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    posted a message on Why can't we have products like pokemon has?
    Quote from idSurge »
    Modern is not too steep, you really need to stop that line. $500-$700 is nothing to jump into a hobby.

    Also, in one of those fat packs or whatever, I pulled 2 Torrential Gearhulk are they good? Dont know. :p


    In terms of other non-40k tabletop hobbies, it absolutely is.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Why is Aether Vial worth so much?
    At least in legacy DnT, you mostly use it to abuse symmetrical effects. Wasteland and Rishadan port both require you to use your lands instead of casting stuff. Vial lets you keep up pressure without needing to spend mana on it. Not to mention that you need to respond to the vial activation, so you can get nasty nasty phyrexian revoker plays.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on I wanna dip into a new format
    Quote from idSurge »
    Huh, if Brainstorm is so clutch, how is it a $1 card? lol

    Maybe I should look into Legacy. :p


    What makes brainstorm so good is fetchlands. You get to dig three cards deep, at instant speed for 1 blue. After that, you then put the two worst cards in your hand on top, and crack the fetch. It's not quite an ancestral recall, but it's pretty close.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Banlist change for 1/9/2017
    Quote from CharonsObol »
    Quote from h0lydiva »
    I don't understand this idea that everything that doesn't follow the Good Old Accepted Rules Of Fair And Good Magic has to be taken out of Modern. Like, why? Modern has always had free mana, has always had delve and phyresian spells, has always had Tron lands, why does it have to be different?
    The short answer: because that's what WotC wants for the format, and it's what they have wanted since its inception.

    The long answer: In the Modern era, WotC has been too inconsistent with the power levels of the cards that they print. The Modern era has given us powerful spells and powerful creatures, but there is clearly an upper echelon of powerful cards. However, most of those powerful cards are aggressive creatures or combo-enabling spells; there are no comparably powerful police cards in Modern. The end result is that Modern can't actually police itself. Thoughtseize and Blood Moon alone aren't keeping Modern a turn-four format. That's the ultimate irony and misfortune of Modern: despite being sold by WotC as a slower format than Legacy, significantly more Modern games than Legacy games are decided on the earlier turns, de facto making Modern a faster format than Legacy. And the difference between the two formats is a lack of strong police cards, which, as you allude to, don't exist because WotC considers them "unfun". Police cards serve an important purpose in the health of a metagame, and without comparably strong police cards in Modern, WotC can only rely on the banhammer to "fix" the format.

    Quote from h0lydiva »
    Many of those cards and mechanics have been present in tens of decks from the start of the format, they ARE a part of the format, and I don't know why that has to change and why some people is constantly asking for Modern to be turned into some ***** "standard but with better cards" format, where the second someone does something different from playing Tarmogoyfs and Bolts, one land per turn, kill your stuff you kill my stuff and we keep playing stuff and killing our stuff, there's endless cries and appeals to some vaporous concepts about how Magic is supposed to be played and what is "fun" or "not fun".
    You're absolutely right, but you should have been complaining about this for five years. Control players have been. The irony of your statement is that classic control and prison decks have never been allowed to exist in Modern because WotC considers them "unfun", but it takes the banning of a combo-enabler to elicit this kind of response from the community.

    WotC has narrowed the range of playable strategies in recent years, not only in Modern, but in Standard. They've presumably got marketing research pertaining to what players do and do not like, and they've been gradually pushing the game towards accessibility (simplicity) as opposed to complexity (nuance). But the end result is that the game as a whole plays in ways that you're lamenting.

    Frankly, as a Death & Taxes player, I agree with you. I would like to be the format police so that you can pilot your combo deck without overrunning the rest of the format. But WotC doesn't want to give control players the tools they need, and as a result, they have to ban powerful cards that can't be interacted with by aggro decks.



    I'm with you there. I'm a legacy Death and Taxes player, and in that format, we have the tools to punish decks that do unfair things, and we have creatures that are powerful enough to present a decent clock. Modern DnT has none of those things. Ghost quarter+leonin arbiter is cute, but neither of those cards on their own are really all that playable. Thalia just gets goyfed, you don't have mom or sfm, I could go on. I personally think modern could adapt to wasteland, not port though, but even a version of tec edge with the "4 or more" restriction removed, could go a long way to keeping modern more sane.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on How to teach someone to become a better magic player?
    Untap-upkeep-draw.

    Fundamentals of how the game functions are more important than decisions made during play.
    I saw this really neat mat at FNM the other day that had a step by step flowchart kind of thing of all the different phases, something like that seems like it would a colossal help to new players.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Banlist change for 1/9/2017
    Yeah, that was my thinking of the troll ban. I would bet that part of the reason is so they can go "see, we told you so", and not take other cards off the list.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Banlist change for 1/9/2017
    Its also kind of worth noting that the fair decks that never or rarely get banned are also the ones that tend to be the most expensive.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on how Wizard ruin MTG in two years
    I mean, I traded out of modern after they banned 2 tier one decks of mine in rapid succession. The twin ban sealed my decision to never come back. I'm sorry wizards, I played hatebears for a year, and I am never doing that ever again, especially as you banned pod and bloom right when I finished them. Legacy and pauper all the way, baby, control decks are actually good in those formats.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Would removing or reworking "New World Order" fix MTG?
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't more mechanically complex cards tend to be almost strictly better because of a greater degree of versatility? The fact that I can perma-exile stuff with oblivion ring and fiend hunter makes those cards better than banishing light and banisher priest.
    If you can shift those better cards to higher rarities, you get to sell more boosters.
    I would love more powerful commons, and I think NWO is the wrong direction, but new players are the target audience, and I think that WOTC is aiming for a 5th grade reading level(Which is honestly disheartening), at least from what I remember from the article where Maro explains NWO.
    I mean, I'm not going to get a hexproof finisher for my UW pauper tron deck ever for the sole reason that new players find hexproof confusing.

