Devotion and Esper has been dominating tournaments standings for weeks. So yes, they are currently the best decks.
I have perspective. The most popular decks have a tendency to dominate tournaments, because so many people play them. BG Aggro/Mid-Range is a rogue build. Just because it isn't the dominant, most popular deck doesn't mean it isn't the strongest deck. It just needs time to figure out what to play to beat the most popular decks.
The best decks in the format are Devotion decks and they make up something close to 1/3 of the format so...
I disagree they are the best decks. They are the most popular decks. Everyone net decks. Anytime a rogue deck pops up, it takes time to get its feet to detemine how to beat the popular decks.
I've been running UR Control the past few days. Friday night I went 0-4 and Saturday night I went 0-2-1 drop. I've made a few updates based on the match-ups I had. This is what I came up with.
I am a former RDW/Aggro player trying my hand at Control. I am completely underwhelmed with Izzet Charm, so I'm thinking of getting rid of them and putting a Thoughtflare in the main. I really like Swan Song and Curse of the Swine for utility. I was running them main, but they are better in the side. I am considering dropping 1 Swan Song and putting in 2 Negates. Any suggestions would be great.
Etbt lands arent great for this deck id drop the gates for more basics. Id also drop artisan for some gods willing.
Artisan is a terrible card. You need it plus an enabler plus neither get ting countered plus stone protection from removal plus something good to copy. At most its a 1 of card in these decks.
I agree with all of this. ETBT lands slow this deck down a lot. And when I played with Artisan of Forms it never stayed around long enough to copy something worthwhile.
I don't run Artisan Currently. She's good against a midrange deck to copy their target, but generally I've passed on her. I'm only running 18 creatures.
Here's the tech on Hidden Strings:
main-phase (with two heroes in play): play it on the heroes, trigger heroic to untap them (even if already untapped) cipher, swing, more counters and pseudo-vigilance for your dudes.
Second option, play it for free turn two by untapping the lands used to cast it, Cipher, swing, play it the second time on your dudes. This is great on turn two because you can still play your two-drop but also set up the strings as well.
It can also take out blockers before combat, though I don't do that as often it seems.
Seems a little clunky, but I think both cards are decent. It's a cool interaction.
I'm wary of how little removal most lists have....is this really just an "all-in" deck? My testing shows great offensively and relatively solid resilience (creatures and instants, easy peasy), but I wish I had more disruption besides combat tricks.
For those of you on Modo and such....Thoughts?
There is some argument about Bident being good for the deck, however, Aetherize in hand against creature decks is never a bad thing. Let them alpha strike and they get all of their creatures back to their hand leaving you room to attack. I was testing against my Devotion Red last night and my roommate held back. I forced him to attack with the Bident then Aetherized. He lost that game, because he couldn't stabilize enough after.
EDIT: So, I haven't been playing Triton Tactics or Artisan of Forms. When I tested with Aritsan of Forms, I just never had the field to make it relevant. I am stumped on the best line of play for Triton Tactics. Do you hold onto it and play it after you attack and they don't block, then use it on two Heroic creatures to untap them to block? And please explain Hidden Strings. Do you play it in your second main phase after and attack on your own creatures?
I played around with bident. The active on it always felt useless unless I had a Triton Tactics in hand to trigger hoplites or allow my creatures to get big enough to survive a trade. And the draw power of it always felt like win more, because if you had 4 mana to play a spell in the first place, you probably should have stung lethal already or at least have been playing the control game at which point super scrying from aqueous, battlewise and gods willing already make each draw a great one, so more draws doesn't really mean better cards.
Something I found useful in testing last night, the Bident with Aetherize is pretty solid. Make them attack and then play Aetherize.
I've been thinking something quite similar to this. I think the Bident is the call over the Spear, whilst an anthem is nice, this deck really shines with digging into more Triton Tactics and Hidden Strings. To that end, I've been enjoying using some Fate Fortold. Its less flashy, but replaces itself, activates heroic, and gives you gas if someone Verdicts.
For the creature package, I could not make a change, its pretty-much bang on mine!
Been quite amazed how good Heroic is. The UW plays out almost like a combo deck, Hidden Strings is brilliant, you can cipher it, untap, play something else, attack, then either untap and play again, or just hit heroic more. So consistent.
Not to knock the RW version, only played a couple of games, but Akroan Crusader plus Young Pyromancer does very pleasing things with Akroan Hoplite or Phalanx Leader.
I played this last night and went 1-3. I attribute it to mostly being a new deck that I hadn't tested. I played it mainly to test. I was a little discouraged, but after sleeping on it I feel this deck is still strong. I never got a Bident out. I did side in the Spear and got it out a couple of times. It was the difference, but I would like to see the Bident more often.
Round 1 was against UW Control. Supreme Verdict wrecked me, going 0-2. Round 2 was against a janky BR deck, going 1-2. Round 3 was a BG Dredge deck, going 0-2. Round 4 was a RG deck, going 2-1. I just need to play it more and figure out the lines of play better.
