My circle is pretty casual, so we don't follow formats or banlists. I already have some cards relevant to High Tide, so I wanted to finish a deck for under $50. With the only restrictions being budget, what would the deck look like? I've done some searching and found this, though I'm not sure if it's optimized:
I goldfished it a few times, and it seems to consistently go off on turn 3. With no banned cards, though, I'm wondering if it can be made even better. There are some pretty wonky things that can be done in unrestricted (except for budget).
Is the only purpose of running land grant deck thinning? There are plenty of articles showing the advantage from deck thinning is negligible, and that what we lose by giving our opponents information is not negligible. I'm sure it served as both a land and food for vine dryad and bounty of the hunt, but if we aren't running those cards anymore, land grant is simply worse than a forest.
If we deem land grant as obsolete, is it really fair to say decks with -4 land grant and +4 forest are off topic and not low land stompy?
Edit: land grant interacts with dryad arbor and Talara's battalion, but if you're not running those, I'd argue a forest is better.
I have been playing a casual legacy 9-land stompy deck for a long time, but I'm interested in transitioning to Pauper. I have a few questions about the cards you use.
Is Shinen of Life's Roar really that valuable? 2 mana seems like a lot for a card with 1 power, and it can simply be removed before making use of its ability. Why not use something cheaper like Taunting Elf? It costs 1 mana, and you could use it for triggering Hunger of the Howlpack instead of Nest Invader.
River and Mire Boa seem a little weak too, but Island and Swampwalk is solid, and there really aren't many better 2 drop commons. Garruk's Companion has good power, but it still will get eliminated by any sort of removal. I'm not a huge fan of it.
After thinking about it, the typical pauper stompy deck is pretty solid. Being limited to commons, I'm not sure there are better alternatives.
I took a look at what Modern and Pauper are doing with Stompy, since they are much more active in the archetype than we are. I wanted to see what we can learn from them, and maybe tweak their decks to add some cards they're unable to use.
Pauper only uses 3 Skarrgan Pit-Skulks to avoid getting too many in your opening hand (you never want to play it on turn 1), while Modern doesn't use Skarrgan Pit-Skulk at all.
Modern uses Experiment One, a card we frequently dismiss as bad (especially when used with Pit-Skulk). Maybe Modern is on to something with valuing Experiment One over Pit-Skulk.
Neither Modern nor Pauper use Land Grant, Elvish Spirit Guide, Rogue Elephant, Mtenda Lion, Jungle Lion, or Giant Growth. Maybe these cards are simply antiquated. More Forests seems to be more consistent than tricks with Land Grant and Elvish Spirit Guide.
Both Modern and Pauper use Vines of Vastwood. Most people in this thread dislike it, because you can rarely pay the kicker, but it does seem like a solid way of ending a game.
Pauper places a strong emphasis on evasion: 2 Silhana Ledgewalkers, 2 River Boas, 1 Shinen of Life's Roar, and 4 Vines of Vastwood. The River Boas are probably due to them not having access to as many cards, but the Silhana and Shinen are cards we've seen here. Most people here think Silhana is too reliant on pump, and Modern would agree. Shinen is interesting to me, because it's also 2 mana for 1 damage, and it could simply be removed. I'm curious why Pauper runs Shinen but not Taunting Elf, which we have seen here a few times. I'm not a huge fan of either Shinen or Taunting Elf, but that's simply because I like guaranteed threats in a deck that's reliant on winning early.
Modern seems to like simply power efficient cards. Tusker, Dryad, Strangleroot, and Leatherback are just good bodies for their price. The big bodies help buff up Experiment One, which in turn buffs up Avatar of the Resolute.
Modern and Pauper both use odd support cards like Hunger of the Howlpack and Aspect of Hydra. I'm not sure how I feel about these. We usually go for something consistent like Giant Growth.
Modern doesn't have Quirion Ranger, which our deck and Pauper's is built around, so take everything I say about it with that in mind. It's probably not as good as the Pauper deck or our versions.
Cards Modern chooses to neglect: Vines of Vastwood, Silhana Ledgewalker, Groundswell, Giant Growth, and Skarrgan Pit-skulk.
After writing all this up, I just noticed that the Modern deck was posted in an article as a budget modern deck--it's not really used in competitive Modern, so take everything I said about it with a grain of salt.
I'm going to try working on a decklist based on what I've learned, but feel free to comment on anything I said!
What cards traditionally from this deck are no longer worth running? What sort of replacements should we be using? Is Land Grant really worth using over 4 more Forests? I love using this deck in casual, but I'm not sure how it can be updated.
I'm still not sure how I should balance my creatures and pump spells. I think I might have too much pump right now.
Mutagenic Growth I'm sure should be 4-of, but I'm not so sure about Groundswell. I think it's reliable enough with my Quirion Ranger. Should I run Might of Old Krosa over Giant Growth, or would I need evasion for that?
Is Dismember worth it?
Is Land Grant necessary anymore? I don't have any "Discard a green card" spells anymore, so should I just run 4x more Forest?
I was a huge fan of Eidolon, but recently it has been becoming 2damage for 2 mana due to removal. I haven't been running flame rift with it, but now I might swap in flame rift for it for consistent 4 damage.
Lavamancer has also been inefficient. I think I would rather run skullcrack now.
I think it's a good idea, but you should include Hellspark Elemental in the decklist. You're able to attack, unearth to attack again, use Reckless Abandon and it will be in the cemetery again instead the exile, so you can use for the third time.
