Also got to playtest with an RIX-updated UG Merfolk list with that new 2-drop lord as well as Cocos after the event. I got rekt by all the unblockable fish.....
He talks about his thought process on cutting the cards that are just not viable without tron online (i.e. karns, ulamog, wurmcoil) in his dec 19 video. I also typed it out in my words here a couple of posts back. But yeah, it's basically because we shouldn't be playing around getting tron online. I see it more like a "bonus" situation we can get ourselves in. Like it's cool if we draw 2/3 of them at a time, then sure go fetch that third one with your map. Otherwise, going by his logic, I find myself fetching for the temples and a cavern (vs blue obv) most of the time. The deck has started to feel more consistent for me since.
When talking about the deck's hardest matchups, the default decks I think of are Titanshift, Gx Tron, and Ad Nauseam. I don't see how bolt or kozilek's return will help us against those decks. I haven't really had too much trouble with creature-based beatdown decks, which I'm assuming is what you meant. So, I don't think a red splash is necessary atm.
Thanks for the intell man. But it is still t1 here in the site. But is it really a t1 deck? Some pro’s find it just not consistent or good enough.. what it is with that?
Sam Pardee has been on the deck since it's peak back in the middle of the year and has since cut the Karns from the deck because of this exact consistency issue, I believe. His philosophy behind cutting them was because they were just not good enough without tron online, and the deck itself doesn't really need to get tron online ever contrary to what some people believe. I mean, sure it's great when you can get and/or keep it online, but I look at it as more of a "bonus" situation that the deck is capable of; not something you should be trying to get to all the time. Eldrazi Temples are still the highlight, and without the Karns, and the Wurmcoils, they get even better because now all your high-end cards all get to use the them as ancient tombs.
I find that the decks that try to win by playing "fair" are among the easier matchups i.e. Shadow, GBx decks, UWx decks, etc.
The worst ones imo would be Titanshift, Gx Tron, Ad Nauseam. These are the ones that would require a bit of luck along with good play.
Storm and Dredge, I find, are quite weird because they're super hard g1, but we attack their gameplan so much post-board that it gets significantly easier.
Affinity is pretty rough too but is really a toss up as you can also have draws that would just completely steal games against them.
P.S. a chalice for 2 vs Storm just wins you game 1 if you can resolve one early enough.
P.P.S. the mirror is really tough for my list as Karn's pretty much the best card in that matchup, but yeah. I'd still play the same list as it ends up being a "who has better draws" matchup anyway.
I haven't been on here much so I'm not familiar with how you guys are discussing the Karns and Ulamogs, but Sam Pardee's theory behind cutting them was because they were too hard to cast without Tron online, and though they can literally insta-win you games, I'd rather never have times where they're stuck in my hand. The 2 extra Endbringers function as big finishers in place of the Karns, making your Temples even better. The wurmcoil that people usually run in the SB got cut for a third hangarback bc of the same reason.
From my experience so far since cutting the Karns, I'd have to say I haven't really missed them at all yet.
Rd1 – Burn (1-2)
G1: He was on the play and had double guide. Kept a very mediocre hand where my curve was t2 mind stone, t3 reshaper with a mana up for dismember. lol.
SIDEBOARD: -2 dismember, -2 endbringer, +3 hangarback, +1 basilisk collar
G2: I had t2, TKS, t3 smasher.
G3: Had chalice for 1 on turn two, a blocker on turn 3 which got pathed, chalice for 2 on turn 4 but he drew the revelery to blow up the first chalice in response. Didn't draw another land even with a guide hitting me.
Rd2 – Burn (0-2)
G1: He was on the play, I died on turn 4
SIDEBOARD: -2 dismember, -2 endbringer, +3 hangarback, +1 basilisk collar
G2: I stabilized at 2 health, with chalice on 1 and 2, and lethal next turn. He drew a rift bolt =(
Rd3 – I ***** you not, Burn (2-0)
G1: Had t3 smasher, t4 smasher. Won the race.
SIDEBOARD: -2 dismember, -2 endbringer, +3 hangarback, +1 basilisk collar
G2: He had me down to 4 by the time I stabilized. Warping wail saved me from a rift bolt, 1:1ed a swiftspear with All is Dust.
