18 is not bad, hopefully they do another soon. I hope to be able to make it to Critical Hit on the 4th.
I made a mistake my first post, the 12th is the correct date for the Core's legacy for lands tournament. Thanks for posting that along with the facebook link.
Yeah no problem! Sorry to steal your thunder. I missed that you mentioned this tournament in your previous posting. I am pretty pumped about the amount of legacy suddenly picking up in Iowa though and excited to get to this tournament.
Once a month, usually the 2nd Sunday, at Trademart, in Moline, Illinois, there is a Legacy tournament, and for the last 2 it's been $10 entry with 100% prize payout. I'm not certain when the next one is, due to the holiday season, but if you contact the store, the owner should tell you.
If people around the area can be bothered to show up, it's a good scene.
Thanks for the heads up!
I found this after googling the shop name... http://magic.tcgplayer.com/maxpoint/events.asp?ID=474&storeid=136 which I might be tempted to try and attend. Although Moline would be a bit of trek for me. I bet duelers that live in Eastern Iowa could ramble on over across the Mississippi once a month.
Went to Jay's over the weekend for the 10 proxy legacy event and we had 18 peeps show up! Not a bad turnout I thought.
For archtypes we had...
Punishing Maverick, Esper True Blade, TES, Slivers, Stifle-Nought, Pox, Sneak and Show, Nic-Fit, Dark Maverick, and some other rogue decks floating around.
Also, for folks up in Cedar Falls. The Core is having a legacy tournament with duals for prizes on January 12th.
I also have heard that on January 4th Critical Hit Games is going to have the monthly legacy tournament. It's not on the calendar, but hopefully it will be added soon for confirmation
Yeah, if enough people are coming out for these I would be up for driving up to check it out maybe once a month or something. It will be hard to find the time to come up every week.
Also in Des Moines Jay's Hobby is having a legacy tournament on Saturday Dec. 7th and Mayhem Comics is having a legacy tournament on Dec. 29th. Both of these tournaments allow for 10 proxy cards.
JAYS LEGACY TOURNAMENT:
Dec 7th, 12 (noon)
7$ entry free, two packs a player and store credit to top finishers based on players entered.
MAYHEM LEGACY TOURNAMENT:
Dec 29th, 12 (noon)
Ten card proxy!
Entry Fee: $10
Prizes: First Place gets 4 sealed Onslaught Starter Decks, Second gets 2 sealed Onslaught Starter Decks, and 3/4 get one Sealed Onslaught Starter deck. If we get more than sixteen players we will also give out 150% the cash entries and 100% of the store credit entries back in store credit prizes.
Sorry Thursdays stopped working out at Critical Hit
For me personally. Weekends work best to play in Iowa City at Critical Hit. I couldn't do weekly (two hours one way from Ames), but I would be game for a monthly at the least! As long as they correctly list it on their website or if it was advertised on here. It's too far to travel for it not to fire due to numbers.
Also if it was broadcast on here or even The Source we might be able to get a head count for numbers to anticipate? Or even get a better turnout perhaps?
I currently live in Ames and also went to school in Cedar Falls.
Have you ever heard of The Core in Cedar Falls? They will have Legacy about every 3 months and I know that on Monday nights at Perkins in Waterloo people will playtest Legacy as well. Just show up and a group will be camped out.
I just played in a GPT at Cedar Rapids over the weekend (10/26), but the legacy is very inconsistent. I have gone to tournaments and only three people have showed up. Pretty disappointing. The GPT had 20 people this weekend though with people from Iowa City, Dubuque, Cedar Falls, and Cedar Rapids.
Minneapolis has a shop called 'Monster's Den' that has big legacy tournaments once a month with good prize support as well for another option. 11/2 is the next legacy tournament.
@PretendObject - Have you ever played at the Mayhem in Des Moines? I know that at least a couple of people have legacy decks and are interested, but events just don't seem to happen ever. I also saw that Jay's Hobby and Cd's had a tournament over the weekend.
Naming what will beat the hand you have. Say you have just the one mana dork that REALLY needs to stick for at one turn and you know your opponent packs bolts. Well you name bolt then.
