I like this list a lot. Too bad no one else has commented yet. It looks kind of like this floorboards list with the not so good cards replaced with nonbudget ones. I lost to a Call the Bloodline and Sanitarium Skeleton deck at the prerelease and was also impressed. It seems like splashing a color would be possible, but I can't decide which it would be, or if it's even necessary. Certainly looks like a deck that would be competitive for FNM.
There would definitely be a lot of different card choices if this was for single player. But in my area, PDH is mostly a multi player format. In single player, 1 for 1 removal is fine, and I'd play every variation of Duress that's available. But when you play against 3-4 other people those types of cards don't work as well.
I guess Capsize is ok in single player if you can get to 12 mana and start bouncing their lands. You know that if you kill the Capsize target in response the spell fizzles which is my usual answer to the card. And in multi player games other players are more than happy to kill your creature and get rid of Capsize at the same time so it's never been a dominating card.
I find Augur of Skulls to be a kind of slow card. That one turn delay just gives everyone an opportunity to play their best spell or save an extra land to discard to it. If you could sac it at instant speed it would be awesome though. Okiba-Gang Shinobi is more what I'm looking for with the surprise value and bouncing a creature with a good ETB effect.
I'd be interested in other people's opinion of Explorer's Scope because it seemed weak to me for a long time too, but then I started playing it and found it better than expected. Small, incremental card advantage is probably better in PDH than most other formats, but I think it's proabbly good enough for real EDH too especially if you have Sensei's Divining Top working with it.
You're focused on Auras too much, I would drop some of them as you have a quite huge recursion package, so increasing the creature number would make some sense instead, I think.
I'm usually not a fan of auras either but Crypt Rats with regeneration and lifelink is so good that I think they are worth it in this deck. The problem with playing more creatures is that they just die when I use the rat's ability. My main goal with the recursion is to avoid having to pay extra each time I want to play my general. I'm actually thinking of cutting some of the more expensive recursion spells if I find them clogging up my hand in play testing.
I've found that playing Crypt Rats as my general draws a lot of hate so I wanted an early blocker to help preserve my life total. One of the strongest decks in my local play group is Ascended Lawmage which the Fog of Gnats can block over and over. Stinkweed Imp is of course much better for this, but hexproof voltron generals are a pretty big problem. Abyssal Gatekeeper is also in there to help deal with this issue, and I might run Innocent Blood if necessary although it can't be recurred like the Gatekeeper. Unfortunately, unlike Fleshbag Marauder in regular EDH, the Gatekeeper needs to die to be effective which is one reason I play Viscera Seer as a sac outlet. I've been pretty impressed with the scry ability of the Seer as well when digging for answers and just to get a bit more value out of my creatures before I wrath the board with Crypt Rats.
I'm guess I'm not really convinced of the power of discard in multi player magic, but I could be wrong on that. I'll probably try to fit Liliana's Specter and Okiba-Gang Shinobi in first and see how I like them.
I really like the deterrent effect of Executioner's Capsule and Seal of Doom. I don't like playing very much 1 for 1 removal in multi player games, but these cards suggest to other players that they should attack someone else in ways that a Murder in your hand really can't. At least Ashes to Ashes is a 2 for 1, and exiling is a bonus so it's likely worth finding room for though.
I'm pretty sure Explorer's Scope is a great card. It's basically going to ramp you about 38% of the time in this deck. It takes the land you would have drawn off the top of your deck and at least lets you see the next card if it misses. Sometimes you'll have Darksteel Pendant in play at the same time and then it's even better!
I'm finally getting around to updating my PDH decks with the last few expansions. For a while now I've been using Gray Merchant as my mono black general so the deck was more focused on maximizing devotion. I think Crypt Rats is probably a stronger general though so the deck had to change a bit. Basically, Eternal Thirst (which can be fetched with Shred Memory) made me want to try this general again so here it is:
Since the plan is to sweep the board over and over I really only want to use creatures with ETB effects or regeneration. This deck is intended for multi player games where I don't want to play 1 for 1 removal anyway, and with Crypt Rats as the general I don't feel that cards like Gangrenous Zombies and Evincar's Justice are necessary. Consume Spirit and Drain Life were hard to cut, but I think they're just too mana intensive for this deck.
