Neither is strictly better than the other. UWR's power lies in it's ability to steal wins much like Jund used to. But UW can be more flexible, has more room for things like Tectonic Edge, and is altogether a different brand. It doesn't steal as many wins but you can't really hate on it (unlike UWR, which has certain cards it leans on) and it's much easier to tailor to specific metagames.
Ok it can't be more tempo than UWR (lack of bolt)
But can it be more control?
Most of the time you flash in creatures, you're tapped out, and they die
T3 Geist of Saint Traft, opponent cast lili, die
T4 Restoration Angel, opponent combo off, lose
As Bloodbraid Elf has been kicked out of the format, will this deck restore its glory?
But the question is, what does the advantage of playing this deck instead of UWR Midrange from GP Bilbao?
The Pacts, if any, can go. Crop Rotation comes out against blue decks. Heritage count can be shaved to 3. If there's a MD hate card that won't be needed, like Ooze or Viridian, it can come out.
It shouldn't be necessary to board in more than 4 cards or so. Do that only if you want to stop playing combo entirely and go all-in on a grind plan. That's a huge commitment, but if you want to go there, board out Glimpse and put in the mana denial package plus any Garruk, shaving another Heritage.
Don't do this often, but you might find unsuspecting opponents saving counters for Glimpses that never come.
It's amazing the effect a few boarded cards can have, the deck can flip from combo to aggro to control.
sorry, what is The Pacts?
I currently use the 1st place SCG Open Columbus lightly modified
I am very much loving the rest in peace/helm wincon over the thopters. Having a maindeck graveyard nuke is beyond amazing. Shuts down so many things, especially deathrite shaman, loam strategies, dredge, etc. The red splash is also proving its worth, as a resolved blood moon against BUG makes it incredibly hard for them to win, unless they have 2 of 3 basics out for a AD or pulse.
Even makes me want to make a full combo deck based on RestHelm
U/W Combo is known as a pretty resilient and have good sideboards combo deck
ok lets break down those side boards. heres everythign the sideboards have combined:
2 Abrupt Decay - a catch all for pretty much every hate card especially counterbalance- the onlything i can think of thats relavant that it doesnt kill are tabernacle and moat and those cost so much youll rarely see them
4 Cabal Therapy - mainly for vs storm combo but also good if ur opponent has a specific hate card that they tutor for but often dont play to the following turn for instance decks with stoneforge mystic getting jitte
1 Dryad Arbor - additional zero cost green sun target that can be sacced for a natural order...comes in with the aditional natural order and progenitus is my guess but i dont know specifically when you want the progenitus except agaisnt decks with a bunch of spot removal
1 Gaddock Teeg - anytime u want to hose jace or force of will or more obviously when u want to hose storm
2 Mindbreak Trap - also anti storm card when its yoru worst matchup you come packing lol
My opinion is to play the Stoneblade brew you like and you have the most experience with. My view is that Stoneblade is always relevant.
There isn't any single optimal build for Stoneblade, there are so many variants which is also one of the strengths of the Stoneblade deck. There is no one single list that you opponent can put you on with 100% accuracy.
Some of the variable cards I've seen main deck are
Now that's a lot of variance, which is also why I think this thread is dead sometimes.
When I post a list I'm happy to answer questions and explain my card choices.
However when I read a post in response to a list I post that dismisses some/one of my choices as "wrong", I tend to dismiss it because I know the list works. This solidifies my view that Stoneblade is a really variable list and the strength of the deck really does rely on the pilot.
I enjoy how the meta currently views Stoneblade, its always under the radar. Even after Vidi won GP Denver no one else posted in this thread for 2 days.
definitely agree, there's no single best Esper Stoneblade deck, only the one that can deal with the meta
great quote to define this situation:
I'm probably missing a bunch but the list goes on and on. Not only is brewing alive and well, but Legacy is a ever changing, robust and dynamic format. The crunch to find an 'optimal list' before rotation doesn't exist in legacy like it does in standard. In Legacy you can take you sweet time in a sea of an ever changed meta and card pool and brew away. Legacy is like an endless adventurous journey rather than a finite 100 meter sprint.
and this is my current list after an inspirating list from Vidi:
Has anyone tried Baleful Strix in the Esperblade builds? I'm making my first steps with competitive Stoneblade these days and I think it would fit in really nice.