Maybe your hand lacks removal or they have a creature you can't target. You name the creature that will punish you.
Maybe you have a decent mid-game hand, but lack early. You name the early game of your opponent.
Maybe you lack any counter protection for your combo. You name Force to protect yourself.
Maybe you don't have the counter for your opponents combo. You name the combo pieces.
You base your blind calls off the context of you hand and what information you have gleaned off your opponent from previous games.
Also sitting on a Therapy until you see a card to name isn't a bad idea either rather then doing the blind call. Delver flips, Dark Confidant revels, Stoneforge fetches, and Land Grant revels are all ways that your opponent tells you what is in their hand. Not to mention the tells of certain cards on the board that have already been mentioned.
And if you don't have a good way to flashback Therapy within a turn or two of playing it, you are doing it wrong.
Looks like a great starting point and honestly this deck will be more then able to hold it's own. A couple ideas for you to think about.
Have you considered Liliana of the Veil? She is another pretty expensive card, but if you can get your hands on some, jam her in. She could possibly replace your diabolic edicts in the main. Elspeth, Knight Errand and Sorin Lord of Innistrad are solid planeswalkers to consider as well.
No discard at all? Hymn to Tourach, Duress, and of course Thoughtseize would all be good choices. You might want to consider cutting one Lavamancer, one Vindicate, and one Sword Of X and Y for three discard (at least). If you can I would up this count to 5-6 cards of discard. Just another type of proactive removal.
I would suggest Lingering Souls. That card is just really awesome. Souls hold equipment, chump block, fly, kill planeswalkers, edict proof, the card is resilient to discard, and four for one card advantage. Works well with Cabal Therapy as well (discard!). It's super good and if you can find a way to include I would.
I know this is a lot of cards to throw at you, but Sensei's Divining Top is great with Dark Confidant and helps when you get to top deck mode.
Lastly since you play red you should find space in the sideboard for Red Elemental Blasts or Pyroblasts. Those two cards are the best red sideboard cards you can play. Usually 2-3 in the sideboard works. Oh, and Rest in Peace would be a good sideboard as well. Doesn't work great with Lavamancer, but just hoses so many strategies.
This is pretty close to a Dark Maverick list rather then a regular old Rock list (which is part of the reason you didn't get much advice I suspect)
The Rock/Junk typically plays LOTS of answers and you don't really have many. No Abrupt Decay in the 60 seems off to me let alone the 75. Every GWB lists I have seen has at least two usually.
You have an extra Forest listed. Is that just extra? If not I would drop it. I would also drop the Tower for a third Wasteland. Wasteland can just give you free wins at times with greedy keeps from an opponent. Horizon could maybe be a Wasteland instead as well to get up to four, but Horizon does have its merits. Fetching out Wasteland with Knight just slams the door shut.
Although debated and can go either way. I don't like running Stoneforge in a deck with GSZ. Especially without Fauna Shaman. I might consider cutting the Batterskull for a second Jitte and cutting one Stoneforge.
4 Inquisition should probably have a 2/2 split with Thoughtseize as well, but I would wait until Theros if you don't have any
Why only 3 Bobs? From the standpoint of The Rock you want as much card advantage as possible since we play a pretty aggro oriented style.
Your sideboard seems solid to me.
I'm working on a Rock deck which is built to fight aggro/tempo decks. Tribal decks mostly. 'folks, goblins, birds, and so on. Which cards do you all think fit perfectly?
Tribal though you say? Well first and for most Abrupt Decay is awesome since tempo decks can't stop it usually barring any special tech like bounce or pro color. Swords to Plowshares is ubiquitous for a reason. Tarmogoyf and Knight usually can trump some of the big guys they have and stone wall them. Engineered Plague is the first answer that comes to mind off the top of my head from the sideboard. I keep a Maelstrom Pulse in my sideboard which would come in against tribal. Also Pernicious Deed can help in a pinch when you are behind on the board. Like a lot. Deed destroys most fair decks actually. I enjoy setting it at two and leaving myself with a BIG old Knight of the Reliquary.