    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on "What Deck Should I Play" thread
    Merfolk for sure. A taxes deck really needs more mana denial than exists in modern to be good.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Selesnya vs Golgari EDH
    I would think that G is the more important color of the options for survival, GZS,ramp,sylvan library,tooth and nail, etc, and both have it.
    It also depends on the commander. The first commander who comes to mind for GW is Sisay, and i'm pretty sure she's much more powerful than the GB options.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on State of the Meta Thread. Talk about modern as a whole; Bans, health reprints and more.
    Quote from Khanth »
    There are many good white creatures that haven't really found a home. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben has a really powerful effect, but don't see play outside hatebears/D&T. There are many more, just being outclassed by sheer power of things like Tarmogoyf or Snapcaster Mage.


    The problem with Thalia is that modern is just much more creature based than legacy. In legacy, you play 8+ cantrips to dig for lands, and a 2cc brainstorm, ponder or preordain, can lose the game. In modern, she doesn't really do anything, because the general larger creatures in modern don't let you present a clock.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on "Better" or "Higher Tier" Decks Criteria
    I'll go with the even match, I play DnT in legacy, and while it generally has decent matchups across the board, it doesn't really get free wins, even against decks you should beat, you still can just lose.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Should I trade Infect for Bant Eldrazi?
    Go with the deck that has both super pushed creatures and sol lands.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of the Meta Thread. Talk about modern as a whole; Bans, health reprints and more.
    Have you played with port?
    As a DnT player, port is much much more powerful than Wasteland, it may even be the best single card in the deck. It gives free wins against infect, permanently locks down shocklands unless you pay 2 life, and has no place in a format that is sorely lacking in instant speed 1cmc utility effects. If they miss a land drop and you have an active port, the game is basically over, unless they have some really strong threat on board. I mean, imagine playing against scapeshift with port: Eot port down your blue sorce, untap, port down your other land, scapeshift. Or tron that tutors up ports with maps.
    Port would also be at least a three of of in every fair deck in the format, probably a lot of the combo decks too, and we know wizards would print it at mythic. Enjoy your 300 dollar land.
    Card would also never ever get through standard. It is the very embodiment of anti-fun.

    I can see modern surviving wasteland mostly intact, you can play around wasteland, and as much as modern players hate to adapt, i'm sure they would. I cannot see the format surviving port, card is 100% nuts.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on State of the Meta Thread. Talk about modern as a whole; Bans, health reprints and more.
    Quote from Grumsh »
    If control players could play more than just Lantern as a prison strategy, would that make them happy?

    I've been playing around Magus of the Tabernacle strategies, and if anyone has a good idea of how to get around my Trinisphere/Goblin Dark Dwellers non-bo I'd be ecstatic.



    I doubt it. I think draw-go control is what people what instead of just locking someone out of the game.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on State of the Meta Thread. Talk about modern as a whole; Bans, health reprints and more.
    We also don't really have a good tempo deck in the format at this point. People talk about miracles in legacy, but have you tried playing a combo deck against a delver variant? It's a nightmare for them. Delver tends to lose to fair decks as they hemmorage cards to force and daze. Delver just does't work without free counterspells. `
    We also don't have any U based midrange decks either, as GB has all of the good value cards, and countermagic is so mediocre in modern.
    Delver tends to lose to fair decks as they hemmorage cards to force and daze.
    In modern, it really seems like WOTC is using the banlist so they can avoid having to print good countermagic,as countermagic makes new players angry.
    I think that unbanning Ponder/Preordain would be good. Give people a reason to play U midrange, and W gets a lot better, as thalia is no longer useless weight a lot of the time. Or, print a pushed creature for white at the same power level of Goyf/Snap. Or print baleful strix.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on State of the Meta Thread. Talk about modern as a whole; Bans, health reprints and more.
    Quote from Djoron »
    You also have tier 1 Abzan, tier 2 Jeskai, the company and chord decks and Ad Nauseam.
    Sure, they aren't mono-white, but fish aside, no colour is really represented in a mono- or two-colour deck.

    And white even is, in Death'n Taxes, which is a super varied strategy in itself, between WB, W, WG, WBC, etc.


    So.. what glaring issues do you see there, or rather, what would want for White?
    WhiteWeenie tier 1?

    (Not saying White doesn't need help, it kinda is "Path and 1W sideboard enchantments".colour ^^ )


    I personally would love to see a Mono-w DnT strategy in tier 1. Kinda fills a control niche, while being creature based enough that wotc cant complain about it. I guess that LD that doesn't suck isn't in the spirit of the modern format though. The real problem with the deck is that it doesn't have the disruption to beat the real unfair decks, and it doesn't have the creature game to beat the dedicated fair decks in modern, aka goyf.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on is modern worth getting into?
    I'm of the opinion that Modern has passed the jumping on point for newer players in terms of price. I'm sure that you can play a brew and do reasonably well at a FNM, but I don't think it's that unreasonable to expect a deck that can compete at high levels for your investment
    Perhaps i'm just being leery of bans after being burned pretty badly already.

    If you are willing to spend a decent amount more, you can build a very good legacy deck(reanimator, DnT, UR delver come to mind as good places to start) and in legacy, even the tier 2 and 3 decks can compete with the tier decks. Legacy also is a much more stable format too. Duals are stupid expensive, true, but you often don't need more than 2 thanks to your fetches.
    If you have a very small budget, then have you considered pauper on modo? It's very high power, and due to only commons being allowed, it's quite cheap.