Rd4 – Abzan (2-0)
G1: I was on the play. Hand had t2 chalice, t4 endbringer, he didn't have a liliana/pulse ready. Endbringer drew me a *****ton of cards.
SIDEBOARD: -4 chalice, -2 warping wail, -1 ballista, +3 hangarback, +3 relic, +1 ratchet bomb
G2: He had t1 thoughtseize which took my supposed t2 TKS. But he only had plains, and swamp. He had a t2 stony silence as well, but his third land came on t4 and note that it was a Temple Garden. Goyf came out at 2/3 which was eventually forced to trade with a reshaper. He fell too far behind and showed me his hand after the game. He kept it because it had 2 fulminators, the stony, and a t1 discard.
Rd5 – Grixis Shadow (2-0)
G1: I was on the play, and resolved a chalice on t2.
SIDEBOARD: -4 ballista, -2 warping wail, -1 endbringer, +3 relic, +3 hangarback, +1 ratchet bomb
G2: His t1 discard took my chalice, but I also had 2 temples which got me lucky enough to topdeck a t2 TKS in to a t3 smasher, t4 smasher.
Rd6 – Mono Red Prison (2-1)
G1: Kept a hand with turn 2 chalice, and nothing else but a t5 endbringer. I quickly regretted my keep after seeing him cast a chalice on t1 with a basic mountain and a spirit guide.... I ended up drawing 2 more chalices on my first 2 draw steps. Lost to koth mountains pretty quickly.
SIDEBOARD: -4 chalice, -2 dismember, -2 warping wail, +2 pithing needle, +3 hangarback, +2 ratchet bomb, +1 relic
G2: Had t2 reshaper, and topdecked a second temple for a t3 smasher, he died pretty fast.
G3: He had a t1 blood moon (which I don't get why people are so obsessed with casting against us btw.), and a t3 bridge. Drew a ratchet bomb to deal with both. Got him down to 9 before he drew a second bridge. Casted a ballista for 4, which I eventually pumped up to 9 without tron for the win.
Rd7 – Abzan (2-0)
G1: I was on the play, temple+map t1. He had t1 discard which took one of my 2 smashers, then a goyf on t2. My second smasher swung on t3, which he answered with a rhino. Had all is dust on my t5 though which pretty much just won me the game.
SIDEBOARD: -4 chalice, -2 warping wail, -1 ballista, +3 hangarback, +3 relic, +1 ratchet bomb
G2: His t1 discard took an all is dust. Had t3 tks take a lili, and t4 smasher. Very favourable matchup so not much to talk about.
I wasn't expecting to face GBx decks at all, but I guess I lucked out because I dodged a bunch of Titanshift guys and Gx Tron guys.
TL;DR: I still like the deck. Modern meta keeps changing so fast that people here just end up playing what they want to play, and I believe Eldrazi Tron has enough good matchups to be positioned well enough.
Not sure what you mean by that. I assume you mean "stacking" instead of attacking. But what really confuses me is the part where you say you can use KHE to "get to 6 mountains before the first valakut trigger resolves". If you don't have 6 mountains when the lands hit the battlefield, valakut doesn't trigger. So if you play a land and sac KHE to get to 6 lands, only the KHE fetched lands trigger, the previous ones never triggered.
This is false. Valakut triggers whenever a mountain enters the battlefield regardless of how many mountains you already have, THEN it checks if you have 5 other mountains.
Definitely Leyline and Moon. But they're also good vs Tron, Affinity, etc. In a sense that they're probably going to be better than the cards you're taking out for them in those matchups.
List is same as Pardee's -1 wail, +1 dismember in the SB
Rd1: vs Burn (2-0); -2 dismember, -1 endbringer, +2 hangarback, +1 collar
Rd2: vs GB midrange (2-1); -4 chalice, -2 wail, +2 hangarback, +3 relic, +1 dismember
Rd3: vs Storm (2-1); -2 ballista, -2 all is dust, -4 endbringer, +3 relic, +2 grafdigger's, +1 dismember, +2 ratchet
Rd4: vs Grixis Shadow (2-0); -4 ballista, -2 wail, +2 hangarback, +3 relic, +1 ratchet
Also got to playtest with an RIX-updated UG Merfolk list with that new 2-drop lord as well as Cocos after the event. I got rekt by all the unblockable fish.....