It's an absolutely fine choice for a newcomer with the cards to make it happen. The cash cards, except for Mutavault, are all format staples, while the countermagic gives fine game against the degenerate stuff. Mutavault won't be a problem for you, as it's probably a card you've already got for Modern 'folk.
I'm thinking of making Merfolk my Modern deck for precisely this reason. It looks very easily portable once one has the Vaults.
I've actually done this with great success. I was able to easily port my Legacy Merfolk into Modern Merfolk by adding some Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, and added a few dudes.
It's not Tier 1 in Modern, but works.
For a new player this is a pretty good deck to get started in. It has a easily understood strategy (play all the creatures!), does powerful things (I can't hear you over the sound of my 4 5/5's with Islandwalk), and has game against much of the field (Is that an Island I see?)
A few things that caught my eye
1. Mainboard you dont have many green sun zenith targets, there is no mainboard toolbox. Seems kinda lackluster game one.
I suppose a big part of running GSZ was to help with general consistency of pulling out threats. In terms of a tool box I'm thinking I might want to drop a Thalia out of the sideboard and bring in a Pridemage. But like you said Game 1 it would be pretty lackluster.
2. 2 Tarmogoyf seems odd. He has really been a 4 or none type of creature for me. and with GSZ you can cut the 2 goyfs and 1 ooze in place of 3 more silver bullets and take a more rock/maverick direction. Which might be where we want to be but not 100% sure on that.
I'm not 100% on that either. I would rather just jam with Stoneforge Mystic again then run the silver bullet plan. Although the idea of Dark Maverick doesn't sound THAT bad.
Also ideally I would have a third Goyf and run a 3/1 split with Ooze, but alas I only have the 2 Goyfs.
3. Is there a reason why only 3 wasteland? Really want to be having 4 especially with KotR and why no horizon canopy? or a 4th KotR
Adding in the Dryad Arbor pushed a Wasteland out for me. I didn't want to cut any basics, fetches, duals, Karakas, or Maze. So a Waste got the axe.
Again just lands space tighten up too much to include Canopy. I have also been pretty underwhelmed by Canopy when I played with it. It hurts too much when I have it in a starting grip. Compared to you list I pretty much have Maze over Canopy.
No fourth Knight is a product of having the 3 Green Sun's Zenith.
3 GSZ and 4-5 silver bullets. Only thing about taking out stone forge is that the card can win games on its on sometimes and thats a pretty powerful effect idk if we really want to give up.
Yes, it is pretty powerful. I really have been a bit apprehensive about cutting her. I would say I have a cycle of every two weeks I decide I like her more than GSZ and will swap them out.
Alright thanks for your comments and suggestions. I'm thinking that I will cut one Ooze in favor of one more Knight. I will stick it out with the GSZ plan for now and see how it goes. Also, I'm a greedy man. I will drop the Plains for the 4th Wasteland.
Who knows though I might just cut
-3 GSZ -1 Liliana -1 Ooze
and add
+2 SFM +1 Batterskull +1 Jitte +1 Knight
I have dropped the Stoneforge Mystic package entirely in favor of using Green Sun's Zenith. This was because I really want the deck to press the pedal to the metal as well as give me a way to tutor out Gaddock Teeg when I bring him from the board.
Speaking of GSZ would I be able to get away with having 2 rather then 3?
In addition to dropping SFM I have also dropped Lingering Souls. I still really want to find a way to get them into the list because of the strength that they have vs so many opposing strategies (counter, discard, Planeswalkers, sacrifice effects.) So, I've been thinking of dropping one Liliana and a Ooze for two Lingering Souls. Which would also let me bring back in Cabal Therapy (-2 IoK and +2 Therapy.) A card I rather enjoy.
Would those be good swaps in peoples mind? Is 3 Liliana too much anyways?
1. It has a steep learning curve, not so much that it takes a long time to learn to play it as to learn to play it successfully within the time constraints of a sanctioned event. Miracles tends to wind up in the draw bracket due to not finishing game 3.
