I quit for a while after Born of The Gods came out, and just started again after M15 was released, mainly due to other hobbies. I was very upset to see that V3 was no longer viable. I don't play as much as I used to, but I think thats due to other reasons than the client. I will say that limited queues take wayyyyyyyy longer to fire than the used to in V3, user numbers have to be significantly down. It would be interesting to see data on any of that.
Here's what I've been working on for W devotion. The deck is different than the majority of lists on this thread, synergistic as hell, very aggressive, and a lot of fun to play.
Yes indeed, Path of Bravery over Spear of Heliod. The synergy with Archangel is awesome, basically turns on haste for her +1 +1 ability. You can also have multiples which trigger separately and stack, and given the mass amount of tokens this deck generates, its nothing to swing with a bunch of vigilant tokens every turn just for the life gain and the pump effect. The reduction in devotion is ok, since so many of our creatures are at least WW. One of the best parts of this deck is it can just straight up ignore a lot of damage it incurs due to the passive life gain it generates via Path and Archangel.
Vanguard of Brimaz: this is the WW 2 drop white devotion has been waiting for to team with Precinct Captain. The stats aren't that impressive, but vigilance isn't terrible, and in this list its a 3/3 by turn 3 or 4 a lot of the time anyway. I've been really happy with him so far, since I've put him in here Nykthos gets online way faster.
4x Heliod: He gets online quick here, Nykthos can help us go nuts with tokens after our hand is out, and the vigilance bonus is really huge with the Paths out. I side a copy out vs. aggro decks.
Mizzium Mortars: Its really hard to run a white deck right now without answers to Stormbreath and Blood Baron maindeck. Splashing blue is cute, but DT sphere and AZ charm still don't answer either of these. Celestial Flare is an option, but mortars is just much more reliable.
Aurelia: I'm torn on these 2 slots. A lot of time she gets sided out for Elspeth and Assemble (esp. vs. Mono B), but the synergy with Path, Brimaz, and Archangel, as well as this decks aggression fits her perfectly. The earliest she comes down is turn 5 even with Nykthos, whereas Elspeth or even Angel of Serenity could come down earlier if we have an early nut draw. Dunno, she might get changed to Elspeths eventually.
Manabase: 11 red sources, 25 land...... This deck doesn't really mind running a tad land heavy because we have a mana sink in Heliod, and we need to reliably hit land drops in case we don't get Nykthos or they nuke all our early devotion triggers. I've been testing variants of this deck for a while now, even before BNG, and I feel that running mortars, aurelia and the red cards in our SB (including chained) that the number of red sources and mountains, are pretty solid. The few times I do have mana problems its due to multiples of Nykthos early, not too few W sources, or missing a R for mortars.
SB: Mostly self explanatory, and mostly for control. Purphoros is for control primarily to set of the ETB trigger. Fiendslayer is for Burn/aggro. Chained is to help deal with anything we cant mortars, Master of Waves,Polukranos, etc. DD isn't too much of an issue, since we usually have tokens to sac if we need to. Another option is Banisher Priest (which took up Brimaz's slots MD pre-BNG) but she eats removal fairly rapidly in most matchups. Last Breath and Celestial Flare may have a place here too.
If you're banking on making it to 7 mana without ramp vs. Mono B or UW control, you're generally going to be so far behind it will be too late. Also, not to go the dies to removal route but: Thoughtseize, Lifebane Zombie, Chained to the Rocks, Selesnya Charm, Detention Sphere, and even Gild. There's more options to deal with her now than pre-Theros.
I don't agree that it's "too late" by then, but I see your point. It entirely depends on what you've done leading up to that point, and hopefully it hasn't been play 7 lands and resolve Serenity.
I did not mention Chained to the Rocks or Selesnya Charm specifically because those aren't in the Big Two - MonoBlack / U/W Control, but they certainly are valid answers. Gild is a good point, and might see some sideboard play.
Why not Elspeth and Serenity perhaps? I know a question like that is obviously *very* list dependent, but, I'm only trying to stress us being open to tech. If we're not open to new tech, the chances are we won't be playing with new tech.