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-eldrazi-tron-26966#paper
TBH, I'd give it a try if our regional meta wasn't so burn-heavy.
4 matter reshaper
4 thought-knot seer
4 reality smasher
4 endbringer
4 chalice of the void
4 expedition map
2 mind stone
2 warping wail
2 dismember
2 all is dust
4 urza's power plant
4 urza's mine
4 eldrazi temple
3 ghost quarter
2 cavern of souls
1 sea gate wreckage
2 waste
3 relic of progenitus
2 grafdigger's cage
2 pithing needle
1 basilisk collar
2 ratchet bomb
1 warping wail
1 spatial contortion
3 hangarback walker
2-0 vs vizier coco. (-4 chalice, -2 mind stone, -3 smasher, +2 needle, +2 cage, +1 collar, +2 ratchet, +1 wail, +1 spatial)
2-1 vs 5c humans. (-4 chalice, -2 wail, -1 smasher, +1 collar, +2 ratchet, +1 spatial, +3 hangarback)
2-0 vs abzan. (-4 chalice, -2 wail, +3 hangarback, +2 relic, +1 ratchet)
2-1 vs grixis shadow. (-4 ballista, -2 wail, -1 endbringer, +3 relic, +3 hangarback, +1 ratchet)
still don't miss the karns/other biggies that pretty much require tron online to be viable. had tron online 4/10 games.
Sam Pardee has been on the deck since it's peak back in the middle of the year and has since cut the Karns from the deck because of this exact consistency issue, I believe. His philosophy behind cutting them was because they were just not good enough without tron online, and the deck itself doesn't really need to get tron online ever contrary to what some people believe. I mean, sure it's great when you can get and/or keep it online, but I look at it as more of a "bonus" situation that the deck is capable of; not something you should be trying to get to all the time. Eldrazi Temples are still the highlight, and without the Karns, and the Wurmcoils, they get even better because now all your high-end cards all get to use the them as ancient tombs.
The worst ones imo would be Titanshift, Gx Tron, Ad Nauseam. These are the ones that would require a bit of luck along with good play.
Storm and Dredge, I find, are quite weird because they're super hard g1, but we attack their gameplan so much post-board that it gets significantly easier.
Affinity is pretty rough too but is really a toss up as you can also have draws that would just completely steal games against them.
P.S. a chalice for 2 vs Storm just wins you game 1 if you can resolve one early enough.
P.P.S. the mirror is really tough for my list as Karn's pretty much the best card in that matchup, but yeah. I'd still play the same list as it ends up being a "who has better draws" matchup anyway.
List I played was pretty much the CFB list:
4 Walking Ballista
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endbringer
Non-creatures:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Expedition Map
2 Mind Stone
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
2 All is Dust
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Wastes
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Hangarback Walker
1 Basilisk Collar
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Gut Shot
I haven't been on here much so I'm not familiar with how you guys are discussing the Karns and Ulamogs, but Sam Pardee's theory behind cutting them was because they were too hard to cast without Tron online, and though they can literally insta-win you games, I'd rather never have times where they're stuck in my hand. The 2 extra Endbringers function as big finishers in place of the Karns, making your Temples even better. The wurmcoil that people usually run in the SB got cut for a third hangarback bc of the same reason.
From my experience so far since cutting the Karns, I'd have to say I haven't really missed them at all yet.
Rd1 – Burn (1-2)
G1: He was on the play and had double guide. Kept a very mediocre hand where my curve was t2 mind stone, t3 reshaper with a mana up for dismember. lol.
SIDEBOARD: -2 dismember, -2 endbringer, +3 hangarback, +1 basilisk collar
G2: I had t2, TKS, t3 smasher.
G3: Had chalice for 1 on turn two, a blocker on turn 3 which got pathed, chalice for 2 on turn 4 but he drew the revelery to blow up the first chalice in response. Didn't draw another land even with a guide hitting me.
Rd2 – Burn (0-2)
G1: He was on the play, I died on turn 4
SIDEBOARD: -2 dismember, -2 endbringer, +3 hangarback, +1 basilisk collar
G2: I stabilized at 2 health, with chalice on 1 and 2, and lethal next turn. He drew a rift bolt =(
Rd3 – I ***** you not, Burn (2-0)
G1: Had t3 smasher, t4 smasher. Won the race.
