The game against miracles goes so long you could literally cast teferi or sphinx of the final word and laugh. What are they going to do, STP it post-board?
Is there a way to make this actually consistent with inverter of truth? Rather than play emrakul you just make a loop with inverter, get a ton of zombies(with a single bridge from below)(first loop you sacrifice a narco to a therapy and the res inverter of truth) and then you kill them with a hasty dude from the grave (so you need 1 bridge, 2 dread return, 4 narcos + flame kin zealot). great part about the combo is that you only can double cabal therapy on the lead up because invert of truth + 7 zombies with +1/+1 is still lethal. Yes, it uses the combat step so it doesn't win at instant speed, but it seems like a good idea.
Disagree entirely. Against show and tell we want to force them to drop something down against us and deal with it from there. Sculler only deals with what's in their hand. All of our other hate cards hate out their deck regardless of the zone that something is present in. Sculler is literally just a "I hope you don't have sneak attack or multiple creatures in hand".
Sculler's uses are vague/undefined (you "improvise" with how it is used because the card becomes worse as the board-state progresses.) Cards in the main deck should never be about the value they generate (especially temporary value like that of sculler's), but rather the problems it addresses in any gamestate: even if the card is addressing the problem with more redundancy
Personally, whenever I make a list I never EVER EVER think about "wow, I can't wait to cast this turn 2 for all of this value", but rather I react accordingly to possible future gamestates and the volatile nature of the hand, deck, board, and graveyard in the format. I understand my opponent can draw three cards and find lightning bolt, getting back their forked bolt. I understand that topdeck sculler mid-to-late game is basically dead in grindy matchups. Cards like thalia, revoker, mom, avenger, mangara are never dead. EVER.
Basically, don't play sculler. It's really. REALLY. REALLY bad. There's also a reason the mono-white version of the deck has consistently been the best version for 8 or so years, but I don't want to get into that because for some reason people think they can improve the deck by weakening a resilient basic-heavy manabase with strong creature synergies by adding things that don't fit the overall goal of the deck
Your list seems fine, there are some thing I don't like. I don't like tidehallow sculler much in our deck because he's kinda just a bear. The deal with Death and Taxes is that it doesn't care about its opponent's hand, it really just cares that it can deal with what the opponent can throw at it, REGARDLESS OF WHERE THAT CARD IS (In deck, graveyard, hand, battlefield)
If you're expecting grixis and the mirror I would just load up on like 2 maindeck pontiffs instead of sculler and a 3rd sideboard with a warping wail or two in there as well (good against shardless, the mirror, ANT. This card also helps vs show and tell as I see you have dropped some MD show and tell hate in order to play more into the fair matchups. )
Avenger is pretty solid card. Play her. Especially if you're expecting Delver decks and the mirror. She is pretty unfair.
cavern of souls and mishra's factory are both additional colorless sources. If you're in splash version you can also run painlands because they produce colorless. If one is using the colorless lands plan we also got a nice little removal spell out of this next set that can get around swords and mom.
Eldazi Displacer might replace spellskite for me. The card is f-kin ridiculous. Either that or I'll find a maindeck spot for it that doesn't get rid of the skite (3 mana is steep, and being good against infect is something I value). All of the combat tricks it does. All of the flickerwisp tricks. Not to mention that wit 6 mana your miracles opponent cannot boardwhipe you.
Finn's list is always a good place to start (I don't know much about him as a player, but his lists have always been a solid foundation for me). I think he has a great knowledge of what the deck's core should be, though I don't think the mangara combo is best thing to be doing right now (our gameplan should really be more equipment focused with neat little tempo plays). 3-4 Karakas is always the right number, especially because the maindeck is always in flux (I have been on three for the past 2 years and have not complaints about it. This was after being on 4 for about a year).
I also play Vanilla DnT. This is the list I will be playing at the upcoming grand prix. I highly recommend trying out spellskite (as founder of the spellskite bandwagon). Solid card that really helps the equipment plan shine in the matchups the mangara and the equipment plan both struggle in (also helps in Jitte mirrors and is beyond stellar against infect).
@Medea, did not type it wrong, I was more looking at spots to trim in my sideboard for the 2x vryn wingmare (bringing em in against BUG and Miracles. I still want Mirran Crusader in the maindeck since I'm already running 6 fliers, and need some bodies that can laugh at Green Creatures)
top 8'd a GPT with a pretty standard list (of mine, that is). Had brimaz, aven mindcensor, mangara, and 4x wisp as my 3 drops. Was on 4x revoker plan,, with 1 maindeck spellskite. 3 equips.
My sideboard consisted of Cata, standard combo hate (RIP, SOTL, Canon, cage), and then 2x council's judgement and 1x dismember. I had a manrikiri gusari that was basically useless all day as well. Hit a lot of non-meta things, so not really worth writing a tournament report. Lost to the same player in round 1 and first round of top 8 to turn 1 or turn 2 combo out of ANT in 4 games (2 in top 8, 2 in swiss).