    Quote from Jayman21 »
    Modern imo is the best eternal format. Interaction is a bit on the weak side but it is not as bad as people make it seem. If you want to play interactive you have to back it up with a compact proactive plan such as goyf or delver with young pyro. This is true about all eternsl formats though. Vintage control has always been combo control hybrids and miracles is a control prison/combo deck. Everything is viable in modern except pure durdle control like sphinx's rev control and 5 color control from standard formats.

    Minor nitpick, but modern's not an eternal format.

    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (9/26/2016 update - No changes!)
    I think that instead of banning fetchlands, printing some stronger land destruction would help with that.
    I'm not asking for wasteland, but something like tec edge with the stupid "4 or more" clause removed.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Opinions on land destruction
    Legacy here. LD is an important part of the game, and a valid resource to attack.
    Posted in: Opinions & Polls
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    posted a message on What is the cost of drafting at your LGS?
    12 dollar drafts at my shop.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Conceding before Lethal
    How does it make the game break down? Mechanically its no different from blocking and then sacrificing to deny damage.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Conceding before Lethal
    I'm of the opinion that the person who swings out and is entirely contingent upon the cooperation of the person he/she is killing is a bad magic player. It might be Legacy, and years of 4x/wargames talking here, but its usually better to play conservatively. Don't give your opponents the chance to screw you over. Don't commit everything to kill a person who can screw you over with their dying breath, like whatshisname in Game of Thrones.

    I mean, it's in my best interests to at least convince the group that I would in fact be willing to scoop, screwing over my attacker. This way, I am less likely to be attacked. If the group knows that I am going to always let the attacker be rewarded, then they have more motivation to single me out if i'm ever in a position of weakness.
    I'm generally willing to let people rewind when they realize that I do have that option though.

    Also, if EDH is a politics format, and all y'all are talking about group rules and peer pressuring people into acting a certain way, I honestly don't see that much of a difference between that and scooping for the purpose of screwing over a player, or threatening to kick people out of your house or something.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Making A White/Blue Control Deck Any Card Recs?
    Standard I'm guessing?
    If you want to play pure draw go control, Teachings, UW tron, and Snowglobe in pauper are pretty fun.
    Posted in: Casual & Related Formats
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    posted a message on White too powerful in MTG(not just about standard)?
    Quote from crimhead »
    Quote from squarlsquad »
    Although to be fair, lands would be an easy matchup for Mono White.
    Lands vs D&T is pretty close to 50/50.


    Preboard, Loam and P-fire are a nightmare. Dark Depths really isn't that much of a problem, you have 11 outs to the token. I guess it's the standard DnT problem of needing to draw the right half of your deck.
    Once you bring in the RIPs, and the tutor, it gets a lot better.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Does not competitive FNM really exist? Casual events organized by shops are still competitive?
    Quote from motleyslayer »
    Quote from The Fluff »
    Quote from Warangel88 »
    Hi guys. I know you probably know my impression about FNM and why I should avoid it. But still when FNM events are the only ways to play magic or the related events are in the same way as FNM (competitive).

    I just want to discuss about the possibility that shops organize non competitive events. I honestly dislike the way people/organizers tell you:

    1. that you should play the game that fast so that you can finish 3 games
    2. that you need to concentrate on the game and not to talk anything else
    3. that you are not allowed to talk with other players that are playing


    Referring to 3

    3. I would be annoyed if someone disturbed me while I'm playing, as it can distract from what's happening in the game. I tend to keep track of how many cards an opponent has in their hands, permanents in play, etc. Socializing and talking about other fun things can all be done after a game is finished. Smile


    at the same time too, it is also annoying if my opponent spends too much time focusing on outside factors other than the game that can wait until the game is finished. Things such as trading, texting/using phone for social media/whatever, talking to other people.

    Quote from spidernova »
    Is it just me, or has this thread been made at least 4 times?

    That said, I cannot stand casual magic. It's way too easy for pure casual to degenerate into a arms race of who has more money. Formats and 'competitive magic" exist to keep everyone on the same level.
    Also, if i'm paying 5ish dollars to compete, I would like an event where I can play against people who don't need to have a judge called on them when I vial in a revoker.
    No, you let the vial resolve, you cannot respond to the revoker. No, that's a key part of my deck, you cant rewind it.


    yeah I've found some "casual" decks can be quite broken. I find some people just use "casual" so that it doesn't fit into a specific format's banlist. I mean there are some people who just wanna play tabletop, fun Magic and not play competitively.


    Exactly, "casual" can either mean powered yagstorm, or it could mean crawurm.dek.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Does not competitive FNM really exist? Casual events organized by shops are still competitive?
    Is it just me, or has this thread been made at least 4 times?

    That said, I cannot stand casual magic. It's way too easy for pure casual to degenerate into a arms race of who has more money. Formats and 'competitive magic" exist to keep everyone on the same level.
    Also, if i'm paying 5ish dollars to compete, I would like an event where I can play against people who don't need to have a judge called on them when I vial in a revoker.
    No, you let the vial resolve, you cannot respond to the revoker. No, that's a key part of my deck, you cant rewind it.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on White too powerful in MTG(not just about standard)?
    Lets see, in modern, White is played for path and sideboard stuff. In legacy, its played for swords, stoneforge,miracles and DnT. I mean white doesn't really have ways to interact with the stack, and that kind of murders you in eternal formats.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on What makes magic boring or interesting to you?
    Quote from motleyslayer »
    Quote from Ebonclaw »
    Interesting? The art, the lore. The power of a deck that offers several different paths to take at any given time and the technical expertise needed to identify and execute the best play.
    Boring? The constant "chase the latest standard deck" grind. Standard just isn't my bag I guess, I tried it for a while, but I only ever truly enjoyed playing caw-blade, for the reasons mentioned above and never really got into a deck that wasn't the oddball homebrew.
    Both? Sensei's Divining Top. Incredibly boring card when your opponent(s) have one. Incredibly interesting when you do.


    the fact that you always have to essentially learn a new deck in standard is what I enjoy about standard, you're forced to pick up a new deck almost every rotation

    modern is sweet because you can just play the same deck for years but learning a new deck is also sweet


    Not if multiple decks get banned out from under you.


