Forgive me AG but can you point me to where it is? I'm on mobile and just did a quick skim and I couldn't find it.
Can you update me on your reads so far as well? Who do you think is scum?
Also can you walk me through your progression on my slot?
It's hard to find because it was for a different wagon than the one you linked
It was on the first kpaca wagon. Short version: AG/Shadow was my feel on that one. But it turned out that AG's vote was an RVS one that sat there for a week, and wasn't the smoking gun I thought it was. 584 and 601 are the posts where I talk about the kpcaca wagon.
@Mindreaver: Which vote(s) do you see as scum jumping onto kpaca's wagon?
God that sounds so cocky. Like "it was me, hahaha, and you can't say that I jumped, since i was first!". Just read it as totally gloating.
I think you were the most suspect (kettle screams the pot should be lynched because of how black it is). And like I said, I wasn't dazzled by shadow's vote either (buried in a wall of spliced posts, his reasoning was "I want to lynch Shinichi/kpaca, and since kpaca already has a wagon:". Like, the biggest "pass the buck" move ever. The ONLY redeeming think there, is that he might have been trying to force kpaca to claim. But I think even that is meeting him more than half way (like, would town need to force anyone to claim who has been posting this little?). I think if I was looking for scum, it's one of you two.
I've seen a couple of you mention that the kpaca wagon was terrible. Why was it so bad?
It was the speed. So, if kpaca was scum, some of them have to be hesitant busing in this scenario. Not all, maybe, but some. Because if they all bused that quickly, there is a good chance he's dead. As RE mentioned, if he's town, he's playing an anti-town game right now. Which we will have to deal with eventually.
But what happened here? 5 votes, VERY quickly. Look at these counterwagons, stalling, slow, plodding. I think that says something. Scum could easily lynch RHand here, if he was town, IMO. But do we see lots of votes quickly? Nope.
I don't think you see such broad support unless it's an attempt at lynching town. If I look at that wagon, I trust you and grape. Maybe Vaimes. Shadow and AG? Questionable.
QH's response was very town. RE's too. I don't think either of them makes those posts as scum. They just stick votes on that wagon and end the day, or not say anything, and hammer at the deadline with a shoulder shrug.
@Mind: Kpaca is like this as both alignments. He hardly posted since I joined and he didn't ping me either way.
I have a townread on RE, a scumread on Grape and that's it.
I will invest time in this game, but I can't for another 10 days, so I am basing my reads on, as I said from the beginning, what is happening now.
My points aren't that you aren't re-reading, nor that you don't have time. I understood that going in. But you spent time on me, out of context. Then time going after grape, again, without reading the relevant sections. That's my criticism. Not that I expect you to be posting furiously.
Anyway, care to share your opinions on the Kpaca wagon? Instead of continuing to hedge? Gonna vote it? What about the people on it? Any opinion at all.
Well, that vote isn't doing anything productive. Unvote.
I guess I see why kpaca is a good target for a wagon. He's not going to make a dazzling case to save himself, and a lot of us would just shrug at hist lynch, and as RE just voiced: he's acting anti-town, even if we don't have strong suspicions that it's an actual scum plan. 5 votes sprung up pretty fast, and I only really have town vibes from one or two of you. So I think I'd rather form the natural wagon that should be the leader at this point, which is Vote: Rhand
It sucks that you just replaced in, and I appreciate you doing that. But I can't shake that Roger is just caught scum. He wasn't hunting, he was nitpicking. He wasn't putting forth opinions other than that ours (mine) were bad. I still don't see a lot of hunting from you Rhand. Not reading works if you can be super active, and it's not working if you're just going to attack people without bothering to deal with context.
You are also going almost out of your way to not comment on the kpaca wagon. I waited a really long time for you to actually post something about it. And there were lots of opportunities for you to chime in. It's the thing going on right now. Lots of others, especially QH (who's post I loved. I don't think scum ever say "this wagon is making me uneasy" when it's a mislynch counterwagon 1 week away from deadline. I think they shut up, and then gradually shrug their shoulders and vote. The way I expect you would have in the next day or so. Saying any lynch is better than no lynch, boom.), committed to actual opinions on it. All you have said is "this is typical kpaca". That you responded to that question at all says you think you're in a position to read scum!kpaca from town!kpaca. But you haven't weighed in? That has to be deliberate distancing, and I think the only way that happens is if you're scum and don't want to champion a buddy you think might die anyway OR you think he can potentially be a mislynch and are playing wait-and-see.
Anyway, that's why I think you should be the counterwagon here, and I think you're the best lynch for the day.
For everyone else: I don't in any way, want us to spend the next few days arguing over whether Kpaca and AG are town/scum based solely on how they are lurking. That's straight garbage. They get a reprieve today, because I think Rhand is a better lynch for sure. But I'm not spending the whole game trying to guess somebody's alignment from 30 words over 11 pages.
Oh, and I left out that I could be persuaded to vote Shadow as well. I don't have a great sense of him this game.
Shin/Grape/Terry as never votes this week.