Probably going to throw 2 silences in the sideboard as a tempo play against miracles, and to timewalk myself against combo.
went 5-1 in swiss, but I found of own performance to be more frustrating rather than rewarding (I played sloppily, a lot of my opponent's played sloppily, and in the end I just lost to dumb luck)
general thoughts are that gusari and sotl are practically useless in the current metagame (if you're playing spellskite it can just take the place of gusari, does a lot more). Sotl is meh. We don't need it to beat blue decks (except for Omni which has mostly died down.)
sorry from crappy tournament report, still a bit salty from my whole performance, and my wrists hurt (tendonitis) too much for me to want to work on anything substantial or time-consuming
@stoneforge discussion: if you're playing anything less than 4 in this meta full of miracles you're playing the deck wrong.
4x flickerwisp is definitely a must right now
in game two against storm revoker is often times the better turn 2 play (over thalia and rest in peace). name petal if you see two basic island, any other combination is LED.
A few questions about the current state of the deck:
How necessary is oreskos?
Why did we decide anafenza was not maindeckable?
What is the status of vryn wingmare over ethersworn canonist as mainboarded card (especially in conjunction with spellskite)
Cataclysm is definitely bad now, right?
What are we doing to combat omni-tell? Does the deck in this meta focus more on mana denial, or stax-style "Your spells are kinda useless" style (not that the two are mutually exclusive)
Sculler's uses are vague/undefined (you "improvise" with how it is used because the card becomes worse as the board-state progresses.) Cards in the main deck should never be about the value they generate (especially temporary value like that of sculler's), but rather the problems it addresses in any gamestate: even if the card is addressing the problem with more redundancy
Personally, whenever I make a list I never EVER EVER think about "wow, I can't wait to cast this turn 2 for all of this value", but rather I react accordingly to possible future gamestates and the volatile nature of the hand, deck, board, and graveyard in the format. I understand my opponent can draw three cards and find lightning bolt, getting back their forked bolt. I understand that topdeck sculler mid-to-late game is basically dead in grindy matchups. Cards like thalia, revoker, mom, avenger, mangara are never dead. EVER.
Basically, don't play sculler. It's really. REALLY. REALLY bad. There's also a reason the mono-white version of the deck has consistently been the best version for 8 or so years, but I don't want to get into that because for some reason people think they can improve the deck by weakening a resilient basic-heavy manabase with strong creature synergies by adding things that don't fit the overall goal of the deck
If you're expecting grixis and the mirror I would just load up on like 2 maindeck pontiffs instead of sculler and a 3rd sideboard with a warping wail or two in there as well (good against shardless, the mirror, ANT. This card also helps vs show and tell as I see you have dropped some MD show and tell hate in order to play more into the fair matchups. )
Avenger is pretty solid card. Play her. Especially if you're expecting Delver decks and the mirror. She is pretty unfair.
lost to sneak and show after he blindly topdecked 3 pyroclasms, 4 griselbrands, and an emrakul
lost to sneak and show again
lost to miracles because **** monastery mentor
I also play Vanilla DnT. This is the list I will be playing at the upcoming grand prix. I highly recommend trying out spellskite (as founder of the spellskite bandwagon). Solid card that really helps the equipment plan shine in the matchups the mangara and the equipment plan both struggle in (also helps in Jitte mirrors and is beyond stellar against infect).
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 AEther Vial
9 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Karakas
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Spellskite
4 Mother of Runes
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Serra Avenger
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Rest in Peace
2 Council's Judgment
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Vryn Wingmare
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
4 Flickerwisp
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 AEther Vial
9 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Karakas
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Spellskite
4 Mother of Runes
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Serra Avenger
SB: 2 Cataclysm
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Dismember
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
I want to fit two Vryn Wingmare and an e-tutor + COP red into this 75, but I'm having trouble making space. Any suggestions on cuts?
http://www.twitch.tv/luluphd
My sideboard consisted of Cata, standard combo hate (RIP, SOTL, Canon, cage), and then 2x council's judgement and 1x dismember. I had a manrikiri gusari that was basically useless all day as well. Hit a lot of non-meta things, so not really worth writing a tournament report. Lost to the same player in round 1 and first round of top 8 to turn 1 or turn 2 combo out of ANT in 4 games (2 in top 8, 2 in swiss).
Probably going to throw 2 silences in the sideboard as a tempo play against miracles, and to timewalk myself against combo.
went 5-1 in swiss, but I found of own performance to be more frustrating rather than rewarding (I played sloppily, a lot of my opponent's played sloppily, and in the end I just lost to dumb luck)
general thoughts are that gusari and sotl are practically useless in the current metagame (if you're playing spellskite it can just take the place of gusari, does a lot more). Sotl is meh. We don't need it to beat blue decks (except for Omni which has mostly died down.)
sorry from crappy tournament report, still a bit salty from my whole performance, and my wrists hurt (tendonitis) too much for me to want to work on anything substantial or time-consuming
@stoneforge discussion: if you're playing anything less than 4 in this meta full of miracles you're playing the deck wrong.
4x flickerwisp is definitely a must right now
in game two against storm revoker is often times the better turn 2 play (over thalia and rest in peace). name petal if you see two basic island, any other combination is LED.
A few questions about the current state of the deck:
How necessary is oreskos?
Why did we decide anafenza was not maindeckable?
What is the status of vryn wingmare over ethersworn canonist as mainboarded card (especially in conjunction with spellskite)
Cataclysm is definitely bad now, right?
What are we doing to combat omni-tell? Does the deck in this meta focus more on mana denial, or stax-style "Your spells are kinda useless" style (not that the two are mutually exclusive)
Mangara of Corondor: What matchups, and why?
It's good to be back.