. I think you could play the deck without Flayer and see how well positioned it is, before picking up Flayer if you liked the deck.
    I expect to play in a small proxy tournament on Tuesday and hope to get more data. But I think Siphoner is fabulous in an energy deck and am looking to add more.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on BG counters
    Strap on the seatbelts, guys! I think we are in for a wild ride.

    Here is what I have proxied and ready to test with in between prerelease matches tonight. Feedback always appreciated!

    For the sideboard my primary concerrns are Marvel, which I expect to just adopt Ulamog, Kozilek and World Breaker, Copycat Combo and control. I like having 8 answers to Copycat Combo postboard, but I wonder if Walking Ballista is maindeckable.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on BG counters
    @ownedshipbacik - Yeah, Big Pig really wants Verdurous on board, or at least Rishkar. With so many 2 drops, I might need to rethink that one. I feel lucky that there are so many great choices to fill that slot with. The Heart slots also don't seem particularly synergistic. And I need more answers to the combos besides get them dead first.

    @lajube - Thanks! Yeah, I considered contributing to your thread. While I am a fan of generic threads to build a critical mass of participants, I didn't see a lot in common (beyond Winding Constrictor) between the concept that I was working on and where your deck was going. This is not to say that your deck is not superior, just different.

    I am really on the just get 'em dead plan. My 12/25 sequences go something like T1 Loam Dryad; T2 Winding Constrictor, Animation Module; T3 Rishkar, make 2 servos, swing 4 (Constrictor); T4 Nissa-, Swing 21. Without Animation Module: T3 swing 7, T4 swing 15.

    Rampager might be great, but I don't like your sequence. Removal on Cub T4 leaves me nowhere. Walking Ballista seems great also, particularly for the possibility of hosing combos.

    Drana, Yahenni, Siphoner, ... So many great cards to try to break wide open with Constrictor. In my deck, I am exploring Cub, Flayer, Rishkar, Nissa, Greenhulk and Big Pig, but I dunno what's best. What a great time to brew!
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on Abzan Humans
    Quote from Saydee1800 »
    Quote from hoser2 »
    Quote from Saydee1800 »
    With the release of Renegade Rallier and Winding Constrictor and the Banned of Reflector Mage. Creature with counter will rock

    Abzan has the perfect manna base too boot..

    So I figure I would start here..


    Renegade Rallier is Broken!!!!!

    I have been playing refector mage for ever. With him banned counter are so powerful..

    As a long time fan of Humans, I have been musing about this idea. But come on, deck tags. I put them in here and you can quote this to see how it's done. You've already done almost all the work in organizing your deck.

    Metallic Mimic seems interesting for your deck. As you have apparently started to figure out, Revolt may need some help. While Hidden Stockpile may be too much of an investment, Renegade Map, Terrarion, Evolving Wilds and Unbridled Growth seem interesting.Without more Revolt enablers, I would cut back on the Revolt cards, which seem subpar without Revolt being triggered.


    Thanks I was being lazy. Lol

    What revolt enables do you speak of.

    I listed the revolt enablers in the post.
    Revolt enablers: Hidden Stockpile, Renegade Map, Terrarion, Evolving Wilds, Unbridled Growth
    Quote from Saydee1800 »
    I have been a flash player day one spell queller popped.

    Problem I see is avacyn and queller doesnt die to easy with out grasp. Just not sure if running double black are will hurt.
    Renegade Map would allow you to ramp with Rallier, have a better chance of making Push take out a 4 mana creature, make Flayer get Delirium more easily and make Grasp easier to cast. Vessel of Nascency is another Revolt enabler that gives Rallier more targets and can help Grim Flayer be larger.
    All of these Revolt enablers are somewhat durdly, but your Revolt cards seem subpar to me without them.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on BG counters
    Hello, as a former RG energy player i decided to try something new and ended up brewing BG counters which i think will be a strong archetype this upcoming standard.
    I have been testing this deck on xmage and went 6-1, only losing to white weenies due to some unfortunate draws.

    this is my deck
    Lands
    4 Blooming Marsh
    4 Evolving Wilds
    6 Swamp
    8 Forest
    Creatures
    4 Greenbelt Rampager
    4 Narnam Renegade
    2 Greenwheel Liberator
    4 Longtusk Cub
    4 Winding Constrictor
    3 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
    3 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
    4 Bristling Hydra
    2 Ridgescale Tusker
    Planeswalkers
    4 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
    Artifacts
    4 Implement of Ferocity
    Sideboard
    4 Fatal Push
    4 Blossoming Defense
    3 Heroic Intervention
    2 Liliana, The Last Hope
    2 Verdurous Gearhulk

    This is what ive got so far, sideboard is basically just protection against spot removal + wrath effects, plus some removal myself, i put Liliana there just because i own her and against faster decks such as the white weenies that defeated me. The best start for this deck is T2 Longtusk Cub T3 Winding Constrictor, if Cub connects it can get out of hands quickly. I am also considering running Tireless Tracker instead of the Renegade Tusker So what do you think? Any suggestions?

    Welcome! Nice job on organizing your list!
    Deck tags are much easier than what you've done and are, technically, required. You can quote this or check out this link to see how it's done.

    Here's where I plan to start my testing. I may make changes to adapt some of your ideas. Hopefully you can find some benefit from perusing this. Attune and Servant seem helpful in getting Cub going, at least.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on Abzan Humans
    Quote from Saydee1800 »
    With the release of Renegade Rallier and Winding Constrictor and the Banned of Reflector Mage. Creature with counter will rock

    Abzan has the perfect manna base too boot..

    So I figure I would start here..


    Renegade Rallier is Broken!!!!!

    I have been playing refector mage for ever. With him banned counter are so powerful..

    As a long time fan of Humans, I have been musing about this idea. But come on, deck tags. I put them in here and you can quote this to see how it's done. You've already done almost all the work in organizing your deck.

    Metallic Mimic seems interesting for your deck. As you have apparently started to figure out, Revolt may need some help. While Hidden Stockpile may be too much of an investment, Renegade Map, Terrarion, Evolving Wilds and Unbridled Growth seem interesting.Without more Revolt enablers, I would cut back on the Revolt cards, which seem subpar without Revolt being triggered.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on [Primer] UW Spirits/Flash
    Quote from pulli23 »
    To fizzle that counterspell that's under the queller? And prevent a destroy+counterspell happening at the same time?
    I don't think it works like that.

    Not being instant speed means that you can't prevent another spell resolving successfully.

    I am less certain about this but I think that when the Queller flickers, the previously exiled spell goes onto the stack after the Queller's ability. It then resolves before the Spell Queller's ability, leaving nothing to exile unless there was a spell already on the stack.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Spire of Industry? I want it so much. Key is good, but otherwise I dunno if we have enough durable artifacts. "Kill Mimic, now you can't cast spells" is not a happy place. Hub and Lightning have been great, but with Heart and Guardian it feels like 4 toughness may be the new 3 toughness. Temper can take out Saheeli obviously, but being able to harness for four and use Hub for fixing may not be reliable. You have pared the white down to nearly a splash, so Hub seems defensible by itself and you don't need to go to 4 Hubs. With 2 or 3 Hubs, you won't have many Hub-only draws. Mising in a Renegade Map could help also. It counts as an artifact and isn't really more durdly than a Spires.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Quote from Nevelo »
    I kind of wonder if Humans is better than Dwarves as the aggressive Boros tribe now that we lost Copter. Garrison looks better than Depala and Pia without it. We get a sick pickup in the new set with Metallic Mimic, not to mention Kari Zev, Skyship Raider too. Mimic with Inspector lets us keep playing the Nerd Ape. I think I'm back on the Humans train.

    ...