I kind of go back and forth on how many mana rocks to play in PDH, but here I've decided to include them all. Crypt Rats is a great mana sink, especially when it has lifelink. I don't have a lot of use for colorless mana though which is why I'm not playing the 4 mana Sol Rings.
I do like Ranger's Guile and Withstand Death and would like to fit Vines of Vastwood back in too. I think I could cut Rancor for one, but I wonder what the next worst card is.
I've been wanting to post my latest version of this deck for a while but couldn't find the time until now. It seems like interest in PDH is waning, at least in my town, but I still enjoy working on decks for the format.
I am wondering what the general opinion of Planar Chaos is. I've never played with or against it in a Commander game, but it just seems not so good to me. I guess if you have a dominant board position it might protect that for a turn or two. Is it mostly just for fun? What am I missing? Thanks for all the thought that's been put into this deck already.
Welcome to the PDH forum. I suppose one way of playing this format is to look through your common box to see what you already have, but that often doesn't lead to decks that are really worth posting. I mean if you have to buy every card for a deck it could cost $10. Maybe $20 if it plays a bunch of blue cards. So just order some commons (or proxy them).
I'd say there are only around a hundred black/artifact cards worth playing in PDH, and you have to chose about 62 for this deck. I'd strongly recommend looking at Toonamiguy's Nighthawk thread and any other mono black deck list for card ideas. You're playing a commander that begs to be suited up and all you have are a Bonesplitter and a Scimitar? There are some really powerful common cards out there so there's no need to play something like a Minotaur Abomination or Contaminated Bond in this format. Good luck and I hope you enjoy PDH.
The only artifact general in my play group is Composite Golemn so Deglamer isn't that important for me. I feel the three creature that can kill artifacts or enchantments is enough. I also have Emerald Charm as an answer to Pestilence (and flyers). If someone has a good Sludge Strider deck I'd like to see the list though.
Yeah, Invasive Species is good here. I've never played M15 limited so I hadn't noticed the card yet. Replay Wickerbough Elder and draw another card? Thanks.
I agree that in the later game, Explorer's Scope is better than Darksteel Pendant since the first puts the land into play while the second costs a mana to just bottom the land. And unless I really needed one more mana to recast my general for the 4-5-6th time I'd probably always scry that land away even if the scope was in play just to dig for a nonland card. I don't think I'd ever bottom a creature though if I saw it with the pendant. One of Garruk's Packleader's strengths is that even if you don't get to draw a card you still play lots of beefy creatures to block and attack with.
I guess I misread Squallmonger and he does seem like a possible general. I've been trying to make a non aggressive deck based on walls and life gain but couldn't find a win condition. Squallmonger and a lot of ramp seem like a good solution. I'm just not sure I need another mono green deck in addition to Garruk's Packleader, Eternal Witness, Wirewood Symbiote, and Lumberknot although they are all very different types of decks.
I do include Explorer's Scope in almost every deck now. It just took me a while to realize it's power. I also run Darksteel Pendant in every deck too so I don't think that's the cut. I'd like to hear your argument against the pendant. It seems especially good in combination with the scope.
Welcome to PDH kursed. Like Reaper, I'm not huge fan of the Emissary as mono black commander, but I understand if you don't want to play Crypt Rats or Grey Merchant since they draw so much hate. It just seems too risky to me to discard your hand to maybe kill one opponent when your general isn't even hexproof, and you aren't playing blue to counter their Unsummon, Murder or Fog. I also can't see the bestow ever being relevant since you'd then need to deal twice as much damage for a kill. I'd almost rather pay one more for Skyshroud Vampire to have the built in evasion. I don't want to be negative, but I don't think mono black is the right colors for a voltron general.
