Mentioned White Weenie that now isn't afraid of mass removal can't play this with 22 Plains.
It has to rework the mana base for colorless requirements, and when it does Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit, Archangel of Tithes and the like will suffer.
This is not a simple bleed. You have to pay the price almost as much as splashing blue. Wizards did a great job.
So my understanding is that a card with Exploit has 2 triggered Abilities
1) The exploit Trigger when it enters the battlefield that gives you the option to Sacrifice a Creature
2) The effect that happens when you sacrifice a Creature
My Question is what happens if you kill the creature with exploit before a Creature is Sacrificed does the effect still happen even though the creature was not in play when the creature was sacrificed.
I could get behind the lowest points in the top 8 being the cutoff but i think it is fine where it is. The reason it is set at 39 points is because until the last few years 39 points was more then enough to top 8 any gp.
K. When this card starts making top 8s don't be surprised.
I'm not saying it won't make top 8's. I'm saying it won't do it in a control deck.
Right, so it will do it in another deck that likes keeping mana up for instants and likes having lots of mana so it can play this and protect it in the same turn....
It will do it in a deck that is interested in a 4/4 for 4 with extra abilities. U/W control already has a great finisher in Elspeth it doesn't need a 4 mana 4/4.
Fun fact. Elspeth only has 6 months left.
Speculating on what a card will do in a format that we know 40% of is pointless
Aetherling could only be protected if you cast it later to have flicker mana up, and had no immediate impact on the board. Your point?
Aetherling:
Killed in 3 turns
Was basically unkillable
Was unblockable
This Card:
Kills in 5 turns
Needs a spell to tap one creature
Needs a spell for each time you want to protect it
This is a much worse finisher then aetherling was and is a worse finisher then elspeth, PLA or Ugin
K. When this card starts making top 8s don't be surprised.
I'm not saying it won't make top 8's. I'm saying it won't do it in a control deck.
Right, so it will do it in another deck that likes keeping mana up for instants and likes having lots of mana so it can play this and protect it in the same turn....
It will do it in a deck that is interested in a 4/4 for 4 with extra abilities. U/W control already has a great finisher in Elspeth it doesn't need a 4 mana 4/4.
I doubt it. It can only be protected if you have an instant and mana available to cast it, and it has no immediate impact on the board. It wants to be in Jeskai tempo or UW heroic style decks, but those decks generally want cheap creatures to pump up. If anything I think he would be good for those decks against control.
Aetherling could only be protected if you cast it later to have flicker mana up, and had no immediate impact on the board. Your point?
Aetherling:
Killed in 3 turns
Was basically unkillable
Was unblockable
This Card:
Kills in 5 turns
Needs a spell to tap one creature
Needs a spell for each time you want to protect it
This is a much worse finisher then aetherling was and is a worse finisher then elspeth, PLA or Ugin
Id argue that black blue and red can read minds. Blue has a number of cards that reveal hands (flavour wise i believe this is your mind), black has a number of cards that reveal hands and take something (forced memory loss) and red has cards that take a card and let you cast it.
he is bigger by himself and can dodge some removal thanks to prowess. and his tokens are way more dangerous than the ones of rabblemaster.
and they dont always ahve to attack, even if its retarded.
sorry but this guy is definitly better than rabblemaster in jeskai for example
In order for mentor to kill faster then rabble master you have to cast 2 spells a turn. If you are counting on prowess to save you from removal spells that this becomes a 4 drop not a three drop.
Rabble master also makes red tokens for stoke where mentor make white tokens meaning you cant cast stoke for free.