    No idea on sideboard. I'm thinking Gideon is better than Chandra, but sticking with the latter is my own biases showing. Heron's Grace Champion makes splashing Green very tempting. Maybe there is a list that only runs a tiny bit to make it work.
    Nice list! I like it a lot. Some of the best performing tournament decks have used Aether hub to satisfy the difficulty of casting Apprentice or Inspector T1. They were also running Harnessed Lightning, so that may have helped with the Hubs. With Hubs, you could have both Gideon and Chandra. I'll take a stab at a barely Naya list based on yours, but barely Mardu with Scrounger also may be worth considering. Greedily, I also think of going more Mardu and using Unlicensed Disintegration.




    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Quote from feffo93 »
    Hi guys, i started playing magic just a month ago and i fell in love with human and angels. This is the deck that i put togheter, please note that is semi-budget so no gideon and no copter Smile



    i'm really unsure about what to put in the sideboard and whether to use Hamlet Captain or Duskwatch Recruiter, can you help me out?


    Welcome! And you successfully used deck and card tags on your first post. Awesome!

    As a semi-budget construction, I am very impressed with your deck. I am not sure about Eldritch Evolution, but it might be genius.

    For your two questions:
    Duskwatch Recruiter - Great against control and UW Flash. Gets down under most countermagic/Spell Queller. If the opponent tries to sit back on a Queller or countermagic, you can flip him, use his ability in response and get in for three. Sometimes when he's flipped, you can doublespell or play the Champion for three. Against an aggressive deck, it's just a bear that will never flip and you won't have time to use the ability. These guys get worse in multiples, because the ability is redundant.
    Hamlet Captain - On a board with some other creatures, he makes them all bigger and makes your overall deck much faster and more aggressive. Against aggro, you may be able to ignore their attacks and swing back or totally blow them out with the Champ. Against Marvel, you may be able to finish them before they get a good spin and make the spiders seem small. Against Control, they may be able to kill/counter everything else you try to do and ignore or brickwall this guy with Baral or Thing in the Ice, leaving the Captain looking like a sad panda. These guys get better in multiples. With just 2, they both become 3/3s.

    But you probably knew all this already. I recommend a mix or these two, with more of the one that seems most applicable for the decks you expect to play against in your main deck and more of the other in the sideboard. You probably don't need 4 Recruiters in any case.

    Your mana base seems pretty good for your main deck. Many beginning players start with too few lands, but 23 seems close to optimal for your main deck. Arguably, you should have 14 untapped W sources to have a 90% chance of getting Thraben Inspector down T1 and 14 untapped G sources for 90% Oviya, so you are close. For a 90% chance of Always Watching, little Nissa or Eldritch Evolution on turn 3, you would want 19 sources of the relevant color. While I am not sure about the plan for Eldritch Evolution, turn 3 Gisela may not be consistent.

    I see two ways you could change the mana base. You could add more duals (Canopy Vista! or Evolving Wilds) to be able to consistently cast your spells or drop Eldritch Evolution and lean more toward W.

    Your sideboard has more expensive cards, though. For 5 or 7 mana cards, 23 lands seems low to me. You could add 1-2 land to your sidebard to bring in with Sigarda, big Nissa or Bruna.

    I hope this helps!
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Quote from Neonar113 »
    Looks like Aether Revolt added some nice additions yea. Myself, who plays the GW version is a bit conflicted on how to modify the existing lists now xD.

    Yeah. That G/W list is solid. It seems to me that the first question is: can you trigger Revolt? I doubt that you want to throw in Evolving Wilds, Renegade Maps or other durdly jank. If not, then Rallier is only good on turn 5 after cracking a clue or after opponent instant speed removal. So I am not sure Rallier or Herbalists are actually good. With Rishkar, the question is whether the ramping abilities are good. I am not sure how much help you are getting.

    I could imagine Metallic Mimic and Heroic Intervention being useful.

    If you do find a use for the new cards, I'd love to see what you come up with.

    For Naya, I already run Evolving Wilds, so Renegade Map is interesting and Rallier could ramp me in addition to getting a Copter or Lieutenant back. Kari Zev looks cute, but as a 1/3, she could just die. If the monkey were a Human cohort that would pump Lieutenant ... But I don't know if I can afford to durdle.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Notable Humans from Aether Revolt:
    W -

    U -


    B -


    R -


    G -


    Multi -

    Colorless - Metallic Mimic

    Notable spells:
    Heart of Kiran, Heroic Intervention, Alley Evasion

    Every version gets Metallic Mimic

    G/W got Herbalists, Revolutionary, Renegade Rallier and Heroic Intervention

    R/W got Kari Zev

    Gideon decks got Heart of Kiran

    Naya gets all of the above, obviously

    U/W gets Skyship Plunderer

    4-color gets everything

    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Gatheringmagic has a video featuring Wb Humans.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Are the four Planeschase Anthology decks compatible with Standard play?
    Quote from LeDave952 »
    Thanks guys, I got the PM Wizard, thanks.

    I have another newbie question. Let's say I am doing this based off standard play; If I were to buy two deck builder sets that are in the current blocks list, are the two decks interchangeable with each other if I were to combine them to build my own deck? If they can be combined, are they still "technically" usable in play? Meaning do a lot of people do it or does it significantly drop your win-rate because there are so many different cards containing different things from different sets? Thanks!

    The key aspect, as I see it, is where you plan to play. You could be exclusively playing at home with friends and/or playing Standard at FNM or equivalent in a store.
    Offhand, the options are Deck Builders Toolkits (the latest being Kaladesh), Planeswalker Dual Decks (latest: Nissa vs Ob Nixilis), Planeswalker intro decks, or picking up singles for an existing deck.

    If you will be playing in a store or otherwise playing standard, I think you really have only two options: Planeswalker intro decks and picking up singles for an existing deck. The Deckbuilder's Toolkits and Planeswalker Dual Decks are both decent products that will teach you about playing. The Planeswalker Dual Decks have nonstandard cards that you won't be able to use in a store and the cards don't map to a solid standard deck. The value in a Deck Builder's Toolkit is in the boosters and it is a solid value. However, the cost of a competitive Standard deck is nearly exclusively in the rares and mythics. Acquiring the expensive cards for a coherent standard deck by opening packs would be ridiculously expensive and the four packs that are in a Deckbuilder's toolkit would be a drop in a bucket.

    If you are going to be playing standard in a store or with existing players, the decks you can make with a Deck Builder's Toolkit (or two, three or four) will not be competitive just due to the limited card pool. Around here, FNM includes people playing the best decks from the latest pro tournaments. Others are talented brewers with essentially unlimited card pools who have built decks that are competitive with those best decks in Standard.

    There are reasonably competitive decks that are not incredibly expensive such as the RG Energy/Pummeler deck or MTGGoldfish has a bunch here. With these decks you can be competitive in a store and learn a ton about playing. You will also learn about deckbuilding by seeing how these decks are constructed and how they work. You can also learn about deckbuilding by tweaking them yourself. You can pick up singles must affordably online, IMO. I have had good luck ordering from tcgplayer.com.

    I expected the beginner Planeswalker decks to not be remotely competitive. But a few weeks ago I was in the finals at an FNM with my nearly state-of-the-art Naya Marvel deck and I got trounced by someone who took the Nissa intro Planeswalker deck, tweaked in three Verdurous Gearhulks, and won the event. I wouldn't expect those results, but I have a newfound respect for at least the G intro Planeswalker deck.

    If you do go to a FNM comparable event at a store or play standard at a meetup and are reasonably friendly, there is a good chance you can get help with your gameplay and deck construction. There are people who draft that have piles of the commons and uncommons that fill the Deckbuilder's Toolkit that might be happy to give you some of the cards you need also. If you go to a shop, bear in mind that many stores sell the cards and, while they allow trading cards for cards, they frown on people paying cash for cards to each other.