The How Heroic Works? is actually very useful. I already knew that, but someone new will benefit greatly by remembering all of that. Even I forget some of the triggers and it's helpful to have it reinforced. It can be the difference between going 4-0 and 0-4.
I am thinking I might test this at FNM this week. I may find that I prefer Spear of Heliod in the MB over Bident of Thassa. I do think this list needs card draw, and the Bident provides that, plus forcing their creatures to attack into blocks. However, giving +1/+1 buffs to all creatures as well as the ability to destroy creatures you let through for damage (goodbye Unflinching Smiter!) is really good. The Annuls in the SB are for the GW aggro decks to stop them from suiting up with Unflinching Courage. Let me know what you think.
My LGS has WNM. Wednesday night, one of the players was playing a current Standard Maze's End Turbo Fog. He went 3-1, with his only loss a die roll round 3. I had already started putting together this list I found somewhere (but can't remember where at the moment) for rotation. I haven't considered Theros cards yet, but I am playing this tonight at FNM.
Nothing is lost due to rotation. This is a list I found with a change to the sideboard. I swapped in Elixir of Immortality for Centaur Healer. I feel the Elixir is more relevant against the rogue mill decks we see at our LGS and Saruli Gatekeepers life gain is more relevant than Centaur Healer.
The list I saw last night had no sweepers, just the fogs and Detention Sphere. I'm wondering if maybe at LEAST Plannar Cleansing in the 75 would be a good idea.
Just wondering, if you are trying to not use Theros stuff and focus on current standard, why is this in the new card discussion category?
I am trying to useTheros cards. This is the shell that will use Theros to upgrade it. For the remainder of current Standard I am not using M13 and Innistrad block.
True. I am focusing on RtR block and M14 cards at the moment. I might put Intangible Virtue in to squeeze the last bit of use out of it. I'm not sure I'll actually get to play it much before rotation. I only have tomorrow night and FMNs, so maybe 3 chances to play it.
And from there it should be pretty easy to swap stuff out for local meta. At least this is the rough decklist I'm working with right now. It is too difficult to predict what the format will look like once people settle into their new decks, so I figure there is no real need to FORCE new cards into a deck that seems pretty stable as it is.
Hey Rayzer,
I didn't add cards from Theros to the list yet, because I am focusing on current Standard. I like your ideas a lot. I am just getting back into things and building from what I have and getting cards to make it better. I have an idea of where I want to go, but like you said, I don't want to force new cards into a deck until I am certain they will make it better.
I like the Imposing Sovereign quite a bit. I happen to have 2 and might throw them in the current SB if I see a need for tapping hasty creatures. I also changed the Manaweft Slivers to Gatekeeper Vines in the current MB. EDIT: I also think 3 Blind Obedience in my current SB would be great with Sundering Growth in case they have Ratchet Bomb.
Played this tonight at FNM, slightly modified. I decided to go ahead and try to get a playset of Falkenrath Aristocrat to replace Hellrider. None of the local shops had them, so I improvised. I had 2 Rakdos, Lord of Riots. I had changed the Land base a little bit. I removed the Rakdos Guildgates to make room for Rakdos. I bought a pair of Olivia Voldaren and put her in the SB. I boarded her in game 2 and she stayed if there was a game 3. I managed to go 3-1. I lost in 3 to BG Zombies. I'll post the deck list later. I'm heading to bed to get some sleep before Legacy tomorrow.
I changed to Zemanjaski's "GoodStuffRed" for my mono-R deck. I found it is more consistent on the goldfish. I'm either playing this or the Dos Rakis deck this week at FNM.
I went 1-3 tonight with RDW. First round Jund was no problem, but life gain decks were giving me problems. Trostani, Selesnya's Voice was the biggest culprit. Deathrite Shaman was no problem. Thragtusk was no problem. Trostani? Could. Not. Kill. Her.
I have perspective. The most popular decks have a tendency to dominate tournaments, because so many people play them. BG Aggro/Mid-Range is a rogue build. Just because it isn't the dominant, most popular deck doesn't mean it isn't the strongest deck. It just needs time to figure out what to play to beat the most popular decks.
I disagree they are the best decks. They are the most popular decks. Everyone net decks. Anytime a rogue deck pops up, it takes time to get its feet to detemine how to beat the popular decks.
4 Frostburn Weird
2 Prognostic Sphinx
2 Ætherling
2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Ral Zarek
Spells (23)
1 Izzet Charm
3 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Counterflux
2 Dissolve
3 Steam Augury
2 Turn / Burn
3 Syncopate
10 Island
4 Izzet Guildgate
7 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
2 Pithing Needle
2 Swan Song
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Gainsay
2 Izzet Charm
2 Thoughtflare
2 Curse of the Swine
I am a former RDW/Aggro player trying my hand at Control. I am completely underwhelmed with Izzet Charm, so I'm thinking of getting rid of them and putting a Thoughtflare in the main. I really like Swan Song and Curse of the Swine for utility. I was running them main, but they are better in the side. I am considering dropping 1 Swan Song and putting in 2 Negates. Any suggestions would be great.