If you're playing against a capable Mono B or UW pilot, turn 7 is indeed usually too late. They're going to bury you in real card advantage, when all you're gaining is pseudo card advantage. If you can get her out even a single turn earlier the difference is massive, especially if you have a relatively aggressive deck that they're forced to constantly interact with.
The deck has been popping up here and there since Theros came out http://www.mtgo-stats.com/decks/93747 Brad Nelson won some tournaments with it back in October or so. It puts up ok results in DEs on MTGO, I've been running it for the past few weeks, 2 3-1s, 1 4-0, in 5 tournaments. I think its way better than Domri Naya decks, IMO.
What makes the deck good is the removal it runs main. You want 4 AOTG, 4 Chained, and 4 Mortars MD mandatory. I run 3 Selesnya Charms as well. 4 Smiters, and 4 dragons are common, as well as 3x Xenagos, 2x Elspeth, and a chandra or two. The other creatures and slots (usually 4 drops, Polukranos, or Advent of the Wurm) you can mess with.
The deck is very very good against the 3 top decks (Mono B, UW Control,and Mono U). It has a tough time dealing with creature-light burn decks, and can get blown out by R/W devotion if it doesn't draw the right removal in time.
After BNG comes out Brimaz or the courser might actually be better options for the deck than the 4 drops that are currently run. Brimaz has great synergy with Xenagos, and the courser is arguably a better CA engine than Chandra while providing incidental lifegain, which is something the deck could really use.
If she makes it, I would actually see it happening more in a viable W devotion build if it surfaces. But then you're probably choosing between AoS and Elspeth, and I think Elspeth is the obvious choice there most likely. I wouldn't rule it out completely.
If you're banking on making it to 7 mana without ramp vs. Mono B or UW control, you're generally going to be so far behind it will be too late. Also, not to go the dies to removal route but: Thoughtseize, Lifebane Zombie, Chained to the Rocks, Selesnya Charm, Detention Sphere, and even Gild. There's more options to deal with her now than pre-Theros.
I realize this is off-topic, but isn't Evangel of Heliod strictly better in the context of Purphoros/tokenshock deck?
Scion would be a great card and not 0,05 tix if GW would not be an unplayable deck thanks to Sin Collector, Thoughtseize and Lifebane Zombie.
Evangel of Heliod costs one more and has a much smaller body.
At worst you're paying 6 mana for a 1/3 and two 1/1 Soldiers with Evangel.
At worst you're paying 5 mana for a 4/4 and two 1/1 flyers with Scion.
In the context of the deck Evangel may have more upside but Scion is on average is going to give you a much better return on your mana investment.
Agreed on all points.
GW is gaining a bit of steam on MTGO. Lifebane Zombie, yeah that sucks, but Sin Collector? Go ahead. And the thoughtseize argument applies to all deck. People have been harping on the "GW is horrible because of Lifebane Zombie" thing since pre-Theros and its just not the case. A GW deck can outrace Mono-B the vast majority of the time, as long as its non-creature answers don't get seized out, but thats usually the case in any decks' Mono B matchup really. Its problems with R/W devotion/control/Mono U are generally worse than with B.
A G/W isn't going to be top tier, but any W-based deck using Brimaz or devotion might look into Scion as a 5 drop, and any G/W deck using Brimaz and VoR should definitely look into Scion,so even if the card bumps up to .3 or .4 tix, you could make some tickets off it.
I play almost entirely on MTGO now, but while travelling for work in Augusta, Maine I did manage to trade a very short-sighted LGS owner my 4x Bonfire of the Damned for his 4x Windswept Heath straight up.
As someone who's been high on the rogue decks containing ATL/Purphoros/Elspeth bandwagon since Theros, this thing looked interesting and I started playing around with it. Archangel is terrible though, completely win-more and 75% of the time she eats a Chained/Mortars/Downfall/Doomblade etc without impacting the board. I looked for a better 5 drop that could also count for WW........Scion of Vitu-Ghazi.
Holy crap is this card good right now.