    If you can attend a prerelease at your local store (ideally with a friend), I highly recommend it. Prereleases for Aether Revolt are in two weeks. You will learn about the last two sets, gameplay and deck construction while acquiring some new cards, networking and hopefully having a fun experience. The full Aether Revolt set should be spoiled and you will be able to practice deckbuilding a prerelease pool here. Wizards will likely publish an Aether Revolt update, but here is the Kaladesh prerelease primer, which includes excellent guidelines for deck construction.

    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on Humans
    ...

    I would love to see a list!
    As you wish:

    This is a semi-budget list, as it might be better with Copters (although maybe not, I just took them out for the Hawaii trip to present a spicier, less spikey brew). Anyway, the above is pretty good if you don't have Copters. If you have Copters, you could try the above with the following changes:
    +4 Smuggler's Copter
    -1 Duskwatch Recruiter
    -1 Tireless Tracker
    -1 Heron's Grace Champion

    Ulvenwald Mysteries and Combustible Gearhulk are the experimental slots in the sideboard. Displacer and Oviya are experimental in the main.
    Aah, this is messy. Below is what I would suggest to a spikey player as a starting point. Then I would avidly listen to what they told me as they tested.

    Edit: probably needs another Fragmentize or two for the side in Marvel-heavy metas
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Quote from asakurazero »
    So, is better naya than straight GW or it is more inconsistent? GW humans its not just there IMHO having mana issues doesnt help either we kinda depend on clues to move the deck faster

    Give me a known meta, 10 matches against all the top tier decks, a chance to tune the 75, more matches, then I could give you the opinion of an avid, sub-grinder level player.

    I play Naya because I love it and generally do well with it. The mana has to be worse. It's quite possible that no-one will ever test Naya Humans enough to know how good it is.

    If you want a guaranteed competitive deck, stick to RW or GW. You will probably get more percentages by tuning either one for your expected meta than trying an unproven brew like Naya. If you want a fun, unexpected deck to take to FNM, you could try Naya.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on G/R Eldrazi
    More big creatures seems like a conventionally powerful approach. If you want to try something more unconventional, you could also mess around with things like Hedron Crawler, Primal Druid, Wild Wanderer, Foul Emissary and G Emerge creatures. It wouldn't be hard for you to splash U, either, given all the land fetching effects. U and UG offer more Emerge creatures.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on G/R Eldrazi
    I must be missing a lot of things, because I don't see how your deck works.
    • Garrison and its tokens don't improve the power of Vile Aggregate
    • Kozilek's Return's triggered ability can't trigger. If it could, it would wipe out your board. The front side wipes out your Garrison tokens.
    • Delirium seems unlikely. You have 21 land and 16 cards that get you land for only 23 cards that do anything.
    • Ruin ramps you if you have a Wastes in play, but there are only 8 cards that benefit from the ramp.
    If you want to play Garrison, there have been multiple RW Humans decks that have been successful at the highest levels of competition that you could get ideas from. Garrisons are even featured in the Boros Human Burn thread. They have also been featured in some R Midrange and aggressive decks, but I am not as familiar with them.

    Edit: oh. I get it. You want to meld Garrison. The deck makes more sense. I think you would be better with a deck that had a greater variety of threats including the meld possibility, rather than being so all-in on a fragile threat. Having played Garrison extensively in Naya and 4c humans, I love the power, but it just dies without protection or a variety of other potent threats.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Tournament report: I took Naya Humans (similar to the list above, -Copters. By request, I can post a list) out to FNM at a new place while on vacation. It was a delightful crowd for a four round event. I beat RG Werewolves, Grixis Visions and RG Pummeler in 3-game sets before soccumbing weakly to RB Artifact/Madness Aggro.

    In the first three matches, Heron's Grace Champion was generally great. Against RB, I kept a 2-lander and never got a third land, then flooded in Game 2. I took the opportunity to test more against RB aggro, since it was a no-holds-barred version. I went 2-3 otherwise without boarding. I think I want to work in some 1 mana 1/2s, like Inspector or Oviya to keep the Bomat Couriers in check.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Quote from Ralsekx »
    Hey guys, im having problems with my Wb humans against the temur energy deck with confiscation coups,virtuoso, hydra etc, i was siding out creatures because they play incendiary flowx4 and harsenned lightning x4, and they kill my stuff easily and break my tempo, trying to side in gideons, swamps for playing the transgress and 2-3 transgress.. what are your thoughts of this matchup? am i playing it correctly?

    I like the Militia Captains from jacobk's sideboard above. I don't know if you can go controlling on them. I would lean towards overwhelming their removal with high quality threats. If you can support colorless for Displacer, it's really fun against confiscation coup (and Spell Queller).
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on SCG Players' Championship -- Standard -- 12/18
    SCG Players Championship is partly Standard. It will take place 12/17-18.

    Day 1 coverage will begin at 10:00am ET, with Legacy and Modern.

    Day 2 coverage will begin with hot and spicy standard action at a time that I haven't been able to determine, but presumably either 10:00 or 10:30am ET. If you know the coverage starting time, please chime in in the comments below.

    Information for the event is here.

    Coverage for the event is here.

    You can discuss the event below. Please remain on topic. Off-topic posts will be marked as spam.

    Thanks!

    -- hoser2
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Quote from kyle_burns604 »
    Hey Guys!

    Just a quick update. I've been playing the 4 color human list for a few weeks now and I'm still in love with it. My sideboard is still hit or miss, but the main deck is still fantastic. I've at least take Top 8 every week with a few Top 4's mixed in. Nobody ever sees Heron's Grace Champion coming, which usually takes the game. If you guys have any specific questions, just let me know.

    Also...is it just me, or does Oath of Ajani look fantastic for this deck?!?

    I love the report and enthusiasm ...But we aren't allowed to discuss spoilers outside of the standard new card discussion until the spoilers are complete.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Quote from Stryker34RUS »
    Quote from hoser2 »
    Eric Froelich does an article on GW Humans on Channelfireball.

    Is that G/W Humans deck better than your 4c Humans or Naya Humans Deck?
    Against the field l would go with GW or the RW that Kris McCord t8ed the SCG standard open with on 12/4. These are decks that have succeeded at the highest levels of competition. The improved manabase consistency also seems very important over a longer tournament.
    Head to head, I would pick Naya, but it would be a meta choice because it is just a little bigger than the others.

    Edit: Jeskai Humans list found here, probably more of an FNM-competitive than PPTQ or GP ready deck.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Eric Froelich does an article on GW Humans on Channelfireball.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on How to improvise post AER...
    I like Tracker and Bishop to generate artifacts and pseudo-ramp via Improvise. Tracker seems universally good because we want to play lands anyway. The Bishop synergy seems more dependant on deck construction. Ongoing Investigation seems more like Bishop as something to keep an eye on, but not otherwise build around.

    There is a Metallurgic Summonings deck already. I think it properly focuses on instants and sorceries. While it does spawn artifacts, I think the awkwardness may outweigh the synergy.

    Fabricate cards seem like a slam dunk to go with. Marionette Master seems to me like a possible finisher. Zulaport Cutthroat and a sac outlet (Westvale Abbey has already seen use) seem interesting. Servo Exhibition and Weaponcraft Enthusiast also intrigue me. Cultivator's Caravan draws my eye. The Marionette Master deck is something you can build now, of course.

    Panharmonicon is an artifact that can generate additional Fabricate triggers.

    W also offers Angel of Invention and Visionary Augmenter. Eldrazi Displacer can generate Fabricate triggers given enough mana.

    Cryptolith Rite is a way to generate mana from random servos.

    Prophetic Prism could be a utility piece.

    The new Tezzeret (not Master of Metal) will be something to keep an eye on. I imagine that Tezzeret will be B or BU.

    Saheeli Rai could maybe help with her artifact generation.

