I think hazoret in a vaccum. Modern decks are already adopting it as a way to fight Jund in the format. Modern pushes you towards cheap answers, so with the exception of path to exile, there aren't a whole lot of commonly played answers to get rid of it. Push has had the most impact obviously.
The scarab God comes in at a solid number 2. I think this is less to do with the power level of the card and more to it being a product of its environment. For example, in KTK/BFZ standard scarab god would have been a bulk mythic most likely(even abzan at the time was cutting down on Gideon, AOZ, a very powerful card). The current environment just has us playing mostly underpowered cards all across the curve, and the cards that deal with scarab god cleanly are expensive. For example, outside of counters the most commonly played answer are contempt and cast out at 4 cmc. These are cheaper the TSG, but in the normal curve of a game are still very inneficient, but necessary.
I find scarab god interesting in that it really shows you how set design can warp standard a lot. If contempt was 3 cmc for example, I don't think scarab god would be nearly as big of a problem, but would force much of the format into black to deal with it. Its the same with something like cast out being 3 cmc. I don't think threats justify answers, but answers definitly justify threats, and while I personally think the answers in current standard are just slightly underpowered compared to TSG, its reasonable to expect that we can't always have it all.
It would be interesting to see what play design thought of TSG in testing.
In current standard no, the format is to weak overall for that kind of effect. There were definitely some standards that could have really benefited from it. But who knows? Maybe blue would be to strong. Theres a lot of games now where you really have to decide between two things because your picking between holding up negate or cancel, maybe this was intentional on there part. Cards like counterspell do make for less decisions.
What is the correct split of Settle the Wreckage / Fumigate? I currently run 3/2 since Settle deals with Hazoret. Another card I am considering is Slash of Talons which is good as slowing down aggressive starts from mono red and even deals with Glint Sleeve Siphoner out of Grixis or Sultai energy.
I am playing four settle main and 3 fumigate with another fumigate in the board because we have a lot of g/x monster midrange at my LGS. Its fine and it makes for really easy SB swapping against U/X control decks for negates and grindy cards.
Siphoner is always a pain. Some people run baffling end specifically to deal with cards like him, but I never liked it because I felt like it was to narrow and always felt like a liability.
Im curious what your list is however, Ive found the mono red MU is a good one. My hard matchups have been sultai constrictor(trample, they only have to swing with one guy and ballista can just chill and kill you) and the G/W tokens decks can be somewhat tough to, as well as grixis post board with negates and duress. U/X control are a complete joke and even G/x midrange with four MB brontodons has been pretty easy, they just can't beat getting swept over and over again.
Been having a lot of success with the matt nass version lately, its pretty well built and once you start playing with it you can see some of the minor card choices and slots were very well thought out. The sideboard is situational, but thats to be expected for modern. I have also found that the SB doesn't matter to much as your pretty much always trying to go for the turn 4.
Im currently 21-9 at my LGS, which probably translates to more like 55-45 when you take into account experience gap. I like the Emrakul version with hangarback because you can always make sure you actually kill them on the extra turn. Def feels like a lot of post board games come down to whether they have there SB hate in there opening hand, im making a lot of super risky mulls to find claim more often.
Also running a 1 of helix pinnacle in the board, more of a joke, but I needed it against lantern as we have three or four of them at my LGS. The MB engineered have been really clutch as well, allowing you to have more zero drops for mana, and getting rid of random permanants, its also an out to MB wierd stuff like Blood moon when you really need your fair or burial unlocked.
Ive found that g1 I mull a hand if it doesn't have a mox or a mind stone. I also fear that if opal gets banned the deck will pretty much die, as least this version. You rely on it way to much for free mana when your going off with trawler.
I have been having issues however with opponents not scooping to the actual loop of trawler+two myr and trinkets. I don't think they understand that I can now draw my deck at will, or don't beleive me when I explain it. I do wish "going off" was faster, some OP won't let you shortcut and make you announce and play out everything even though the only way you can lose at that point is somehow drawing five or six lands in a row.
Make a list of hoser cards that can be made legal at anytime in standard. Cards like;
Rest in peace
stony silence
nihil spellbomb
eidilon of rhetoric
Have them randomly replace the token or basic land in packs so that supply is plenty and everybody has easy access to them. This way if a format needs a problem solved in a pinch they can just make a card legal on short notice. If something like delirium had become to powerful, just make RIP or nihil spellbomb legal. This way we don't have to wait for new sets to come out to fix issues in case wizards makes a mistake again.