I know this has been mentioned as a sleeper on and off since it came out, but given the fact that this card is absolutely amazing against Mono B, I've seen it pop up a bit more in the GW VoR builds that are becoming more frequent, and the potential for a legitimate W devotion deck to pop up after Brimaz comes out, it might be worth looking into. Its .05 right now.
I'm going to run this in some DEs this week and see how it does. The list absolutely bricks Mono B hard, and is very good against UW, especially after you ditch the dead removal cards after SB.
I can't speak for block, but Standard is highly competitive on MTGO. The meta is fairly well established and reported daily (mtgo-stats.com) so you can take a well-positioned rogue deck in and do well occasionally. Which is basically all I ever do.
Brimaz is going to be nuts in this build after BNG as well.
Biggest problem with this deck so far is the manabase, but not sure how I can (or if I even should) tweak it to make it more stable. The deck doesn't necessarily need to drop a Reckoner on turn 3 though and has an incredible lategame, so its not the end of the world if you stumble T3 or 4.
A similar list running Archangel instead of Scion went 3-1 in a daily a few days ago, I think that Scion is way better here though. Archangel is win-more, whereas Scion can save your butt if you're behind, is phenomenal vs. Mono B, and is great with Purphoros. It does all of this even if it eats removal the turn it comes out.
Coming from someone who plays a lot of standard competitively, as well as who drafts a lot... if you play constructed and think the outcome of your tournament has nothing to do with the crapshoot of the archetypes you get paired against, you're just lying to yourself.
I love standard because I can tweak or brew a deck meticulously to prepare against an established meta. The tweaks you make, the SB choices you make, are really what stands out. I feel that just copying a netdeck and a SB guide, you learn nothing. The worst players in MTG are generally strict constructed players probably for this reason. The best players I have ever met excel at limited as well as constructed.
I love drafting, because it encompasses all skills of MTG in one format. I am better at drafting, but I tend to play standard a bit more due to the better payouts. (I only play on MTGO).
As the OP probably realizes by now combo means something very specific in Magic. Have him pilot Eggs or Storm, and he'll get the picture.
The biggest thing the OP can learn if he wants to be competitive in standard, is not to latch onto a two color combination regardless of the meta, and hope cards get printed to make it good, or he can figure out how to tune it to make it good. The meta is what it is at a given time, and it fluctuates and changes as people respond to the top decks. Look at the top archetypes, and adopt, brew, or tweak a deck that preys on those decks. You need to be flexible in standard and in brewing in general, locking onto a color pair isn't flexible.
And can WE PLEASE stop giving cute titles to threads or decklists? I swear people spend more time thinking of a cute stupid name for their deck than they actually spend tuning it.
If anything, there are too many underpowered cards seeing play in Standard as it is. In a format where Judge's Familiar is considered to be an acceptable 1-drop, it's not a good sign for the cards mentioned in this thread that even they see no play.
Its not that they're underpowered, its that many of the top decks right now are very synergistic, especially since devotion was introduced. Judge's familiar is crud in a vacuum, but in certain Mono U or Mono W builds, he can be exactly what is needed at the 1 slot. By the same token, Nightveil Specter is a solid card, but he isn't necessarily that efficient stats-wise for 3 cmc, and saw zero play before Theros.
Right now, you can't just jam every powerful card in a deck and win in standard, like last season with Jund.
Comments are below.
4x Precinct Captain
3x Vanguard of Brimaz
4x Boros Reckoner
3x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x Heliod, God of the Sun
4x Archangel of Thune
2x Aurelia, the Warleader
4x Path of Bravery
3x Mizzium Mortars
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Temple of Triumph
3x Mountain
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
10x Plains
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x Fiendslayer Paladin
2x Keening Apparition
2x Glare of Heresy
2x Boros Charm
2x Chained to the Rocks
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Purphoros, God of the Forge
Comments:
Yes indeed, Path of Bravery over Spear of Heliod. The synergy with Archangel is awesome, basically turns on haste for her +1 +1 ability. You can also have multiples which trigger separately and stack, and given the mass amount of tokens this deck generates, its nothing to swing with a bunch of vigilant tokens every turn just for the life gain and the pump effect. The reduction in devotion is ok, since so many of our creatures are at least WW. One of the best parts of this deck is it can just straight up ignore a lot of damage it incurs due to the passive life gain it generates via Path and Archangel.