    Depending on what you are trying to do, the Gearhulks can also serve as ramp. Probably stay away from Cataclysmic Gearhulk Wink .

    What colors will have Improvise? B for sure. D'oh! Pay attention to the OP.

    Posted in: Standard New Card Discussion
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    posted a message on Humans
    Quote from lugger »
    Has anyone here played the GW Humans list from last weekend?

    Thoughts?
    I played against it with UW Panharmonicon on Wednesday. My only loss. It seemed low to the ground and relentless. Don't use the mtggoldfish Wescoe listing for it (58 cards). The Sam Black listing has the two Sigarda that I think are missing.

    Edit: Another article by Wescoe on GW Humans, inc sideboarding
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on UW Blinkmonicon
    Quote from Severance328 »
    I could throw that together
    That would be great, but I don't want to undermine any of the thread creators. Let me PM them and see what they want to do before you put work into it. It seems like you are on board with the plan.

    Edit: And an article by Pascal Maynard on Channelfireball, with sideboarding
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on G/x Splendid Reclamation Eldrazi Ramp
    Quote from GPash »
    Ah, I see what you meant now.

    There's Hedron Crawler as well, but at the 2-drop slot I want to be filling the yard.
    not to mention 1 toughness in a Liliana world.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on G/x Splendid Reclamation Eldrazi Ramp
    Quote from GPash »
    Thanks for the input! What do you mean by, "this is the ramp we have on 4?"

    ...

    Ramp like Explosive Vegetation that actually puts extra lands in play at the four mana slot. Actually there is Wild Wanderer also, so I was exaggerating. Blighted Woodland seems like 5 mana and only ramps us by a net one, so it seems worse than Natural Connection, except uncounterable and better synergy with Reclamation. Primal Druid is interesting, but not a four drop either.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on G/x Splendid Reclamation Eldrazi Ramp
    Okay. With the re-rise of Marvel, I just want to play 4 World Breakers. This does look like the ramp we have on 4. Suggestions that probably won't work:

    Between Kiora and Kozilek's Return, I want to start testing Temur and Ruin, but it is unlikely that they all work together well. In particular, Ruin seems to conflict with our Delirium interest.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on Bant Midrange
    Really interesting caoncept. I think Tamiyo and Verdurous are really good. I do have a few minor questions.
    • why unsubstantiate in the main deck? I'm probably wrong, but I think it's just a bad card. Even if there are matchups where we are interested in strict card disadvantage, I think there are matchups where we will end up just bouncing a 1-2 mana spell. I think maindeck, I prefer Thraben Inspector, Anticipate, Tireless Tracker or Bristling Hydra.
    • The problem with UW Flash (in my opinion, although I've seen it elsewhere) is that it's a tempo deck without much early pressure. Don't we want more early pressure to support our tempo plays?
    • Without artifacts or sorceries and few enchantments that may never end up in the bin, Delirium doesn't seem likely. Grafwidow in the board seems underwhelming to me.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on UW Blinkmonicon
    I built Seth's deck and took it to a four round standard event tonight. I went 3-1, coming in second and cashing. I lost to GW Humans while beating UW flash, Dimir Control and RW Vehicles. The deck seemed good, but I can't imagine top 8ing a Grand Prix with it. I think I want Fumigate in the sideboard like you are doing.

    Seth wrote a tournament report and sideboarding guide with videos about it on tcgplayer.com this week. Pascal Maynard did a video on channelfireball today also. Eric Froehlich wrote a deck guide

    Skysovereign is just beastly with Panharmonicon out. Flickering it with two Panharmonicons? Unbelievable.

    Edit: added links. And one more thing:
    We have three panharmonicon deck threads going without much traffic. Would we be better off with one generic Panharmonicon thread with a primer?
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on BG/x Delirium
    Quote from MagicMasterJr »
    For Sultai, I was considering Summary Dismissal, Jace (replacement for Ob Nix), Negate and Ceremonious Rejection. I was considering trying out a complete one-two-punch by essentially playing normal game one, changing out the deck to make Sultai or Abzan and then playing game two with a different deck just to see how it would work.


    For Abzan I was considering Gideons, Gisela, Dec'n Stones, possibly Avacyn...the list goes on. It just seems like there is a lot more going on for Abzan then Sultai...

    I love the WW midrange aggressive cards too. However, the points made by pixelW, Ven0msRage and colesy4971 seem valid. In addition, Gideon and Gisela are completely different decks that care nothing about Delirium and the long game. You could side into a worse GW tokens or a worse GW Angels, but in either configuration, I think you have a lot of cards that do not really synergize. I would love to be proven wrong, so I want to see your build.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
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    posted a message on PRIMER - Boros Human Burn (new tier 1 deck?)
    Quote from patbou »
    Quote from hoser2 »

    61 card main deck. If the last card added is of comparable quality to the next-to-last card, then you have the option of effectively 23.4 or 24.4 lands

    ...

    Please accept my respectful apology if I have misunderstood your argument.


    I beleive the right numbers are 23.6 and 24.6, if you were looking for an equivalent on 60 cards for 24/61 and 25/61.

    You haven't misunderstood, and no need to apology. Smile

    As for my definition of flooding out : Having in hand, battlefield or graveyard more lands than my basic ratio of 40%. In the first few turns, I'm flooded with too many lands in my hand and thus less options to cast spells (best scenario is 3 lands in hand, then top deck land #4 and #5 on turns 3 and 5). After turn 5, I'm not flooded if the land to cards ratio is around 40% (say 8 lands on 20 cards), but I rarely want to see more than 6 lands (to flip Battlements) and all extras are cycled with Copter or Defiance. Being mana short in the late game is a great thing (top decking non-lands after you hit land #6 is what we all want).

    I'm happy with 24 lands on the play. I usually win on the play, and thus my land/card ratio is quite good. On the draw, I'm pretty sure I see a bit too many lands and if one of them could be any of my other spells, many games could have turned out differently ("oh baby, just a burn on the top deck, oh yeah, please, a burn, yes, I'm going to draw a burn and win, or Garrison that I'll haste right away, oh Lord, Gideon and his anthem, or Lieutenant, please... WTF! Another land!!!").

    I have been thinking of doing exactly what you suggest : siding in card #61 when on the Draw. It is at least one way to test out the theory that when on the Draw, the land ratio needs not be that high to have the same or better odds. Siding out a land is a bit more extreme, but that way the odds of drawing the other cards of the deck are not diluted by that 61th card. I'll run some tests on XMage. If you do test it out and it gives you a better win ratio on the Draw, please let us know.

    I do side in a 61st card of gas reasonably often, but between playing different decks and not playing enough matches for it to be statistically significant, I can't advise you.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on PRIMER - Boros Human Burn (new tier 1 deck?)
    Quote from patbou »
    ...

    Basically, if we were comfortable with the odds of 24 lands on the Play (the basic assumption of worst case scenario for land/turn ratio), then we should be extremely happy with 23 lands on the Draw for game 2 or 3 (post SB). The odds of having lands #3 and #4 on time are better (cumulative odds of 23-Draw vs 24-Play). And compared to 24 lands and on the Draw, there are far less chances of flooding out on turns 5-6+ if we side out a land (to keep only 23 on the Draw).

    ...
    Conclusion : Siding out a land on the Draw seems to make sense, with no more chances of mulligans, or missing a land drop on turns 1-5, but with less chances of flooding out on turns 5+.

    That work with the Hypergeometric Distributions is indeed very interesting. Copter makes things better, but I don't care enough to figure out how much. I find myself skeptical of the logic chain beyond that. Independent of the validity of the logic chain, the conclusion could still be correct.

