Hatebears
Sun and moon
Merfolk
Mardu midrange
Esper control
Suicide bloo
Tron
Jund
Lantern control
Grixis delver
Dredge
Eldrazi
Burn (very infrequent)
1-2 random tier 3 combo
Moon walkers
I like playing midrange/control the most. I have BUG delver built right now, but I'm considering both jund and Grixis delver/control. What are people'a thoughts for the meta? Obviously Tron just ROFL-stomps most of it, but I've never loved Tron. Any thoughts on the best deck for my playstyle? I've got the card stock to sell/trade into most decks.
Thank you!!
Thanks for the replies!! I went with Junk. It's cheaper than jund from the cards I have and for a few dollars I complete it en route to jund if I decide that's where I want to go. I figured since most of the consistent decks at my shop are the midrange/control ones, a midrange deck that can out-midrange other midrange seemed good. Plus, I don't think I've cast lingering souls once at the shop that I didn't win soon after. A friend suggested a flayer/rhino/painful truths version, which seems sweet.
Hatebears
Sun and moon
Merfolk
Mardu midrange
Esper control
Suicide bloo
Tron
Jund
Lantern control
Grixis delver
Dredge
Eldrazi
Burn (very infrequent)
1-2 random tier 3 combo
Moon walkers
I like playing midrange/control the most. I have BUG delver built right now, but I'm considering both jund and Grixis delver/control. What are people'a thoughts for the meta? Obviously Tron just ROFL-stomps most of it, but I've never loved Tron. Any thoughts on the best deck for my playstyle? I've got the card stock to sell/trade into most decks.
Just wanted to say that I love this deck. I picked it up this past week and played it to 2-1 last night, beating bant Eldrazi and possibility storm combo, losing to dredge. I think I clearly should have been a tempo player all my life.
I played the list with the traverse board, an extra vapor snag over Snapcaster, and a budget fetch base while I pick up the ones I don't have yet. I have to say, I didn't really notice any problems with the mana base.
I did have an interesting discussion with someone last night- can you play tempo without red? I was talking about how much better path is than bolt in my meta, and I always found myself closing games with creatures over burn. Is a Bant delver deck viable? Or is it just better to play 4-color counter cat at that point?
I've been trying out the Madcap Experiment/Emperion combo and feel very ambivalent to it. I've been running 3 Emperions and 4 Experiments and, because those cards go into our win-con slots, they compromise our ability to actually win the game. On several occasions I've found myself in a position where I couldn't attack my opponent. For example:
Grixis with Tasigur on board, Bolt in the yard and three mana up including U and R. If he has a Snap I lose the Emperion to blockers and Bolt. And because I had so few threats in my deck he was able to manage them with his Terminates/Snaps/etc.
or
Evo with a massive army on the board (too much to attack and trample over with Kessig Wolf-Run). Just sat there waiting for him to find a P2E or Pridemage because attacking would have cost me the Emperion in combat. I tried attacking with massive X/1 Arbor Elves, but this didn't quite get there in time.
or
RDW with any three goblins and ANY cards in hand. You'd think this would be a bye, but unless you get an Anger or Titan pretty quickly, they just build up their cheap board, save three burn spells then kill the Emperion and attack for lots and lots.
In each of these cases I found myself desperately looking for a way to win because the Emperion wasn't actually a threat. I was hiding behind it like a more fragile version of Worship. When you Madcap into Emperion you may only use one card in hand and thus come out even on card advantage but when you take threats out of your deck you ultimately hurt yourself. Thus, I think I prefer to have more individual threats in my deck.
I just played a madcap version that was basically your maindeck you eluted to a few days back, subbing 2 Chandra flamecaller for the 2 inferno titan. It can still clean up against aggro, can't bolt someone and just get pathed, and is very versatile. It was sweet. I was only playing 2 emperion though.