Anyway, it seems you've found most of the best black cards for this archetype. As for individual cards, I recommend Shred Memory in every black deck to tutor for Disturbed Burial or to counter your opponent's Disturbed Burial. I think Nihil Spellbomb also goes in any deck with black in it. I'm also a fan of Faerie Macabre. I think you get the idea of the power of black recursion in PDH and counters for it are good. I also like Brainspoil as a second copy of Gray Merchant of Asphodel.
No, I've never seen Squallmonger come up on any Gatherer searchs before. I'm not sure I'd want the next player to pay 6 to kill my general. Maybe if Ascended Lawmage is a huge problem for you I would consider it. Basically, if I'm playing any mono colored general it has to be very good if not broken, and I think there are better cards than Squallmonger.
Here's my take on your questions until ISB replys.
The signets are great in 2-3 color decks, but what are you going to cut for 10 mana ramp cards? I'd rather play Manalith, Darksteel Ingot and Cultivate to fix any mana problems. What happens when you draw a Boros Signet and really need black mana?
Tortured Existence is ok but it's no Phyrexian Reclamation. I do play it in my Grey Merchant deck since it adds devotion and turns any creature into brokenness, but othewise the other black recursion spells are better.
Transmute is just the best tutor available in pauper so any B/U deck plays all of them. Rend Flesh kills almost everything Murder does and doesn't cost double black which is why it is used in most 5 color pauper decks. Doom Blade misses a lot of the best creatures.
Yes. If you get to untap with the Packleader in play you will overwhelm the table with big creatures. Since he is a big threat though this rarely happens. I've rebuilt this deck with Eternal Witness as the commander, but she isn't working as well as I'd hoped so I might switch back. I don't think pump spells are that important in this build although Wildsize was in until the last few cuts. Elvish Aberration is probably the only new card that I would add to an updated version.
I guess Capsize is ok in single player if you can get to 12 mana and start bouncing their lands. You know that if you kill the Capsize target in response the spell fizzles which is my usual answer to the card. And in multi player games other players are more than happy to kill your creature and get rid of Capsize at the same time so it's never been a dominating card.
I find Augur of Skulls to be a kind of slow card. That one turn delay just gives everyone an opportunity to play their best spell or save an extra land to discard to it. If you could sac it at instant speed it would be awesome though. Okiba-Gang Shinobi is more what I'm looking for with the surprise value and bouncing a creature with a good ETB effect.
I'd be interested in other people's opinion of Explorer's Scope because it seemed weak to me for a long time too, but then I started playing it and found it better than expected. Small, incremental card advantage is probably better in PDH than most other formats, but I think it's proabbly good enough for real EDH too especially if you have Sensei's Divining Top working with it.
I'm usually not a fan of auras either but Crypt Rats with regeneration and lifelink is so good that I think they are worth it in this deck. The problem with playing more creatures is that they just die when I use the rat's ability. My main goal with the recursion is to avoid having to pay extra each time I want to play my general. I'm actually thinking of cutting some of the more expensive recursion spells if I find them clogging up my hand in play testing.
I've found that playing Crypt Rats as my general draws a lot of hate so I wanted an early blocker to help preserve my life total. One of the strongest decks in my local play group is Ascended Lawmage which the Fog of Gnats can block over and over. Stinkweed Imp is of course much better for this, but hexproof voltron generals are a pretty big problem. Abyssal Gatekeeper is also in there to help deal with this issue, and I might run Innocent Blood if necessary although it can't be recurred like the Gatekeeper. Unfortunately, unlike Fleshbag Marauder in regular EDH, the Gatekeeper needs to die to be effective which is one reason I play Viscera Seer as a sac outlet. I've been pretty impressed with the scry ability of the Seer as well when digging for answers and just to get a bit more value out of my creatures before I wrath the board with Crypt Rats.