Vanguard of Brimaz: this is the WW 2 drop white devotion has been waiting for to team with Precinct Captain. The stats aren't that impressive, but vigilance isn't terrible, and in this list its a 3/3 by turn 3 or 4 a lot of the time anyway. I've been really happy with him so far, since I've put him in here Nykthos gets online way faster.
4x Heliod: He gets online quick here, Nykthos can help us go nuts with tokens after our hand is out, and the vigilance bonus is really huge with the Paths out. I side a copy out vs. aggro decks.
Mizzium Mortars: Its really hard to run a white deck right now without answers to Stormbreath and Blood Baron maindeck. Splashing blue is cute, but DT sphere and AZ charm still don't answer either of these. Celestial Flare is an option, but mortars is just much more reliable.
Aurelia: I'm torn on these 2 slots. A lot of time she gets sided out for Elspeth and Assemble (esp. vs. Mono B), but the synergy with Path, Brimaz, and Archangel, as well as this decks aggression fits her perfectly. The earliest she comes down is turn 5 even with Nykthos, whereas Elspeth or even Angel of Serenity could come down earlier if we have an early nut draw. Dunno, she might get changed to Elspeths eventually.
Manabase: 11 red sources, 25 land...... This deck doesn't really mind running a tad land heavy because we have a mana sink in Heliod, and we need to reliably hit land drops in case we don't get Nykthos or they nuke all our early devotion triggers. I've been testing variants of this deck for a while now, even before BNG, and I feel that running mortars, aurelia and the red cards in our SB (including chained) that the number of red sources and mountains, are pretty solid. The few times I do have mana problems its due to multiples of Nykthos early, not too few W sources, or missing a R for mortars.
SB: Mostly self explanatory, and mostly for control. Purphoros is for control primarily to set of the ETB trigger. Fiendslayer is for Burn/aggro. Chained is to help deal with anything we cant mortars, Master of Waves,Polukranos, etc. DD isn't too much of an issue, since we usually have tokens to sac if we need to. Another option is Banisher Priest (which took up Brimaz's slots MD pre-BNG) but she eats removal fairly rapidly in most matchups. Last Breath and Celestial Flare may have a place here too.
If you're playing against a capable Mono B or UW pilot, turn 7 is indeed usually too late. They're going to bury you in real card advantage, when all you're gaining is pseudo card advantage. If you can get her out even a single turn earlier the difference is massive, especially if you have a relatively aggressive deck that they're forced to constantly interact with.
What makes the deck good is the removal it runs main. You want 4 AOTG, 4 Chained, and 4 Mortars MD mandatory. I run 3 Selesnya Charms as well. 4 Smiters, and 4 dragons are common, as well as 3x Xenagos, 2x Elspeth, and a chandra or two. The other creatures and slots (usually 4 drops, Polukranos, or Advent of the Wurm) you can mess with.
The deck is very very good against the 3 top decks (Mono B, UW Control,and Mono U). It has a tough time dealing with creature-light burn decks, and can get blown out by R/W devotion if it doesn't draw the right removal in time.
After BNG comes out Brimaz or the courser might actually be better options for the deck than the 4 drops that are currently run. Brimaz has great synergy with Xenagos, and the courser is arguably a better CA engine than Chandra while providing incidental lifegain, which is something the deck could really use.
If you're banking on making it to 7 mana without ramp vs. Mono B or UW control, you're generally going to be so far behind it will be too late. Also, not to go the dies to removal route but: Thoughtseize, Lifebane Zombie, Chained to the Rocks, Selesnya Charm, Detention Sphere, and even Gild. There's more options to deal with her now than pre-Theros.
Does anyone think the GW god is playable? As someone who loves fetching land more than most, even I think its just not happening.
Agreed on all points.
