I guess that's Grape mostly giving up and going anti-spew mode.
Pretty sure if he was actually a villager here he'd have responded to me trying to reach out and get there on him in some way, but this isn't that, to say the least.
There's levels involved here regarding Osie, in that like.
Grape obviously isn't..trying that hard to get us to lynch Osie over him (and frankly, vice versa), and that makes more sense as w/w where the wind has kind of been taken out of their sails by us correctly identifying it as w/w when they tried to distance.
My team wants Osie's flip because they aren't as sure on him as they are Grapefruit, as weird as that might seem. Like, they want to know if this is w/w or w/v, because the remaining wolves change a bit depending which universe we are in.
I'm personally kind of ambivalent, because I don't really expect to still be alive tomorrow to use that information.
There's still two pr's out there somewhere, if we have a vig, just shoot whichever of Osie/Grape we don't lynch. If there's an info role, do your thing I guess. ~levels~ if Grape/Osie makes the kill or if they risk having the third member of team do it I guess, as I'd almost bet money that Silver put a tracker in this setup over any other kind of info role. Maybe masons? Whatever, doesn't matter. Point is like, we should be able to lock this game down pretty easy.
Osie being a villager is the world where it might not be as easy as it seems, but I think there's pretty much no universe where Grape is a villager after his recent posts here.
My team and I have talked about The Worst a fair bit, and it's a little mixed. We struggle to believe that he'd be so....blatant at pushing the counterwagon to his partner when his partner is still obviously going to die either today or tomorrow. He's probably not a wolf with Grape, and almost certainly not a wolf with Osie, so he's just...probably a villager unless we're in v/v wagon world, which seems frankly impossible.
@Tammy I think I didn't get engaged by catching Osie because his accusation of OMGUS was so bald. Killed any joy of the hunt.
He's just so clearly wolfy that even though everyone and their brother thinks I'm scum I still feel like we're winning because Osie is sitting there on a silver platter.
Man.
This is all you say/respond to when coming back to thread?
Yup.
Fair enough.
On a scale of 1-10, how dead am I tonight after you guys got the bodyguard dead N1?
I'm around for a bit if you want to chat. I'm sure you haven't really read much of D2, but I do think poking at my posts a bit will get you generally familiar with what's going on (and help you get a read on me, since I was MIA d1 due to medical stuff).
Voxx didn't you say you were going to push Titus today?
ISO my posts in D2 if you want a decentish summary of gamestate.
I started on Titus, then Grape/Osie had some super ????? interactions that felt fake and over the top, and I think we're at Grape + Osie + one of Titus/Tubba, leaning towards Tubba.
I'd like to see some work out of you, but I don't.... think? You're with Grape, who I'm pretty locked in on as a wolf here.
(and if Osie is actually somehow town they're dead weight + WILL be lynched to lose the game. I can't see a reason to keep that around)
Says the player who openly refuses to do work in thread.
It's players like you that ruin the health of forums because nobody joins games with them in it.
Yikes.
I get it, it's frustrating because like. Either you're a villager and he's pushing you with the kind of posts he is, or you're a wolf, and he's correct for what seems like no reason, but let's avoid this kind of toxicity. It's been a pretty good game in that regard and let's try to keep it that way, yeah?
@Tammy I think I didn't get engaged by catching Osie because his accusation of OMGUS was so bald. Killed any joy of the hunt.
He's just so clearly wolfy that even though everyone and their brother thinks I'm scum I still feel like we're winning because Osie is sitting there on a silver platter.
Man.
This is all you say/respond to when coming back to thread?
I'll look at that tomorrow. I'm probably not going to make it through the ossie I was planning to get through. Headed to bed soon, and I got distracted.
I did make it through grape, and eh I'm not feeling the super scum you are. Today is super disengaged and his response to you last night was very wooden and I didn't like his end of day yesterday, but I'm nowhere near the level of confidence you have that he'll flip scum. Scum team doesn't have him as a strong scumread either except by poe.
There's also concern about the gamestate right now and a concern that this isn't a gamestate that is due to scum just giving up. Just a general observation.
Oh Grape - If you read ossie as strongly scum as you do, why isn't that pulling you into the game some?