Maybe its just how it is now a days but I couldn't sit through another PT where there were no new decks it seems. Its probably just how its going to be now a days, but I used to watch them to see a team break the format, that hasn't happened since eldrazi. The last time we saw a brand new deck top a PT was turbo emrakul if I recall correctly.
I'm not sure having a super team break the format is always good for the format.
Turbo Emrakul was literally just last fall at PT Kaladesh. Not that long ago.
And, technically, Turbo Emrakul had a variety of MODO 5-0s, so it was a known entity going in.
They don't have to break it, there just isn't anything new at the PT anymore it seems. And if thats true then that just makes my point further(also it was EMN).
Maybe its just how it is now a days but I couldn't sit through another PT where there were no new decks it seems. Its probably just how its going to be now a days, but I used to watch them to see a team break the format, that hasn't happened since eldrazi. The last time we saw a brand new deck top a PT was turbo emrakul if I recall correctly.
Is it mandatory playing Ancestral Vision in this deck? I've seen versions without them. Which version do you like the most, with or without AV and why? How many lands are the correct number in this archetype?
I would only run an AV version now. Being able to just send it away t1 and then just have to survive is really strong in a deck like this. Plus you have all your mana when you draw the cards. Im sure theres a version of the deck that doesn't want AV, but I don't think its just a card choice in the stock lists.
So after 10 leagues with the As Foretold version of the deck I can say im off it. I kept excel spreadsheets of data as I always do and compared it to regular U/W control for reference. I also put in the spreadsheet which changes I made after each league to the deck, the core of the deck never changed. I noticed I was slowly trickling down on As Foretold as the matches went on, first I cut to 3, then 2, and considered going to 1 but realized that I wouldn't be playing an as Foretold deck anymore, it would just be U/W with a spicy one of like you see with crucible sometimes. The only other concession I made in the deck for As Foretold for testing purposes was 2 Tolaria West, which eventually went down to 1.
My biggest concern with As Foretold over regular UW was that some of my good MU percentages were going down directly because of As Foretold. The DS MU got worse because I have another card they don't care about in my deck. This is not where I want to be right now, even MU like Eldrazi, Eldrazi Tron and Affinity got worse because I need to be a pure CAB deck in those MU, and As Foretold takes a long time to make up for itself.
Initially I was pretty impressed with it. There were some cool t4's where you can serum off of as foretold, wrath there board and hold up path still. Having "six" mana on t4 is a pretty big deal for a blue control deck. However I probably would have been just as good if it had been another peice of interaction. However, that being said, I do think there is something there for As Foretold. I don't know what kind of shell, or if it will take a completely different UW shell or deck shell all together but I think it has a lot of potential. The card definitely tickles the Johny in me as well, casting Elspeth for free, drawing three cards for 0 mana and holding up five different cards on OP's turn feels great.
Coincidentally, when I went back to testing regular UW, the fist league I did I 5-0d and it just feels much better.
-------------------------------------
To add to that I would like to emphasize that I think there is something there, but I don't think just putting it in a mostly normal U/W shell is correct.
To expand a bit more, reactive blue decks want to get stronger as the game progresses. But As Foretold gets weaker as the game progresses, unlike something like Sphinx's Revelation. Maybe the rest of the deck + looting can make up for it - we'll only find out from brewing and testing and seeing if any lists show results.
If anything this is why I'm interested in it. One of the big issues about late game bombs is closing out the game. As Foretold helps control get to a point where it can close out.
Actually what I liked most about it in UW was being able to tap out for a bomb like elspeth and still be able to hold up interaction. A lot of times you get stuck on 6 or seven lands in UW, and you don't want to leave your win con vulnerable. Theres also the horror story "tap out for unbeatable bomb, OP topdecks pulse GG". Snapcaster pretty much just being "flash this spell back for its CMC, get a free 2/1 was also great, it lets you do stuff like flashback a cryptic with only 4 lands in play.
So after 10 leagues with the As Foretold version of the deck I can say im off it. I kept excel spreadsheets of data as I always do and compared it to regular U/W control for reference. I also put in the spreadsheet which changes I made after each league to the deck, the core of the deck never changed. I noticed I was slowly trickling down on As Foretold as the matches went on, first I cut to 3, then 2, and considered going to 1 but realized that I wouldn't be playing an as Foretold deck anymore, it would just be U/W with a spicy one of like you see with crucible sometimes. The only other concession I made in the deck for As Foretold for testing purposes was 2 Tolaria West, which eventually went down to 1.