I'm wondering if by introducing 4 madcap at 4 cmc if we can consider those slots as disruption instead of a threat. Think of it like blood moon instead of 4 more stone rains. If we do that, dropping the remaining 3 acid moss would free up slots for more threats. I almost never wanted to play them- by the time I got to 4 cmc, I had already disrupted (moon, stone rain, madcap-> emperion). At that point, I wanted a haymaker instead. Adding madcap lowers the curve (2 titan and 2 5 mana threats became madcaps) too, making the ramp less important. I like replacing them with card draw- more specifically more walkers at the 4-5 CMC slot and the 4th stormbreath dragon.
Thoughts? It would simultaneously increase the threat density, which is definitely something the deck needs, I think.
Edit: I added my decklist. I've since dropped 2 mwonvuli acid-moss for the 4th stormbreath and 1 nissa, worldwaker, although I think I'll be replacing it with nissa, vital force (and possibly the 4th stormbreath too).
Raystack- I decided a couple of days ago to drop serum visions for relic too. It ups the artifact count and gives me more flexibility in the non-artifact cards. Different pros and cons, but I'm currently testing ESPER Eldrazi Tez:
Once I switched to Eldrazi, I realized how much I missed Lingering Souls from the Processor builds. Once I switched SV to Relic, it was easy to add back wasteland strangler with Path/Relic/TKS to activate it. The card is just so much value.
The mana base is fine- 10C 14B 11U 12W. Not great, but it seems to be working alright.
The current flex slots in my mind are the Battterskull/Reality Smasher/SpellSkite. 16 artifacts could be higher; I'd like at least 17, so the reality smasher may become another EE. I need to test more- this is all still very much theoretical.
Anyways, will report back after I've had some time to playtest, hopefully this week.
Cheers.
Edit: changed the flex slots. I think I prefer EE to skite and smasher over batterskull.
Folks will recall Akalah's unique hybrid deck of Elrazi and Tezzeret which he called Tezzdrazi. Why not? The tentacled ones were ruling the world until Eye of Ugin got banned. The whole (8) City of Traitors Deck was no more. But, remnants are still powerful. I stripped away the weakest and the hardest to cast eldrazi and landed on two beasts: TKS and Smasher. Akalah was running Matter Reshaper as well, but I found it underwhelming in board impact - plus he couldn't run Flaying Tendrils which is cray cray powerful.
By leaving Chalice of the Void behind, I'm availing myself of the wondrous world of 1-drops. Giddy as a school boy. There are 9 main deck one drops, and with Talismans, I can do a 1-drop on turn 2 while ramping. Yes, yes, I know this is obvious, but I have been stuck inside a Cup for a very long time. The discard as associated with the creatures (Clique and TKS) is divine pressure. And, it takes a lot to take down a TKS. I feel like Racing089 helped with the mana design, so I imported his thoughts. The sideboard is in flux, as I'm not exactly sure where my weaknesses lie - most likely aggro/burn/infect.
I've dropped the Thopter/Foundry count to 5 total cards. This is concerning on 2 levels. 1: I may not find them as a pair. 2: My total artifact count is diminished. Akalah had 15, and that is too low for a reliable Tezzeret +1. After a lot finagling, I fell on the just one more at 16, but it's just a (2) Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas deck. I've had enough games where I draw only a single piece of the combo and cry a little inside. I've got it down as a real afterthought of a combo at this point due to A: increased form of pressured win-conditions and B: the belief that it is a little fragile and a little slow in the absence of running multiple maindeck ensnaring bridge.
Fortuitous Upside: I'm not as vulnerable to Stony Silence.
So, it's Eldrazi and Thopter/Sword and Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and Discard....along with 8 forms of mana acceleration [temples and rocks]. Is it all just a little too much? How do all these kids fit on the dance floor? Is there magic in this gathering???
Have you tested this list at all? It looks sweet. I wanted a more aggressive approach, which made me jump to Eldrazi additions first off, but I'm at odds with having to drop ensnaring bridge. How does this fare in the current meta? It seems very powerful at first glance.