    When you say "if we are comfortable with the odds of 24 lands on the Play ...", that seems like you are pushing the case. In game 1 you have chosen 24 lands based on the combined odds of being on the play and the draw. If the combined odds are ideal at 24, doesn't that mean that the odds of good mana are a little low on the play and a little high on the draw? So when you choose 24 lands for your deck, you are not necessarily comfortable with 24 on the play, but it's just the best compromise for a 50/50 mix of play and draw.

    Further, I wonder whether your definition of flood is too severe. Having an extra land at turn 6 doesn't seem harmful compared to the cost of missing my third land drop. If I miss my third land drop twice, I may never be able to catch up. I wonder whether there is starvation, a good range and flooding. All decks flood eventually, so I imagine a deck has a range of turns over which we want to have drawn a range of lands.

    Lest you think that I am insisting on a an inflexible land allotment, I do want to bring up some middle grounds. Bear in mind that these seem like common sense to me, but are not at all orthodox. Removing a land and adding a card of gas is a significant adjustment. Mathematically, it seems we have some intermediate options:
    • 61 card main deck. If the last card added is of comparable quality to the next-to-last card, then you have the option of effectively 23.4 or 24.4 lands
    • Side into 61 cards on the draw. Adding your card of gas without taking a land out still decreases the chance of flooding. Post-board your sideboard can't be more than 15, but it could legally be 14.

    None of this proves that your conclusion (pull a land on the draw) is incorrect, but just that it may not work as well as you think and that there are intermediate options.

    Please accept my respectful apology if I have misunderstood your argument.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • 1

    posted a message on Humans
    Quote from Stryker34RUS »
    Quote from hoser2 »
    I put together my Naya Humans, but didn't really get it together in time for the Standard Showdowns. Here is what I plan to test this week:
    ...


    Couldn't you explain about sideboarding tactics of Skysovereign, Consul Flagship?
    Im'm looking for Humans Standart deck without Smuggler's Copter. This topis is so interesting but it's the only one.
    Sure. I've replaced Arlinn Kord with a second Nahiri. Also, I've gone back to Harnessed Lightning instead of the madness package. Against Control, Lightning out, Planeswalkers in. Skysovereign comes in with Nahiri against Control and Artifact decks. Skysovereign is great by itself, and Nahiri -8 can get it, Verdurous Gearhulk, Avacyn, Heron's Grace Champion, depending on the situation.

    There are a million great two drops that you could replace Copter with: another Duskwatch Recruiter, Lambholt Pacifist, Selfless Spirit, Hamlet Captain, ... The Copter is flying and loots, but getting pumped by Champion and Lieutenant is huge in this deck. Hamlet Captain with Garrison is amazing. There are so many good cards for this deck.

    below is what I took to the Standard Showdown this week. Officially I beat Temur Energy and Colossus before losing to UW Flash. But the Colossus deck flooded and then was mana screwed in our two games, so that was not useful information. I was color screwed in 2 of the 3 games against UW Flash (winning the only one where I got to play), so I think there is not much to tell, except that the mana can just kill you and the flash matchup might be close. The Temur Energy deck was one that had earlier beaten me (when I was playing GB Delirium at a PPTQ) in the hands of a good pilot, so that was a meaningful challenge.


    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Humans made a little noise over the weekend. Floyd Combs came in 11th at the SCG Standard Open with Wb Humans. Przemek Knocinski came in 12th at GP Madrid with a similar deck. In Denver, quite a variety of Humans decks made day 2.

    At GP Denver, there were apparently 15 Humans lists that made day two: 7 Wb (presumably close to what Craig Wescoe was playing a week ago), 3 WG (presumably at least some close to what Craig Wescoe was playing this week), 2 Mardu (maybe RW with Scrapheap Scrounger, Unlicensed Disintegration and Kambal and Transgress in the sideboard), 2 WU (no idea, but Reflector Mage and Gideon seem likely) 1 RW. Wb Humans was tied for 6-7 as most common archetypes advancing to day 2. Various Humans made up about 9.6% of the Day 2 metagame. Hopefully we get the 9-64th place decklists, as I think Craig Wescoe may have been close to top 8.
    Edit:
    21st: GW (Wescoe)
    29th: Wb
    31st: Wb
    37th: GW (Black)
    50th: RW
    61st: Wb
    62nd: Wb
    63rd: Wu (Calcano)

    Humans went from under 10% of the day 2 metagame to 8 of the top 64, 12.5%. We were better than average at converting from day 2 to top 64, so I think it's safe to say that Humans were the breakout deck of the weekend Wink .
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on GP Denver -- Standard -- 12/3-4
    Woo hoo! 2 Flash, 2 aggro, 2 Marvel, Zombies and Panharmonicon.

    Just an anomaly. GP Madrid must be all WU and GB. Oh. 4 Marvel, 2 WU, Zombies and BR Aggro.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on New Pilot Program - Standard Showdowns (Kaladesh)
    Today I went to one of the stores that I went to last week. They had had only 7, but I was curious about how much of that was due to the holiday weekend and some confusing publicity. Today that had 14. Each time about half of participants that had not been regular standard participants. I brought a friend that had never played standard competitively before. We both thought it was fun, and it seemed like a qualified success.

    As I consider this promotion, I wonder whether is is somewhat greedy and self-defeating to be promoting Saturday events. Would it be better to let stores add the packs to the prize pools of their regular tournaments? The store I went to has Saturday evening Modern tournaments, so they scheduled the tournament for 1PM. Very few stores have Standard tournaments on Saturday. This promotion seems unlikely to establish a regular Saturday tournament, so the store will probably just go back to the previous schedule after the promotion ends. If the store could use the promotion to build attendance at the regular Monday Standard tournaments, it seems like that would do more for standard than a short series of oddball tournaments.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on GP Denver -- Standard -- 12/3-4
    Quote from Nevelo »
    Might be a translation error there. I mean you are bold to predict 4 decks other than BG/UW in the Top8.

    I think Rx Aggro is probably the easy call (probably RW of some form). Though I'm hoping for something spicy like monoblack Eldrazi.
    Yeah, just my being separated by a common language. Since I had already called both aggro and control as "other" decks, I thought you were looking for a third "other" deck in addition to aggro and control.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Quote from LordWildMan »
    Posting here with my Bant list and some stories.

    ...

    Went 2-2 in matches last FNM, losing 2-1 to WU flash and 2-1 to a BW list. Mainly I lost due to misplays on my part. Game 3 of the WU flash matchup was insane, where OPP ended up getting 3 Gideon emblems, and casting Briesela twice, after I used Jace to return it to his hand. I ulted Westvale Abbey (Ormendahl, Profane Prince) and the game went to turns, but he ended up taking it with a topdeck Stasis Snare. I did win against WR Vehicles, getting insane opening hands of 2 Hamlet Captains and a Thalia's Lieutenant.

    I think for Bant lists at least 4 Tamiyo's is very necessary. If she sticks on the battlefield she wins games, whether through tapping down creatures or utility lands or simply through incredible drawing power. I will continue running this list and see what happens, but I think the limitations on this deck are mainly with my skill level rather than with the decks ability.

    Nice! Thanks for contributing. I like your list a lot. These are not recommendations as much as things I would want to experiment with in your list: Duskwatch Recruiter, Cloudblazer, Avacyn. I quite like Recruiter against Control and UW. I'm looking forward to hearing more.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Quote from kyle_burns604 »
    Thanks, Hoser!
    I did have a question about the whole Revolutionary Rebuff on a Torrential Gearhulk issue. I was just assuming that you were choosing the flashback spell as the target of the rebuff. Is that not possible? Because if so, that still sounds good to me. The only downside is that they get a big blocker. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
    I agree. The way I inadvertently cheated was that I tried to counter the Gearhulk and my opponent didn't catch that it was an illegal target either. Hence the switch to Spell Shrivel subsequently.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Woohoo! Christmas comes early for Humans!