My biggest concern with As Foretold over regular UW was that some of my good MU percentages were going down directly because of As Foretold. The DS MU got worse because I have another card they don't care about in my deck. This is not where I want to be right now, even MU like Eldrazi, Eldrazi Tron and Affinity got worse because I need to be a pure CAB deck in those MU, and As Foretold takes a long time to make up for itself.
Initially I was pretty impressed with it. There were some cool t4's where you can serum off of as foretold, wrath there board and hold up path still. Having "six" mana on t4 is a pretty big deal for a blue control deck. However I probably would have been just as good if it had been another peice of interaction. However, that being said, I do think there is something there for As Foretold. I don't know what kind of shell, or if it will take a completely different UW shell or deck shell all together but I think it has a lot of potential. The card definitely tickles the Johny in me as well, casting Elspeth for free, drawing three cards for 0 mana and holding up five different cards on OP's turn feels great.
Coincidentally, when I went back to testing regular UW, the fist league I did I 5-0d and it just feels much better.
Im pretty sure this is a "kitchen table" masters, but they obviously can't call it that. At least thats what all the vague wording hoo hah makes it seem like.
So... can anyone tell me the rarity shift for this? Did this card really destroyed limtied in the past to justifie a rarity bump?
I would rather it be mythic then rare for limited anyway because then you have less chance of pulling a bad rare. However depending on how many splicers they print it might not have been terrible.
Im just glad they are keeping mostly jank at mythic and not just a bunch of playable cards that really needed a reprint. Although I hate this card in limited.
The scarab God comes in at a solid number 2. I think this is less to do with the power level of the card and more to it being a product of its environment. For example, in KTK/BFZ standard scarab god would have been a bulk mythic most likely(even abzan at the time was cutting down on Gideon, AOZ, a very powerful card). The current environment just has us playing mostly underpowered cards all across the curve, and the cards that deal with scarab god cleanly are expensive. For example, outside of counters the most commonly played answer are contempt and cast out at 4 cmc. These are cheaper the TSG, but in the normal curve of a game are still very inneficient, but necessary.
I find scarab god interesting in that it really shows you how set design can warp standard a lot. If contempt was 3 cmc for example, I don't think scarab god would be nearly as big of a problem, but would force much of the format into black to deal with it. Its the same with something like cast out being 3 cmc. I don't think threats justify answers, but answers definitly justify threats, and while I personally think the answers in current standard are just slightly underpowered compared to TSG, its reasonable to expect that we can't always have it all.
It would be interesting to see what play design thought of TSG in testing.
I am playing four settle main and 3 fumigate with another fumigate in the board because we have a lot of g/x monster midrange at my LGS. Its fine and it makes for really easy SB swapping against U/X control decks for negates and grindy cards.
Siphoner is always a pain. Some people run baffling end specifically to deal with cards like him, but I never liked it because I felt like it was to narrow and always felt like a liability.
Im curious what your list is however, Ive found the mono red MU is a good one. My hard matchups have been sultai constrictor(trample, they only have to swing with one guy and ballista can just chill and kill you) and the G/W tokens decks can be somewhat tough to, as well as grixis post board with negates and duress. U/X control are a complete joke and even G/x midrange with four MB brontodons has been pretty easy, they just can't beat getting swept over and over again.
Im currently 21-9 at my LGS, which probably translates to more like 55-45 when you take into account experience gap. I like the Emrakul version with hangarback because you can always make sure you actually kill them on the extra turn. Def feels like a lot of post board games come down to whether they have there SB hate in there opening hand, im making a lot of super risky mulls to find claim more often.
Also running a 1 of helix pinnacle in the board, more of a joke, but I needed it against lantern as we have three or four of them at my LGS. The MB engineered have been really clutch as well, allowing you to have more zero drops for mana, and getting rid of random permanants, its also an out to MB wierd stuff like Blood moon when you really need your fair or burial unlocked.
Ive found that g1 I mull a hand if it doesn't have a mox or a mind stone. I also fear that if opal gets banned the deck will pretty much die, as least this version. You rely on it way to much for free mana when your going off with trawler.