Umm what?
Dammit I had a bet with my team you were going to call it a scum slip
That should say my team.
If it helps, my team wanted me to vote you as (mostly) a joke in response to that!
I'll be around a bit tonight, couple things I want to respond to/talk about.
The Titus read is the way she tried to tie me to Grape as a partner, then goaded me into voting Grape with her (this was at start of day when I came in blazing right at Titus).
She's not a town read independently, and that felt an awful lot like trying to tie me to someone she knows is a wolf.
Not a lock, but not something I'm willing to hard clear her for, etc.
I think it's most likely to just be Grape/Osie/Tubba, but there's some small things that make me squint at that, too.
Hey Tammy! I'd appreciate if you could give the Osie/Grape stuff from earlier this day a closer look, from Osie's side especially.
As well as look at my posts a bit closer regarding his mindset regarding it.
I'm pretty dialed in on Grape being a wolf, as is my entire team, so we've been combing through thread looking for partners, as we're like at 97%+ certainty on that read. (More specifically, they're at 90%ish, and I'm at pretty much 100%)
Starting from that baseline, like.
I'm town.
We think you are solidly town.
We think SC is very likely to be town, but there's some team tinfoil if it turns out to be Osie is town and this isn't w/w. I think they're being dumb and she's just town though, but it's worth considering late game if things don't quite fit and this is w/v.
Empoof is probably not a third in Grape/Osie w/w worlds, and we don't really think he's a wolf with Grape regardless. There is also Ara + her team's read on him which we take somewhat seriously given the respect we have for Lissa and Visor as players, and think he's probably just town here and would never really reconsider that until F3.
We're /pretty/ sure that Marko is not w/w with Grape, and liked some of his D1 posts independently of that, but it's not as strong of a town read as the previous three.
Trob and TW both voted/pushed Grape, and we spent some time combing over the early D1 interactions and decided they were probably just a little bit too weird to be w/w. I think the slot is pretty clear if Grape/Osie is w/w, but there's some hesitation if it turns out to be w/v - but given I don't think it is w/v, its not where I'm all that interested in looking right now, and probably just is town regardless.
That leaves Grape, Osie, Tubba, and Titus.
My team kind of just wants to slap a 'solved' stamp on the game and power lynch them in that order, and are rolling their eyes at me for still putting this much effort into things, but given you're citing unalignments in this cluster that would mean there'd have to be wolves outside it, I want you to look back at the interactions and my earlier posts and evaluate given that if you could.
I really think that Grape/osie crossvote and interaction is one of the fakest things I've ever seen in a mafia game. Just reeks of scum theater, and a lot of Osie's posts felt like scum complaining, and his mindset just wasn't meshing with the gamestate. He was complaining about the game playing 'sheep the lurkers', when we were both voting for Grapefruit along with him at the time, and the rest of my scum team minus him was his exact same scum team PoE. It just didn't/doesn't feel like he was critically thinking about the game, and it's a lot more likely to come from a wolf.
I acknowledge it's possible I can be conf-biasing a tunnel into the interaction, and want more sets of reasonable eyes (like, oh, you and your whole team) to spend some time on it and look at it from the perspective of Grape very likely wolf, and see what they think about Osie given that.
Tubba and Titus both fit with those two as a team relatively well, and aren't town reads. My team thinks it's more likely to be Tubba, and I /guess/ I agree, but Titus pushing Grape but shielding Osie has me squinting pretty aggressively if that turns out to be w/w.
But yeah, like. This is not a mechanical claim or anything, I think it's pretty clear I'm VT - but my team and I sunk a ton of time into Grape and his ISO and read through other games to meta dive a bit, and he's just never a villager here, so we used that read to form the rest of our reads.
Empoof is understandably not engaged in the game with RL things.
SC is v/la.
Marko hasn't posted at all on D2.
Osie is V/LA.
Tubba is V/LA and only made 1-2 posts on D2.
Grapefruit is... to be charitable let's just call it very disengaged. (Or a wolf in anti-spew mode).
TW and Titus are 'here', but getting anything resembling depth/detail out of them is like pulling teeth.