Folks will recall Akalah's unique hybrid deck of Elrazi and Tezzeret which he called Tezzdrazi. Why not? The tentacled ones were ruling the world until Eye of Ugin got banned. The whole (8) City of Traitors Deck was no more. But, remnants are still powerful. I stripped away the weakest and the hardest to cast eldrazi and landed on two beasts: TKS and Smasher. Akalah was running Matter Reshaper as well, but I found it underwhelming in board impact - plus he couldn't run Flaying Tendrils which is cray cray powerful.
By leaving Chalice of the Void behind, I'm availing myself of the wondrous world of 1-drops. Giddy as a school boy. There are 9 main deck one drops, and with Talismans, I can do a 1-drop on turn 2 while ramping. Yes, yes, I know this is obvious, but I have been stuck inside a Cup for a very long time. The discard as associated with the creatures (Clique and TKS) is divine pressure. And, it takes a lot to take down a TKS. I feel like Racing089 helped with the mana design, so I imported his thoughts. The sideboard is in flux, as I'm not exactly sure where my weaknesses lie - most likely aggro/burn/infect.
I've dropped the Thopter/Foundry count to 5 total cards. This is concerning on 2 levels. 1: I may not find them as a pair. 2: My total artifact count is diminished. Akalah had 15, and that is too low for a reliable Tezzeret +1. After a lot finagling, I fell on the just one more at 16, but it's just a (2) Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas deck. I've had enough games where I draw only a single piece of the combo and cry a little inside. I've got it down as a real afterthought of a combo at this point due to A: increased form of pressured win-conditions and B: the belief that it is a little fragile and a little slow in the absence of running multiple maindeck ensnaring bridge.
Fortuitous Upside: I'm not as vulnerable to Stony Silence.
So, it's Eldrazi and Thopter/Sword and Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and Discard....along with 8 forms of mana acceleration [temples and rocks]. Is it all just a little too much? How do all these kids fit on the dance floor? Is there magic in this gathering???
Have you tested this list at all? It looks sweet. I wanted a more aggressive approach, which made me jump to Eldrazi additions first off, but I'm at odds with having to drop ensnaring bridge. How does this fare in the current meta? It seems very powerful at first glance.
If you diversify your threat base or just have an overwhelming artifact count, the only artifact hate that is devastating is shatterstorm effects, but that's no different than wrath effects vs. aggro either and much less common. I prefer a red splash, but it basically completely changes the deck. My deck is strongest vs wennie aggro decks (infect, affinity, boggles) and weaker vs midrange, which is contrary to what the U/B versions are.
I've come to many of the same conclusions as you have about splashing, as long as you avoid double same-color mana cost requirements, and mana rocks. I've been working with this at the moment, although I think I want to remove Leylines from the board:
I've been messing around with a Grixis version of Tezzeret for a while and thought I'd share. I've only been playing at FNM, but depending on the build can go really well (3-1) or terribly (0-X). This version is most similar to the more successful lists.
The sideboard varies a lot. I've been thinking about trying out Etched Champion in place of Tasigur. It clogs the 3-drop slot more, but it (in theory) serves the same purpose acting as a wall early game and a win-con late game.
Why I play this instead of U/B Tezz: honestly, I just really like blood moon and really like the idea of jamming moon/chalice/bridge in the same deck. However, pyroclasm does help vs. aggro and gives you better generic removal in the form of terminate. Occasionally, you get the turn 2 concession off of SSG -> moon. It also makes EE better (EE for 3 in rare occasions that it doesn't destroy your board).
I've also never liked mana rocks in Tezzeret. Sure, they accelerate into turn 3 damnation, which is why I really like the 3-4 damnation builds. However, a turn 3 tezzeret without a zero drop artifact just gets Hulk-smashed by most decks. I've also found too many hands where if I went turn 2 rock -> go, I just got murdered by affinity turn 3. I'd rather play more early game interaction turn 2 and drop a lockpiece turn 3/4.