I've noticed that when watching people play that it just takes time due to multiple Top activation in response to everything and then add in shuffle effects to supplement. It makes for long games.
2. It's fiendishly expensive. Maybe this isn't a problem for you: if so, congrats! It's what is stopping me from playing the deck.
Yeah, I won't be able to drop the $2,500 dollars in a one fell swoop. It will more then likely take me 6-8 months to complete with the monthly Legacy budget that I have. I suppose that is why I wonder if it will be worth in the long haul to assemble this deck.
I have been playing for a little over a year now and started with making Fish and Deadguy Ale. Deadguy has grown into The Rock. I attempted to try putting together RUG, but I'm burning myself out on Wasteland.dec. Now I still want to construct a Teir 1 deck and I would like for the new deck to fall into the control archetype.
I'm leaning towards Miracles as I do have the Forces, x2 Flooded Strand, Snapcasters, Clique, x2 Divining Top, and could play the Stoneforge variant.
Does anybody have advice on if Miracles would be a worthwhile deck to construct? Or might I be better cashing in some cards for different control strategy?
Looks pretty good. I wouldn't say you're missing anything really. If anything you might have TOO much going on. Some of the numbers seem low and to make up for them you would need to cut into other strategies the deck has going on.
Two Hymn might not be enough and you might be better served with 2 Cabal Therapy or 2 Thoughtseize. The amount of discard is kind of low too. Would you have more in the sideboard you think? Discard is a major way that I fight combo personally.
You might also consider more filtering effects. Just the lone Sylvan Library won't be enough and with so many different things going on in the deck along with Bob you will want ways to manipulate top deck.
The design you have is much more proactive with the inclusion of Tarmogoyfs, but I feel that the Stoneforges are counter to that strategy. I previously played with SFM and it often felt slow and cumbersome. Have you tried Green Sun Zenith at all? Having 6 to 7 chances of getting a turn 2 Goyf consistently is pretty awesome.
I would consider cutting SFM if you want to fill out the discard suite and add filtering. Otherwise I could maybe only cut Elspeth for a filter effect (Divining Top/Sylvan Library) and cutting 1 Goyf, 1 SFM for two more discard.
The lines between Junk, The Rock, and Deadguy are really starting to blur in the past 6 months.
All play Bob. All play Swords. All play Thoughtseize. All play Wasteland. All play Lingering Souls. All play Deathrite. All play Abrupt Decay.
Most the variations and differences boil down to three different packages of about 5-10 cards.
1. Stoneforge package
2. Green Sun Zenith package
3. Knight of the Reliquary package
Deadguy Ale always includes SFM, Nic Fit always has GSZ, and The Rock a blend of two out of the three.
From the sounds of it you might enjoy playing The Rock Green Sun version. With this you play Goyf and Knights with a couple utility creatures either main board or side board. The most ramp you will get might be a GSZ for zero finding Dryad Arbor or T1 DRS. Not quite as over the top as Nic Fit is, but it can be fun to ramp into Turn 2 Liliana or Knights
Bonus with The Rock is it is possible to put the Depths combo in if you feel so inclined
Yeah no problem! Sorry to steal your thunder. I missed that you mentioned this tournament in your previous posting. I am pretty pumped about the amount of legacy suddenly picking up in Iowa though and excited to get to this tournament.
Thanks for the heads up!
I found this after googling the shop name... http://magic.tcgplayer.com/maxpoint/events.asp?ID=474&storeid=136 which I might be tempted to try and attend. Although Moline would be a bit of trek for me. I bet duelers that live in Eastern Iowa could ramble on over across the Mississippi once a month.
Went to Jay's over the weekend for the 10 proxy legacy event and we had 18 peeps show up! Not a bad turnout I thought.
For archtypes we had...
Punishing Maverick, Esper True Blade, TES, Slivers, Stifle-Nought, Pox, Sneak and Show, Nic-Fit, Dark Maverick, and some other rogue decks floating around.