I guess I can try and engage with Titus about why I think Osie/Grape are w/w later today, but feels an awful lot like we're just in an echo-chambery holding pattern right now, and will be tomorrow too. I see very few worlds where we don't lynch one of Osie/Grape today, and the other tomorrow.
And I mean...I think they're both wolves so I'm functionally okay with that, just doesn't feel like many people are all that engaged with the game right now.
I understand maybe this is hypocritical given how little I was into the game on D1, but my eyeballs felt like they were melting out of my skull, so there's a reason for that heh.
Like, I just went through your ISO and ctrl+f'd my name.
You have no progression on me at all. You've never talked about a read on me, but yet you slot me in as reasonably town. Why?
I was the driving force behind a mislynch on D1. I've been tunneling you today. You know I'm a damn good and charismatic wolf who is capable of winning through world building, yet I'm like...linking you to the person you're voting, and this isn't ringing any alarms for you?
I just don't think it's a real progression, I don't think your reads list in general is a real reads list. You've talked about or explained under half your reads.
If you are town here, I need to get there on you dude. We mislynched D1. We lost a PR N1. If you're town, I feel like you're almost certainly going to be the lynch today, and I just... need more signs of life from you. Osie's going to die at some point, be it today or tomorrow, yes, yes, but like...
Throw me a bone here. Talk about why you have me as town, and why you aren't paranoid that I'm basically open wolfing and driving mislynches into the ground D1 and D2 here.
Talk to me about Osie more in depth, and who you think fits as partners of his and why?
I do think you're likely a wolf here, and probably a wolf with the rest of your team squarely in the PoE, and that's why you have so little WIM. But if this isn't the case, if you're actually town, I'm willing to listen, I'm willing to re-evaluate, but I need to see something from you, anything, that looks like you have a town spark in you.
I do acknowledge it's frustrating, and like...sorry about the wolf rand I guess?
But this is just another example of why I think you're a wolf, I've been tunneling you with certainty all day, calling you w/w with the person you're voting, and you're... kind of just frustrated at me being certain, instead of actively trying to figure out my alignment, calling me a wolf, etc.
This just doesn't at all feel like how you'd be playing this as town in this spot, disengaged or not.
Like. I made 20-something posts on D1, and they were all pushing Ara, who flips town.
I come into today, and gun for your head all day, calling you w/w with the person you're voting, but vote you over him.
Why is there no paranoia? You were in Mistborn with me, where I wrecked the ***** out of you as a wolf. Where is the passion, the fire? Like almost everyone you think is scum is voting you, yet you feel like you're dead inside, and going through the motions.
I just can't see this coming from you as town given all of above. You aren't trying to solve, you aren't trying to galvanize people or convince them in any way, you aren't bothered remotely at all of your scum reads piling onto you. Your mindset and reactions just don't match the gamestate at all.
It feels like you've accepted you're going down, and are in some weird mixture of trying to distance from partners (I bet both of your partners are in your scum reads), and avoiding spew by shutting down any kind of complex interaction.
I'm sorry if I'm tilting or upsetting you here, I've tried to work with you and get you to give me something and you just... haven't.
If it helps, consider it respect for your town game, that I'm so sure you're a wolf because I don't see any glimpse of your usual ability on display here.
Pretty sure if he was actually a villager here he'd have responded to me trying to reach out and get there on him in some way, but this isn't that, to say the least.
There's levels involved here regarding Osie, in that like.
Grape obviously isn't..trying that hard to get us to lynch Osie over him (and frankly, vice versa), and that makes more sense as w/w where the wind has kind of been taken out of their sails by us correctly identifying it as w/w when they tried to distance.
My team wants Osie's flip because they aren't as sure on him as they are Grapefruit, as weird as that might seem. Like, they want to know if this is w/w or w/v, because the remaining wolves change a bit depending which universe we are in.
I'm personally kind of ambivalent, because I don't really expect to still be alive tomorrow to use that information.
There's still two pr's out there somewhere, if we have a vig, just shoot whichever of Osie/Grape we don't lynch. If there's an info role, do your thing I guess. ~levels~ if Grape/Osie makes the kill or if they risk having the third member of team do it I guess, as I'd almost bet money that Silver put a tracker in this setup over any other kind of info role. Maybe masons? Whatever, doesn't matter. Point is like, we should be able to lock this game down pretty easy.