I agree with all of this. ETBT lands slow this deck down a lot. And when I played with Artisan of Forms it never stayed around long enough to copy something worthwhile.
Thanks, jb117! That makes a lot of sense!
There is some argument about Bident being good for the deck, however, Aetherize in hand against creature decks is never a bad thing. Let them alpha strike and they get all of their creatures back to their hand leaving you room to attack. I was testing against my Devotion Red last night and my roommate held back. I forced him to attack with the Bident then Aetherized. He lost that game, because he couldn't stabilize enough after.
EDIT: So, I haven't been playing Triton Tactics or Artisan of Forms. When I tested with Aritsan of Forms, I just never had the field to make it relevant. I am stumped on the best line of play for Triton Tactics. Do you hold onto it and play it after you attack and they don't block, then use it on two Heroic creatures to untap them to block? And please explain Hidden Strings. Do you play it in your second main phase after and attack on your own creatures?
Something I found useful in testing last night, the Bident with Aetherize is pretty solid. Make them attack and then play Aetherize.
I played this last night and went 1-3. I attribute it to mostly being a new deck that I hadn't tested. I played it mainly to test. I was a little discouraged, but after sleeping on it I feel this deck is still strong. I never got a Bident out. I did side in the Spear and got it out a couple of times. It was the difference, but I would like to see the Bident more often.
Round 1 was against UW Control. Supreme Verdict wrecked me, going 0-2. Round 2 was against a janky BR deck, going 1-2. Round 3 was a BG Dredge deck, going 0-2. Round 4 was a RG deck, going 2-1. I just need to play it more and figure out the lines of play better.
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Battlewise Hoplite
4 Phalanx Leader
3 Daxos of Meletis
4 Fabled Hero
Spells (16)
2 Aqueos Form
3 Gods Willing
3 Triton Tactics
3 Hidden Strings
3 Dauntless Onslaught
2 Bident of Thassa
4 Azorius Guildgate
4 Hallowed Fountain
5 Island
8 Plains
4 Annul
3 Imposing Sovereign
4 Banisher Priest
2 Spear of Heliod
2 Ætherize
I am thinking I might test this at FNM this week. I may find that I prefer Spear of Heliod in the MB over Bident of Thassa. I do think this list needs card draw, and the Bident provides that, plus forcing their creatures to attack into blocks. However, giving +1/+1 buffs to all creatures as well as the ability to destroy creatures you let through for damage (goodbye Unflinching Smiter!) is really good. The Annuls in the SB are for the GW aggro decks to stop them from suiting up with Unflinching Courage. Let me know what you think.
1 Gatecreeper Vine
1 Archaeomancer
4 Saruli Gatekeepers
Spells (24)
4 Fog
4 Druid's Deliverance
2 Detention Sphere
2 Divination
4 Riot Control
4 Into the Wilds
4 Urban Evolution
Lands (30)
2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
4 Forest
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
1 Island
2 Izzet Guildgate
4 Maze's End
2 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Plains
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
4 Elixir of Immortality
3 Wear // Tear
3 Crackling Perimeter
3 Negate
2 Assemble the Legion
Nothing is lost due to rotation. This is a list I found with a change to the sideboard. I swapped in Elixir of Immortality for Centaur Healer. I feel the Elixir is more relevant against the rogue mill decks we see at our LGS and Saruli Gatekeepers life gain is more relevant than Centaur Healer.
The list I saw last night had no sweepers, just the fogs and Detention Sphere. I'm wondering if maybe at LEAST Plannar Cleansing in the 75 would be a good idea.
That is what I was thinking when I saw the spoiler.
I am trying to useTheros cards. This is the shell that will use Theros to upgrade it. For the remainder of current Standard I am not using M13 and Innistrad block.
True. I am focusing on RtR block and M14 cards at the moment. I might put Intangible Virtue in to squeeze the last bit of use out of it. I'm not sure I'll actually get to play it much before rotation. I only have tomorrow night and FMNs, so maybe 3 chances to play it.
Hey Rayzer,
I didn't add cards from Theros to the list yet, because I am focusing on current Standard. I like your ideas a lot. I am just getting back into things and building from what I have and getting cards to make it better. I have an idea of where I want to go, but like you said, I don't want to force new cards into a deck until I am certain they will make it better.
I like the Imposing Sovereign quite a bit. I happen to have 2 and might throw them in the current SB if I see a need for tapping hasty creatures. I also changed the Manaweft Slivers to Gatekeeper Vines in the current MB. EDIT: I also think 3 Blind Obedience in my current SB would be great with Sundering Growth in case they have Ratchet Bomb.