Vaimes/WG/RE I won't vote without something crazy coming up. Mostly I'd like to see what develops there.
Quick, I wouldn't shed any tears over, but my gut says he's fine.
Ok, everyone has their own posting style, some like walls, some like a multiple post responding to points as they go. So I'll tell you where I'm at right now.
I wouldn't be surprised if the scum team was Rhand, Kpaca and RE or even if there was one or more scum in that group. I would get behind lynching any of those players today. I feel like giving Rhand a bit of time since he just subbed in for Roger and my read was on Roger, not so much Rhand. I feel like RE could be hot-headed town, but also feel like I might be cutting them too much slack for some of the things I've seen. Kpaca has done nothing this game.
Can anyone tell me if this is typical Kpaca? The fact that he came in here to say that nothing has changed and yet do nothing to change things bugs the crap out of me. Is there any reason not to Lynch him today?
UNVOTE, VOTE: Kpaca
I'm fine with Rhand, AG, or Kpaca at this point. I'm not voting for RE though, I actually think a lot of the recent responses have been decent. I could see an argument of over-sensitivity, but it's something I'm more inclined to watch. I suspect that scum would have either toned it down trying to mold themselves into something else, or wouldn't have cared so much in the first place. I thought you two were T vs T because in addition to both of you doing the whole Aggro/Aggro Response dance, which I don't know that two people can fake easily, you both also could have EASILY stopped once resistance was applied. If one of you was scum, I don't know that you want attention drawn to you like that. Not when you have the option of just saying "oh ok, thanks for the explanation" and having it dropped. I mean, maybe I'm wrong there, but whats the endgame there for either of you? You convince us to lynch RE and she flips town? We're going to scrutinize you tomorrow. and vice versa. Not a smart long term plan. So in short, I don't see lynching either of you today. If we see flips later, it might be worth revisiting.
What do you think about Vaimes proclaiming your interactions as T vs T, and what that means about him?
@Mind: scum love to get the town to hunt for an SK because it takes focus away from themselves. Which is why bringing up the possibility of a neutral before there is any proof of a neutral is often a show of scum mindset.
Roger tried to explain that.
Why are you replying to a post directed at Grape?
So you think me asking about the setup, in the way I did, is me trying to take away focus from hunting scum? I just want to make sure I understand. I don't really see that leap, myself, since the whole point of my post is to say "hey, I shouldn't waste my time right? That's what my intuition is telling me". I'm not saying "oh we should start looking". I mean I see your point, but clearly from my phrasing I don't think it's likely, and am just making sure I understand mafia setup enough to make that assumption, given the flavor.
As far as answering for Grape, I am pretty sure I didn't answer the question you asked him. I think you're trying to intimate that I'm somehow chainsawing here, but to be honest you're asking Grape a question about your slot and mine. I felt that I could follow up on a slightly different angle, since I don't understand that mindset in the first place. I don't see that it affects Grape's answer about what's so bad about pressuring me on it.
@Mind: He used too many words and still didn't really convey what he meant, but I like where his pressure was.
Can you explain me why you're voting him / me?
That pretty much sums up why I'm voting him/you. Well minus the pressure part. Didn't care for that much either. That said I'll give you a chance to work and try this in the mean time.
Vote: Kpaca
FYI still not fully caught up. Will try to keep up but playing while traveling sucks.
What is wrong with putting pressure on the first guy that brings up the SK?
I know I'm dodging your question a bit, but can you explain why "the first guy to bring up the SK" should affect their alignment? That's what I don't quite understand.
Now, you can't speak for Roger. and I don't really expect you to. But I am interested in why you think he was onto something with this "Mind said the word SK, so pressure him on that". When I truly, truly, do not understand how it would have benefited scum!mindreaver to bring it up at all. Or why a town!mindreaver would never think in those terms.
So I guess that's the problem with putting pressure on me for this. I don't, think this was something alignment indicative in the first place. I just don't understand that thought process. I don't really mind the pressure itself, it's the thought behind why your slot was applying it.
Now, as for why I'm comfortable lynching your slot, Roger spent an awful lot of time being a language lawyer about posts, without generating a single lick of content. I'm also taking Grape's post into account, because once you DO strip those quotes out, you're left with a very clear discredit/deny strategy, without actual scumhunting present.
So In short, your slot has been saying "no no no, bad bad bad, faulty logic" but not once, justified a read. Or come with a question that would lead me to believe solving the game is in their mind.
Hey Rhand, I appreciate your Iso-impression (Attitude of "I'm not here to reread, I'm here for scum finding"), and I don't really need a full reread from you. But would you look over Roger's posts? I think there are like 3 or 4, and give any impressions you have? Anything you'd like to correct or change?
I am currently fine lynching your slot, even though I'm not ready to end the day quite yet. So if there was a time for something dazzling, this is it.
It was on the first kpaca wagon. Short version: AG/Shadow was my feel on that one. But it turned out that AG's vote was an RVS one that sat there for a week, and wasn't the smoking gun I thought it was. 584 and 601 are the posts where I talk about the kpcaca wagon.