    Personally, I like complex board states, and being able to keep opponents from playing.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on In light of recent discussion of the RL, how would you feel if the RL were broken as a player? As a collector?
    Why do people want a tier 1 deck you ask? I don't know about you, but if I drop 600 dollars on a mana base and another few hundred on the cards, I want a deck that wins. Based on the amount of money that magic costs, in any format, I don't really think that's an absurd thing to ask. Also, the power gap between tier 1 and tier 2 in modern is much higher than it is in legacy. Even janky legacy decks in legacy have absurdly powerful unfair options like foodchain,enchantress,aluren,brainstorm, that can steal wins. In modern, you need to work really really hard for something unfair, and if its good enough, it's just going to get banned.



    I wonder if wizards does this on purpose. A lot of the unfair cheese decks tend to be a lot cheaper, and bans tend to hurt budget players a lot more as a result. I mean, in terms of powerlevel, you could absolutely make a case for LOTV being banned in modern.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on [Deck] Death and Taxes
    Played 2 in the board. Was fantastic whenever it dropped. Rug and shardless got trashed by her.
    Posted in: Control
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    posted a message on "Eternal" Format (a.k.a. "No Reserved List Legacy") -- a Matter of "How", Not "If" and/or "When"
    You probably would have to ban wasteland and price of progress in this format. When you tack a bolt onto your waste, that gets free wins,especially in a grindy format.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on In light of recent discussion of the RL, how would you feel if the RL were broken as a player? As a collector?
    As a player, I would like more people to play with.

    As a collector, well, I only own non blue duals, and not that many, but I would be perfectly fine with the value tanking.

    Down with the reserve list
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Magic's newest "player": Martin Shkreli. Good for the reserved list case?
    They absolutely have the right, but in my mind, they need to either kill the reserve list, or kill sanctioned legacy.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Magic's newest "player": Martin Shkreli. Good for the reserved list case?
    You are drastically overrating the price of the kind of machine you need to play CS go. You don't really need more than a 500 dollar PC to get more than 60 frames per second.
    Also, imagine if a gun company hosted a shooting event, where you had to use particular guns and then the company refused to manufacture those guns.
    It's also a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. Higher end computers have more transistors in them, better guns or cameras have more precise machining. Better magic cards do not cost more to make. Its artificial scarcity at its finest.

    Honestly, I'm not surprised that people are turning to counterfeits.It's the market's attempt to address a problem in the supply.

    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Magic's newest "player": Martin Shkreli. Good for the reserved list case?
    Quote from ElAzar »
    The problem is not only that.

    Its also very unsportsmanlike. Why? Because some people play real cards, but are still on a budget. They got their duals, but still no Tabernacle, or they play Merfolk without Wasteland, or are still missing that grim tutor. Not every legacy player has all the cards he needs.

    Someone who simply uses counterfeits has no such restrictions. At what point do you belive just getting counterfeits to play becomes cheating for getting such an advantage over your opponent restricted by the cards he actually owns?


    You're right. The person who has more money should have a strict mechanical advantage of several percentage points over people who have less.I just love getting free wins when I get to wasteland a fetch+shockland.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on [Deck] Death and Taxes
    Elves is gross, you have to do everything exactly right, and they have to stumble somewhere to have even a shot at winning.
    Posted in: Control
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    posted a message on Magic's newest "player": Martin Shkreli. Good for the reserved list case?
    I'm the opinion that MTG is basically one giant pyramid scheme right now. Wotc sells boosters to casuals and new players, who in turn get sharked out of their cards. The problem is that thanks to wotc both massively increasing print run thanks to the influx of new players, and at the same time powering down everything, it's really really hard to trade up from standard. RL is kinda saying, Oh, didn't start 10 years ago? Better drop the price of a crappy car for a good deck. Am I the only one who thinks that this is just a little absurd?

    I would be perfectly happy eating a massive loss of value on my duals if it meant new people would come to play legacy.

    Edit- To be fair, I don't really have all that many duals, just enough to be able to switch from DnT to maverick or aggro loam if I feel like it.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Friday Night Magic
    Drafts are better for new players with smaller collections. Depends on the store, but in general, you can expect to see decks copypasted from top8 finishes. Constructed is 5-6 dollars on average, draft should be 10-12 dollars.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on What's the consensus on new Legacy players?
    Quote from TRBobal »
    spidernova, DnT was one of the decks I was seriously interested in. Can you tell me a bit about your experiences with it?


    Sure. You don't really have any horrible matchups aside from elves, elves is really really bad, if you lock out the combo, they just make a billion elves, and if you start going after their creatures,you get hoofed. Your mana denial plan is strong, and your fair game is decent. Jitte outright wins creature matchups if it connects once. Vial is my favorite magic card ever. Generally name Deathrite on a revoker, if you have to play it totally blind. Karakas is really really good, espcially with a thalia and vial. Flickerwisp is also really sweet. Deck plays like a control deck more than midrange, pass turn, eot vial. Get your vial activation priority right, and don't ever let someone cheat you out of something after they said vial activation resolved. Mulling is hard too, all of the hands you draw tend to look mediocre at absolute worst. You hardcast batterskull a lot more than you would think. The big goal is to keep your opponent from winning, after that, you kind of win incidentally. Take it slow, you are a control deck, not an aggro deck. Casting catacyslm against miracles or Jund feels super good.