SIDEBOARD: -2 dismember, -2 endbringer, +3 hangarback, +1 basilisk collar
G2: He had me down to 4 by the time I stabilized. Warping wail saved me from a rift bolt, 1:1ed a swiftspear with All is Dust.
Rd4 – Abzan (2-0)
G1: I was on the play. Hand had t2 chalice, t4 endbringer, he didn't have a liliana/pulse ready. Endbringer drew me a *****ton of cards.
SIDEBOARD: -4 chalice, -2 warping wail, -1 ballista, +3 hangarback, +3 relic, +1 ratchet bomb
G2: He had t1 thoughtseize which took my supposed t2 TKS. But he only had plains, and swamp. He had a t2 stony silence as well, but his third land came on t4 and note that it was a Temple Garden. Goyf came out at 2/3 which was eventually forced to trade with a reshaper. He fell too far behind and showed me his hand after the game. He kept it because it had 2 fulminators, the stony, and a t1 discard.
Rd5 – Grixis Shadow (2-0)
G1: I was on the play, and resolved a chalice on t2.
SIDEBOARD: -4 ballista, -2 warping wail, -1 endbringer, +3 relic, +3 hangarback, +1 ratchet bomb
G2: His t1 discard took my chalice, but I also had 2 temples which got me lucky enough to topdeck a t2 TKS in to a t3 smasher, t4 smasher.
Rd6 – Mono Red Prison (2-1)
G1: Kept a hand with turn 2 chalice, and nothing else but a t5 endbringer. I quickly regretted my keep after seeing him cast a chalice on t1 with a basic mountain and a spirit guide.... I ended up drawing 2 more chalices on my first 2 draw steps. Lost to koth mountains pretty quickly.
SIDEBOARD: -4 chalice, -2 dismember, -2 warping wail, +2 pithing needle, +3 hangarback, +2 ratchet bomb, +1 relic
G2: Had t2 reshaper, and topdecked a second temple for a t3 smasher, he died pretty fast.
G3: He had a t1 blood moon (which I don't get why people are so obsessed with casting against us btw.), and a t3 bridge. Drew a ratchet bomb to deal with both. Got him down to 9 before he drew a second bridge. Casted a ballista for 4, which I eventually pumped up to 9 without tron for the win.
Rd7 – Abzan (2-0)
G1: I was on the play, temple+map t1. He had t1 discard which took one of my 2 smashers, then a goyf on t2. My second smasher swung on t3, which he answered with a rhino. Had all is dust on my t5 though which pretty much just won me the game.
SIDEBOARD: -4 chalice, -2 warping wail, -1 ballista, +3 hangarback, +3 relic, +1 ratchet bomb
G2: His t1 discard took an all is dust. Had t3 tks take a lili, and t4 smasher. Very favourable matchup so not much to talk about.
I wasn't expecting to face GBx decks at all, but I guess I lucked out because I dodged a bunch of Titanshift guys and Gx Tron guys.
TL;DR: I still like the deck. Modern meta keeps changing so fast that people here just end up playing what they want to play, and I believe Eldrazi Tron has enough good matchups to be positioned well enough.
Rd1 vs Lantern Control 1-1
Rd2 vs Eldrazi Tron 2-0
Rd3 vs Burn 2-1
Rd4 vs Sun and Moon 2-1
My current list is the standard one with 4 bolt 2 anger main.
SB looks like this:
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Obstinate Baloth
2 Thragtusk
3 Sudden Shock
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Anger of the Gods
Rd1 vs Tron 2-0
Rd2 vs UW Hatebears 0-2
Rd3 vs Jund 2-0
Rd4 vs Revolt Zoo (Naya colors) 2-1
Still very unsure of the -1 Bolt, +1 Beast Within main.
Rd1 vs Jund 2-0
Rd2 vs Sun and Moon 1-2
Rd3 vs Gr Tron 2-0
Rd4 vs Bant Eldrazi 2-1
Considering switching out the 4th Bolt for a Beast Within to work as kind of a catch-all and (very rarely) a surprise blocker.
This is false. Valakut triggers whenever a mountain enters the battlefield regardless of how many mountains you already have, THEN it checks if you have 5 other mountains.