Also, for folks up in Cedar Falls. The Core is having a legacy tournament with duals for prizes on January 12th.
https://www.facebook.com/corefnm
I also have heard that on January 4th Critical Hit Games is going to have the monthly legacy tournament. It's not on the calendar, but hopefully it will be added soon for confirmation
Also in Des Moines Jay's Hobby is having a legacy tournament on Saturday Dec. 7th and Mayhem Comics is having a legacy tournament on Dec. 29th. Both of these tournaments allow for 10 proxy cards.
JAYS LEGACY TOURNAMENT:
Dec 7th, 12 (noon)
7$ entry free, two packs a player and store credit to top finishers based on players entered.
MAYHEM LEGACY TOURNAMENT:
Dec 29th, 12 (noon)
Ten card proxy!
Entry Fee: $10
Prizes: First Place gets 4 sealed Onslaught Starter Decks, Second gets 2 sealed Onslaught Starter Decks, and 3/4 get one Sealed Onslaught Starter deck. If we get more than sixteen players we will also give out 150% the cash entries and 100% of the store credit entries back in store credit prizes.
For me personally. Weekends work best to play in Iowa City at Critical Hit. I couldn't do weekly (two hours one way from Ames), but I would be game for a monthly at the least! As long as they correctly list it on their website or if it was advertised on here. It's too far to travel for it not to fire due to numbers.
Also if it was broadcast on here or even The Source we might be able to get a head count for numbers to anticipate? Or even get a better turnout perhaps?
Have you ever heard of The Core in Cedar Falls? They will have Legacy about every 3 months and I know that on Monday nights at Perkins in Waterloo people will playtest Legacy as well. Just show up and a group will be camped out.
http://www.thecoreonline.com/Magic.htm
I just played in a GPT at Cedar Rapids over the weekend (10/26), but the legacy is very inconsistent. I have gone to tournaments and only three people have showed up. Pretty disappointing. The GPT had 20 people this weekend though with people from Iowa City, Dubuque, Cedar Falls, and Cedar Rapids.
Minneapolis has a shop called 'Monster's Den' that has big legacy tournaments once a month with good prize support as well for another option. 11/2 is the next legacy tournament.
http://www.dreamersgames.com/NewDVG/Events.aspx
@PretendObject - Have you ever played at the Mayhem in Des Moines? I know that at least a couple of people have legacy decks and are interested, but events just don't seem to happen ever. I also saw that Jay's Hobby and Cd's had a tournament over the weekend.
http://www.mayhemcomics.com/en/mayhem_des_moines/
http://www.jayscdandhobby.com/
Maybe your hand lacks removal or they have a creature you can't target. You name the creature that will punish you.
Maybe you have a decent mid-game hand, but lack early. You name the early game of your opponent.
Maybe you lack any counter protection for your combo. You name Force to protect yourself.
Maybe you don't have the counter for your opponents combo. You name the combo pieces.
You base your blind calls off the context of you hand and what information you have gleaned off your opponent from previous games.
Also sitting on a Therapy until you see a card to name isn't a bad idea either rather then doing the blind call. Delver flips, Dark Confidant revels, Stoneforge fetches, and Land Grant revels are all ways that your opponent tells you what is in their hand. Not to mention the tells of certain cards on the board that have already been mentioned.
And if you don't have a good way to flashback Therapy within a turn or two of playing it, you are doing it wrong.
Looks like a great starting point and honestly this deck will be more then able to hold it's own. A couple ideas for you to think about.
Have you considered Liliana of the Veil? She is another pretty expensive card, but if you can get your hands on some, jam her in. She could possibly replace your diabolic edicts in the main. Elspeth, Knight Errand and Sorin Lord of Innistrad are solid planeswalkers to consider as well.
No discard at all? Hymn to Tourach, Duress, and of course Thoughtseize would all be good choices. You might want to consider cutting one Lavamancer, one Vindicate, and one Sword Of X and Y for three discard (at least). If you can I would up this count to 5-6 cards of discard. Just another type of proactive removal.
I would suggest Lingering Souls. That card is just really awesome. Souls hold equipment, chump block, fly, kill planeswalkers, edict proof, the card is resilient to discard, and four for one card advantage. Works well with Cabal Therapy as well (discard!). It's super good and if you can find a way to include I would.