    Deck has a few weaknesses tho. You don't really auto-win anything, and you can't make mistakes ever, as you don't have brainstorm to dig you out of holes. You also can draw the wrong half of the deck sometimes. I don't want my mirran crusaders against storm, and my thalias aren't fantastic against Jund.
    Deck is tier1 good, but you need to play it really tight, and sometimes you just lose particular games through no fault of your own.


    Ideally the progression is
    T1 vial
    T2 waste+path/port/thalia, eot vial in mom
    t3 two drop/mana denial, eot vial in revoker/sfm/thalia/serra
    t4, keep up mana denial, start beating face
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on What's the consensus on new Legacy players?
    Quote from Gish »
    Quote from spidernova »
    The biggest reason i'm playing legacy right now is that i've had three modern decks banned out from under me. I wish I could afford dual lands, but wizards has seen to that, so DnT forever it is.


    Not a bad choice, DnT is a lot more fun than many decks with duals!

    Every Legacy player I've personally met has been very friendly. I don't play much anymore, but years ago when I first got into the format I built some budget mono B decks to try out. My opponents had tier 1 decks but we still had good games and I learned a lot. Everyone was supportive and I got some advice but nothing overbearing. I got addicted to the format and quickly built some better decks but the awesomeness of my (now sadly defunct) Legacy community stuck with me.

    I'd say 90% of my bad experiences in Magic have been with Standard, the other 10% Modern.


    Yeah, i've had the deck for about a year, and it's nice actually getting to have decent mana denial.

    My horrible experiences with magic have been EDH or kitchen table magic.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on What's the consensus on new Legacy players?
    The biggest reason i'm playing legacy right now is that i've had three modern decks banned out from under me. I wish I could afford dual lands, but wizards has seen to that, so DnT forever it is.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (4/4/2016 - Eye of Ugin banned, Ancestral Vision/Sword of the Meek unbanned)
    Quote from bocephus »
    Quote from xxhellfirexx3 »
    Quote from ktkenshinx »

    The banlist thread cycle continues! As usual, Moon is fine. It doesn't even see play in any of the top-tier decks today, or at least sees extremely minimal and sporadic play in a few of their sideboards. The card is neither dominant nor format warping (plenty of top-tier decks are playing Moon-vulnerable manabases), and cards aren't banned because we dislike playing against them and they beat up our deck.
    no, but some of the cards from 8th and 9th aren't what I would call fun magic, and that is a criteria for what wizards wants for this format. a turn 2 ssg into blood moon on the draw, or an affinity deck puking out there hand and then a turn 2 blood moon on the play from opal, is something I wouldnt allow if I had any say. based off of this, If i had a say, Id ban opal and ssg immediately, maybe even become immense. then, see what the format looks like after words. the format would then probably slow down which would cause tron to take up too much meta share, I would then hit tron lands, and be very happy with the new modern. And im sure everyone else would be who enjoy actual games of magic, the end.

    Many of us like the type of magic that you're decrying - the game (and this format specifically) exist for all the people who don't want to be bound to the current design philosophies and restrictions. If you don't want to deal with blood moons (or other 'unfun' cards like Ensnaring Bridge), a LITTLE bit of fast mana, and some occasional combos, then go play standard.


    Not saying I disagree with you entirely, but your argument could be turned around on you, and someone could tell you if you like to play that kind of Magic, go play Legacy. Just saying.

    I believe the Modern format was created for the newer player. Look where they started it. Its when the up tick in attendance started to rise again. With the way they have maintained the format I also think Wotc is leaning away from what you desire for the 'good old' days.

    I believe modern exists in the midpoint between Legacy and Standard - and as such both sides of the equation need to make concessions towards the other side. Some combo, 'unfun' prison stuff and fast mana from legacy exist alongside the more midrangey sorts of standard strategies.

    I don't think the modern format was created specifically for the newer player at all. I think it's intended to be a more universal format where many wayward players can find a home.


    Not to mention a format where they can at least pretend to reprint staples.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Buy a Box Promo - Thalia
    This seems really good in Legacy DNT. Plays nice with mana denial and aether vial, slots right into the three drop slot if you cut a wingmare/crusader and a wisp, lets me wasteland fetches, and ruins Show and Tell, Entreat, and some other stuff too. The fact that she's legendary is just icing on the cake for karakas.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (4/4/2016 - Eye of Ugin banned, Ancestral Vision/Sword of the Meek unbanned)
    Quote from Equinox2793 »
    Quote from DHamlin »
    Quote from Equinox2793 »
    I don't know why this discussion is only about twin. The metagame is significantly more interactive right now and there are more legal decks. The ban accomplished what it was set out to do. If you want to play twin play Sneak and show in legacy it's similar. The only card I would want on the ban list is choke. It is a narrow hatecard that punishes people for just playing magic with the color blue in their deck. No good magic is promoted by the card's existence.

    Lol, Choke is annoying, but the decks it affects can usually play around it. Would be worse for them if everyone ran Boil.


    Choke flat out wins games by itself and it encourages players fetching for non island cards early on so they don't get blown out. Seeing a basic forest makes me want to fetch for something else just because of the threat of the card. That is the definition of unhealthy magic the gathering.


    How is that unhealthy? You perceive a potential threat, and play around it. Mana bases are just another aspect of the game that can be targeted, nothing sacred about them.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Full Set List is Up
    I would hardly call DnT cancer. Its the fairest deck in legacy.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on New Format on Its Way Edit No it's not.
    If you have a legacy without the reserve list, Price of Progress has to go. Probably wasteland too.