I'm guess I'm not really convinced of the power of discard in multi player magic, but I could be wrong on that. I'll probably try to fit Liliana's Specter and Okiba-Gang Shinobi in first and see how I like them.
I really like the deterrent effect of Executioner's Capsule and Seal of Doom. I don't like playing very much 1 for 1 removal in multi player games, but these cards suggest to other players that they should attack someone else in ways that a Murder in your hand really can't. At least Ashes to Ashes is a 2 for 1, and exiling is a bonus so it's likely worth finding room for though.
I'm pretty sure Explorer's Scope is a great card. It's basically going to ramp you about 38% of the time in this deck. It takes the land you would have drawn off the top of your deck and at least lets you see the next card if it misses. Sometimes you'll have Darksteel Pendant in play at the same time and then it's even better!
1 Crypt Rats
Creatures [15]
1 Visera Seer
1 Basilica Screecher
1 Fog of Gnats
1 Abyssal Gatekeeper
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 Moriok Replica
1 Phyrexian Rager
1 Pilgrim's Eye
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Grave Digger
1 Liliana's Shade
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Twisted Abomination
General Synergy [13]
1 Spidersilk Net
1 Accorder's Shield
1 Slagwurm Armor
1 Vampiric Link
1 Cruel Feeding
1 Undying Evil
1 Eternal Thirst
1 Skeletal Grimace
1 Blessing of Leeches
1 Soul Channeling
1 Wail of the Nim
1 Mark of the Vampire
1 Strands of Undeath
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Seal of Doom
1 Oubliette
1 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Pestilence
1 Corrupt
Recursion [7]
1 Tortured Existence
1 Unearth
1 Exhume
1 Disturbed Burial
1 Death Denied
1 Grim Harvest
1 Reaping the Graves
Card Draw [6]
1 Altar's Reap
1 Sign in Blood
1 Casting of Bones
1 Read the Bones
1 Syphon Mind
1 Bitter Revelation
Acceleration [8]
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Fractured Powerstone
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Mind Stone
1 Manalith
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Pristine Talisman
1 Explorer's Scope
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Shred Memory
1 Darksteel Pendant
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Whispersilk Cloak
Land [38]
31 Swamp
1 Opal Palace
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Desert
1 Quicksand
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Barren Moor
1 Polluted Mire
Since the plan is to sweep the board over and over I really only want to use creatures with ETB effects or regeneration. This deck is intended for multi player games where I don't want to play 1 for 1 removal anyway, and with Crypt Rats as the general I don't feel that cards like Gangrenous Zombies and Evincar's Justice are necessary. Consume Spirit and Drain Life were hard to cut, but I think they're just too mana intensive for this deck.
I kind of go back and forth on how many mana rocks to play in PDH, but here I've decided to include them all. Crypt Rats is a great mana sink, especially when it has lifelink. I don't have a lot of use for colorless mana though which is why I'm not playing the 4 mana Sol Rings.
Finally, I've never played Exhume in this format before but it seems very good here. I have Bojuka Bog, Nihil Spellbomb, Shred Memory, Crypt Incursion, and Faerie Macabre to empty other graveyards, and whatever they reanimate will probably just die to the Crypt Rats that I brought back.