I know this is a lot of cards to throw at you, but Sensei's Divining Top is great with Dark Confidant and helps when you get to top deck mode.
Lastly since you play red you should find space in the sideboard for Red Elemental Blasts or Pyroblasts. Those two cards are the best red sideboard cards you can play. Usually 2-3 in the sideboard works. Oh, and Rest in Peace would be a good sideboard as well. Doesn't work great with Lavamancer, but just hoses so many strategies.
Hope that helps!
This is pretty close to a Dark Maverick list rather then a regular old Rock list (which is part of the reason you didn't get much advice I suspect)
The Rock/Junk typically plays LOTS of answers and you don't really have many. No Abrupt Decay in the 60 seems off to me let alone the 75. Every GWB lists I have seen has at least two usually.
You have an extra Forest listed. Is that just extra? If not I would drop it. I would also drop the Tower for a third Wasteland. Wasteland can just give you free wins at times with greedy keeps from an opponent. Horizon could maybe be a Wasteland instead as well to get up to four, but Horizon does have its merits. Fetching out Wasteland with Knight just slams the door shut.
Although debated and can go either way. I don't like running Stoneforge in a deck with GSZ. Especially without Fauna Shaman. I might consider cutting the Batterskull for a second Jitte and cutting one Stoneforge.
4 Inquisition should probably have a 2/2 split with Thoughtseize as well, but I would wait until Theros if you don't have any
Why only 3 Bobs? From the standpoint of The Rock you want as much card advantage as possible since we play a pretty aggro oriented style.
Your sideboard seems solid to me.
Tribal though you say? Well first and for most Abrupt Decay is awesome since tempo decks can't stop it usually barring any special tech like bounce or pro color. Swords to Plowshares is ubiquitous for a reason. Tarmogoyf and Knight usually can trump some of the big guys they have and stone wall them. Engineered Plague is the first answer that comes to mind off the top of my head from the sideboard. I keep a Maelstrom Pulse in my sideboard which would come in against tribal. Also Pernicious Deed can help in a pinch when you are behind on the board. Like a lot. Deed destroys most fair decks actually. I enjoy setting it at two and leaving myself with a BIG old Knight of the Reliquary.
Hope that helps.
I've actually done this with great success. I was able to easily port my Legacy Merfolk into Modern Merfolk by adding some Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, and added a few dudes.
It's not Tier 1 in Modern, but works.
For a new player this is a pretty good deck to get started in. It has a easily understood strategy (play all the creatures!), does powerful things (I can't hear you over the sound of my 4 5/5's with Islandwalk), and has game against much of the field (Is that an Island I see?)
I suppose a big part of running GSZ was to help with general consistency of pulling out threats. In terms of a tool box I'm thinking I might want to drop a Thalia out of the sideboard and bring in a Pridemage. But like you said Game 1 it would be pretty lackluster.
I'm not 100% on that either. I would rather just jam with Stoneforge Mystic again then run the silver bullet plan. Although the idea of Dark Maverick doesn't sound THAT bad.
Also ideally I would have a third Goyf and run a 3/1 split with Ooze, but alas I only have the 2 Goyfs.
Adding in the Dryad Arbor pushed a Wasteland out for me. I didn't want to cut any basics, fetches, duals, Karakas, or Maze. So a Waste got the axe.
Again just lands space tighten up too much to include Canopy. I have also been pretty underwhelmed by Canopy when I played with it. It hurts too much when I have it in a starting grip. Compared to you list I pretty much have Maze over Canopy.
No fourth Knight is a product of having the 3 Green Sun's Zenith.
Yes, it is pretty powerful. I really have been a bit apprehensive about cutting her. I would say I have a cycle of every two weeks I decide I like her more than GSZ and will swap them out.
Alright thanks for your comments and suggestions. I'm thinking that I will cut one Ooze in favor of one more Knight. I will stick it out with the GSZ plan for now and see how it goes. Also, I'm a greedy man. I will drop the Plains for the 4th Wasteland.