    And that would make a lot of people really really mad, especially the people who just went out and bought EM wastes.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (4/4/2016 - Eye of Ugin banned, Ancestral Vision/Sword of the Meek unbanned)
    DRS was banned for the same reason that GSZ was. It's a 1 drop that is always a fantastic topdeck, especially in a format without swords to plowshares. Apples to oranges comparing it to stoneforge.

    My gut tells me that stoneforge is really more of a control/prison card than a midrange one, but that might be my legacy experience talking.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (4/4/2016 - Eye of Ugin banned, Ancestral Vision/Sword of the Meek unbanned)
    Even the fair decks all have some borderline "unfair" cards.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (4/4/2016 - Eye of Ugin banned, Ancestral Vision/Sword of the Meek unbanned)
    Quote from FZA »
    Quote from solidscheme »
    Quote from FZA »
    Quote from solidscheme »
    So you're telling me all of the artifact disruption in Modern is not able to stop an equipment that doesn't do anything until after damage? Turn three 4/4 gets beat by 1,2,3-mana spells. Abrupt Decay, Reclamation Sage, Path to Exile, Terminate, Echoing Truth, Ancient Grudge, Pithing Needle, Dismember, Beast Within, Stony Silence? That's just the minimum. Dude, this not standard. Those banned cards are no where near as effective as they use to be. You can be comboed-out or poisoned on turn three/four.


    If you think that Abrupt Decay or Path to Exile "beat" Stoneforge Mystic than you must be pretty off on some key fundamentals of Magic.

    SFM doesn't past the lightning bolt test. You get an equipment that stays in your hand unless manually put it down or find a way to keep another SFM safe for a turn. Tell me what I'm missing especially since you picked only TWO cards out of all the options?


    You're missing the fact that even if SFM is killed, you still got to tutor for an equipment. So I spent one card to kill your card which replaced itself. You got a 2 for 1, and all I got was a very marginal tempo gain (if I killed it with a bolt).

    The only cards that profitably answer SFM are either too narrow to be played main deck (Ancient Grudge) or cost more than 2 mana (Kolaghan's Command).

    Honestly though if you're going to cite cards like Pithing Needle or Beast Within (lol) as reasons that SFM is safe to unban, it suggests you're pretty out of touch with the format.



    All I want to say is that the swords are unplayable if you need to hard cast them. Tapping 3 mana for sword of what and ever can lose you a game easy. They also require a boardstate.

    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (4/4/2016 - Eye of Ugin banned, Ancestral Vision/Sword of the Meek unbanned)
    I honestly think that JTMS and SFM would be perfectly fine. Based on my legacy experience, Jitte is just too absurdly strong.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from jackad7 »
    I feel like it's good to not reprint items in mass quantity. No I don't like expensive cards and yes I like reprints but if we stop back there are some good things. It encourages people to make new decks and makes special sets like modern masters more fun. The biggest downside to no reprints is people take advantage of it like speculators and stores likr scg that control the market.


    The best way to get people to make new decks is not to make the strictly best cards 100x times the price of the next best one. Especially with lands, i'm not going to play with a sub optimal mana base.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (4/4/2016 - Eye of Ugin banned, Ancestral Vision/Sword of the Meek unbanned)
    Quote from solidscheme »
    Question: Why is Stoneforge Mystic, Jace, The Mind Sculptor banned? SFM has soooo many answers to it and it's equipment. Jace is extremely lackluster for a turn four play especially in this aggro and combo environment. Jace never even set foot in Modern. He was banned straight from Standard all because that format at the time had limited answers to planeswalkers and activated abilities. All it needed was Pithing Needle and Caw Blade wouldn't be much of a threat. Modern on the other hand is filled with answers.

    Other cards that have many answers for them in Modern are Umezawa's Jitte, Dread Return and Second Sunrise.

    What gives?


    Jitte I can answer. If the equipped creature connects with anything once, it basically becomes impossible to beat the jitte controller with creatures. At absolute worst it gains you a bunch of life.
    Jitte might as well read 2c, win all creature combat for the rest of the game. Stoneforge is banned because a 4/4 vigilance lifelinker at the end of t3 is too strong for the format.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (4/4/2016 - Eye of Ugin banned, Ancestral Vision/Sword of the Meek unbanned)
    I think JTMS would be perfectly fine, honestly. My experience with the card has been that you need to stabilize before he takes over the game, dropping a Jace onto a board with more than one creature or threat gets him killed. Midrange creature decks get an insane amount of power at the four drop slot, with all these versatile creature cards.I also find it very hard to imagine that JTMS would push Jund or Coco out of tier 1.
    But really, I think a lot of the problem is that threats are more powerful than answers, and control doesn't really have a game ending superthreat, and even a lot of the more controling decks in the format, like grixis, or UWR, play a lot closer to what I would call midrange.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (4/4/2016 - Eye of Ugin banned, Ancestral Vision/Sword of the Meek unbanned)
    Quote from ed06288 »
    I feel modern will continue to have linear decks until fair decks are pushed. I like the possibility of unbanning bloodbraid elf, stoneforge, maybe jace. I still feel that jund is too clunky despite having a larger meta game share now.

    I could be opening a can of worms here, but why isn't sinkhole played more in legacy? Maybe land destruction could be better in modern. Stronger stone rains or ghost quarters could be good.


    Double black on turn 2 is rough, and the attrition decks that would want sinkhole would rather be casting a Hymm, Jund just wants to rip your hand apart and beat face with a goyf, Shardless wants to do borderline unfair things with agent, Maverick has the rough mana base, and plays a hatebears game. DnT cant do the mana base needed for that.
    I agree that having ghost quarter as our default LD is really lame, but good LD is "unfun", and symmetrical effects are always the most broken.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from TheAller »
    Nahiri, the Harbinger is spiking. Not sure why.