    Craig Wescoe has a WG Humans list with videos on tcgplayer and, in the Boros Human Burn thread, JoeSchmoe has got some solid results and analysis of a version that harkens back to Donovan Lachney T8 deck from SCG Indianapolis.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on GP Denver -- Standard -- 12/3-4
    Quote from Nevelo »
    Ooh. You are game. What's the most likely "other" deck? RWx Vehicles I guess?
    Uh-oh. Have I stepped in it already? These definitions quickly become a morass. I consider both RWx Vehicles and RBx Madness (the deck you've been working on) as aggro, even though they are midrangier than say, Wescoe's Wb Humans. For other, I immediately think RG or BG Marvel Delirium, but I'm wishcasting at this point. Locally, GB and UW seem so beatable, though. I also imagine a GP field as more diverse than an SCG open, but that could be wrong.

    These definitions, though. It sounds like you don't consider RWx Vehicles an aggro deck. I was thinking I would take the Mardu-splash-U from the Pro Tour top 8 as an aggro deck even. But I fear that arguing classifications could derail the thread, so your initial question makes for clearer answers.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Great work, kyle. I love getting more data on Voltaic Brawler. I can't wait to see what you learn and how you improve the deck when you get more reps in. I'm hoping to get a Showdown in this weekend, and I think I'll rock my Naya list, so still Brawlers, Garrison and Lieutenant. Compared to the 4c, I miss Tamiyo more than Reflector Mage.

    Flash is tough. I think Harnessed Lightning and Champion are pretty good in the matchup. Once you build up your sideboard, another trick would be to side out your fourth of creatures. Then you are less likely to be stuck with 2 in hand, but nothing to play because one was Reflected. I liked Cloudblazer against them, as a 5 drop can't be Spell Quellered. Tears of Valakut is also an option. Recruiter and Pacifist put an odd sort of pressure, as they don't want them flipping. Avacyn and Gisela can be painful, too.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on GP Denver -- Standard -- 12/3-4
    I'll bite. These two don't seem unbeatable. I'm on four. Further, I expect both aggro and control to make top 8.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] The "I Need Help Deciding What To Play!" Thread.
    Quote from Sp3llsling3r »
    ...

    Totally! I agree with pretty much everything you said. I definitely plan on switching over to control at some point, but for now I'm just looking to find my feet and see if this environment is enjoyable for me. That's why I'm looking for a deck on the cheaper side, so if I end up not enjoying myself, I won't have spent much money. Would you recommend Jeskai control as the best control deck at the moment?

    Fact: the last standard showdown I took part in was fairly competitive, Jeskai control came in second and could have easily won.
    Fact: I have a friend who took Grixis Control to win 3 of 4 Game Days.
    Fact: I have never played control well and am currently too enamored of "landfall: draw a card" to seriously try.
    Conclusion: You can win locally with either, In 6 weeks it will change. The pilot and the specific deck configuration are more important than the manabase.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on GP Denver -- Standard -- 12/3-4
    Grand Prix Denver is Standard. It will take place 12/3-4.

    Day 1 coverage will start at noon ET.

    Day 2 coverage will start at 11AM ET.

    Information for the event is here.

    Coverage for the event is here.

    You can discuss the event below. Please remain on topic. Off-topic posts will be marked as spam.

    Root for your fellow MTGS members.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on SCG Invitational Atlanta -- Standard -- 12/2-4
    SCG Invitational Atlanta is mostly Standard. It will take place 12/2-4.

    Coverage will begin at 10:30am ET all three days and will start with Standard.

    Information for the event is here.

    Coverage for the event is here.

    You can discuss the event below. Please remain on topic. Off-topic posts will be marked as spam.

    Thanks!

    -- hoser2
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] The "I Need Help Deciding What To Play!" Thread.
    Quote from Sp3llsling3r »
    Quote from TBuzzsaw »
    UW Flash is technically not an aggro deck and is more of a tempo-midrange. There's also technically 28 creatures if you count Smuggler's Copter and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar.

    Being back into the game I would go with GR Energy. It consist of mostly bulk rares and common/uncommons and should cost you a bit over $100. It's proactive and one of the easier decks to handle, since in my opinion most standard decks right now are NOT newbie friendly.
    Quote from Redgarzz »
    I'd try the G/R energy (pummeler version) deck. Is easy to use, cheap and can make u win in turn 4 with a few cards. If you get tired of the deck u can upgrade it into G/R Aggro or Temur energy so is a great choice imho.


    Thanks for the replies, guys! I'll give G/R Energy a look. I've traditionally been a control player, played some aggro back when delver was at its prime in standard, but it seems like control in particular is in kind of a weird spot right now. I wouldn't say I'm a newbie per say, I played for years, but for some reason the current meta just feels really different to me.

    If you know that you like control, that's fine. If you want to win a Grand Prix maybe you need to worry about your deck choice. For FNM, play what you want. With decent draws, a skilled player can take down an FNM with a number of decks. Last Saturday, I did a 16 person Showdown with GB Delirium. The event was taken down by RG Pummeler and Jeskai Control came in second, but with different pairings, that outcome could have been reversed. Here is Seth Mansfield piloting Jeskai Control in a video. Yeah sure, having your best control card be a midrangy creature is weird, but Standard is supposed to constantly change.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on BG/x Delirium
    Quote from TBuzzsaw »
    Quote from hoser2 »
    ...
    "You rang?"
    Seems pretty good from Martin Dang.


    His opinion is vastly different from Brad Nelson's.


    Cool. Your summary of Brad's Article (did I say thanks? I should have) was great. I thought their analyses of the UW Flash matchup were pretty similar, differing mainly (and significantly) on Grim Flayer. I could imagine both strategies being successful. I like keeping Grim Flayer in, but my somewhat soft local meta (and only 20-25 matches) leaves me unwilling to advise anybody else. Do you think one of them is wrong?
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
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    posted a message on BG/x Delirium
    Quote from ThirdDegree »
    What's everyone's thoughts about GR Marvel? I know it's a very uphill battle for us, but I'm growing more concerned that I'll see it a lot this weekend at GP Denver. Is lost legacy worth it to strip them of Emrakul's? What other SB cards are people using to combat this? And what are the major sideboard plans? I assume pulling in all your hand disruption, but I also feel like you want to be as aggressive as popular? Cut grasps I assume, along with murder and pilgrim's eye. Any thoughts?
    Would you sideboard Lillys out against MARDU vehicles and FLASH UW? I just feel like I cant hit a lot of things except, the 1 playset of toughness 1 dudes they have.

    "You rang?"
    Seems pretty good from Martin Dang.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Quote from hoser2 »
    Woo Hoo! Life in the ol' Humans thread!

    I guess I'll run my 4C brew back again tonight rather than starting to tinker with Esper Processor Control. @WyvernSlayer - yeah, I remember seeing Mysteries in your recommendations before and making a mental note to try it, so I'll give it a whirl. I also forgot to mention in my sideboard notes (because I used the wrong sideboard list): there is no feeling like Revolutionary Rebuff on Torrential Gearhulk. He was riffling through his graveyard before I got to tell the control player: "nope!"



    Sideboarding
    • Control: +1 Ulvenwald Mysteries, +1 Revolutionary Rebuff, +1 Selfless, +1 Nahiri, +1 Tireless Tracker, +1 Cloudblazer, +1 Sigarda, +1 Arlinn Kord, -1 Hanweir Militia Captain, -4 Reflector Mage (keep against Thing in the Ice), -1 Pia, -2 Heron's Grace Champion
    • Aggro: +2 Champion, +1 Selfless, +1 Nahiri, -2 Tracker, -1 Hanweir Militia Captain, -1 Cloudblazer
    • Spirits: +2 Champion, +1 Selfless, +1 Nahiri, +1 Dragonmaster Outcast, +1 Revolutionary Rebuff, +1 Cloudblazer, +1 Sigarda, +2 Fragmentize, -4 Voltaic Brawler, -1 Hanweir Militia Captain, -2 Tamiyo, -2 Tireless, -1 Pia
    • Delirium: +1 Sigarda, +1 Cloudblazer, +1 Hanweir Militia Captain, +1 Tracker, +1 Dragonmaster Outcast, +1 Arlinn Kord, +1 Nahiri, -4 Reflector Mage, -1 Pia, -2 Heron's Grace Champion

    Feedback eagerly solicited!