I the card will be good. Many thought Young Pyromancer was overhyped, and then he got played in all formats. Most people thought Monastery Swiftspear wouldn't be nearly as good as it is. It is hard to believe that a Young Pyromancer with prowess that poops Taylor Swiftspears, even if the card costs one more, is white instead of red, and the tokens aren't 1/2s, won't see play in eternal formats. An example would be take BBD's Jeskai Stoneblade deck and instead of wasting time with Stoneforge Mystic and Batterskull, slap Monastery Mentor and a few other fun cards in. I would also like to point out how incredible Mentor is against UR Delver. Oh, so you alpha strike me? Bolt (or Swords or Path) your Delver, Block YP with MM, eat all of your tokens with my tokens, GG. In modern especially, this guy is just sick. Use Azorius Charm or Jeskai Charm to gain all the life and it is good on defense or offense? Why not? The prowess is just insane, just this weekend at GP Omaha, a Siege Rhino chump blocked a Monstery Swiftspear, now imagine if all of your YP tokens could get that big...
I strongly disagree. In eternal format the difference between 2 and 3 mana is huge, so comparing it directly to Stoneforge Mystic and Young Pyromancer is very wrong. Spending 3 mana on something that dies to bolt is very rare both in modern and legacy, and when it is the case most of the time the creature has a great enter the battlefield trigger like Vendilion Clique or Flickerwisp, or when it dies (Fulminator Mage). The only cards I can think of that sees play with no effect if bolted right away are pure hate cards like Aven Mindcensor and Magus of the moon or combo pieces like Pestermite. The truth is if you compare that card to Brimaz, it is most of the time worse, even in standard (though in standard the WW is a big deal that's why this one will see play). Especially in Modern with a meta with more than 50% of the decks playing 4 bolts. Sorry, the card does not deserve its hype.
Some comments from Young Pyromancer thread (names censored to avoid confrontation, and no judgement on any of these evalutations, it is obvious that cards are hard to evaluate fully without testing them):
A 2/1 that makes 1/1s when you cast instants/sorceries isn't that impressive and while it can do some cute things it will be very unlikely to warp anything more than Kiln Fiend did.
I think he is good but not that great really. He is not on Burning-Tree Emissary level or Voice of Resurgence. This is an outclassed 2 drop.
Yea, I mean he's a fun card that will probably see play, but making 1/1s isn't really that amazing. It's just a more aggressive MyrSmith and while that card was great in limited, it had far more support, played into a major mechanic of that block, and did nothing ever in constructed.
I completely understand your points, and you are correct that the 3 mana is going to be a barrier for this card, but I think that the card is just so powerful that it will see play, especially is TC is kept in Modern and Legacy. Some are over-hyping, but the card does at least deserve to be tested, and we need to see if the meta changes before we can really be sure. I think comparing it to Brimaz is also a big mistake, because this will generate tokens more quickly than Brimaz in it's intended shell, the tokens will get bigger by just playing the game, and while it's bolt-ability is a problem, prowess and free spells make the card worth trying.
The comments you quoted were almost certainly talkeing about pyromancer in standard where he saw almost zero play.
The difference between 2 and 3 mana is huge in a deck that runs 18 lands.
In standard it is likely worse then rabblmaster. The format it might see the most play in is vintage if you can untap play a spell and cast time walk you are likely winning the game
Man.... I really think Waste Not with Dark Deal will be huge in standard....
I mean... you're on play...
T1: swamp, go
T2: swamp, Waste Not
T3: swamp, Dark Deal
your opponent has played 2 turns, normally he'd drawn 9 cards, played 2 lands and 2 spells in average if he starded ok, he has 5 cards in hand.
so... you'll discard 4 cards, draw 3, he discards 5, draws 4 Waste Not triggers 5 times
you'll get, in average, BBBB in your mana pool, 2 Zombie Tokens and draw 1 card....
from there, you cast a big delve spell, a random 4 drop, another Dark Deal....
this wins games just like that.
I mean Megrim and Liliana's Caress were in standard together with Burning Inquiry and Blightning and it was just an "alright" deck. Considering that those decks actually outright killed opponents when they went off, unlike waste not, the deck might see some play, but I don't foresee it getting very big.
Winds of Change shuffles cards into your library. Putting them into the graveyard makes Dark Deal stronger, even at two mana more.
I don't see how that is so much stronger that would make the card restricted in *Vintage*.
and you forgot the reason why Wheel of Fortune is restricted. Not for the discard, drawing 7 isn't like drawing 2-3.