GW is gaining a bit of steam on MTGO. Lifebane Zombie, yeah that sucks, but Sin Collector? Go ahead. And the thoughtseize argument applies to all deck. People have been harping on the "GW is horrible because of Lifebane Zombie" thing since pre-Theros and its just not the case. A GW deck can outrace Mono-B the vast majority of the time, as long as its non-creature answers don't get seized out, but thats usually the case in any decks' Mono B matchup really. Its problems with R/W devotion/control/Mono U are generally worse than with B.
A G/W isn't going to be top tier, but any W-based deck using Brimaz or devotion might look into Scion as a 5 drop, and any G/W deck using Brimaz and VoR should definitely look into Scion,so even if the card bumps up to .3 or .4 tix, you could make some tickets off it.
As someone who's been high on the rogue decks containing ATL/Purphoros/Elspeth bandwagon since Theros, this thing looked interesting and I started playing around with it. Archangel is terrible though, completely win-more and 75% of the time she eats a Chained/Mortars/Downfall/Doomblade etc without impacting the board. I looked for a better 5 drop that could also count for WW........Scion of Vitu-Ghazi.
Holy crap is this card good right now.
I know this has been mentioned as a sleeper on and off since it came out, but given the fact that this card is absolutely amazing against Mono B, I've seen it pop up a bit more in the GW VoR builds that are becoming more frequent, and the potential for a legitimate W devotion deck to pop up after Brimaz comes out, it might be worth looking into. Its .05 right now.
I'm going to run this in some DEs this week and see how it does. The list absolutely bricks Mono B hard, and is very good against UW, especially after you ditch the dead removal cards after SB.
I've been testing this list the past two days, and I am highly frigging impressed with it so far:
4x Precinct Captain
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Scion of Vitu-Ghazi
3x Heliod, God of the Sun
3x Purphoros, God of the Forge
3x Spear of Heliod
3x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4x Chained to the Rocks
4x Mizzium Mortars
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Temple of Triumph
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
8x Plains
4x Mountain
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
2x Warleader's Helix
2x Boros Charm
2x Keening Apparition
2x Glare of Heresy
3x Anger of the Gods
Brimaz is going to be nuts in this build after BNG as well.
Biggest problem with this deck so far is the manabase, but not sure how I can (or if I even should) tweak it to make it more stable. The deck doesn't necessarily need to drop a Reckoner on turn 3 though and has an incredible lategame, so its not the end of the world if you stumble T3 or 4.
A similar list running Archangel instead of Scion went 3-1 in a daily a few days ago, I think that Scion is way better here though. Archangel is win-more, whereas Scion can save your butt if you're behind, is phenomenal vs. Mono B, and is great with Purphoros. It does all of this even if it eats removal the turn it comes out.
I love standard because I can tweak or brew a deck meticulously to prepare against an established meta. The tweaks you make, the SB choices you make, are really what stands out. I feel that just copying a netdeck and a SB guide, you learn nothing. The worst players in MTG are generally strict constructed players probably for this reason. The best players I have ever met excel at limited as well as constructed.
I love drafting, because it encompasses all skills of MTG in one format. I am better at drafting, but I tend to play standard a bit more due to the better payouts. (I only play on MTGO).
The biggest thing the OP can learn if he wants to be competitive in standard, is not to latch onto a two color combination regardless of the meta, and hope cards get printed to make it good, or he can figure out how to tune it to make it good. The meta is what it is at a given time, and it fluctuates and changes as people respond to the top decks. Look at the top archetypes, and adopt, brew, or tweak a deck that preys on those decks. You need to be flexible in standard and in brewing in general, locking onto a color pair isn't flexible.
And can WE PLEASE stop giving cute titles to threads or decklists? I swear people spend more time thinking of a cute stupid name for their deck than they actually spend tuning it.
Its not that they're underpowered, its that many of the top decks right now are very synergistic, especially since devotion was introduced. Judge's familiar is crud in a vacuum, but in certain Mono U or Mono W builds, he can be exactly what is needed at the 1 slot. By the same token, Nightveil Specter is a solid card, but he isn't necessarily that efficient stats-wise for 3 cmc, and saw zero play before Theros.
Right now, you can't just jam every powerful card in a deck and win in standard, like last season with Jund.