    I believe that someone posted about it being very strong in legacy miracles.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (4/4/2016 - Eye of Ugin banned, Ancestral Vision/Sword of the Meek unbanned)
    At least as far as I understand it, GSZ is banned because its too good at every stage of the game, much like deathrite
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (4/4/2016 - Eye of Ugin banned, Ancestral Vision/Sword of the Meek unbanned)
    I kind of want to build kiki-chord or abzan company, the decks look like the closest to pod that I can get in modern now. The question is, how safe do ya'll think they are from the banhammer? I really don't want to get a third deck banned.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Best "enter the battlefield" creatures
    Quote from DrPhilG »
    I've always been fond of Wood Elves and Wall of Blossoms. Sex Monkey used to se quite a bit of play as well.

    Many evoke creatures have nive ETBs, like Mulldrifter, Shriekmaw and Ingot Chewer.


    I love mulldrifter so much.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from rcwraspy »
    Quote from Colt47 »
    In the case of video games the logic on what people spend to be competitive is a bit misleading, as equipment is very standardized for competitive play now and players aren't restricted from content simply because they are missing a high quality headset. In magic it's fully possible not to even be able to play a deck at all without a specific card against another player with any chance of winning because the card in question is extremely costly to purchase. In PC gaming the worst that can happen is someone has a stereo headset vs a surround sound one, which makes very little difference in the long run since most game worthy PCs already have virtual surround sound. And if we are going to go down the lines of comparing a business / every day computer to a gaming computer we might as well be comparing ducks to oranges.
    You still need the best of the best processors, motherboards, gfx cards, RAM, SSDs, etc. The cost of entry into competitive PC gaming is pretty similar to a competitive Modern or even Legacy deck. But you have many more opportunities to cut costs in Magic. You can build a great collection over years of playing the game, trading, and buying at the right times. My MTG collection is probably worth about $10,000 if I cashed out right now but I probably only paid $2500 for it over the years.

    Magic is no more expensive than many, if not most, other hobbies, and I'd still argue it's one of the cheapest there is. If you want to buy in immediately it's going to cost, but then you're set for quite a while. Or you can go the opposite route and make smaller purchases over time.


    They aren't comparable because the value out of the computer is ages higher due to it encompassing many games, not just the one. Magic does have a lot similarities to B2P games with cash shop, though. And you also don't need top of the line gear to do competitive gaming. How much horsepower do you think Counterstrike source, Starcraft II, League of Legends, etc, actually take? The games pushing tech boundries aren't competitive games, they are a different beast altogether.

    Games that push tech boundries are The Witcher 3, Star Citizen, Fallout 4, etc. Largely single player titles. Some MMORPGs also do it as well such as Final Fantasy XIV ARR, but not on the same level since the game needs to run on a lot of different hardware.

    Also, the amount of money some people have put into MTG during the same period a person would own the typical high end gaming system (MSRP about 1500 usd to 1800usd) is way higher than the PC itself even with game purchases. We're talking SLI rigs sporting GTX 800 series high end cards, which easily pushes the cost over 2000 usd assuming someone built it themselves.

    Most high end systems are good without upgrades for up to 2-3 years, and usually it's a minor fix like a new graphics card.



    Thank you. You don't need more than a 500ish dollar computer to play csgo, Lol, Dota2, most fighting games, at 60+ fps.I don't really get why people are claiming that you need an sli 980ti system to play competitive video games.The same is not true for MTG at all. I would bet money that the the percentage advantage,(assuming equal skill) that a person with a 980ti has vs a 120 dollar graphics card is less than bloodstained mires instead of tarns. Same goes for all the expensive peripherals. I don't think that the same is doable in modern. Video games also let you switch up roles. If i'm playing a figher, and I get tired of it, I can switch to a wizard or whatever as part of the game. I cannot do that in magic, I would need to drop the price of another computer on it.

    That is not true for MTG in the slightest. I don't care how good you are, if the other guy has strictly better cards than you do for budget reasons, he is going to win a lot more of the time.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from rcwraspy »
    Magic is the least expensive hobby i can think of.


    you're joking, right?
    how does having to shell out $15-$60 or more per card for just a staple land card(and more than likely needing 2-4 of the card plus others around the same price) so you can have proper mana cheap? that's not even mentioning the fact that you'll need rares and mythics, on top of hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of lands, just to make a semi-competitive deck. Magic is Far from, "the least expensive hobby," i can think of. here's a list of hobbies that are cheaper than a Tier 2 modern deck, and you'll Be able to continue these hobbies for the rest of your life without having to invest more money(or little money) after it's all said and done:

    -Hiking
    -Fishing
    -biking
    -weight lifting
    -Dungeons & Dragons
    -swimming
    -basketball
    -Drawing/art

    i can go on and on, but i'm going to stop the list or finishing it would take me all day.
    my point is that Magic is in no way, shape, or form, cheap. sure, you can make a budget deck for $50. but that doesn't mean you'll win, have fun with it, or get a lot of use out of the thing. hell, it'd be better to buy a $50 video game if you're looking to maximize the amount of time your money will keep you occupied. Even just semi-competitive Magic isn't for somebody who doesn't have much money, and trying to say otherwise is pretty ignorant.

    the bottom line is this: Magic is far from a cheap hobby. it may even be one of the furthest things from a cheap hobby.
    I don't consider sports hobbies so if you do then I guess that makes sense. That said, some of those sports can get MUCH more expensive than Magic depending on how you're doing it. In order to buy the most expensive Modern deck, you need about $2500. For the most expensive bike out there? That's more expensive than the most expensive Vintage decks. Hiking/camping/fishing can be similarly expensive depending on how seriously you take it. It's not correct to compare the most expensive part of one thing against the least expensive part of another.