He literally never even mentioned Wheel of Fortune. You're making an absurd assumption when the obvious parallel is Windfall, a card that is also restricted in vintage. It's pretty smug to accuse someone of "forgetting" something totally irrelevant to their point.
One of the big advantages of Windfall as well as Wheel is that you can play out a hand of cheap spells (rituals, moxen, lotus) and then refill with wheel (seven cards) or with windfall (Likely drawing more cards then you had in your hand). This card doesn't allow for that as you are always drawing less cards then you had in your hand.
But odds are there's less than a 40% chance at least that it's a card they can use.
Just pulling up a random decklist for Abzan Midrange, they have 14 creatures in a 60 card deck. Roughly, that's about a 25% chance that i's something they can use. The other 45% of the time it's something they can't.
Regardless, it's blue hard removal at instant speed, with an upside for sure, but it's a variable upside.
its a 25% chance that they can flip it up. Its also a 41% chance that you upgraded their land into a 2/2. and a 33% chance that you turned a noncreature spell into a 2/2 they they can still use to attack and block.
You were looking at one variant of Abzan Midrange. Other variants run 20-24 creatures, which is 33% to 40%.
This isn't "hard" removal. At the absolute least this gives them a 2/2. I don't think Jeskai tokens is going to be THAT upset when you discard a card to turn their seeker into a vanilla 2/2. This card is utterly useless against any deck trying to go wide.
If anything, the added utility of being able to blank a removal spell along with scry/courser shenanigans will make this powerful.
This is absolutely hard removal. It is hard removal with a downside but it is still hard removal.
1) The exploit Trigger when it enters the battlefield that gives you the option to Sacrifice a Creature
2) The effect that happens when you sacrifice a Creature
My Question is what happens if you kill the creature with exploit before a Creature is Sacrificed does the effect still happen even though the creature was not in play when the creature was sacrificed.
For Example:
Player 1 Casts Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Exploit Trigger goes on the stack
Player 2 Casts Ultimate Price on Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Player 1 Sacrifices Satyr Wayfinder to the exploit trigger
Does player 1 get to search for a card
Speculating on what a card will do in a format that we know 40% of is pointless
It will do it in a deck that is interested in a 4/4 for 4 with extra abilities. U/W control already has a great finisher in Elspeth it doesn't need a 4 mana 4/4.
Aetherling:
Killed in 3 turns
Was basically unkillable
Was unblockable
This Card:
Kills in 5 turns
Needs a spell to tap one creature
Needs a spell for each time you want to protect it
This is a much worse finisher then aetherling was and is a worse finisher then elspeth, PLA or Ugin
You lose the ability to hit:
Chained to the Rocks
Seeker of the Way
Monastery Mentor
Elspeth
Sorin
While gaining the ability to hit:
Sidsi
New Silumgar
Rakshasa Deathdealer
Savage Knuckleblade
And gaining the ability to hit Jeskai ascendancy at instant speed.
I think that there could be some consideration to replacing all/some of the glare of heresys in sideboards with this card
In order for mentor to kill faster then rabble master you have to cast 2 spells a turn. If you are counting on prowess to save you from removal spells that this becomes a 4 drop not a three drop.
Rabble master also makes red tokens for stoke where mentor make white tokens meaning you cant cast stoke for free.
The comments you quoted were almost certainly talkeing about pyromancer in standard where he saw almost zero play.
The difference between 2 and 3 mana is huge in a deck that runs 18 lands.
In standard it is likely worse then rabblmaster. The format it might see the most play in is vintage if you can untap play a spell and cast time walk you are likely winning the game
One of the big advantages of Windfall as well as Wheel is that you can play out a hand of cheap spells (rituals, moxen, lotus) and then refill with wheel (seven cards) or with windfall (Likely drawing more cards then you had in your hand). This card doesn't allow for that as you are always drawing less cards then you had in your hand.
In standard there are too many raise the alarm and hordeling outburst tokens running around
once you start running Fleecemane Lion and friends I would say you are abzan aggro and not abzan midrange.
This is absolutely hard removal. It is hard removal with a downside but it is still hard removal.