I think after being screwed by wizards I am done with doing any financial investing with this game.
One of the only reasons you could have posted this is that you were still on eldrazi and didn't see the eye ban coming. If that's true, I agree that you shouldn't be doing any financial investing in mtg. How has anything in the last 3 months pointed to anything other than a ban for the deck?
My formatting for this deck is probably going to be terrible (I've never posted a list on here before), but I've been working on what started out as a free win red/tezzeret mashup that gradually took out a lot of the artifact interaction and replaced it with blue moon-style early game control and card selection. I haven't gotten a chance to play too much, but went 3-1 at the last FNM (2-1 affinity, 1-2 affinity, 2-1 boggles, 2-1 kiki chord).
It isn't too close to what you guys have going, but it fits here probably better than most threads. This is where it stands at the moment.
If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be thrilled to hear them! I know it's not the mono-red version discussed here, but I didn't like the dead ritual topdecks. So I replaced the rituals with early interaction, but then the deck also had no/little library manipulation or card draw, which makes it have clunky draws. Then I went heavier on blue and burn/draw spells. The mana base isn't perfect, but it's got 10 sources of basic islands/swamps, which is pretty good for getting them up before a blood moon. The mana is surprisingly smooth for a Grixis moon deck.
Cheers!
Edit: to comment on what the first thing that comes to mind when I think about this: the artifact count is indeed low for tezzeret, but tezzeret is still the main way I've been killing so far. Tezzeret +1 basically fetches for either spellskite, chalice, or bridge. At a rate of ~10% of the deck per turn, you do miss a reasonable amount but you almost don't care. Tezz hitting means more hate artifacts and people aren't comfortable with him sitting on the table. I would absolutely rather tezzeret to clear out the top 5 cards of non-hate (excluding blood moon) than chandra a random card off the top. However, chandra is still very good and 2 extra cards a turn off the pair of them is amazing. If only blood moon were an artifact....
Currently on the fence between Affinity and Eldrazi and my main fear in completing either deck is potential bans. I've heard quite a few people argue that either Eye of Ugin might be next to get the boot or Ravager/Cranial Platting since Affinity is tier 1. I guess I'm just wondering how likely either might get hit, I don't want to invest a lot of time and money in it for nothing.
More bans won't come for another year- there has been the pattern of not banning or unbanning in modern until right before the Pro tour. As that's just happened, invest in either deck and decide in about 11 months whether you should sell or not.
Thanks for the replies!! I went with Junk. It's cheaper than jund from the cards I have and for a few dollars I complete it en route to jund if I decide that's where I want to go. I figured since most of the consistent decks at my shop are the midrange/control ones, a midrange deck that can out-midrange other midrange seemed good. Plus, I don't think I've cast lingering souls once at the shop that I didn't win soon after. A friend suggested a flayer/rhino/painful truths version, which seems sweet.
Cheers!
Hatebears
Sun and moon
Merfolk
Mardu midrange
Esper control
Suicide bloo
Tron
Jund
Lantern control
Grixis delver
Dredge
Eldrazi
Burn (very infrequent)
1-2 random tier 3 combo
Moon walkers
I like playing midrange/control the most. I have BUG delver built right now, but I'm considering both jund and Grixis delver/control. What are people'a thoughts for the meta? Obviously Tron just ROFL-stomps most of it, but I've never loved Tron. Any thoughts on the best deck for my playstyle? I've got the card stock to sell/trade into most decks.
Thank you!!
I played the list with the traverse board, an extra vapor snag over Snapcaster, and a budget fetch base while I pick up the ones I don't have yet. I have to say, I didn't really notice any problems with the mana base.