I have been having issues however with opponents not scooping to the actual loop of trawler+two myr and trinkets. I don't think they understand that I can now draw my deck at will, or don't beleive me when I explain it. I do wish "going off" was faster, some OP won't let you shortcut and make you announce and play out everything even though the only way you can lose at that point is somehow drawing five or six lands in a row.
Rest in peace
stony silence
nihil spellbomb
eidilon of rhetoric
Have them randomly replace the token or basic land in packs so that supply is plenty and everybody has easy access to them. This way if a format needs a problem solved in a pinch they can just make a card legal on short notice. If something like delirium had become to powerful, just make RIP or nihil spellbomb legal. This way we don't have to wait for new sets to come out to fix issues in case wizards makes a mistake again.
They don't have to break it, there just isn't anything new at the PT anymore it seems. And if thats true then that just makes my point further(also it was EMN).
I would only run an AV version now. Being able to just send it away t1 and then just have to survive is really strong in a deck like this. Plus you have all your mana when you draw the cards. Im sure theres a version of the deck that doesn't want AV, but I don't think its just a card choice in the stock lists.
So after 10 leagues with the As Foretold version of the deck I can say im off it. I kept excel spreadsheets of data as I always do and compared it to regular U/W control for reference. I also put in the spreadsheet which changes I made after each league to the deck, the core of the deck never changed. I noticed I was slowly trickling down on As Foretold as the matches went on, first I cut to 3, then 2, and considered going to 1 but realized that I wouldn't be playing an as Foretold deck anymore, it would just be U/W with a spicy one of like you see with crucible sometimes. The only other concession I made in the deck for As Foretold for testing purposes was 2 Tolaria West, which eventually went down to 1.
My biggest concern with As Foretold over regular UW was that some of my good MU percentages were going down directly because of As Foretold. The DS MU got worse because I have another card they don't care about in my deck. This is not where I want to be right now, even MU like Eldrazi, Eldrazi Tron and Affinity got worse because I need to be a pure CAB deck in those MU, and As Foretold takes a long time to make up for itself.
Initially I was pretty impressed with it. There were some cool t4's where you can serum off of as foretold, wrath there board and hold up path still. Having "six" mana on t4 is a pretty big deal for a blue control deck. However I probably would have been just as good if it had been another peice of interaction. However, that being said, I do think there is something there for As Foretold. I don't know what kind of shell, or if it will take a completely different UW shell or deck shell all together but I think it has a lot of potential. The card definitely tickles the Johny in me as well, casting Elspeth for free, drawing three cards for 0 mana and holding up five different cards on OP's turn feels great.
Coincidentally, when I went back to testing regular UW, the fist league I did I 5-0d and it just feels much better.
-------------------------------------
To add to that I would like to emphasize that I think there is something there, but I don't think just putting it in a mostly normal U/W shell is correct.
Actually what I liked most about it in UW was being able to tap out for a bomb like elspeth and still be able to hold up interaction. A lot of times you get stuck on 6 or seven lands in UW, and you don't want to leave your win con vulnerable. Theres also the horror story "tap out for unbeatable bomb, OP topdecks pulse GG". Snapcaster pretty much just being "flash this spell back for its CMC, get a free 2/1 was also great, it lets you do stuff like flashback a cryptic with only 4 lands in play.
My biggest concern with As Foretold over regular UW was that some of my good MU percentages were going down directly because of As Foretold. The DS MU got worse because I have another card they don't care about in my deck. This is not where I want to be right now, even MU like Eldrazi, Eldrazi Tron and Affinity got worse because I need to be a pure CAB deck in those MU, and As Foretold takes a long time to make up for itself.
Initially I was pretty impressed with it. There were some cool t4's where you can serum off of as foretold, wrath there board and hold up path still. Having "six" mana on t4 is a pretty big deal for a blue control deck. However I probably would have been just as good if it had been another peice of interaction. However, that being said, I do think there is something there for As Foretold. I don't know what kind of shell, or if it will take a completely different UW shell or deck shell all together but I think it has a lot of potential. The card definitely tickles the Johny in me as well, casting Elspeth for free, drawing three cards for 0 mana and holding up five different cards on OP's turn feels great.
Coincidentally, when I went back to testing regular UW, the fist league I did I 5-0d and it just feels much better.
I would rather it be mythic then rare for limited anyway because then you have less chance of pulling a bad rare. However depending on how many splicers they print it might not have been terrible.