    And what are you playing your $50 video game on? Your $3k PC?

    EDIT: And that's all ignoring the fact that out of all those things, Magic is more capable of paying for itself than any other hobby I can think of. Go 2-2 or better every FNM and pretty soon you're buying staples off store credit or making enough to pay off the initial investment. Can't do that with your $5k camping gear.


    3k dollars for a PC that you use just for gaming is absolutely absurd. You really don't need to spend more than 800 dollars to get a 1440 60fps machine that's good for at leat 3 years, I built mine for 600. I COULD have spent the money on a new deck, but I'm too scared of bans to ever invest in modern again.

    I also really think that comparing magic to other tabletop hobbies is much fairer, and boardgames, wargaming, and PnP is a much fairer comparison.
    Material costs are actually a thing for biking and camping.
    Also, imagine if a sports manufacturer stopped making a particular type of gear, while still supporting a type of event that having that gear gave you a strict advantage in. At least you can still buy high end bikes, tents, and whatever from the manufacturer.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Is it worth it to play the 'Sword of X and Y' again?
    Too slow, they eat up your t3 and half of turn 4, and require a board presence. They are ok SB, but you probally have better silver bullets.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Is magic FNM a real social experience for you?
    My legacy fnms are the most chill experience possible. This is despite everyone being pretty hardcore players. There might be something to it when we joke about legacy being a thousand dollar+ casual format.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (4/4/2016 - Eye of Ugin banned, Ancestral Vision/Sword of the Meek unbanned)
    From my experience playing legacy, fair decks don't really care about force. DnT, Maverick, Jund, Shardless Bug all just play lots of good stuff, and 2 for 1 ing yourself isn't normally the best idea.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on The two types of magic players- FNM vs casual
    Accepting that missed (optional) triggers are gone, and just not making the same mistake again makes you a better player. I've missed my own aether vial triggers, or messed up on port activations or sequencing plenty of times and lost games because of it. Granted, Aether Vial is a pretty complex card mechanically, but getting burned by my mistakes, and learning from them has only made me a better player.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on The two types of magic players- FNM vs casual
    I just want to say that most casual players never even go to FNM, and play entirely at the kitchen table level, and that is 100% fine. I think that there are far more casual players than competitive anyway. You get plenty of support from wizards too, all of the giant bomb cards that are horrible outside of limited are designed for casuals in mind. Not to mention NWO has cut down the amount of complexity present in the game, we will never again get another time spiral set.
    If you explicitly don't want to improve, then you probably should just stick to kitchen table. Intentionally placing yourself in a competitive fnm environment with that attitude is just going to make all parties involved annoyed.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Might need a modern pep talk?
    Are you playing mirran Crusader? That card is an absolute house, and BGx decks have a lot of trouble trying to get rid of it.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Is the Eldrazi meta worse than Treasure Cruise meta?
    The thing is, with TC, sure, it gave you so much absurd card advantage, but it didn't just win the game. I would argue that fast mana is far more dangerous than card advantage, especially in a format where we don't have any tools at all to deal with fast mana. TC could draw you 3 cards on t3, eye makes 6 mana by turn 2, and you get to cast really pushed boltproof beaters off of it. On the other hand, no one at my shop actually has built eldrazi, everyone is very skittish of losing more money, after 30% of the players got burned on either twin or pod, both in a few cases. It's this really weird situation, where only the people with deep pocketbooks want to invest in something tier 1, and everyone else has decided to play high tier 2 decks.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Rudest/Worst MTG SHOP You've Ever Been To
    Quote from asmallcat »
    Quote from spidernova »
    he will look and up adjust prices on singles AT THE REGISTER.


    Everything else sounds annoying, but I never understood why people god mad at this. You think you should be able to pull one over on the store because prices spiked overnight and they haven't had time to change all of their stickers? Why do you want to basically take money from your LGS? What's wrong with them charging market price for cards?


    It comes very close to bait and switch.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Is it your deck or you?
    Depends on the format. In modern and standard, deck choice matters a lot more. In legacy, player skill matters more, due to how strong and universal the answers are
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Rudest/Worst MTG SHOP You've Ever Been To
    I have lots of shops in my general area. The best of these is dedicated entirely to magic.

    The worst of these stores is located in a filthy mall. The store is too small, when he runs events, they always take at least 2 hours too long, and we have to play on mall tables. His single selection involves looking at binders. You are not allowed to look at the binders, unless 2 people are in the store(one person is usually out). The worst part, however, is that he will look and up adjust prices on singles AT THE REGISTER.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Did I pick a bad time to get into Magic?
    Just play Pauper, OP. Its almost legacy level power, and much, much cheaper.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Don't get the obsessive deck shuffling
    So, this really isn't a thing in modern and standard, but in some legacy decks, the shuffle effects are very important. Lets say i'm playing miracles, and I really need to get a terminus. I go top, don't like, crack a fetch, top, dont like, crack another fetch, top, see the terminus, tap top, cast terminus midcombat. In this case, you can't just shortcut things.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Current Modern Banlist Discussion (1/18/2016 update - Summer Bloom/Splinter Twin Banned)
    Jitte is busted. If you drop a jitte, and get the counters once, it becomes almost impossible to beat you fairly. Jitte will turn a 1/1 into a 4-5 turn clock, it will kill almost all relevant creatures in the format, and at absolute worst, it will gain you a bunch of life if it gets destroyed. And its any combat damage, which makes it even more busted. Swords require you to impact a player's face, swords are also unplayable, because they eat up your turn 3 and 4, while jitte eats turn 2 and 3 with a mana up, or t3 and 4 with 1 and 2 mana up.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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