I did have an interesting discussion with someone last night- can you play tempo without red? I was talking about how much better path is than bolt in my meta, and I always found myself closing games with creatures over burn. Is a Bant delver deck viable? Or is it just better to play 4-color counter cat at that point?
I just played a madcap version that was basically your maindeck you eluted to a few days back, subbing 2 Chandra flamecaller for the 2 inferno titan. It can still clean up against aggro, can't bolt someone and just get pathed, and is very versatile. It was sweet. I was only playing 2 emperion though.
I'm wondering if by introducing 4 madcap at 4 cmc if we can consider those slots as disruption instead of a threat. Think of it like blood moon instead of 4 more stone rains. If we do that, dropping the remaining 3 acid moss would free up slots for more threats. I almost never wanted to play them- by the time I got to 4 cmc, I had already disrupted (moon, stone rain, madcap-> emperion). At that point, I wanted a haymaker instead. Adding madcap lowers the curve (2 titan and 2 5 mana threats became madcaps) too, making the ramp less important. I like replacing them with card draw- more specifically more walkers at the 4-5 CMC slot and the 4th stormbreath dragon.
Thoughts? It would simultaneously increase the threat density, which is definitely something the deck needs, I think.
Edit: I added my decklist. I've since dropped 2 mwonvuli acid-moss for the 4th stormbreath and 1 nissa, worldwaker, although I think I'll be replacing it with nissa, vital force (and possibly the 4th stormbreath too).
4 wooded foothills
4 windswept heath
3 stomping ground
1 mountain
4 utopia sprawl
4 arbor elf
2 birds of paradise
4 blood moon
4 stone rain
3 beast within
3 anger of the gods
3 mwonvuli acid-moss
3 stormbreath dragon
2 garruk, primal hunter
2 Chandra, flamecaller
2 platinum emperion
3 kitchen finks
3 sudden shock
3 grafdigger's cage
2 engineered explosives
2 thrun, the last troll
1 anger of the gods
1 firespout
The list that I am building toward is this one:
4 Reality Smasher
3 Matter Reshaper
3 Wall of Omens
2 Wasteland Strangler
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
3 Smother
1 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
4 Lingering Souls
2 Flooded Strand
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Underground River
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
2 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Lingering Souls
2 Sword of the Meek
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Path to Exile
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Caves of Koilos
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
1 Swamp
Once I switched to Eldrazi, I realized how much I missed Lingering Souls from the Processor builds. Once I switched SV to Relic, it was easy to add back wasteland strangler with Path/Relic/TKS to activate it. The card is just so much value.
The mana base is fine- 10C 14B 11U 12W. Not great, but it seems to be working alright.
The current flex slots in my mind are the Battterskull/Reality Smasher/SpellSkite. 16 artifacts could be higher; I'd like at least 17, so the reality smasher may become another EE. I need to test more- this is all still very much theoretical.
Anyways, will report back after I've had some time to playtest, hopefully this week.
Cheers.
Edit: changed the flex slots. I think I prefer EE to skite and smasher over batterskull.
Have you tested this list at all? It looks sweet. I wanted a more aggressive approach, which made me jump to Eldrazi additions first off, but I'm at odds with having to drop ensnaring bridge. How does this fare in the current meta? It seems very powerful at first glance.
Have you tested this list at all? It looks sweet. I wanted a more aggressive approach, which made me jump to Eldrazi additions first off, but I'm at odds with having to drop ensnaring bridge. How does this fare in the current meta? It seems very powerful at first glance.
1 outpost seige
3 thopter foundry
2 sword of the meek
4 chalice of the void
4 ensnaring bridge
3 blood moon
4 simian spirit guide
3 Pyroclasm
2 terminate
2 spellskite
2 engineered explosives
4 magma jet
3 bloodstained mire
3 flooded strand
2 island
2 swamp
1 watery grave
1 blood crypt
1 steam vents
1 gemstone cavern
4 darksteel citadel
1 grafdigger's cage
3 Leyline of the void
1 torpor orb
1 thopter foundry
1 sword of the meek
4 welding jar
1 spellskite
2 defense grid
1 kozilek's return
Also, 1 welding jar might be better as a 2nd outpost siege. The mana works very well, even with blood moon.