Osie being a villager is the world where it might not be as easy as it seems, but I think there's pretty much no universe where Grape is a villager after his recent posts here.
My team and I have talked about The Worst a fair bit, and it's a little mixed. We struggle to believe that he'd be so....blatant at pushing the counterwagon to his partner when his partner is still obviously going to die either today or tomorrow. He's probably not a wolf with Grape, and almost certainly not a wolf with Osie, so he's just...probably a villager unless we're in v/v wagon world, which seems frankly impossible.
Fair enough.
On a scale of 1-10, how dead am I tonight after you guys got the bodyguard dead N1?
ISO my posts in D2 if you want a decentish summary of gamestate.
I started on Titus, then Grape/Osie had some super ????? interactions that felt fake and over the top, and I think we're at Grape + Osie + one of Titus/Tubba, leaning towards Tubba.
I'd like to see some work out of you, but I don't.... think? You're with Grape, who I'm pretty locked in on as a wolf here.
https://imgur.com/ebvVnNY
Yikes.
I get it, it's frustrating because like. Either you're a villager and he's pushing you with the kind of posts he is, or you're a wolf, and he's correct for what seems like no reason, but let's avoid this kind of toxicity. It's been a pretty good game in that regard and let's try to keep it that way, yeah?
Man.
This is all you say/respond to when coming back to thread?
If it helps, my team wanted me to vote you as (mostly) a joke in response to that!
I'll be around a bit tonight, couple things I want to respond to/talk about.
She's not a town read independently, and that felt an awful lot like trying to tie me to someone she knows is a wolf.
Not a lock, but not something I'm willing to hard clear her for, etc.
I think it's most likely to just be Grape/Osie/Tubba, but there's some small things that make me squint at that, too.
As well as look at my posts a bit closer regarding his mindset regarding it.
I'm pretty dialed in on Grape being a wolf, as is my entire team, so we've been combing through thread looking for partners, as we're like at 97%+ certainty on that read. (More specifically, they're at 90%ish, and I'm at pretty much 100%)
Starting from that baseline, like.
I'm town.
We think you are solidly town.
We think SC is very likely to be town, but there's some team tinfoil if it turns out to be Osie is town and this isn't w/w. I think they're being dumb and she's just town though, but it's worth considering late game if things don't quite fit and this is w/v.
Empoof is probably not a third in Grape/Osie w/w worlds, and we don't really think he's a wolf with Grape regardless. There is also Ara + her team's read on him which we take somewhat seriously given the respect we have for Lissa and Visor as players, and think he's probably just town here and would never really reconsider that until F3.
We're /pretty/ sure that Marko is not w/w with Grape, and liked some of his D1 posts independently of that, but it's not as strong of a town read as the previous three.
Trob and TW both voted/pushed Grape, and we spent some time combing over the early D1 interactions and decided they were probably just a little bit too weird to be w/w. I think the slot is pretty clear if Grape/Osie is w/w, but there's some hesitation if it turns out to be w/v - but given I don't think it is w/v, its not where I'm all that interested in looking right now, and probably just is town regardless.
That leaves Grape, Osie, Tubba, and Titus.
My team kind of just wants to slap a 'solved' stamp on the game and power lynch them in that order, and are rolling their eyes at me for still putting this much effort into things, but given you're citing unalignments in this cluster that would mean there'd have to be wolves outside it, I want you to look back at the interactions and my earlier posts and evaluate given that if you could.
I really think that Grape/osie crossvote and interaction is one of the fakest things I've ever seen in a mafia game. Just reeks of scum theater, and a lot of Osie's posts felt like scum complaining, and his mindset just wasn't meshing with the gamestate. He was complaining about the game playing 'sheep the lurkers', when we were both voting for Grapefruit along with him at the time, and the rest of my scum team minus him was his exact same scum team PoE. It just didn't/doesn't feel like he was critically thinking about the game, and it's a lot more likely to come from a wolf.
I acknowledge it's possible I can be conf-biasing a tunnel into the interaction, and want more sets of reasonable eyes (like, oh, you and your whole team) to spend some time on it and look at it from the perspective of Grape very likely wolf, and see what they think about Osie given that.