+ card advantage
+ acts as removal
+ evasive beater and equipment holder
+ recurrable with Academy Ruins during the long, grindy games
+ pitchable to Force of Will
...I just put the deck together yesterday and found room for it as a 2-of and want to see how it goes.
I also see 2 Equipment + 1 EE in most lists nowadays. Is it general consensus that it's bad to run 3 equipment (because that's what I do right now).
Also RE: Venser (discussion on page 140) - I've been running him as a singleton in my older UW test builds and he was...decent. Never backbreaking for my opponent, but never a dead card for me either. He did some nice things for me in some matches. Since I switched to Esper yesterday, I had to cut him but he's certainly a contender for a spot in the deck.
Nice idea! Since Baleful Strix isn't very easy to deal with
What do you cut for it? Creature or noncreature?
Donny chose Baneslayer and a second clique as his additional beaters in the sidebooard, Vidi chose 3 geist of St. Traft. One thing of notice is the absence of Path to Exile from both player's sideboard.
I've been playing this Legacy Stoneblade for the better part of 2 years, what I take from this list is that Vendilion Clique seems to be seeing less play. What was typically 3 copies in main deck, 1 seems to be the correct number.
Spell Pierce main deck seems good again, for counteracting hand disruption and the planeswalkers in the format. Geist of Saint Traft is something I dismissed often because i never felt it didn't play the game we wanted to, but I imagine if his plan is to race combo that Geist was very good at establishing an unopposed clock. This could be critical for a deck that can play a long game to finish match up on time. Academy Ruins has been dismissed by some so as an advocate of running Academy Ruins main, I'll mention that both Vidi and Donnie run it in the maindeck.
Well done, and congratulations to both players.
So happy, since the 1st place is my country's man, congrats
And this will set away my worry about Esper Stoneblade is decreasing in power in the current meta
Inspirating deck, will make my deck 22 lands with ruins
But still don't like souls, will board it out and maindeck Geist
I've seen venser played in a few lists now, and still don't know what to make of it. I guess its a pseudo instant speed vindicate, you can "counter" emmy with it, hit omniscience, Jace...
I havent learned the 'official' reasoning behind running venser.
me too, I don't really like it, 4cmc is just too big
I prefer more clique
I know this probably comes across as childish and I almost feel like I'm jumping into the deep end without being able to swim but I have a few questions with Stoneblade in Legacy.
I have not ever played Legacy. The only reason I want to play legacy is because when Cawblade was standard legal, I played the hell out of it. I loved it. I loved the intricacies, the complicated thought process and correct lines of play. I really want to play it again.
I will be going to GP Denver and looking to play Esper Stoneblade. Is it anything remotely similar to Cawblade of yesteryear? I know most of the cards are pretty similar with some major notable changes like FoW, Thoughtseize, Snap.
~ Whats its G1 matchup like with combo decks? Pretty bad? or just attempt to remove their combo pieces via Thoughtseize, Inquisition?
~ How easy is it to tweak a few cards for a few personal choices or are the 75 pretty close to set in stone? I know Cawblade had a bad habit of only having maybe 4-6 variable slots but is there even that much room for change? I was thinking maybe a one-of of Sensei's Divining Top, 2-of Liliana of the Veil. Thoughts on those cards?
Sorry for the huge post but I'm kind of nervous going into GP Denver with little to no Legacy Esper Stoneblade experience but with 7 months of Cawblade experience will I naturally be able to pilot it all right? I know it wont be great but atleast competent level of piloting. Thanks for any and all help!