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Blood Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Pyroclasm
4 Terminate
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Academy Ruins
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Blood Moon
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Torpor Orb
3 Slaughter Games
1 Radiant Flames
1 Engineered Explosives
2 shattering spree
3 sun droplet
The sideboard varies a lot. I've been thinking about trying out Etched Champion in place of Tasigur. It clogs the 3-drop slot more, but it (in theory) serves the same purpose acting as a wall early game and a win-con late game.
Why I play this instead of U/B Tezz: honestly, I just really like blood moon and really like the idea of jamming moon/chalice/bridge in the same deck. However, pyroclasm does help vs. aggro and gives you better generic removal in the form of terminate. Occasionally, you get the turn 2 concession off of SSG -> moon. It also makes EE better (EE for 3 in rare occasions that it doesn't destroy your board).
I've also never liked mana rocks in Tezzeret. Sure, they accelerate into turn 3 damnation, which is why I really like the 3-4 damnation builds. However, a turn 3 tezzeret without a zero drop artifact just gets Hulk-smashed by most decks. I've also found too many hands where if I went turn 2 rock -> go, I just got murdered by affinity turn 3. I'd rather play more early game interaction turn 2 and drop a lockpiece turn 3/4.
Any thoughts would be really appreciated!
You just sac orb to foundry before you go off.
One of the only reasons you could have posted this is that you were still on eldrazi and didn't see the eye ban coming. If that's true, I agree that you shouldn't be doing any financial investing in mtg. How has anything in the last 3 months pointed to anything other than a ban for the deck?
It isn't too close to what you guys have going, but it fits here probably better than most threads. This is where it stands at the moment.
4 chalice of the void
3 ensnaring bridge
4 tezzeret, agent of bolas
1 keranos, god of storms
2 chandra, pyromaster
3 spellskite
3 terminate
2 electrolyze
2 anger of the gods
1 pyroclasm
4 magma jet
4 polluted delta
4 bloodstained mire
4 flooded strand
1 mountain
2 island
2 swamp
1 blood crypt
1 steam vents
1 watery grave
2 darksteel citadel
1 academy ruins
1 ensnaring bridge
2 slaughter games
3 torpor orb
3 phyrexian revoker
1 pyroclasm
1 spellskite
1 keranos, god of storms
3 sub droplet (maybe should be dragon's claw)
If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be thrilled to hear them! I know it's not the mono-red version discussed here, but I didn't like the dead ritual topdecks. So I replaced the rituals with early interaction, but then the deck also had no/little library manipulation or card draw, which makes it have clunky draws. Then I went heavier on blue and burn/draw spells. The mana base isn't perfect, but it's got 10 sources of basic islands/swamps, which is pretty good for getting them up before a blood moon. The mana is surprisingly smooth for a Grixis moon deck.
Cheers!
Edit: to comment on what the first thing that comes to mind when I think about this: the artifact count is indeed low for tezzeret, but tezzeret is still the main way I've been killing so far. Tezzeret +1 basically fetches for either spellskite, chalice, or bridge. At a rate of ~10% of the deck per turn, you do miss a reasonable amount but you almost don't care. Tezz hitting means more hate artifacts and people aren't comfortable with him sitting on the table. I would absolutely rather tezzeret to clear out the top 5 cards of non-hate (excluding blood moon) than chandra a random card off the top. However, chandra is still very good and 2 extra cards a turn off the pair of them is amazing. If only blood moon were an artifact....
More bans won't come for another year- there has been the pattern of not banning or unbanning in modern until right before the Pro tour. As that's just happened, invest in either deck and decide in about 11 months whether you should sell or not.