Tubba and Titus both fit with those two as a team relatively well, and aren't town reads. My team thinks it's more likely to be Tubba, and I /guess/ I agree, but Titus pushing Grape but shielding Osie has me squinting pretty aggressively if that turns out to be w/w.
But yeah, like. This is not a mechanical claim or anything, I think it's pretty clear I'm VT - but my team and I sunk a ton of time into Grape and his ISO and read through other games to meta dive a bit, and he's just never a villager here, so we used that read to form the rest of our reads.
Tammy is busy/not fully caught up.
Empoof is understandably not engaged in the game with RL things.
SC is v/la.
Marko hasn't posted at all on D2.
Osie is V/LA.
Tubba is V/LA and only made 1-2 posts on D2.
Grapefruit is... to be charitable let's just call it very disengaged. (Or a wolf in anti-spew mode).
TW and Titus are 'here', but getting anything resembling depth/detail out of them is like pulling teeth.
I guess I can try and engage with Titus about why I think Osie/Grape are w/w later today, but feels an awful lot like we're just in an echo-chambery holding pattern right now, and will be tomorrow too. I see very few worlds where we don't lynch one of Osie/Grape today, and the other tomorrow.
And I mean...I think they're both wolves so I'm functionally okay with that, just doesn't feel like many people are all that engaged with the game right now.
I understand maybe this is hypocritical given how little I was into the game on D1, but my eyeballs felt like they were melting out of my skull, so there's a reason for that heh.
You have no progression on me at all. You've never talked about a read on me, but yet you slot me in as reasonably town. Why?
I was the driving force behind a mislynch on D1. I've been tunneling you today. You know I'm a damn good and charismatic wolf who is capable of winning through world building, yet I'm like...linking you to the person you're voting, and this isn't ringing any alarms for you?
I just don't think it's a real progression, I don't think your reads list in general is a real reads list. You've talked about or explained under half your reads.
If you are town here, I need to get there on you dude. We mislynched D1. We lost a PR N1. If you're town, I feel like you're almost certainly going to be the lynch today, and I just... need more signs of life from you. Osie's going to die at some point, be it today or tomorrow, yes, yes, but like...
Throw me a bone here. Talk about why you have me as town, and why you aren't paranoid that I'm basically open wolfing and driving mislynches into the ground D1 and D2 here.
Talk to me about Osie more in depth, and who you think fits as partners of his and why?
I do think you're likely a wolf here, and probably a wolf with the rest of your team squarely in the PoE, and that's why you have so little WIM. But if this isn't the case, if you're actually town, I'm willing to listen, I'm willing to re-evaluate, but I need to see something from you, anything, that looks like you have a town spark in you.
You're better than your play this game.
But this is just another example of why I think you're a wolf, I've been tunneling you with certainty all day, calling you w/w with the person you're voting, and you're... kind of just frustrated at me being certain, instead of actively trying to figure out my alignment, calling me a wolf, etc.
This just doesn't at all feel like how you'd be playing this as town in this spot, disengaged or not.
Like. I made 20-something posts on D1, and they were all pushing Ara, who flips town.
I come into today, and gun for your head all day, calling you w/w with the person you're voting, but vote you over him.
Why is there no paranoia? You were in Mistborn with me, where I wrecked the ***** out of you as a wolf. Where is the passion, the fire? Like almost everyone you think is scum is voting you, yet you feel like you're dead inside, and going through the motions.
I just can't see this coming from you as town given all of above. You aren't trying to solve, you aren't trying to galvanize people or convince them in any way, you aren't bothered remotely at all of your scum reads piling onto you. Your mindset and reactions just don't match the gamestate at all.
It feels like you've accepted you're going down, and are in some weird mixture of trying to distance from partners (I bet both of your partners are in your scum reads), and avoiding spew by shutting down any kind of complex interaction.
I'm sorry if I'm tilting or upsetting you here, I've tried to work with you and get you to give me something and you just... haven't.
If it helps, consider it respect for your town game, that I'm so sure you're a wolf because I don't see any glimpse of your usual ability on display here.