Very efficient cards here. Most of the burns are 1cc, and all the 2cc ones are just as efficient. Searing Blaze can help clear enemy creatures so Young Pyromancer can hit with his strong but fragile body, and when they're low enough, you can blow them up with huge burns.
Thoughts?
That's a really cool idea. I didn't think of that. Just swap Hellspark Elemental with Keldon Marauders.
I enjoy grim lavamancer because it can pick off a lot of the problematic 2-toughness creatures in the format (deathrite, stoneforge, delver, etc)., but it's really bad to draw 2 of them.
Also, is searing blaze main deckable? Considering burn really has no game against combo/noncreature decks, it seems fine to just shore up the creature matchups.
That was my sentiment as well. I think if people are finding room for Flame Rift in the main deck, there should be room for Searing Blaze. Especially now with 4x of Goblin Guide and Eidolon of the Great Revel, we can do non-trivial damage with their attacks as long as we can clear the path with Searing Blaze.
Very efficient cards here. Most of the burns are 1cc, and all the 2cc ones are just as efficient. Searing Blaze can help clear enemy creatures so Young Pyromancer can hit with his strong but fragile body, and when they're low enough, you can blow them up with huge burns.
My circle is pretty casual, so we don't follow formats or banlists. I already have some cards relevant to High Tide, so I wanted to finish a deck for under $50. With the only restrictions being budget, what would the deck look like? I've done some searching and found this, though I'm not sure if it's optimized:
4x Cloud of Faeries
2x Dig Through Time
4x Frantic Search
4x High Tide
3x Ideas Unbound
18x Island
4x Merchant Scroll
4x Mind's Desire
4x Misdirection
4x Ponder
4x Preordain
4x Turnabout
I goldfished it a few times, and it seems to consistently go off on turn 3. With no banned cards, though, I'm wondering if it can be made even better. There are some pretty wonky things that can be done in unrestricted (except for budget).
4 goblin guide
4 eidolon of the great revel
4 chain lightning
4 lava spike
4 fireblast
4 lightning bolt
4 price of progress
4 rift bolt,
1 sulfuric vortex
Grim Lavamancer, Searing Blaze, Monastery Swiftspear, and Flame Rift seem like the most likely candidates, but I'm not really sure what is most consistent. Are Grim Lavamancer and Searing Blaze worth running without fetchlands?
If we deem land grant as obsolete, is it really fair to say decks with -4 land grant and +4 forest are off topic and not low land stompy?
Edit: land grant interacts with dryad arbor and Talara's battalion, but if you're not running those, I'd argue a forest is better.
Is Shinen of Life's Roar really that valuable? 2 mana seems like a lot for a card with 1 power, and it can simply be removed before making use of its ability. Why not use something cheaper like Taunting Elf? It costs 1 mana, and you could use it for triggering Hunger of the Howlpack instead of Nest Invader.
Young Wolf seems really bad. I can't imagine it being anything other than a 1/1 for 1 in most games. Aren't there any better 1 drops? Some I'd consider: maybe Nimble Mongoose with Land Grant and more pump, Gladecover Scout, Scryb Sprites. Wouldn't Jungle Lion and Mtenda Lion do more damage than Young Wolf, on average?
River and Mire Boa seem a little weak too, but Island and Swampwalk is solid, and there really aren't many better 2 drop commons. Garruk's Companion has good power, but it still will get eliminated by any sort of removal. I'm not a huge fan of it.
After thinking about it, the typical pauper stompy deck is pretty solid. Being limited to commons, I'm not sure there are better alternatives.
Pauper Decklist
4 Groundswell
3 Hunger of the Howlpack
2 Mutagenic Growth
4 Nest Invader
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Rancor
2 River Boa
1 Shinen of Life's Roar
2 Silhana Ledgewalker
3 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
3 Vault Skirge
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Young Wolf
Modern Decklist
4 Avatar of the Resolute
3 Dismember
4 Dryad Militant
4 Experiment One
18 Forest
4 Kalonian Tusker
4 Leatherback Baloth
4 Rancor
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Treetop Village
4 Vines of Vastwood
Here's what I find interesting:
After writing all this up, I just noticed that the Modern deck was posted in an article as a budget modern deck--it's not really used in competitive Modern, so take everything I said about it with a grain of salt.
I'm going to try working on a decklist based on what I've learned, but feel free to comment on anything I said!
9 Forest
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
Creatures (22)
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Dryad Militant
4 Jungle Lion
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
2 Rogue Elephant
4 Giant Growth
4 Groundswell
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Rancor
Spells (5)
3 Winter Orb
2 Dismember
I have a few questions, though:
Lavamancer has also been inefficient. I think I would rather run skullcrack now.
20 Mountain
Creatures (8)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Spells (32)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
4 Smash to Smithereens
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Faerie Macabre
I like Skullcrack over Flame Rift because it is less suicidal (and my health can be low from Eidolon), and it deals with life gain.
That's a really cool idea. I didn't think of that. Just swap Hellspark Elemental with Keldon Marauders.
That was my sentiment as well. I think if people are finding room for Flame Rift in the main deck, there should be room for Searing Blaze. Especially now with 4x of Goblin Guide and Eidolon of the Great Revel, we can do non-trivial damage with their attacks as long as we can clear the path with Searing Blaze.
You could run something like:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Reckless Abandon
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
3 Searing Blaze
21 Mountain
Very efficient cards here. Most of the burns are 1cc, and all the 2cc ones are just as efficient. Searing Blaze can help clear enemy creatures so Young Pyromancer can hit with his strong but fragile body, and when they're low enough, you can blow them up with huge burns.
Thoughts?