    I hate to be that guy, But you cheated by accident.
    Rebuff can not hit gearhulk.

    Good catch! That delight became embarrassment and shame when I realized. That slot is now Spell Shrivel. Still great to say no to the no guy, but not worth cheating.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    I got some testing in with Naya Humans last night against an awkward Esper Control deck. Games 2 and 3 even ended up on the local stream at 1:30 in when the main event didn't fire. I punted by missing some Recruiter activations. Voltaic Brawler looked really good in situations where Hamlet Captain wouldn't have been as good. Eldrazi Displacer + Archangel Avacyn earned their honorary human status.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on BG/x Delirium
    Quote from MagicMasterJr »
    Quote from PixelW »
    I've been keeping Lost Legacy in the sideboard for Prized Amalgam more than anything else. Those decks aren't a big part of the metagame, but they can grind you out decisively unless you break their engine - most of which resides in their graveyard safe from Pick the Brain.


    Pick the Brain nabs cards in the graveyard if you have delirium.

    Only if they have one in hand.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
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    posted a message on R/W Tribal Humans
    So no creatures are allowed that aren't of the tribe? But when vehicles turn into non-human creatures, that's okay? Anyway, you seem to be happy with what you've got, so good luck! There is a humans thread that I've been curating, so you could also look there for ideas.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on R/W Tribal Humans
    That's an interesting list. You do not seem to be asking for feedback, so I could just leave it at that.

    If you are interested, my unsolicited feedback would be:
    • I count 9 red sources. I would want more like 12 to have a three drop like Hanweir Garrison. I would want about 14 for Inventor's Apprentice.
    • In a 21 land deck, I have trouble seeing Skysovereign and Descend Upon the Sinful being cast reliably.
    • I count 9 sources of artifacts if you don't cash your Inspector clues. I would want more for Inventor's Apprentice. Keys to the City, Scrapheap Scrounger and Pia Nalaar come to mind.
    • I like Town Gossipmonger as a 1 Drop
    • Reckless Bushwhacker sideboard?
    • Gryf's Boon?
    • Without madness or graveyard synergy, I don't like Lightning Axe or Cathartic Reunion. I think I prefer Stasis Snare to Lightning Axe.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on BG/x Delirium
    Brief Showdown report: I ran the above list to a 7 and a 16 person event, falling in the finals both times. In the first I beat Collossus and RW Burn before losing to GW Tokens. In the second I beat Jund Delirium, drew Jeskai Control, beat UW Flash and lost to RG Energy Pummeler. My worst results have been to these midrange aggro decks that overwhelm me before I can get Emrakul down.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
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    posted a message on New Pilot Program - Standard Showdowns (Kaladesh)
    I went to two of these.
    The first was at a store that I like that normally only has Modern at 6. This tournament was at 1. The information on the website, the Facebook page and the Google calendar were all wrong or missing. There were still 7 people: 4 regulars, 3 new. There was $5 entry, 3 rounds and a pack of both Kaladesh and Showdown per win. Yeah, the numbers don't add up. I went 2-1, got 2 Kaladesh packs and 2 Showdown packs. I saw an expedition, a Grim Flayer and a foil Combustible Gearhulk opened from Showdown packs (I didn't open mine)

    The other store normally has a Saturday standard event that draws about 10 people with $5 entry. The tournament is capped at 16, as it's a small store that has other game and pub things going on. They hit capacity with some new players and distributed the Showdown packs to the top 8 and two other players randomly. A lot of these packs were unopened as people thought they might be more valuable that way. But I saw someone very happy with another Grim Flayer from a Showdown pack and other good rares including Ulamog, so I don't think the Showdown packs are skewed towards crap.

    @xover - ouch. Obviously, now you know to check the local prize structure. D20 in Alameda? published that they give out 1 each to top 4 and 4 randomly (and what about the other two?). I didn't check the 2 places in Berserkly, but they might work better for you.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
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    posted a message on BG/x Delirium
    How do you guys sideboard against the usual tier 1 decks? Is there a sideboard primer?

    There have been quite a few articles published, some with sideboard guides: Ali Aintrazi on the mirror, Paulo on the mirror and Brian Demars more generally.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Voltaic Brawler's ability is once per turn on your turn. It triggers when you declare it as an attacker. If you choose to spend the energy, it gets +1/+1, otherwise no effect.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on BG/x Delirium
    Quote from MagicMasterJr »
    I was thinking of removing the Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and the Nissa, Vital Force for 2x Flaying Tendrils.

    I have not quite figured out how I want to sideboard as I have not had a chance to really explore my sideboarding options.

    I am open to any ideas or suggestions.
    Look, I only have about 8 competitive matches with the aggro version and 16 with the midrange version, so don't take anything I say too seriously.

    But you said it was crunch time and nobody else is helping, so I'll give you my 2 cents that is probably worth even less. I am also still operating off your description of an expected aggro meta.


    I like these proposed changes: I found Flaying Tendrils to be quite good against aggro. Kalitas also seems good against aggro to me, but with 2 in the main already (and 4 Traverse), the third doesn't seem necessary and could be harmful. When you are behind against Aggro, Nissa doesn't seem good either. Obviously, you will get a better read on the meta after tonight.

    Good luck! And report back, please.

    Edit:
    Yet another article: this time by Ali Aintrazi on Gatheringmagic. It includes a sideboarding for the mirror discussion.

    And here's a deck I plan to showdown with (the good deck of the two). Not much of interest, but derived from Ali and Tbuzz's lists with some of my own weirdness. Feedback requested. Yes, I know there's a Verdurous Gearhulk there. Yes, I know that the most successful lists don't run it. I just don't understand why it's bad. So please explain why it's bad when you tell me it's bad.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Craig Wescoe has a Mono-W Humans (splash b for a colorless card) that he calls "The Fastest Deck in Standard." Care to give the other pilots at the Standard Showdown some whiplash?

    Edit: Below is where I ended up with on 4C Humans. I went 8-4-4 with it since I got the manabase "working," including multiple punts. I plan to tinker with Naya Humans lists for the next little while, including in the Standard Showdown, but recommend Wyvernslayer's work, as he seems to have been doing better. This list seems good enough to look over anyway, and differs from the previous version only in the sideboard.

    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Efro featured the R/W humans list that top 832ed the SCG open in his Deck of the Day.
    Edit: Thanks, patbou!
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on BG/x Delirium


    It seems better against the mirror and control, but I don't think you've helped the aggro matchup.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
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    posted a message on BG/x Delirium
    Quote from MagicMasterJr »
    Quote from SpinifexV »
    Quote from MagicMasterJr »
    I 4-0'd FNM Friday. Beat RW Vehicles, BR Vampire something, tough Aetherworks Marvel and Jeskai Control. Some close games in there. I'm going to have to figure something out for Marvel. I was lucky to Pick the Brain marvel. I was thinking about a blue splash to kind of solve it for good.




    It is a well known fact that we cannot really compete that well with Aetherworks Marvel decks. If you are doing well against all other decks, but that one particular deck, I would leave it alone. It is kind like attempting to win the battle, but not the war.

    You can always run more Appetite for Destruction if they are a presence in your meta. Transgress the Mind and Pick the Brain are all excellent card choices.

    I am not sure it is worth splashing blue to beat one deck you may or may not face in any given FNM.