Avenged492
Please, you'll enjoy Esper Stoneblade in Legacy
Legacy is a huge, deep, unforgiving but enjoyable format
so honestly at first you'll need a lot of exercise to adapt yourself in Legacy
try Cockatrice if you have a time
matchup vs combo is good, you don't have too many counterspells but it's just good.
but I don't really know because my metagame doesn't have too many combo deck
Ok it can't be more tempo than UWR (lack of bolt)
But can it be more control?
Most of the time you flash in creatures, you're tapped out, and they die
T3 Geist of Saint Traft, opponent cast lili, die
T4 Restoration Angel, opponent combo off, lose
But the question is, what does the advantage of playing this deck instead of UWR Midrange from GP Bilbao?
sorry, what is The Pacts?
I currently use the 1st place SCG Open Columbus lightly modified
Even makes me want to make a full combo deck based on RestHelm
U/W Combo is known as a pretty resilient and have good sideboards combo deck
What do I have to side out if I side in sideboard cards?
Especially cabal therapy and decay
Cause I can't think what card is unimportant in Elves deck
definitely agree, there's no single best Esper Stoneblade deck, only the one that can deal with the meta
great quote to define this situation:
and this is my current list after an inspirating list from Vidi:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
Instant and Sorcery
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Counterspell
1 Ponder
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vindicate
Artifact and Planeswalker
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
2 Marsh Flats
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Academy Ruins
1 Scrubland
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Perish
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Disenchant
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Spell Pierce
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Flusterstorm
1 Darkblast
1 Force of Will
I still don't run Lingering Souls, just don't like it
Geist of Saint Traft can race better, and the 1-of Top is an optimal number (in my opinion)
one more EE in sideboard, EE can hit a lot of things you know
In my opinion, black is necessary enough
Lingering souls, 3counters EE (most important) and decent sideboards like Perish, Cabal Therapy, etc
Never tried Lab before
Nice idea! Since Baleful Strix isn't very easy to deal with
What do you cut for it? Creature or noncreature?
All my creatures are too cute to be removed
So happy, since the 1st place is my country's man, congrats
And this will set away my worry about Esper Stoneblade is decreasing in power in the current meta
Inspirating deck, will make my deck 22 lands with ruins
But still don't like souls, will board it out and maindeck Geist
Oh wait.
Esper Stoneblade.
Esper Stoneblade.
me too, I don't really like it, 4cmc is just too big
I prefer more clique
Please, you'll enjoy Esper Stoneblade in Legacy
Legacy is a huge, deep, unforgiving but enjoyable format
so honestly at first you'll need a lot of exercise to adapt yourself in Legacy
try Cockatrice if you have a time
matchup vs combo is good, you don't have too many counterspells but it's just good.
but I don't really know because my metagame doesn't have too many combo deck
Here is some lists of successful Esper Stoneblade
4 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
2 Marsh Flats
2 Island
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Swamp
1 Plains
CREATURES
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lingering Souls
3 Force of Will
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
1 Counterspell
1 Intuition
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vindicate
OTHER SPELLS
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Force of Will
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Perish
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Darkblast
1 Disenchant
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Spell Pierce
and here's Brian Eason deck, 1-of Top and Geist of Saint Traft
my personal choice
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
3 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland
2 Underground Sea
2 Marsh Flats
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
CREATURES
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Spell Pierce
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Terminus
1 Counterspell
1 Ponder
OTHER SPELLS
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
2 Terminus
1 Vindicate
2 Perish
2 Lingering Souls
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Meddling Mage
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Spell Snare
some tips:
~ fetch and for your basic lands at the early turns (Wasteland is everywhere!)
~ don't be to aggressive, while you can win early, Stoneblade is powerful late game
~ every choice is crucial here. think about every bit of it safely
~ In the end, a lot of exercises will do hope this will help you
man, you're right! will add into my Omni-Show deck
but flashing Teferi into Emrakul is just pretty cool