I think you were the most suspect (kettle screams the pot should be lynched because of how black it is). And like I said, I wasn't dazzled by shadow's vote either (buried in a wall of spliced posts, his reasoning was "I want to lynch Shinichi/kpaca, and since kpaca already has a wagon:". Like, the biggest "pass the buck" move ever. The ONLY redeeming think there, is that he might have been trying to force kpaca to claim. But I think even that is meeting him more than half way (like, would town need to force anyone to claim who has been posting this little?). I think if I was looking for scum, it's one of you two.
But what happened here? 5 votes, VERY quickly. Look at these counterwagons, stalling, slow, plodding. I think that says something. Scum could easily lynch RHand here, if he was town, IMO. But do we see lots of votes quickly? Nope.
I don't think you see such broad support unless it's an attempt at lynching town. If I look at that wagon, I trust you and grape. Maybe Vaimes. Shadow and AG? Questionable.
QH's response was very town. RE's too. I don't think either of them makes those posts as scum. They just stick votes on that wagon and end the day, or not say anything, and hammer at the deadline with a shoulder shrug.
Anyway, care to share your opinions on the Kpaca wagon? Instead of continuing to hedge? Gonna vote it? What about the people on it? Any opinion at all.
I guess I see why kpaca is a good target for a wagon. He's not going to make a dazzling case to save himself, and a lot of us would just shrug at hist lynch, and as RE just voiced: he's acting anti-town, even if we don't have strong suspicions that it's an actual scum plan. 5 votes sprung up pretty fast, and I only really have town vibes from one or two of you. So I think I'd rather form the natural wagon that should be the leader at this point, which is Vote: Rhand
It sucks that you just replaced in, and I appreciate you doing that. But I can't shake that Roger is just caught scum. He wasn't hunting, he was nitpicking. He wasn't putting forth opinions other than that ours (mine) were bad. I still don't see a lot of hunting from you Rhand. Not reading works if you can be super active, and it's not working if you're just going to attack people without bothering to deal with context.
You are also going almost out of your way to not comment on the kpaca wagon. I waited a really long time for you to actually post something about it. And there were lots of opportunities for you to chime in. It's the thing going on right now. Lots of others, especially QH (who's post I loved. I don't think scum ever say "this wagon is making me uneasy" when it's a mislynch counterwagon 1 week away from deadline. I think they shut up, and then gradually shrug their shoulders and vote. The way I expect you would have in the next day or so. Saying any lynch is better than no lynch, boom.), committed to actual opinions on it. All you have said is "this is typical kpaca". That you responded to that question at all says you think you're in a position to read scum!kpaca from town!kpaca. But you haven't weighed in? That has to be deliberate distancing, and I think the only way that happens is if you're scum and don't want to champion a buddy you think might die anyway OR you think he can potentially be a mislynch and are playing wait-and-see.
Anyway, that's why I think you should be the counterwagon here, and I think you're the best lynch for the day.
For everyone else: I don't in any way, want us to spend the next few days arguing over whether Kpaca and AG are town/scum based solely on how they are lurking. That's straight garbage. They get a reprieve today, because I think Rhand is a better lynch for sure. But I'm not spending the whole game trying to guess somebody's alignment from 30 words over 11 pages.
Shin/Grape/Terry as never votes this week.
Vaimes/WG/RE I won't vote without something crazy coming up. Mostly I'd like to see what develops there.
Quick, I wouldn't shed any tears over, but my gut says he's fine.
What do you think about Vaimes proclaiming your interactions as T vs T, and what that means about him?
As far as answering for Grape, I am pretty sure I didn't answer the question you asked him. I think you're trying to intimate that I'm somehow chainsawing here, but to be honest you're asking Grape a question about your slot and mine. I felt that I could follow up on a slightly different angle, since I don't understand that mindset in the first place. I don't see that it affects Grape's answer about what's so bad about pressuring me on it.
Now, you can't speak for Roger. and I don't really expect you to. But I am interested in why you think he was onto something with this "Mind said the word SK, so pressure him on that". When I truly, truly, do not understand how it would have benefited scum!mindreaver to bring it up at all. Or why a town!mindreaver would never think in those terms.
So I guess that's the problem with putting pressure on me for this. I don't, think this was something alignment indicative in the first place. I just don't understand that thought process. I don't really mind the pressure itself, it's the thought behind why your slot was applying it.
Now, as for why I'm comfortable lynching your slot, Roger spent an awful lot of time being a language lawyer about posts, without generating a single lick of content. I'm also taking Grape's post into account, because once you DO strip those quotes out, you're left with a very clear discredit/deny strategy, without actual scumhunting present.
So In short, your slot has been saying "no no no, bad bad bad, faulty logic" but not once, justified a read. Or come with a question that would lead me to believe solving the game is in their mind.
I am currently fine lynching your slot, even though I'm not ready to end the day quite yet. So if there was a time for something dazzling, this is it.