    Aetherworks deck have mostly abandoned Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, which allows us to useLost Legacy. Yes, we cannot name Aetherworks Marvel, but we can name Emrakul, the Promised End and removed their main win condition. Transgress the Mind (I have 2 maindeck) and Pick the brain are also cards to bring in against them.

    Also, Clip Wings could be usefull.


    I am not so sure Clip Wings or Lost Legacy are a good card to sideboard in, or have in the sideboard at all. They just do not seem to give any card advantage 100% of the time.

    I have 3 Transgress the Mind and 2 Pick the Brain sideboarded, if you are that dead set on Lost Legacy, just add in more Pick the Brain, it is almost the same thing when Delirium.


    I have an FNM this Friday and then the Standard Showdown on Saturday...so it is kind of crunch time to make the final decisions on card choices and such.

    ...

    I am stuck on if I should run Nissa, Vital Force or something else. I also have seen people running 1 Pilgrims Eye instead of 2? Anyone have any input on that?

    Would anyone make any changes, and why? I expect an aggro heavy meta with a few control decks.

    The main deck looks pretty stock and pretty sound to me. The Gnarlwood Dryads and the Mindwrack in the sideboard seem most questionable to me. In an Aggro Meta, I would consider Flaying Tendrils over the Dryads and maybe Gonti or Nissa over the sideboard Mindwrack.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    @kyle - I am very interested in both what you learn from testing and your tournament report.
    I am hoping to do two showdowns myself on the 26th. Currently, I plan to tune up my Naya Humans for one of them.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Esper Processor Control
    My list above has 9 colorless sources. Getting it up to 11 or 12 would be better, but seems possible. 4 Aether Hubs, 4 Evolving Wilds and a Wastes nearly gets us there.

    I think Esper is a given. Transgress, Strangler, Unmaking and Nullifier force B. Queller, Nullifier, and Spell Shrivel induce U. White is needed for Queller, Unmaking and Warden. I think the question is what, if any, double colors you want to support. I find WW (Stasis Snare, Quarantine Field) and BB (Kalitas, Liliana) worth trying. Trying for fewer double colors makes it easier to have more colorless sources.

    I look forward to seeing your ideas and refining these concepts. My tests so far have been promising. This deck has lots of power.

    Edit: Here is another take on Esper Processor featured on GatheringMagic.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on BG/x Delirium
    I 4-0'd FNM Friday. Beat RW Vehicles, BR Vampire something, tough Aetherworks Marvel and Jeskai Control. Some close games in there. I'm going to have to figure something out for Marvel. I was lucky to Pick the Brain marvel. I was thinking about a blue splash to kind of solve it for good.

    Nice work! I have also felt the temptation to splash U. The biggest thing holding me back is Thalia, which is a partial answer some decks run against us. More nonbasic lands means even slower deployment against UW Flash, which can run Thalia and is already only too happy to tempo us out.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
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    posted a message on Humans
    Quote from kyle_burns604 »
    Hey Hoser,

    Please bear with me, I'm new to mtgsalvation so I'm unsure of how to utilize it's mechanics. I've always loved humans, so after seeing your 4 color I had to try it out. I'm still trying to gather all the cards together (missing Tamiyo). After some small testing, I'm finding that when I can actually cast Voltaic Brawler, I usually have something better I could be doing. In your opinion, is he exchangable in the deck? If so, for what? The only cards I could think of would be Oviya, or Hamlet Captain. Looking forward to hear what you think.
    Additionally, I really enjoy hearing about everyone's results with the deck.

    Welcome to Mtgsalvation and the Humans, kyle_burns604!
    Since Voltaic Brawler was released, I have played about 5 competitive matches with Naya Humans and about 15 competitive matches with 4 color, all including Brawler. I haven't been satisfied with my ability to cast it before I had at least 15 R and G sources. So I would say that only about 10 competitive matches have been relevant. So let's call it 25 games. Statistically, I should have had it by turn 3 in about 12 games. That seems about right. I can remember three games where his being a 4/3 trample was vital in closing out games.

    Is he good? Everything is relative. What are the alternatives? Hamlet Captain, Thraben Inspector, Town Gossipmonger, Expedition Envoy, Duskwatch Recruiter, Selfless Spirit, Lambholt Pacifist, Blossoming Defense, Oviya Pashere Declaration in Stone, Anticipate, Incendiary Flow, Smuggler's Copter; really, any combination of four of the above may be better. Honestly, I don't know. I am still collecting data.

    Here is what I've got. We can't wait to get on board. I don't think Inspector represents enough pressure. I think we need at least 10 2 drops and at least 10 3 drops. Hamlet Captain is great when I keep Garrison on the board. My problem was that, too often, I found myself attacking with only Hamlet Captain. Hamlet Captain wasn't enough pressure by himself.

    I have a winning record at FNM level. With better lists or better piloting, I think we can win some of these. I am eager to see and learn from the insights, experiments and conclusions you will bring to the deck.
    Posted in: Established (Standard)
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    posted a message on Esper Processor Control
    Thanks for the feedback! You hit the nail on the head. This is a labor of love for my totemic Eldrazi. If I need to be competitive, I can just play Delirium. If I want to have fun and a winning record at FNM, I have my Naya and 4C Humans. If we can get this to be an alternative that has a chance to win an FNM level event, I will be overjoyed!
    You have identified many of the issues I see:
    • mana base
    • exilers and processors together and balanced
    • mana curve is really a mana spike
    • do we just fold to aggro
    • Is Displacer just too slow and vulnerable
    • there are a lot of dead cards against control and combo, can we put together a post-board game that will work there
    Still, there is some power here, we have options, and I am 1-0 in practice matches. I may add some thoughts on addressing these issues later.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on Esper Processor Control
    Step 1: Decide whether to post in a somewhat similar thread in Established, necro an old thread or start a new thread.

    Unplayable cards? Yes. So don't post this in Esper/UB Control in Established.

    Standard forum rules say:
    If you want to post a new thread in this forum, please check and make sure there isn't already a thread on the same topic.

    and
    You are more than welcome to necro old threads in this forum.

    Cool. Necroing it is then. Good thing I'm not a mod who should have archived the original thread a month ago.

    Here is my starting point. Supportive feedback welcomed. You don't need to tell me that this isn't as good as G/B Delirium or UW Flash. I know. Please tell me how to make it better!
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on G/W Humans
    It's really interesting that we can have such different game plans with the same cards. With Naya and 4C, I have focused on abusing Hanweir Garrison. The Naya builds had both Avacyn and Champion. I have never leaned heavily on Selfless Spirits.
    I tend to run more Duskwatch than Pacifist, but that could just be due to my propensity to grind.
    That other GW list is obviously more aggressive. More Champions also allows for more chances to pass turn and flip werewolves. I can see the more aggressive approach being a good approach for the unknown meta of SCG regionals.
    I do think Champion may deserve another chance, depending on your meta. The life swings tend to put the game out of reach for Thermo, Fevered and other burn decks (a local presence for me). The sudden anthem has also spelled unexpected demise for any number of Things, Thermo-alchemist, Weaver of Lightnings and Amalgams. The lifelink body can be an issue against UW, where there will always be a window to cast it.
    I look forward to seeing more of your results and possible deck evolution.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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    posted a message on G/W Humans
    Nice work!

    I had really good results in the last standard with Naya Humans. I have had positive results to yours with my four color brew in the current standard. The card I'm surprised not to see in your list is Heron's Grace Champion. In some matchups, it is nearly "game over." I am also not so sure that I would want four of a legendary like Thalia.

    In any case, please feel invited to join or peruse the generic Humans thread. The OP has a link to the best-performing of various variants. For example, this version of G/W top8ed an SCG Regionals.

    While W/R seems to have the most success, I am excited to see your work and hear of your results. With your permision, I will link to this thread from the generic Humans.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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