Who knows though I might just cut
-3 GSZ -1 Liliana -1 Ooze
and add
+2 SFM +1 Batterskull +1 Jitte +1 Knight
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Wasteland
Creatures x15 (16 with Dryad Arbor!)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Green Sun Zenith
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sensi's Divining Top
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tower of the Magistrate
3 Extirpate
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Golgari Charm
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Maelstrom Pulse
I have dropped the Stoneforge Mystic package entirely in favor of using Green Sun's Zenith. This was because I really want the deck to press the pedal to the metal as well as give me a way to tutor out Gaddock Teeg when I bring him from the board.
Speaking of GSZ would I be able to get away with having 2 rather then 3?
In addition to dropping SFM I have also dropped Lingering Souls. I still really want to find a way to get them into the list because of the strength that they have vs so many opposing strategies (counter, discard, Planeswalkers, sacrifice effects.) So, I've been thinking of dropping one Liliana and a Ooze for two Lingering Souls. Which would also let me bring back in Cabal Therapy (-2 IoK and +2 Therapy.) A card I rather enjoy.
Would those be good swaps in peoples mind? Is 3 Liliana too much anyways?
Thanks for any feedback, thoughts, or comments.
I've noticed that when watching people play that it just takes time due to multiple Top activation in response to everything and then add in shuffle effects to supplement. It makes for long games.
Yeah, I won't be able to drop the $2,500 dollars in a one fell swoop. It will more then likely take me 6-8 months to complete with the monthly Legacy budget that I have. I suppose that is why I wonder if it will be worth in the long haul to assemble this deck.
Thanks for the help!
I have been playing for a little over a year now and started with making Fish and Deadguy Ale. Deadguy has grown into The Rock. I attempted to try putting together RUG, but I'm burning myself out on Wasteland.dec. Now I still want to construct a Teir 1 deck and I would like for the new deck to fall into the control archetype.
I'm leaning towards Miracles as I do have the Forces, x2 Flooded Strand, Snapcasters, Clique, x2 Divining Top, and could play the Stoneforge variant.
Does anybody have advice on if Miracles would be a worthwhile deck to construct? Or might I be better cashing in some cards for different control strategy?
Looks pretty good. I wouldn't say you're missing anything really. If anything you might have TOO much going on. Some of the numbers seem low and to make up for them you would need to cut into other strategies the deck has going on.
Two Hymn might not be enough and you might be better served with 2 Cabal Therapy or 2 Thoughtseize. The amount of discard is kind of low too. Would you have more in the sideboard you think? Discard is a major way that I fight combo personally.
You might also consider more filtering effects. Just the lone Sylvan Library won't be enough and with so many different things going on in the deck along with Bob you will want ways to manipulate top deck.
The design you have is much more proactive with the inclusion of Tarmogoyfs, but I feel that the Stoneforges are counter to that strategy. I previously played with SFM and it often felt slow and cumbersome. Have you tried Green Sun Zenith at all? Having 6 to 7 chances of getting a turn 2 Goyf consistently is pretty awesome.
I would consider cutting SFM if you want to fill out the discard suite and add filtering. Otherwise I could maybe only cut Elspeth for a filter effect (Divining Top/Sylvan Library) and cutting 1 Goyf, 1 SFM for two more discard.
All play Bob. All play Swords. All play Thoughtseize. All play Wasteland. All play Lingering Souls. All play Deathrite. All play Abrupt Decay.
Most the variations and differences boil down to three different packages of about 5-10 cards.
1. Stoneforge package
2. Green Sun Zenith package
3. Knight of the Reliquary package
Deadguy Ale always includes SFM, Nic Fit always has GSZ, and The Rock a blend of two out of the three.
From the sounds of it you might enjoy playing The Rock Green Sun version. With this you play Goyf and Knights with a couple utility creatures either main board or side board. The most ramp you will get might be a GSZ for zero finding Dryad Arbor or T1 DRS. Not quite as over the top as Nic Fit is, but it can be fun to ramp into Turn 2 Liliana or Knights
Bonus with The Rock is it is possible to put the Depths combo in if you feel so inclined
Hope that helps!