Any ideas for adds or cuts? Thanks
1 Garruk's Packleader
Creatures [27]
1 Garruk's Companion
1 Werebear
1 Invasive Species
1 Simian Grunts
1 Nantuko Vigilante
1 Elephant Ambush
1 Greater Mossdog
1 Wildheart Invoker
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Krosan Vorine
1 Jackalope Herd
1 Nylea's Dsciple
1 Mold Shambler
1 Giant Dustwasp
1 Silverglade Elemental
1 Sentinel Spider
1 Nessian Asp
1 Durkwood Baloth
1 Hooting Mandrills
1 Elvish Aberration
1 Havenwood Wurm
1 Wirewood Guardian
1 Maul Splicer
1 Tangle Golem
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Walker of the Grove
1 Search for Tomorrow
1 Wild Growth
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Rampant Growth
1 Into the North
1 Mind Stone
1 Nature's Lore
1 Edge of Autumn
1 Gaea's Touch
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Cultivate
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Skyshroud Claim
Removal [10]
1 Viridian Longbow
1 Emerald Charm
1 Prey Upon
1 Provoke
1 Lignify
1 Utopia Vow
1 Savage Punch
1 Time to Feed
1 Arachnus Web
1 Hunt the Weak
1 Reclaim
1 Moment's Peace
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Darksteel Pendant
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Explorer's Scope
1 Rancor
1 Night Soil
1 Evolution Charm
1 Vitality Charm
1 Seediling Charm
1 Broken Fall
1 Spidersilk Armor
Lands [35]
28 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Slippery Karst
1 Desert
1 Quicksand
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Khalni Garden
1 Land Grant
Added:
Removed:
Basically there are some small upgrades on creatures and ramp and a few more removal spells. Thanks for the past and future suggestions.
I'd say there are only around a hundred black/artifact cards worth playing in PDH, and you have to chose about 62 for this deck. I'd strongly recommend looking at Toonamiguy's Nighthawk thread and any other mono black deck list for card ideas. You're playing a commander that begs to be suited up and all you have are a Bonesplitter and a Scimitar? There are some really powerful common cards out there so there's no need to play something like a Minotaur Abomination or Contaminated Bond in this format. Good luck and I hope you enjoy PDH.
The only artifact general in my play group is Composite Golemn so Deglamer isn't that important for me. I feel the three creature that can kill artifacts or enchantments is enough. I also have Emerald Charm as an answer to Pestilence (and flyers). If someone has a good Sludge Strider deck I'd like to see the list though.
I agree that in the later game, Explorer's Scope is better than Darksteel Pendant since the first puts the land into play while the second costs a mana to just bottom the land. And unless I really needed one more mana to recast my general for the 4-5-6th time I'd probably always scry that land away even if the scope was in play just to dig for a nonland card. I don't think I'd ever bottom a creature though if I saw it with the pendant. One of Garruk's Packleader's strengths is that even if you don't get to draw a card you still play lots of beefy creatures to block and attack with.
I do include Explorer's Scope in almost every deck now. It just took me a while to realize it's power. I also run Darksteel Pendant in every deck too so I don't think that's the cut. I'd like to hear your argument against the pendant. It seems especially good in combination with the scope.
Anyway, it seems you've found most of the best black cards for this archetype. As for individual cards, I recommend Shred Memory in every black deck to tutor for Disturbed Burial or to counter your opponent's Disturbed Burial. I think Nihil Spellbomb also goes in any deck with black in it. I'm also a fan of Faerie Macabre. I think you get the idea of the power of black recursion in PDH and counters for it are good. I also like Brainspoil as a second copy of Gray Merchant of Asphodel.
I'd probably play Fleetfeather Sandals over Bladed Pinions and Murder or Victim of Night over Induce Despair. Mind Peel is uncommon. 34 lands is very low. I'd add Desert and Quicksand at least and possibly a couple more swamps.
The signets are great in 2-3 color decks, but what are you going to cut for 10 mana ramp cards? I'd rather play Manalith, Darksteel Ingot and Cultivate to fix any mana problems. What happens when you draw a Boros Signet and really need black mana?
Tortured Existence is ok but it's no Phyrexian Reclamation. I do play it in my Grey Merchant deck since it adds devotion and turns any creature into brokenness, but othewise the other black recursion spells are better.
Transmute is just the best tutor available in pauper so any B/U deck plays all of them. Rend Flesh kills almost everything Murder does and doesn't cost double black which is why it is used in most 5 color pauper decks. Doom Blade misses a lot of the best creatures.